ravanvajahan.com

Good

Thank you, Arj.  Now that that is said and you have it off your chest, let's get on with our lives, shall we?

Everyone should remember that Trolls from Planet Iran are Sheytaan's Gift to Qom Inc.  

Don't feed the trolls!

Shun them until they get their act together and get with the National Program :

Liberate Iran and Iranians from the yoke of divisive history, regressive thought, and satanic tyrants.

& Salaam.

Past or future

It's true that whatever has happenend in the past can not be changed, but what we get to learn (if anything ever!) from it is a clear indication of how we tend to see the future! No one is making an emamzadeh out of Mossadegh or a demon out of Shah (with the exception of IRI propagandists) , but there are those (who are best described as Shahollahi!) who try to make a demon out of Mossadegh and a god out of Shah -- hence the term Shahollahi!

Mossadegh is not respected by Iranians for his ancestry or even necessarily for being a leader, but as a human (who was not exempt from making mistakes, and far from perfect) and one of people's own who despite his position, had enough respect for their opinions to seek his mandate through a referandum! Nonetheless, what made Mossadegh a national hero was the fact that he stood up for his people against one of the biggest powers of his time (Brits) without any army and/or even firing a shot, but by prepondrance of merit and resolve, defeating the old rotten colonialists and teach them a lesson to remember, when they took our nation to International court over the nationalization of oil!

Shah on the on the other hand, was propped and brough to power by the British (just like his father), fled everytime things got tough, and was reinstalled by the Brits and Yanks! Moreover, instead of respecting people and observing the consititution, he decided to make a mockery of it and treat people like cattle by inventing his Rastakhiz system and personally micro-managing the national affairs! Yet, he was eventuallyl betrayed by his masters at his weakest moment when they decided to give Islamism a shot!

What's ironic is that everytime anyone dares to mention the failures and crimes of the Pahlavi era, he/she becomes the target of a barrage of attacks and insults by the Shaban Bimokhs and Shaollahis who categorically deny any wrong-doings by HIM, the shadow of god, "ariamehr!" If anyone, it's the Shahollahis and supporrters of Pahlavis who are turning their idols (Reza Shah, Shah and RP) into saints and dieties! Indeed, what these folks find as an ideal form of governance has failed and been rejected by both the people and its foreign supporters!  

Arj and free nutrition

".. there were schools in provinces and small towns that handed out squares of Barbari bread and 4 dry dates -" Arj

That is great you realize that our shah was feeding kids in school the same way their biological fathers were feeding them. I am just curious why you never write anything in that regard? it is nice to mention it in your future comment that kids were receiving free nutrition.

Now, you can pass this information to your relatives who are Iranian new generation. If I am not mistaking you said your relatives are ages from 16 to 28. Let them know when we restore monarchy and crown Reza Pahlavi take the office they same program is going to be in order for their children.

I read what anglephilia quoted from you about Georgio Armani. Seems you were not quite honest in your comment when you said you don't have knowledge of fashion. That is okay to lie sometimes. 

No, dear Arj, I don't believe Jimmy Carter created so called "revolution" . The "khaens" whom you see some of them on this blog and their comrades from Tudeh, mojahedin, fadaeyan and offspring of Qajar dynasty such as mosaddeq created revolution by provoking people against shah. It is the time this crowd come forward and applogize to our people, specifically they have to applogize to Pahlavi's family for being traitors of Iran and Pahlavi dynasty.

Siavash

                       GOAL : RESTORING MONARCHY

To Whom It May Concern:

As I have written in my comments on this site, a lot of what is said against the opposition forces is produced by the propaganda apparatus of the regime in Tehran. Unfortunately, many among the opposition forces repeat what the regime feeds them for so long that at some point start believing they actually came up with the ideas themselves. 

I am surprised and disappointed to see the infantile name-calling that is going on here on this site or elsewhere. I see more enmity among the opposition forces towards each other than I see towards the regime of IR. This has to end. What is most disappointing is some of the seemingly more intelligent people getting involved in this name-calling. 

I wrote down below:

"Why such debates now? Except for the enemies of Iran and Iranians, who is gaining from such "blood feuds?" If this issue hasn't been solved for the past six decades, it'll never be solved by you. It seems neither side has any trust in Iranians. It wouldn't be surprising if future generations found this charade as farcical as it is when they think about Iran and how it was offered to a bunch of murderous mullahs on a silver platter!"

I also wrote:

"Sohrab_Ferdows has said many wise things on this site. I wish many others would follow suit and put an end to these ongoing useless efforts to prove the "other side" wrong!"

And under another blog I called it, a "shoot-out" involving "Mossadeghollahis" and "Shahollahis." 

I'd be glad to read both sides of the debate, but not when it gets so childish!

Dear MM & Anglo

Thank you for your kind words. A slightly different view is that progress will happen. It just won't have many of the old groups in it. For sure some will be there but not all. Because they are not willing to.

The danger is that people waste too much time debating these guys. Then instead of making progress we spin our wheels. An ongoing debate is great. But expecting all to wait until the last person is satisfied is impractical. 

It is like wanting to go somewhere. We might as well get started then do the remaining discussion in the car. Or we are going to be in the driveway arguing for good. 

VPK - your last comment summarizes Iranian politics

That is, it is all about pissing  contest (your way is bad) and spitting contest (my way is good). As long as we have this advesarial / exclusionary attitude, IRI should have no fear of the opposition. As Mehrdad says, hambastegi is the key.

There you go again

Re. Nasser, I merely pointed you the outcome of his efforts. Point out where I questioned his "independence".

Re. Sadat: I noted you passed that point by.  +1 for me, then ;)

Re. Mubarak: What exactly did he *accomplish* for Egypt?

"savage power-hungry nature of Mohammad Reza Pahlav"

If someone were to run a NL classifier on IC.com archive, it would not surprise me in the least bit if your posts bubble to the surface as the top ranking hyperbolic writer.  

The fact that yours is a divisive voice would be a bit harder perhaps for a machine to determine, but it is perfectly clear to this casual reader of IC (over the past few years.)  Stuck in the 19th century and Planet Iran.

Iran and Iranians of 21st century are forward looking.  Let's just hope you do not infect more people with your contentious "nature".

Dear VPK

More wisdom

Here are typical responses from the "Democracy" movements! Run out of arguments they use things like these:

• Water boy
• Nokar
• Traitor

Then showing more desperation falsely claim I don't know Persian.

One thing I learned is not to bother with these groups. The same people from 30 years ago saying the same things are before. When you live your whole life on hate it permeates your soul. You need to be really strong to purge it. I don't see that happening with many members of these groups. I suggest we don't hold up the train for them. Progress must go on with or without any person.

Repetitive

I read the same repetitive stuff by some. It is obvious they are only interested in proving others wrong. Not in a discussion or learning anything. All the "arguments" are to "prove" others are wrong and they are right.

This is a waste of time. Any reasonable person should know they are not always right. Therefore need to have an open mind and be willing to listen to others. But we got a group of people who have never admitted a mistake.

Wow, they must have divine wisdom or inability to admit mistakes. Stuck in the past just repeating the same thing over. Well I tell you this is never going to go anywhere. More insults and pouring hate while never offering anything.

Waterboys should stick to their job & just fetch water for Gents

When Kazemzadeh becomes abusive - LOL

Dear Masoud,

Re: Nasser's reported use of chemical weapons in Yemen:

//www.nti.org/country-profiles/egypt/ 

//english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/07/30/1...

//books.google.com/books?id=7MJe1wUCCo0C&pg=PA190&lpg=PA190&dq=nasser+and+%22chemical+weapons%22+and+yemen&source=bl&ots=tyheSS7j15&sig=aM0_4a-D-Kawy6c3NW4EtdPNLyE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ICsMT-f1LIqFsgKCwpnzBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CDYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=nasser%20and%20%22chemical%20weapons%22%20and%20yemen&f=false 

Quote of the day:" I am not a fashion expert - Arj"!!

Proving Khashmgin is Wrong

Khamshmgin,

You failed in your argument.

Part 1: Forces from DIVERGENT groups make alliances for a purpose. In 1978, the goal was to overthrow the nokar, tyrannical Pahlavi regime. Therefore, Dr. Sanjabi meeting with Khomeini and agreeing on a platform which included the 3 elements was not being anyone’s nokar. The 3 point declaration did NOT make Khomeini a nokar of Dr. Sanjabi, not the reverse.

The First point declares that the Shah’s regime, due to persistent violations of the constitution and committing oppression and repression, and spreading corruption, and being subservient to foreign powers lacks legal and religious base (or legitimacy).

The second point declares that the nationalist and the Islamic movements of Iran, oppose any government as long as the illegal monarchic system remains.

The Third point states that the nationalist government of Iran should be based on Islam, and Democracy, and Independence, and be determined by VOTES of the people.

Now, tell the readers what in the world is wrong with these in October 1978????????

This is at the era when the Shah was publically stating to the word that he was meeting the 12th Imam and getting messages from him and that the 12th Imam has intervened and saved his life many many times!!!!!!!! The 1906 Constitution and the 1907 Motamam, included numerous Islamic, and indeed, 12th Imami Shia features, including stating that the King, the Prime Minster have to be a 12 Imami Shia Muslims. The 2nd Amendment to the 1907 Additions stated that there should be a council of 5 Mojtaheds that would vet all the laws passed by majles to make sure they are not against Shariah laws (which was never convened).

In sum, your attempt to prove that Dr. Sanjabi was nokar is proven to be 100% false.

:-)

Part 2: Photo of Dr. Sanjabi with many members of the Provisional Government meeting Yasser Arafat.

Thanks for the laugh. Now this is a photo of President Bill Clinton, Israeli PM Rabin, and Arafat.

//blogs.reuters.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/Rabin,%20Clinton,%20Arafat.jpg

According to YOUR weird logic, this means that President Clinton is nokar of Arafat!!!!! or that Israeli PM Rabin is a nokar of Arafat!

Do YOU realize the utter lack of logic in your "argument"???????!!!

There are also photos of Arafat with Ehud barak.  And the photo of Arafat's wife kissing Hillary Clinton.

Part 3: The 1979 was a broad based coalition of many forces that fought against the Shah’s nokar regime. Each group had its own particular goals, ideologies, policies. Initially, JM had the leadership (between June 1977 and early 1978). As the Shah kept mass murdering the unarmed people, the people became increasingly radicalized. Between early 1978 and September 1978, the democratic forces and the Khomeini forces both had a lot of support, our was declining while Khomeini’s followers was increasing. The leftists and the PMOI were also getting bigger and bigger. After the Back Friday, Khomeini’s forces had the majority support on the streets.

In Feb 1979, the opposition forces succeeded and the monarchy collapsed. Khomeini had the majority support at this time. Bazargan became PM and Dr. Sanjabi became Foreign Minister. And after less than 2 months, Dr. Sanjabi resigned because he opposed Khomeini’s supporters such as Khalkhali violating the human rights of the monarchists and others and executed them.

This actually PROVES that Dr. Sanjabi was NOT nokar of Bazargan. They were allies. When things did not turn the way Dr. Sanjabi wanted, he RESIGNED. Helooooooooo.

Now, if you and monarchists had any decency, you would PUBLICALLY THANK Dr. Sanjabi and JM who stood up for the human rights of the savage monarchists who were being executed under unfair conditions. Do YOU see the irony???? The savage fascist monarchists had executed our members, and we defended the human rights and due process rights of the same savage monarchists.

The monarchists were dictatorial. They remain dictatorial. They tortured, and murdered Iran’s democrats in order to remain in power.

Compare this with Dr. Sanjabi. He RESIGNED because he opposed the lack of due process in the revolutionary courts and the violations of human rights of the monarchists (many of who were GUILTY of mass murder, mass torture, and other crimes against the Iranian people).

The same with Bazargan. Mr. Bazargan resigned when supporters of Khomeini took the Americans hostage. Therefore, Bazargan was NOT nokar of Khomeini.

Part 4: In this, there is an interview with Dr. Sanjabi and he shares his opinions of what he believes the content of the Islamic Republic will be. Dr. Sanjabi says that because the majority of the Iranian people are Muslim, that would influence the system. He says the Islamic content is justice, cooperation, equality, unity.

Nothing in the article indicates that Dr. Sanjabi is nokar of anyone. One may agree or disagree with Dr. Sanjabi. Dr. Sanjabi may be right or wrong. But NOTHING in the article has one iota of evidence that the poor guys is nokar of anyone. Now, with the experience of the Islamic Republic, most of us are strongly opposed to any mixing of religion and the state. But in 1978, the Shah was mixing his weird Islam with his rule. So, it was rather common to have a positive view of Islam’s benign influence.

And finally, #5.

Dr. Sanjabi makes some positive remarks about Khomeini. To our ears of 2012, these words are bad. I certainly condemn them. But in 1978, American Ambassador to the UN, Mr. Andrew Young was calling Khomeini, "Gandhi." The people were seeing Khomeini’s face on the moon. The environment in the 1970s Iran was actually a zillion times worse with people saying garbage a zillion times worse for the fascist Shah. That the Shah is "sayeh Khoda" [the shah is shadow of God]!!!!!!!!

Both Khomeini and the Shah were despicable persons. All decent people had to condemn BOTH the Shah and Khomeini.

At that time, Dr. Sanjani did not know the reality of Khomeini. Like others he became "jav gir" and said wrong things about Khomeini.

However, and this is the significant point: very soon as Khomeini began to do bad stuff, Dr. Sanjabi and JM were among the very first and the bravest forces who publically stood up to Khomeini and condemned him.

Examples:

JM was the SOLE political party that CONDEMNED Khomeini’s call for the dismissal of all female judges. No other party in April 1979 had the guts to stand up to Khomeini. JM and sanjabi were the only ones. ONLY Sanjabi and Bazargan stood up to Khomeini and Khalkhali making the executions. Due to their efforts the executions stopped at around 500. In August 1979, JM was among a handful of parties that opposed the closing of Ayandegan paper. In summer of 1979, JM opposed and condemned the vf feature of the constitution. In November 1979, JM publically opposed and condemned the taking of American hostage. In December 1979, JM opposed the ratification of the vf constitution and called for rallies against it. And later JM publically opposed the Ghanon Qesas as reactionary.

In conclusion, Khashmgin1, totally failed in his/her attempts to prove that Dr. Sanjabi was nokar.

What I wrote that Mohammad Reza Pahlavi was nokar is 100% true. What khashmgin wrote is 100% false.

Best,

Masoud

P.S. Monarchists of 2012 are unrepentant and much much more dictatorial than the monarchists of 1979. They have NOT condemned their dictatorial past. They say the Shah should have killed MORE people.

Dear Amir, Good we agree

Dear Amir,

Good we agree that the Shah was a zillion times worse than Mobarak. I did not know that Nasser had used chemical weapons on the people of Yemen. Could you please provide some references. Thanks.

Best,

Masoud

====================

Dear Sohrab,

We had this discussion when I first posted the seminal article by Dr. Habib Ladjebardi. We both hold the opinion that the primary enemies are the vf regime and NIAC. I wrote that when Dr. Ladjevardi joined NIAC, I was very very sad. I had his name as one of the referees for my forthcoming book manuscript, and took his name OUT from the list, because of his affiliation with NIAC.

I had explained to you how scholarly articles get accepted by scholarly journals. We all may have our own opinions, views, ideologies and the like. For scholarly journals, the article should have reliable sources and make logical inferences. The articles go through several peer review processes. First, the editor has to ok it. Second, they sent the article to several other scholars who read ti carefully and examine it. Third, after publication, other scholars read it and if they find anything fishy, they will publish their criticism of the sources or arguments.

Dr. Ladjevardi’s article has passed ALL these, period. YOU do not like it because the sources and the logical inferences contradict your biases and political affiliation.

Best,

Masoud

==========================

ROOG: I belive also that Masoud is very knowledgable and intelligent. But I am not sure were the emotions are coming from and what their purpose is.

MK:

Dear ROOG,

My emotions comes from my strong OPPOSITION to dictatorship and tyranny, and my LOVE for freedom and democracy. The purpose is to teach the lunatic fascist monarchists a good lesson. When these savages attack the pro-democracy forces, we have to respond so that they learn their lesson. As long any group in the opposition does not attack and harm the pro-democracy forces, we leave them alone. But if these morons attack us, we will retaliate. We will use evidence, and logic to show their bankrupt politics.

ROOG: And yet JM while avoiding the last 2 froms a coalition with the first group? ie The United Republicans of Iran with mostly communist parties?

MK: I have already discussed the issue of coalitions. We in INF-OA have been working of bringing other pro-democracy parties together. They include NAMIR, Hezb Mellat Iran, Liberal Party of Iran and the like. JM inside also has good relations with Melli-Mazhabis, Nehzat Azadi, and Daftar Tahkim Vahdat.

The second group we have been working are other republican forces. The leftist parties and groups are in this category.

One makes relations and coalitions with those who are NOT exactly like us. But they meet the MINIMUM demands. As long as they say that they support a constitution for democratic secular republic, then we could talk with them and see where it goes.

If a group supports a dictatorial institution for the post-fundamentalist Iran, then we tend to NOT want to have a relationship with or coalition with them. Therefore, if a group says that they Velayat Faghih, such as the reformists factions of the vf regime, then we could not make any long term alliance with them. Why? Because the institution of Velayat Faghih is an anti-democratic institution.

Same with monarchy. The institution of monarchy is an anti-democratic institution. The king is not voted on by the people in period elections. A country that has monarch is a democracy (e.g., UK, Sweden, Norway) is democratic despite the institution of monarchy. The monarch has no real powers and is there as the remnant of an old system. Moreover, the people trust the monarch because it has been with them for so long and has not harmed them.

This is simply not the case with the Pahlavis and RP.

1. If our monarchists want RP to have any real power, then they are supporting a dictatorship. If our monarchists do not RP to have any power, then why the hell put an anti-democratic entity in our future constitution. If there are some who like RP to be THEIR, king, then they can go there then and/or now and bend over and kiss his hands, or feet, or whatever else they want to kiss. But why impose their anti-democratic entity on the rest of the population.

2. The Pahlavi dynasty has a horrible reputation. They were savage tyrants, who executed, tortured, and raped so many people. There was no freedom of expression, of the press, of political parties, of elections. And as the evidence clearly proves they were nokar of foreign powers.

3. The overwhelming majority of our monarchists REMAIN terribly dictatorial and unrepentant. The overwhelming majority of the monarchists do not say that they made the mistakes of having too much dictatorship and repression. They say that the Shah did not kill enough people!!!!!!! The Shah did not imprison enough people!!!!! So, the monarchists of 2012 are more tyrannical than the monarchists of 1979!!!!!!

4. Reza Pahlavi has not apologized for the crimes that his father committed against the Iranian people. RP has not apologized for the shameful coup of 1953!!!!!! RP has not apologized to the Iranian people for the crimes of his father for the executions (e.g., Dr. Fatemi), the torture and burning alive of Karimpour Shirazi, the murder of Gen. Afshartoos, the murder of col. Sakhaee, and soooooooooooo many other crimes against the Iranian people. RP has not condemned the atrocities, repression, and brutal savage tyrannies of his father and grandfather.

5. Iran needs to move FORWARD. The Pahlavi monarchy is a reactionary, illegitimate, system. We want a system that is democratic, which means periodic elections for all major positions of power. The Pahlavi dynasty is part of the colonial shameful past. In our march forward, we need to have modern, democratic institution such as presidency elected freely, democratically and periodically. Therefore, the anti-democratic institution of monarchy has no place in the democratic future of Iran.

6. On practical grounds. When I watch Reza Pahalvi, he reminds me of Khomeini in Paris. Out of power, Khomeini talked about democracy and freedom while hiding his intention of wanting to impose his own rule. The same with Reza Pahlavi. It appears to me that he is lying about democracy, freedom, and human rights. If he were sincere about supporting democracy and human rights, Reza Pahlavi should first and foremost condemn the dictatorships and gross human rights violations committed by his father.

7. The monarchists constitute a small (but loud) minority of the population. My estimate is that monarchists are about 5-10 percent of the population. The only way, RP could be king is for him to savagely mass murder the Iranian people.

8. All indications are the majority or plurality of the Iranian people want a secular democratic republic. In the famous poll of students at Amir Kabir University conducted by Dafdar Tahkim Vahdat, the hard-liners got 6%, reformists got 4%, the monarchists got 5%. And those supporting secular democratic republic got 85% of support among the students there. Or during the protest in 2009-2010, among the major slogans were: "esteghlal, azadi, jomhuri IRANI." and "Naa Sharghi, Naa Gharbi, JOMHURI Irani."

9. In conclusion, RP and monarchists have NO real chance of ever coming to power in Iran. However, they can cause harm to the pro-democracy movement by taking away resources. They attack the democratic forces, and we have to spend our valuable time to counter them. Their only role is to spoil the situation for the pro-democracy forces.

Best,

Masoud

=======================　

Joubin,

It is not speculation, rather it is a FACT that Col. Nasser and Free Officers made the coup in 1952 against the puppet king in Egypt who was a puppet of the U.K. In 1956, UK along with France and Israel invaded Egypt to overthrow Nasser. They did not succeed. Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal from the British and French companies. King Farouk was a nokar just like Mohammad Reza Pahlavi.

It is also a FACT that Mubarak only killed a few people and after a few weeks agreed to leave power. It is a FACT that the Shah decided to mass murder the unarmed Iranian people from June 1977 until the time the armed forces collapsed. Mubarak had the decency to leave power. The Shah did NOT abdicate. The fascist dude, only left for a VACATION!!!!!! In other words, the Shah STILL wanted to come back and mass murder more and more Iranian people. And to top it, his son, STILL wants to become KING!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is no comparison between the decency of Mubarak and the savage power-hungry nature of Mohammad Reza Pahlavi.

MK

One more note Kazmezdeh

NOTE: I made the nokar comments about Sanjabi only to make a few points sink in your head. I've got no beef against a man from 30 years ago. Here are those points:

In my view, the Monarchy at least has evolved in Reza Pahlavi. He is quite a different man that his father was.

What about Jebheye Melli? Has the new generation of JM changed? Or are they still sacrificing Iran's interests in favor of satisfying their hatreds? Kazmezadeh and his views are a better answer than any I could give.

Jebheye Melli betrayed Iran once. They had a chance to undo the damage they had caused 30 years ago, by changing their ways and methods. But no. they are still the same old Jebheye Nefrat.

In a true democracy, people from opposing view have to WORK TOGETHER to govern a country. This can never be realized when one side call the other side traitor or nokar and so on.

I don't see RP calling Jebehey Melli or Sanjabi traitor/nokar/etc, do you? Monarchy has evolved somewhat in the past 30 years, but sadly not Jebheye Melli, which doesn't even know the ABCs of democracy, yet.

Oh, did I tell you that I prefer a republic over monarchy? But that I had also finally come to accept monarchists as my fellow counrtymen and that in a future democracy, I'll have to WORK TOGETHER with them (and also work with communists whose views I also oppose, and many other groups I may not like) in order to first save Iran and then govern it in a democratic way?

I find nothing wrong in opposing a group, nor to giving them credit when due and be willing to work with them too. That is called democracy.

Currently, the road to freedom and democracy is as tough as it could be for Iran. People like you, by pouring benzine on fire and opening old wounds, only makes it more difficult for the rest of us who want to create a union.

Shame on you who seem to be unable to evolve.

The only way for a true union and for a true democracy is to weed out folks like you kazemzadeh, and folks like the shaholahis and other useful idiots who just can''t get it, and in the process, sabotage the fine work of others who try to establish that union and a future democracy.

And yes, there is nothing wrong about critisizing the Shah or Mosadegh. But everything had its place and time. For example, I believe now is not the time to critisize Israel and divert attention to Palestinians cause, which the IRI does all the time.

In the same way, I believe that now is not the time to fight other members of the secular opposition. We must first liberate Iran, then after victory, you could critique Israel as much as you want, Same thing applies to you kazemzadeh and your hatreds and its consequences of diverting attention away from more pressing matters.

Your message is one of hatred and grudge and accusations. What Iran needs today is messages of peace, working together and healing the past's wounds.

Something you are incapable to comprehend, as are your brethens, the shaholahis are. Yes, you read that right. I am putting you in the same category than shaholahis and mojahedins. For all practical purposes, you are all made of the same fabric.

kazemzadeh

It is easy to call someone NOKAR, isn't it? Iran before the Pahlavis was a backwarded country which had only a 0.1 percent population who could read and write, and which had lamb's hoof (some boz) as one of its main exports. The Pahlavis took such a country and rebuilt its education and industrial infrastructure as rapidly as it could be possible.

In both the 1960s and 1970s, Iran was always one step ahead of South Korea, including in its "montage" automobile industries.

Where is South Korea now? Where would Iran be today had the Pahlavis continued on for another 33 years? Certainly ahead of South Korea.

Would that be a bad thing Mr. Kazemzadeh? 

I'll take that nokar anytime of the day over you or nokar's such as Sanjabi.

Jebheye Melli is NOKAR (part 5)

Karim Sanjabi was the Chief leader of Jebheye Melli in 1357 and a strict follower of "raahe "mosadegh".  

Sanjabi dar madhe va tamjide Khomeini:

//www.google.com/imgres?q=sanjabi+arafat&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1280&bih=647&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=c4KheJtQGBVQvM:&imgrefurl=//pan-iranist.net/1386/11/17/121/&docid=VrPbT_apWr4g6M&imgurl=//paniran.persiangig.ir/image/bahman57/sanjabi.jpg&w=280&h=252&ei=L94LT-iaAYLEgAfAndiwBw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=0&sig=107108960283665506623&page=1&tbnh=142&tbnw=157&start=0&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:14,s:0&tx=77&ty=39

Jebheye Melli is NOKAR (part 4)

Karim Sanjabi was the Chief leader of Jebheye Melli in 1357 and a strict follower of "raahe "mosadegh".  

Sanjabi and his pro IRI stand:

//www.google.com/imgres?q=sanjabi+khomeini&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1280&bih=647&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsb&tbnid=J5QF3ILpkUQw5M:&imgrefurl=//sarashams.blogspot.com/&docid=KW-ABJ2f9xjC7M&imgurl=//4.bp.blogspot.com/-r2IzejGQrcU/Twc-YG4jkhI/AAAAAAAAAv8/BP4Z4L3liEc/s1600/khomeini%252Bva%252Bsanjabi.jpg&w=392&h=499&ei=V9wLT7GSAdLuggf2xMWxBw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=16&sig=107108960283665506623&page=3&tbnh=132&tbnw=104&start=37&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:37&tx=59&ty=45 

Jebheye Melli is NOKAR (part 3)

Karim Sanjabi was the Chief leader of Jebheye Melli in 1357 and a strict follower of "raahe "mosadegh".  

Bazargan, Sanjabi's boss. And Khomeini, Bazagran's boss:

//www.google.com/imgres?q=sanjabi+khomeini&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1280&bih=647&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsb&tbnid=vxKF-FH3lMn-1M:&imgrefurl=//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehdi_Bazargan&docid=OkffzQRlUyGzzM&imgurl=//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/51/Ruhollah_Khomeini_and_Mehdi_Bazargan.jpg/220px-Ruhollah_Khomeini_and_Mehdi_Bazargan.jpg&w=220&h=148&ei=V9wLT7GSAdLuggf2xMWxBw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=375&sig=107108960283665506623&page=2&tbnh=118&tbnw=158&start=18&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:18,s:18&tx=95&ty=60

Jebheye Melli is NOKAR (part 2)

Karim Sanjabi was the Chief leader of Jebheye Melli in 1357 and a strict follower of "raahe "mosadegh".

Karim Sanjabi, Jebheye Melli leader, all smile with Arafat:

//www.google.com/imgres?q=sanjabi+arafat&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1280&bih=647&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=gQ7MVcMxxKNLyM:&imgrefurl=//iranpoliticsclub.net/photos/arafat-IRI/index.htm&docid=-cPAU0euQTs-BM&imgurl=//iranpoliticsclub.net/photos/arafat-IRI/images/Forouhar,%252520Sanjabi,%252520Bazargan%252520%2526%252520Arafat%252520Iran.jpg&w=577&h=324&ei=L94LT-iaAYLEgAfAndiwBw&zoom=1

Jebheye Melli is NOKAR (part 1)

Karim Sanjabi was the Chief leader of Jebheye Melli in 1357 and a strict follower of "raahe "mosadegh".

Karim Sanjabi's three point declaration early after the revolution:

//impact.users.netlink.co.uk/namir/sanjabi.htm

> the triangle milk packs

> the triangle milk packs that tasted like anything but milk!

Thank you for the memories, Arj!  I can taste that funny milk right now.   

> Though most kids at school used to smash the biscuits and throw them at each other while stomped on the milk packs and made squirt guns out of them!

Remember that, too.  (I will resist the urge to point out an observation here .. ;)

> [the conspiracy theory]

If you recall, the hostilities had begun way before '78. Nothing official, but all the front organizations were beginning the demonization process. I believe we have now seen this process repeated sufficiently in context of other "troublesome" regimes to see how it would have turned out. 

That war would have never happened if the Artesh had remained intact and its officer corp had not been decimated.  Shah was arming Iran for a reason.  His foreign policy approach to USSR and PRC were also part and parcel of his strategic defense for Iran.  What he never expected was for Iranians to do the job of the foreign powers.  Live and learn.

It matters not if some nations would no longer maintain diplomatic relations with Iran.  What would certainly not had happened is the ridicule heaped on Iran and Iranians over the past 30+ years.  This interim period has effectively erased the collective memory of the West regarding the conditions of Iran before 1980.  

Just the other day some well meaning American posted a picture of a Ski lift saying "look!  they have ski lifts!!  They have highways!!!  Look at that [ugly] telecommunication tower!!!! We can't bomb them, they are not cave dwellers.  They are actually civilized." ... 

Alas. 

Re explaining "khaen"

Dear Siavash, I'm not intending to drag an endless discussion to eternity, but to answer your questions:

1. I did not eat the food they handed out for I used to have breakfast and take lunch breaks at home. Moreover, I didn't like the cheap Petit Bure tea biscuits that caused serious choking and the triangle milk packs that tasted like anything but milk! Though most kids at school used to smash the biscuits and throw them at each other while stomped on the milk packs and made squirt guns out of them! However, there were schools in provinces and small towns that handed out squares of Barbari bread and 4 dry dates -- I believe, as my father called it Shah's way of bribing the education system officials, the funds used to be funneled through the bureaucratic system before they (what was left of them) ended up at schools! In some instances, some of the fruits would end up in the principals' home and the rest on fruit stands!

2. I'm not a fashion expert, hence can't comment!

3 & 4. I'm not sure if you're one of them, but most Pahlavi supporters believe that the downfall of Shah was due to a conspiracy by the U.S. (Carter in particular), Brits and the rest of the Western powers because he stood up to them! In that case, even if the "khaens" did not revolt against Shah, the U.S. (Carter that is), Brits and the rest of the West would still be hostile to Shah (bassed on that premise)! Then how could Iranians still expect the world powers to respect Iranian passports when they were hostile to Iran and Iranians if things went on as they were?! Same goes with regards to the possibility of war -- especially since Saudis were in bed with Americans to undermine Shah's attempts at increasing, or at least stabilizing the price of oil?!

Zillion

"Mobarak is a zillion times better than the Shah, or more accurately, the Shah is a zillion times worse than Mobarak. I can give you many examples."

Actually MK, given your excessive hyperbole, it would be fair to hold you to precisely "zillion" examples.  (Your "what if" scenarios are not "examples".  Speculation is not fact.  Facts, please.  A zillion of them, if you can muster it.)

Thank you. 

p.s. 

"Two, Mobarak and the regime of "Free Officers" (Nasser, Sadat, Mobarak) came to power independently and were independent. "

Naser: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasser#Resignation_and_aftermath 

Anwar Sadat had very high regards for Shanshah, as he recognized a fellow nationalist.  

Mubarak "independent"?  Is that why he is in a cage right now?  As appreciation of the Egyptians for his independence? 

History lesson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVH7JO8x3Vg

Masoud : "If a labor union

Masoud : "If a labor union is part of the state (in the former USSR or Mexico under PRI, or the yellow unions under the Shah or vf regime) then these unions are not part of the civil society."

And yet JM while avoiding the last 2 froms a coalition with the first group? ie The United Republicans of Iran with mostly communist parties? 

Explaining "khaen" for Arj.

"I was 11 when I went back to school under IRI," Arj

Dear Arj,

   Let's start from you in explaining meaning of Khaen.

1. You were 11 when Islamic criminals took power in Iran, That means you enjoyed "Free Nutrition" program that shah mandated in schools. How was it ? How did you like free food Arj? So shah fed you as your biological father fed you. Have I ever seen any places in your comments you mention anything about that historical fact? I don't think you ever mentioned it. That could have 2 reasons. A. Either you forgot to mention it which is quite all right. B. You may deliberately didn't want to mention it. In the B. scenario, you consider as a "Khaen". Enjoy the previlige and hold that information make the person Khaen.

2. Unlike these days, that our women with scarf on their head appear as a maid or house keepers, during shah's days our women were competing with lastest fashion models in Europe and U.S. So what happened? who made that transformation? Those people who made that transformation were "Khaens".

3. Unlike these days, that airports around the world racially profiling Iranians and seaching even their butt holes, during shah's days, Iranians were well respected around the world. 

 Those people who changed the view of international community against Iranians were "Khaens".

4. We are under attack these days and we may face disintegration of our country to the pieces.  We are facing Separtist movement, Prostition, drug addiction, highest rate of execution in the world and finally bomb attack to our beloved homeland. How do you feel bombs on the heads of our brothers and sisters inside Iran?

 Those who provided the current situation in Iran are "khaens".

You may ask who are those people? The answer is those are poeple who provoked guilable Iranian people against our late shah during 60's and 70's. I am sure you know who those people are. If in case you don't know them, please let me know and I will explain more in detail with their names.

 Abbas Milani is one of those who was Marxist during shah days and was detained by Savak for a while when he was teaching Marxism in Tehran university. Typical hypocrite who was critical of shah for being pro western world. Guess what? the first country he choosed to live after revolution was not marxist oriented countries. He prefered to live in the western world. He didn't go to USSR or China, as he was promoting those countries to the young guilable students.. He didn't even for 1 minute thought to go to the countries which were structured based on idea of Marx or Lenin. Instead he choosed to migrate to U.S.A  ha ha ha.. what a hypocrite..... not only that, he married an American woman as well by the name of Jean who helped him to write his "shah" book. Hypocricy hurts our nation very bad. He is not the only hypocrite, you can find plenty of them on this site.

Thanks for reading my post properly.

Siavash

                          GOAL : RESTORING MONARCHY

Constitution, civil society and freedom in Iran

I think this video of Mohammad Amini is very relevant to this discussion and many subjects discussed in this thread. According to him, it is true that only 0.5% of th population were educated at the turn of the century and the constitutional revolution was an incredible movement is such an uneducated and religious society.

I belive also that Masoud is very knowledgable and intelligent. But I am not sure were the emotions are coming from and what their purpose is. We should be able to calmly analyze the Pahlavi era for what it was. The assertion that there was incredible moernization and progress cannot logically be denied. However, one can argue that such modernization under a tyrannical and despotic rule came at a much higher cost of brutalizing a democratic movement, and preventing the development of a true civill society with the civil institutions to safegaurd our freedoms. At some point, we need to look at history as a lesson not a nightmare.  

black

and white world view may be a Dinosaur gene that is often a dominant allele among Iranians and result of a long and arduous history. The never ending demonizing of Shah, Mossadegh and then endless bickering about Shah v. Mossadegh while the enemy within is eating away. All was good with Shah if Mossadegh did not screw it up and vice versa. As though national character, history, geopolitics, historic coincidences... had nothing to do with Iran's history.

//iranian.com/main/blog/noosh-afarin/all-...

//iranian.com/main/2009/oct/culture-death

(I like to warmly remember our departed Iranian patriot and friend, often opposing my views, dear Farah Rusta)

The light I see at the end of this tunnel is that young generation in Iran seems better equipped to absorb the nuances of who/what/where we were/are without constantly deriding or praising ourselves out of frustration because none can come up with a good path out of a conundrum that is today's Iran.

Oktaby