JahanKhalili

Unfortunates.

"I don't know why Iranians can't have a conversation without politics being involved."

There are some negative points for being an Iranian:

Iranians don't read books much because they don't have reasonable books with fair translations in their own country.  They don't travel because they cannot get visa.  They don't have access to an appropriate internet.  They like to entertain themselves by transfering what they have heard from others like a mail man delivering politics. 

Their government discourages followings, which are base for a personal growth: 

Being: (a) Independence, (b) Purposeful, (c) Proactive, (d) Perceptive, (e) Personable, (f) Persuasive

But, many Iranians are sweet, they make you laugh and they are kind and trustworthy as a friend.

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

Can you just forget about politics for a minute?

The sun and the universe do not revolve around dumb Iranian politics. 

I don't know why Iranians can't have a conversation without politics being involved.

I could be discussing solar storms here, and some Iranian would show up and somehow theorize about how some government or other might be involved in them. 

You want to be critical of iranians, look at them today

that is better than looking at them in the 1930's.

A people who followed a guy who said this,

"Personal desire, age, and my health do not allow me to personally
have a role in running the country after the fall of the current system."
-Ayatollah Khomeini (in an interview with the Associated Press, Paris,
November 7, 1978)

"I have repeatedly said that neither my desire nor my age nor
my position allows me to govern." -Ayatollah Khomeini (in an interview
with the United Press, Paris, November 8, 1978)

"I don't want to have the power or the government in my hand;
I am not interested in personal power." -Ayatollah Khomeini (in
an interview with The Guardian newspaper, Paris, November 16, 1978)

And then worshipped him as he became the dictator of iran.

You want to be critical of iranians, look at them today

that is better than looking at them in the 1930's.

A people who followed a guy who said this,

"Personal desire, age, and my health do not allow me to personally
have a role in running the country after the fall of the current system."
-Ayatollah Khomeini (in an interview with the Associated Press, Paris,
November 7, 1978)

"I have repeatedly said that neither my desire nor my age nor
my position allows me to govern." -Ayatollah Khomeini (in an interview
with the United Press, Paris, November 8, 1978)

"I don't want to have the power or the government in my hand;
I am not interested in personal power." -Ayatollah Khomeini (in
an interview with The Guardian newspaper, Paris, November 16, 1978)

And then worshipped him as he became the dictator of iran.

Hi Comments

For my part, I live to satisfy my curiosity.

I hate being told not to ask questions. 

I hate being told not to touch things because they're dirty.

I hate being told that it is improper to pursue an interest in something, because its not respectable.

I've heard all these things from silly reputation-obsessed Iranians all my life. 

They are such a pain in the ass - and there is really nothing about them that warrants this arrogant attitude that gives them the idea that they know what someone else should be doing, etc. 

Where have you been?

but from what I'm reading, it appears that not a single discovery was ever made by an Iranian

When Mohammed Reza pahlavi was born in all of iran we did't even have a single doctor or nurse.  What should make iranians proud is what iranians accomplished during the shahs time as king.  If you want to be truly critical of Iranians, don't judge them at a time when they were truly in mass poverty like ethiopia today, look at them in the 1970's, when they betrayed the shah after his successful service to them and threw their lot with the hezbollahi party in Iran, the shia clergy the true source of irans backward thinking.

No, I Wouldn't Say Iranians Are Bad in General

There are good things about them, too.

But there are distructive things in their culture, and I'm going to talk about them.

Important.

Of course all fields are important including archeology.  I know graduate students who discovered the presence of wine biomarkers in Egyption archeological food containers.  Isn't it important?

Archeology is one of the many other "important" fields.  The importance in a subject or field is decided by politicians.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZaLipDgFZQ&feature=related

p.s. we all need to feel important or value ourselves.  That's the only reason that we are still alive.

Iranians are bad bad bad!

      Could we leave'em alone?! One of their characteristics is that they criticize each other at every turn, There you go!

Let's Not Get Side Tracked

This discussion has nothing to do with racism, Hitler, or wages.

It has to do with the know-it-all attitude that many Iranians have - particularly the "important" ones who are shielded from criticism and whom everyone among their countrymen are busy bowing down and worshipping. 

So I thought I'd do a little investigating to see why these people who are so full of wisdom and greatness, neglected to show any interest in their own country's archeology.

The Situation That Existed in Germany Before WWII

... is just as unknown to Iranians as their own archeology.

So let's stop quoting from TV and movies without really doing research. 

No, I Disagree Soosan Khanoom

You say that discrimination is evil.

But if I were to ask you to pay my medical bills after I went to the hospital you would probably be less likely to do it for me than for a close family member. 

That's natural. It would be ridiculous to expect otherwise.

And its discrimination.

Learn to challenge the politically correct crap they teach in the West (which is Marxist in origin). 

PhD. :)

There are also some good looking PhDs other than Iranians PhDs to socialize.

PhDs have it all:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=XViCOAu6UC0

My analysis:)

(a) "In Iran, bosess and employers are traditionally treated like gods, and their employees must behave like servants towards them. "

Why? Lack of tolerance and weak in communications.  Because we don't have a tolerance level to deal with critisisim.  We are not able to communicate.  We are opportunists.

Solution? Government has to do something for that for sure.  Western countries were not that different years ago in this regard.

(b) "Plus, its Iranians who think lowly of manual labor."

Why? Because it pays less.  In the US if I work in a coffee shop, full time, I won't be worried about my basic expenses any more.  I could buy a nice piece of clothing if I work a few hours in a coffee shop or a restuarant.  What are we going to earn if we do the same in Iran?

Solution? I suggest higher wages for manual jobs in Iran :)  Are Iranians in Iran able to earn money by a job with hand the same as people do in the US?

p.s. baba cheghadr be Ph.D.ha gir dadi?  Can I ask you to stop your communications with Iranian Ph.D.s?  Since you love Ph.D.s why don't communicate with Indian, Spanish or Chineese Ph.D.s?  Don't they fit your requirements better?  Aren't you giving too much credit to Iranian Ph.D.s by talking too much about them?  Believe me, they are nothing if you don't talk about / with them.

Good points Dear VPK I agree

Good points Dear VPK I agree  ...

by the way, some so called opponents here have nothing to offer but labells and we have heard them all ...  who cares ....  

: ) 

Dear SK

Racism is self defeating as well. My kids and I were discussing WWII. I pointed out that there were many brilliant German Jews. If Hitler hat not aliened them Germany had a good chance of winning. 

But racism was one of the reasons he lost. I read that the allies would not believe the resource diverted to the holocaust. What kind of idiot would do that? Given up your best scientists becuase they are "racially impure". What a pile of crap if I may say. 

You are right. It all depends on who is in charge. What I fear for Iran is that we have one bunch of nuts against another. IRI vs MEK or is it Aryan vs. Islam. I just hope it does not come to it. Now watch my opponents dig up something do kick me with.

VPK Jan

I respect human nature .... deep inside we can distinguish between good or evil ...  there are more to the human being existance rather than just its animal instincts..

besides if that is natural so does any other discriminations .... survival of the fittest ... i guess....   and it depends who is in charge  and is in power... it is then the jungle rule after all  : )

Dear SK

I am very sorry to have to say racism is very natural. Built into our survival instincts and only overcome by our intellect. 

Many species use "racism" to wipe out others but we and I mean humans have the ability to be better. Why is there the "endangered species act". Whilst racism and speciesem are both in our genes our mind is able to overpower it. 

racism is not natural

so does any other discriminations ... Discrimination is an act if evil regardless of its kinds ...  and if here in the U.S they did not have the blacks they would have created a class system discrimination just like iran .... 

 It is being human with its evil side which triumphs no matter what ...one way or another ....

by the way , get over the doctor thingy ... For some in Iran you still will be discriminated against if you are, for example, the child of a lower class family regardless of your degree ... your degree would not make up for that ..

anyway... I know what your points are and I agree with them but you need to see my points as well ...  

False Privileges

This is really about the overblown idea educated Iranans have of themselves.

The Iranian PhD rat-race is far less interesting to me than the work foreign archeologists have done in Iran.

Racism Has Nothing to Do With It

As someone who is the result of a mixed-race marriage, I regard racism as natural and not something that can be gotten rid of...

... nor is it entirely evil. Societies where there is mostly one ethnicity probably are more homogenous and able to have harmony than those which don't - therefore it stands to reason that such a society will try to preserve that by excluding outsiders adn preventing the eroding of that ethnicity-based society.

Iran did and does have plenty of racism, of course. Like I said, the finger pointers are usually guilty themselves.

But this discussion wasn't really about race. It is about the ridiculous priveleged status many Iranians - particularly the educated ones - annoint themselves with regardng their supposed learnedness, while they aren't even willing to go exploring in their own country.

JK

In any society the evil of treating a certain group of people as the second hand citizens exists ... In the U.S it used to be the blacks, for example. called racism. But in Iran discrimination exists based on the class system .... So what you point out is true but not that it does not exist in the west. It exists but in another form...   

But giving the chance, Iranian could well be racists as well. The thing is we did not have to deal much with any other race as much as the U.S ...  

DO not forget that not long time ago they were burning blacks in this country and the law enforcements people did not do a damn thing to prevent it. It came as a long struggle to finally be abolished.  I guess, at least, Iranian records are a little bit better than the U.S .. !! 

But in general, it is not the idea of being Iranian or American that causes these unthinkable actions but rather the idea of an act of evil.  And  again it goes back to IGNORANCE. 

This class system is not an issue for Iranian-Americans and even, if it still is for the first generation, it is not going to be the case with the second generation ...

And For those who live inside Iran ... The key is education. These things should start from the schools but you first need to educate the teachers ...  in iran we have a long way to go ....   

I Find It Funny

That Iran has a surplus of university students and educated people who cannot even find work in their own country after they graduate ....

... while there are still probably undiscovered archeological sites in Iran, as well as the known ones probably being neglected. 

That says something about Iranian culture, doesn't it? 

Western Archeologists Do Their Own Digs ALL THE TIME!

This is a bit of psychological projection - the accusation that Western archeologists must have just sat there while Iranian workers slaved for them. 

Its Iranians who ride really hard on the backs of their workers and treat them like dirt.

In America, it is normal for a boss and his employee to address each other by their first names, and to even sit and eat together.

In Iran, bosess and employers are traditionally treated like gods, and their employees must behave like servants towards them.

Plus, its Iranians who think lowly of manual labor. 

I hear Iranians brag about never having done any work with their hands, and only having done office jobs.

One Iranian who had worked in a coal mine begged my uncle who was in his class in medical school to never reveal that fact to other Iranians.

Iranians are ashamed of good honest manual labor.

Westerners - and Americans in particular - aren't. 

They believe that an individual makes their destiny by starting small and working up, while Iranians view anything "small" and inglorious as shameful and pretend that titles and status make one "great".

Maziar

How do you know that Western archeologists sat on their butts while Iranian workers dug for them?

Do you know that excavating an archeological site requires special training that Iranian workers probably didn't have?

They use little brushes and trowels - things that Iranian workers do not usually use.

I would think that unleashing Iranian workers on any arcehological site would be a big mistake! 

But please share the source of your information that Iranian workers did even any of the actual excavation work at these sites. 

Culture

There is no doubt that Iranians specially those who live inside the Iran have cultural barriers.

Of course, the ruling governments dictate or modify the culture in a great extent.  Cutlure is dominated by what we learn. 

For example, medicine and engineerings have been always priritized to science, music and humanities in Iran and among Iranians.

Please remember: when we talk about Iranians we have to include ourselves.  At least we have to start from ourselves.  What are our limitations?  What does it make us sensitive?  Why do we open our hearts to Iranians, but not other nationalities?  Why are we writing whatever we want in Iranian.com, but not other blogs? 

Because we are making our cultures.  Others are not going to read or comment in our opinions?  We do have respect only in our culture because we value each others, but we don't count others as human beings.  We have to start from ourselves by repecting other nationalities and learning from them.

This one is a lot better

JK

I would say that you have been pretty rough on iranians, even though you probably did not have any bad intentions and were just going for some strictly constructive criticism. But i think you are right on the money this time around.

However i also agree with Mr. Fozolie on some of the realities regrading the issue.

Good Job on Your fact-finding journey.

Please ignore comments attempting at dissecting your personal past and how and why things happened. K?

..

Germans,Brits,French took contract with corrupt 19 +20th century rullers of Iran and actually the Poor workers did the digging while they sat in shades cataloging their loots for the museums like in Paris,London ....

Be counted for some than NONE.

Maziar

Repeat post

But the message stays the same. Like Led Zeppelin's "The song remains the same". You half western types whould know Zeppelin, No?

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IRAN FIRST

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I don't know it all

But I do know that you need serious help.

Did daddy beat you silly when you were a kid? I am so sorry, but it ain't my fault. Not all Pesian dads are like that you know.

The only advice I give you is GET HELP! 

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IRAN FIRST

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