Iraniandudeee

Iraniandudeee

"I believe in a nationalist secular society which should have limited democracy to an extent so that the enemy of the nation can't abuse the country by taking advantage of their unlimited democracy."

Limited Democracy is not Democracy at all.

//rwor.org/a/1199/iraqsideone.htm

AK69 WAS HERE

Btw Shadi

As I said before, don't rant, instead take your time to read my posts. AGAIN, I believe in democracy just not the system that the U.s has (which is basically a zoo). I believe in a nationalist secular society which should have limited democracy to an extent so that the enemy of the nation can't abuse the country by taking advantage of their unlimited democracy.

Sure okkay shadi

And it seems like i'm not gonna be able to change your veiw, neither are you gonna change mine.... You experienced another America full of Nice and cultured americans woop di doo, I don't know where or how, but you did, alright whatever, i respect that... but I experienced another america where it's people are uncultured, ignorant without much value or class, and i think you should respect my veiw because I experienced this and observed it with my own two eyes.

MMMkay?

BYE!

To Iraniandudeee from Shadi

I am not the one who mentioned burning the flag, but for your information there is a "Flag Code" for proper handling of the flag, in some countries desecrating the flag is illegal while in others it isnt, and there is reasons behind those laws, to understand them you can read here: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration.

I dont think there is anything I could say that would change your mind, and you would probably tell me again how awful americans are (note that america's population is actually a "melting pot" of people from different countries, this is why the democracy "level" has to be high, to welcome and respect everyone's rights). So I will only say - and repeat - a few things.

All I can tell you is that the people I know are friendly toward other countries, not like the people you described, and many of them are supporting Iran right now. And yes some people are more educated then others, and there is good and bad people, but this is true in every country in the world. Personally I don't judge people based on their level of education, and if I want them to learn about something I know I simply tell them about it, I don't think less of them because they didn't know. And I am sure every one of them could tell me something I don't know.

And democracy is not western, it is not about a country's culture, it is about human rights, which, as you know, originated from Persia. How much democracy you can stand is equal to how much you are willing to respect your neighbor's right to express himself, his culture, his beliefs, and so on.

I just wish you could find a place in your heart to forgive the mistakes of the past, committed by only a handful of people in the government, including people in the country, and not condemn a whole nation for it, they are not responsible, and they cannot change the past. Just like the germans of today are not responsible for the crimes committed by Hitler and their grand-parents.

I will leave you with this thought: To Cyrus the Great, humanity was one widely dispersed family. He believed so long before unequivocal genetic findings clearly established that biologically there is only one human race. He was a great and wise king.

May God bless you and your family.

P.S. Please don't close the doors behind you when you get home.

eshter

I'm not putting all the blame on the people of america for their ignorance... of-cource not. Ignorant and lack of education is not passed on by genetics, it's the culture and society of that country that decides these things.

 Now I have no idea what part of the U.S you've been to, but I've lived in more than 5 states and visited more than 20 through out the past 10 years, and from what i've seen, they're one of the most gullible, and ignorant people i've seen in any society. Sad thing is that they look down upon education. Whatever, I have no problem with this as long as they keep this kind of society and mentality in their own nation and not try to force it down other people's throats.

Iraniandudeee

As it happens, I have spent most of my life in Canada, but I am an American citizen, and I did go to university there for 4 years.  I am not an isolated case.

The CIA is not America.  Fox News is not America.  Your claims about "Americans" and "them" are stereotypes which may be true of some, but not all or even most.

If we are uneducated, educate us.  I can tell you that in Canada, I got through 12 years of school without ever having to learn anything about Iran.  We can't learn everything about every country (although we could certainly learn a bit more about a few more).  If our schools and our media don't teach us, our best hope is those we meet.

As for democracy ... Iran will have to figure out what kind of democracy it wants.  But the whole point of democracy is to give power to those who disagree with you.  I would rather live in a country where I could burn my flag and vote in a completely different president, than one where I couldn't even protest my inability to vote in a slightly different president.

Of course there is a lot of room between those two points.  Iranians will have to figure out where to (re)draw the line for themselves.  Some Americans have their ideas.  But many more simply wish to see Iranians develop their own ideas and their own definitions of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".

Shadi

 Americans don't care about you or me or the Iranian people. Infact, they most likely despise you.

 You seriously think they care about a free Iran led by the people? No, they're just after their own interest.

How could you even say they support a free Iran when they're the ones responsible for Iran descending into Anarchy, not once but two times? and who can forget them backstabbing the shah by supporting and funding islamist and anti-shah groups! sheesh, get off your high horse please. Americans are one of the most ignorant uneducated people I've ever met.

 As for me being a pahlavi supporter, I'm not, i'm an independant nationalist. I support any kind of Iranian nationalist group or movement, and all my Iranian brothers and sisters.

Yes, Modernization is not westernization, but according to these Americans it very much is and if you don't westernize then you're a backward savage to them.... Just ask any Americn about this issue, or hell, just watch it on the news, how they allways say"OOO, the Iranian people want to be just like the west, and are westernized".

 The problem with you is that you feel guilt if you talk about America like this cause you're living here, well, for me,  I don't feel any guilt what so ever, because the way i see it, america owes Iranians and iran alot... Not only for their middling, but they literally owe Iran billions of dollars in debt from the shah's time. Also i'm moving back to Iran in the future, so that's that.

Anyways, if it wasn't because of their anti-shah support I wouldn't even be in this "country" in the first place.

 Btw, I garuentee you that me and most Iranians out there would never want a democracy system like that of the u.s.... Just look at this place, everything here, from the media, society, and to the degenerate materialistic culture, it's all missed up. Democracy needs to be limited to an extent or you'll be living in the jungle before you know it, like america. Not only does this democracy that the u.s encourages flawed, but it gives more power to its enemies. You seriously would want a country where someoe can burn your own flag inside your country.... What could americans do if i did this.... the answers nothing. I'm not agaist democracy as a whole, but it needs to be limited. 

P.S. Your home is either Iran or the U.s, choose one.

Enough with the antagonism

While I agree 100% that Iran should keep its own culture, I disagree with the "America bashing" tone of your article. These "american/westerners" as you call them, are supporting a free Iran just as much, if not more, then many other countries in the middle-east and elsewhere. You say "Americans/westerners want us to think and believe that modernization equals westernization" ... it is such a false, wrong, and unfair statement. Who told you that americans want you to think that??? Honestly it sounds like some speeches you heard from IR, or some old statements from the 60s or 70s.

As you said yourself "modernisation" is not "westernisation" and it has nothing to do with culture, so why don't you stop antagonising people and promoting this false label yourself. You know, I know, and most people know, that modernisation and democracy are about freedom of expression, and fulfilling the needs of one's own country, not someone else's country.

Iran/Persia has a beautiful culture and the Islamic Regime has done nothing but crush it. I am not american myself but it is my country of adoption, I am not saying everything is perfect nor that I agree with everything I see and hear, but this is what you call democracy and freedom of speech and expression, at least people are free to express their opinion without fearing for their life, and I can tell you that iranians in america are more free to express themselves and their true culture then iranians in Iran, for instance try being a zoroastrian, baha'i or other religion in Iran. Ironically, even being a muslim in Iran is difficult, you never know when someone will decide that you are not a "good muslim". Not to mention the horrible shariah law.

I have been telling everyone that we should include all groups in this fight for freedom, that all have a right to speak up and let their voices heard, but I sure hope people like you don't manage to prove me wrong (I have seen a few Pahlavi supporters use this antagonist tone about America before).

Get out of the 60s and live the present, we have a great future ahead of us, please don't ruin it by isolating Iran once more.

Mrx1

I was merely giving you examples of some countries who are succesful (economically) and at the same time remained true to their culture and customs.

 Japan man, well Japan for the most part is Japanese, but they're pretty perverted... This again is an example of how these people took western culture and exaggerated it.. Kinda how you see the western culture being exaggerated in parts of Tehran ( You should know what I mean)... it's basically western culture on steroids. They try to be western so bad that they end up making the culture worse than it already is, if you can believe that.

Cap ayhab

I never said majority of modern things today were made by Iranians. I said we contributed greatly to the world. Both small and big inventions alike.

What is it with you allways trying to twist my words?  can't you read? Take more time reading then reply, cause not many people are gonna take you seriously if you keep on twisting their words for your own agenda.

 As for those inventions being foreign, well, some sources say that they are and many say they aren't.

Esther

When I mean western culture, i basically mean the modern American, british materialistic culture that comes out of their society.... Not all the countries of the west, but the big countries with strong influences. 

It's just that I know American culture because I was at a point very Americanized, hanged out with Americans, have American friends, so I experienced and still experience this culture first hand and see  it with my own two eyes.... And this culture just produces a useless society that no doubt is heading towards nothingness and nowhere.... It's a failed society at best.

 I mean if you just come and live in America for a couple of years you'll understand. Most Americans seem to be fine with it though.

 Btw, I'm glad you're not divorced and not on pills, but we're talking about the average American here, not an isolated case.

Not Ak

I say when we want to develop and progress our mind, let's do it with our own culture and mentality instead of with a  western/American culture and mentality... Cause you know what road we're gonna be heading down if we do that.

Mr. iraniandudeee

I understand your point, though you are mixing definitions and equating items randomly. That said, I’m Persian and many of your statements and assertions are in contrast to my “culture”. When Iran is free, Iranian “culture” will develop naturally by free people with free of thought and expression. Our heritage can and will be preserved in history books and national holidays; like other nations in this world. Note that I said “free” many times; don’t infringe on others’ freedom, even before we are free, by imposing belief systems on other people.

Cheers!

AK69 WAS HERE

Mr. Capt_Ayhab

There is one thing in modern technology that Iranians have contributed and advanced NANOTECHNOLOGY

P.S. "Young man, I do realize that you take pride in our heritage" I don't think he knows what our heritage is; since he interchanges heritage with culture. 

AK69 WAS HERE

Mr. Irandudeeee

No doubt about the very first human rights article, truly one of our great contributions. 

That aside, You said MAJORITY of new things which I an assuming inventions. As to your youtube link, That clip was posted in this very same site few months back, and most every exaggeration that contained in there was rebuked by many contributors, For instance game of chess[Chinese invention] being one, Chariots were built in Mesopotamia by the Mesopotamians as early as 3000 BC.

Poker: One of the earliest known games to incorporate betting, hand rankings, and bluffing was the 15th century German game Pochspiel. Poker closely resembles the Persian game of As Nas, though there is no specific description of nas prior to 1890.

David G. Schwartz, Roll the Bones: The History of Gambling, Gotham (2007), ISBN 978-1592403165

Young man, I do realize that you take pride in our heritage, rightfully so as I do, but exaggerations will take us no where. There isn't one contribution to modern technology, medicine, physics, astronomy, engineering, chemistry , etc etc that we are credited for in past several decades.

True that some Iranian Muslim scholars have contributed greatly to philosophy and literature, but many dispute them[not me] as being under the influence of Islamic golden era. 

Do not take me wrong, I am as proud as you are if not more, but being humble and realistic is foundation of every great person and nation.

-YT 

2 cents (or rials) from a Westerner

I'm sorry you have had such evidently bad experiences of Westerners and their culture (I’m always a bit puzzled by this "Western" label – I suspect it may be about as meaningful as "Middle Eastern").  My experiences of Iranians and their culture have been quite the contrary.

I don't deny Western culture, like any culture, has its negative aspects.  I don't deny Western culture, more than some, has its dominant and hegemonizing tendencies.  And I don't deny Westerners have contributed, and continue to contribute, to the difficulties of life for many both inside and outside Iran.

However, I don't believe modernization equals Westernization.  I'm less interested in forcing my culture than learning about others (although I do appreciate those who write in English, as I don't know Persian).  I do believe gross generalizations about "Westerners" and "them" (or anything else, for that matter) do nothing for either Iranian or Western culture. 

Then again, I'm neither on anti-depressants nor a single parent with a failed uncommitted marriage and burdensome children, so am I actually a Westerner?

Iraniandudeee

why would you want to emulate Turkey or UAE? what is so great about them?

what is wrong with western culture per say?(I suspect if you really didn't like western culture you would not be living in one) and why do you say Japanese are pervs? with openness, freedom, modernity you name it there may always be some elements that you and me may not like, but so what? are you so insecure about yourself or insecure about others?

I will take japanese model any time any place over what's out there. 

they just deleted my

they just deleted my responses, I'm not writing them all over again.

If your version of our

if your version of our culture is verbally attacking everyone I do not want it.

Beside who said I prefer all this you said;"""""

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I'm, not attacking anyone, in fact they're attacking us by trying to force their culture on us and believe whoever that doesn't want a society like theirs is a barbarian or backwards, while in reality they are the ignorant backward ones.

Cpt Ayrab

 """"What is it that we Iranians have contributed huge percentage of it to the world? """""

The fact that you ask me that question tells me that you'v never read about Iranian history.

Iranians themselves contributed small and big inventions ad ideas to the world...... One of the biggest being human rigths

 Some quotes that describe what other non Iranians said about us.

No wonder, the famous Orientalist, Professor Arthur
Pope said: "Western world has a vast unpaid debt to
the Persian civilization!"

Hegel, the great German Philosopher,
wrote: The beginning of evolution of man starts with
the history of Persia (Hegel, Philosophy of History)

watch and educate yourself.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rmp-H_qY-Y

Irandudee

Ok. Fine. Let's say they are in the most, infinitsilmally small minority and are seen only in some parts of Tehran, But it is not for the sake of "enjoyment" only. They look into other cultures because it gives them a chance to think with an open mind and broader vision so they can understand more and live a more productive life.

I am sorry but I seriously believe that even though the pahlavis were absolutely instrumental to our people preserving their nationality and cultural values under nationalisma, we were also free to pick and choose from other cultures as well and never live under such strict and limiting environment. A Huge chunk of your youth, a lot more than there are today, were mesmorized with both the postive and negative (unfortunately) aspect of American or western culture. Because the regime had made such resources publicly available to them.

I also notice that you said :

Now if you would want Iran to become westernied, where most people are materialistic, fake, greedy, have no values or barely any worthy culture. where half of them are on antidepressant pills, and the other half are single parents whos marriage failed because they had no commitment cause they only cared about theirself, and where they veiw their kids as burdens on them.... If you want these things for iran, I highly suggest you go get your head checked.

 Are you really suggesting these are the only values that the west offers? If that is the case, Then i must say that your informationare purely media-driven and you are not bothering to see the facts for yourself.

You are doing the most unkind disservice to call most of them Greedy and materialistic, Knowing that greed runs rampant in Our country iran, which owes a lot to the way IRI policies's has changed the fabric of our society.

Cpt Ayrab

 """"What is it that we Iranians have contributed huge percentage of it to the world? """""

The fact that you ask me that question tells me that you'v never read about Iranian history.

Iranians themselves contributed small and big inventions ad ideas to the world...... One of the biggest being human rigths

 Some quotes that describe how other non Iranians said about us.

No wonder, the famous Orientalist, Professor Arthur
Pope said: "Western world has a vast unpaid debt to
the Persian civilization!"

Hegel, the great German Philosopher,
wrote: The beginning of evolution of man starts with
the history of Persia (Hegel, Philosophy of History)

watch and educate yourself.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rmp-H_qY-Y

Modern Things

Mr. Irandudeee you stated that [these Americans/westerners want us to think and believe that modernization equals westernization while in reality it's far from the truth, since most modern things we use in this world are in fact from
other parts of the world (A huge percentage being from Iran/Persia or created by the Persian people)]

Can you elaborate on this as to what things you are specifically referring to? I am not sure if you are referring to innovations or what. What is it that we Iranians have contributed huge percentage of it to the world?

Regards

-YT 

Iraniandudee

if your version of our culture is verbally attacking everyone I do not want it.

Beside who said I prefer all this you said;

"westernied, where most people are materialistic, fake, greedy, have no values or barely any worthy culture. where half of them are on antidepressant pills, and the other half are single parents whos marriage failed because they had no commitment cause they only cared about theirself, and where they veiw their kids as burdens on them"

you do not know me or my motives. What have you learned from democracy?

The more I use this site the more I am convinced those who are ranting about being more Iranian are less understanding.

MR1X

Islam in Iran is basically finished.... Not many religous people are left.

 Also, Japan is westernized in a way, seeing how perverted they're over there.... so it's not the example I was looking for Iran. Turkey, UAE are examples of how you can modernize without westernizing.... Anyways, if we're gonna do it, we should try to do it better all these countries put together.

Have a little faith

Our culture is a mish-mush of various influences, some good, some not so good.  I believe when we have a progressive government, the goodness of our people will prevail and they will rid themselves of the ugly characteristics that have been brought to us, directly or indirectly .  Having been abroad for a long time, when I visit HOME, I see truly amazingly wonderful behaviors amongst Iranians that I can dare say you would never see in any western culture.  I don't think there will be a decision over what culture to adopt at any point in time.  We all have heard the stories that after the revolution, people would boo vehicles that were running red lights.  This is the kind of self correction I expect will happen.       

Look at the Japanese

They have managed to preserve their culture and at the same time create a robust modern kick ass economey.No body likes to live in a dirt  poor backward country with filt and mosquitos all around, not even imprelaist wanna be fighters like ardeshir ommani..... 

What we need in Iran, is resurection of Iranian culture to replace  imam reza, imam hosessin, karbela, ghods, ashura, tasoa and the rest of kosy share that they force fed us through centuries. And yes it will take time but you have to start from some where.

As much as I hate and detest regime, one of the best things that came out of this regime,  is forcing us to look at ourself and search for our true culture and identity.

iranian culture to me?

is iranian personals.com. sexy, fun, no stress. the opposite of you and your hardline attitude toward people. sheesh. you're a bigger geezer than i am and I'm up there in age. thank you for making me feel young.

 amirkabear4u , a society

 amirkabear4u , a society of a country depends on the culture of the people, and the mentality of a person depends mainly on the culture and society of that nation.

Now if you would want Iran to become westernied, where most people are materialistic, fake, greedy, have no values or barely any worthy culture. where half of them are on antidepressant pills, and the other half are single parents whos marriage failed because they had no commitment cause they only cared about theirself, and where they veiw their kids as burdens on them.... If you want these things for iran, I highly suggest you go get your head checked.

""""""Are you for real? Who

""""""Are you for real? Who are these people you are talking about? There are two issues here: The western culture has tremendous popularity in iran, Although it may not be what is really "needed" for our society and out youth. Look at the photos and videos from the streets of not just tehran but other big cities and you will get the message.""""""""""

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UUUUh, yes, i'm for real. I'm not denyig that some part of the iranian youth is some what westernized though to them not wanting to follow islamic culture so they look at other cultures to live their life for enjoymentand what not.... But all in all, this is a small minority that can only be found in parts of tehran and not any other place or city.

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""""""""""Why blaming and shooting the messenger? People in iran could easily reject such western offers, and what is obvious is it that especially in this day and age when The IRI is watching them like a hawk, we still witness how they warmly embrace everything culturally related to the west, Music, magazine, books... etc.

Pahlavi dynasty was the one that openned the gates to welcome the western culture, with good and positive intentions. And no matter what group of politicians take over the power in iran, our country can not remain culturally-isolated and in quarantined under the nonsensical excuse of Nationalism. It is a multicultural world we live in these days and we can not remain in isolation. """"""""

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Now here's the thing, as i said before, why you see alot of Iranian youth becoming westernized in parts of tehran is A. They watch sattelite t.v and exaggrate what western culture is, hence the guido spiked hair looking douche bags B. The main reason why that certian group of youth tries to live their life by western culture is because they see nothing that interests them in Islamic culture nor what the islamic government encourages that actually matches their beliefes, so again, they look to other culture for relief C. During the pahlavi dynasty, because of how the government was nationalistic and encouraged natioalism and national and cultural identity, we had few youths that looked towards other cultures to live their life by because of the fact that the youth and the people back then shared a similar belief (culturally wise) with the government, now a days it's different story, but as a majority, most Iranian don't look towards western culture, and the ones that do, only adapt the positive parts of it. Of-cource i know about the hippies and crap in iran (My father himself was a hippy) but even these Iranian hippies were different in almost everyway than the American or western hippies (they didn't smoke weed etc...) basically, if anyone had long hair they would be called a hippy back then. Btw, during the pahlavi dynasty, even when a group did adapt western culture they would only adapt to the positive parts and not the negative, also keep in mind that western culture of today is alot worse than it was 30 years ago.