Jaleho

amen Sister

There are also a handful of people--a tiny ever-shrinking one--who in the interests of appearing popular and diplomatic continue to offer diplomatic and tolerant support of the brutal inanities espoused by this Regime-defending crowd, and don't seem to realize that in the current climate that makes them complicitous. You just can't sit back when someone's shot in the heart for standing on a street corner and ask someone who repeatedly justifies the Regime to please clarify so we can all make nicey nice.  So they don't quite realize how upset the now overwhelmingly vast majority is with them.

And Captain... don't you find it amusing when someone calls you out for personal attacks?  :-)  That old saying about glass houses comes to mind.

My interpretation, KN

The entire political terrain of the website has shifted starting with Obama but especially and irrevocably since the green movement.

Formerly you had what was perceived (and self-perceived) as a kind of catch-all left, which was viewed as 'apologist' due to their hush hush about human riights violations in Iran. Then you had a kind of catch-all center-right, which was very vocal about human rights violations and tended to be more pro-US (and sometimes Israel) in orientation. There were very few people on the 'Left' who were vocal about human rights violations in Iran. It was actually because MOST of them were afraid of giving 'ammunition' for Bush & Co. to attack Iran--you know, Chelabism. They never said so but I understood it, even though it wasn't that way.

Since Obama, slowly at first, and now with the Green movement, the vast majority on the 'Left' has come out (along with say NIAC) to very vocally speak up against human rights violations in Iran. This has created what I'd call a left-center coalition. as regards the movement There is also still what I'd call a center-right which, while it supports the green movement and its members here emotionally and ethically, does not support it politically because of a flat-out rejection of any IR rulership, even short-term, no matter how Reformist, especially one with someone with a history like Mousavi's. at the helm 

On the extreme right we have a handful of people who are overtly contemputuous and hateful of the left part of the coalition HERE, (although almost never of the protesters), and some of whom even seem to be openly HOPING for a bloodbath in the streets. And on the far (Islamo)left we have people who have distinguished themselves admirably from the left-center coalition, by, against all human reason and ethics, continuing to not only apologize for but openly defend the Regime after it has shot people's heads off and killed them in prison.

Those two groups are the same. Extremists always are. They value ideology over life and they will rationalize anything. Anything. And often there is an authoritian personality lurking there which gets off on violence as a form of power assertion--what else could you think of someone who sang the praises of this election while people were being attacked and killed? The difference is the far right fanatics KNOW they support violence, the Islamo-left won't admit it and that is why I call them 'Fascists in petticoats'. Dabashi calls them 'nauseating.'

We don't really HAVE a non-Islamo far 'Left' here.

There are also a handful of people--a tiny ever-shrinking minority--who in the interests of appearing popular and diplomatic continue to offer diplomatic and tolerant support of the DISCOURSE though not content of the brutal inanities espoused by this Regime-defending crowd, and don't seem to realize that in the current climate that makes them complicitous. You just can't sit back when someone's shot in the heart for standing on a street corner and ask someone who repeatedly justifies the Regime to please clarify so we can all make nicey nice.  So they don't quite realize how upset the now overwhelmingly vast majority is with them.

Well, very very loosely speaking that's how I see the shift here. I know where I am on my (albeit admittely imperfect) spectrum of terminology--in a former minority not mentioned above, the consistently outspoken human rights advocates of the 'Left--and you know where you are and we know where each other is and so we share common values but not political beliefs and strategies about the movement. And that is fine. Although I wish you'd join the movement. Needless to say.

Actually I probably haven't said much here you already haven't thought about, KN. Just wanted to 'get it out of my system'.

AO

Yes, I certainly agree that these lowlifes have made themselves more distinguishable, even though they were showing their hands for quite some time before the latest hell broke loose. I have a feeling if I were playing poker with any of them, they would be relieved of all of their money in no time!

Capt-ayhab, Khaleh Moushe

Capt Ayhab: I have just seen your comment: "P/S so as long as MEHRNAZ appoves the JalehOO, I guess we are set ;-)".  It is not clear to me what you mean by approval, sir.  I have made it clear that I do not agree with JalehO.  Did you read the whole comment?  I however indicated my approval of what Jaleho says in relation to Makhmalbaf whom I like and respect as a film-maker, but I am hugely disappointed with his speech in relation to Iran's nuclear programme and his contention that Iran is a threat to world peace!!  Do you agree with those remarks yourself?  Do you believe that there is evidence that Iran is developing nuclear weapons and is posing a threat to world peace, sir?  I don't believe so, from what I have read of your comments in the past.

The other point I made in my comment was my disapproval of reducing a political debate to personal attacks.  Don't you believe, as an academic, that people can have very strong differences but discuss matters politely, keep to issues, and battle ideas with ideas rather than personal insult and demeaning language?  I am sure you do.  Do you feel you have succeeded in any real clarification of your own views and that of your opponent or developed any ideas when debate is reduced to personal insult?  There are those on this site that hurl abuse because they lack the linguistic and intellectual capacity to argue and they are spewing with Islamophobic and xenophobic hatred.  Those I don't care to reply to.  But I am disappointed by your comment; I expected very differently from you, Capt.

Khaleh Moushe, There is no "Women's Support Group".  There is however a human support ethos.  I know you are very sad and angry by the events in Iran.  So am I.   I don't see what you found nauseating?  Not treating someone who thinks differently as an enemy?  With that attitude, people in Iran must be at each other's throats, there should be a most vicious civil war ...  Let us not allow hatred to blind our moral and intellectual judgement.  

Kaveh Jaan

You have to at least give Jaleho some credit for standing her ground.  As much of a disgusting hezbollahi as she is, at least she didn't go into hiding for three weeks like the other handful of dirtbags that we see on this site.  Those cowards went into hiding as soon as feces hit the fan.  As you can see though (even on this thread) they are slowly crawling out of their holes and are back to their old game, which is covering the atrocities of the IRI, fear mongering and scaring people into silence.

One of the good things that happened on this site since the elections in Iran is that we smoked out the IRI supporters in disguise and out of disguise.  We now know that there's only a handful on these idiots on this site...but boy are they loud!!  You see the same ones on every thread, saying the same things, defending the indefinsible, etc...  

"Would you have been as nasty if she was a man?" Yes, I have!

Fouzul Bashi khanoom, aka ... : of course I would and I have been!

Just ask anyone, and they would tell you that my harsh remarks don't know sex, religion and nationality - the only criteria is "nice to nice, but nasty for nasties".

Because you're Iranian, Anon8

To continually evaluate your own countries deeds and misdeeds exclusively in comparison with those of foreign powers is an inverted neo-Colonialsim of the soul. Because you implicitly deny your own people any capacity for self-determination and agency...

That one's my 'schtick' since I wrote it in a blog months ago. I just read a couple of days ago that Dabashi calls it a 'colonized mind'.

Care to debate that one with me or would you rather go back to my blog and insist that your country now virtually owned and governed by the Sepaah is not Fascist? Or just keep moving on?

And anyway I keep trying to tell you, IT'S NOT A NUMBERS GAME.

NOT excessive compared to Western politics

why can't we iranians be judged according to politicians like george bush, karl rove, dick cheney. Ahmadinejad does not even close!

Duly noted, KN

for the nth time. Jaleho has long been a positive force here in uniting people of diverse ideologies and temperaments. And anyway, with a moustache like that, you can't be all that gloomy, now can you?

Rosie

Me? Gloomy? Nah.

Just noting how some can always be relied upon to ignore certain realities.

Kaveh, don't be such a gloomy Gus.

The article may be same 'ol  fruitiness, but there have been fruitful discussions on the thread...

plus ca change..

LMAO

I'm gone for a few days and I see that nothing has really changed. In fact, it might be fair to say that it has degenerated even further.

"...a most fruitful phase in Iran's democracy..." Oh, man, that was bee-yoo-tee-full! Priceless!

If Iran is a democracy, then George W. Bush is a freaking genius.

The support group definitely NOT funny

Nauseating more like it. 

Maziar...so you've seen

the "women's support group" in action too huh?  Aren't they just funny!!!

Well..

there are many gods...

lol

Re: Rosie

Thank you for the links.

Insured for just the next 20 years? It goes to show how inconfident the commander is since I thought theirs is the government of God and therefore permanent.

Fouzul

You ask Captain:'How many people do you insult in one comment? I would bet that you just won the contest for the most insults in the shortest reply'. I would say you aren't doing so bad yourself considering you are insulting EVERYBODY's intelligence here!

I can understand why you would come back to this thread with this ID to attack people some more, but why pretend to be a man, giving other men a lesson in chivalry?!!! The little 'women's support group' you have built which comes to each other's rescue is not lost on the rest of us. This is a disgrace to all intelligent men and women on this site. It makes no difference who is doing it, men or women have nothing to be proud of with behavior like this.

my 1 comment

i don't know  what everyone is arguing about but i just like say -- Phu*k Khamenei and Phu*k Ahmadinejad.

 --thank u! come again !  ... ;-)

Jamshid,

//iranian.com/main/2009/jul/green

I thought you would like to see that cartoon if you didn't, along with my comment.

A short news item I posted a couple of weeks ago with my comment I feel is also very telling.

//iranian.com/main/news/2009/07/08/islamic-revolution-insured-least-20-years

(I confess I did confuse him with Jaffary but the point's the same...)

Take care, and good to see you here. In troubled times we stick together.

r.

Re: Shazdeh Asdola

Well said. Couldn't have wrote it any better.

Clap clap clap

‫

If you look at the logic, you find any...

As Antari and most radical OOsOOlgarayan in Iran - who deny the reality by imposing their tyranny through misinformation and all medias they detain. Miss JalehOOgarayan, is fighting against  all of us non-intelligent guys here, because what??

Because, she thinks that too may Iranians in the west are totally disconnected from Iranian realities yet they allow themselves to act as if they are the guardians of the "poor" disadvantaged Iranians. Eyvol!! Benazam be in ma'na - she pretends to love Mollana!!

The question to Miss JalehOOgarayan is, why are you trying to fight ignorance? We are really happy to not belong to your world. Leave us alone and go play in Malijakestan with your other OOssOOlgarayan friends. They deserve you.

Re: Bijan A M

Thank you for your kind remarks. The thoughts are mutual. I too have always appreciated your level headed opinion in this site.

Jaleho is wrong to suggest that the current events in Iran are just reactions of a sore loser. The truth is that it is the reaction of a brutalized people who have nowhere to go but to the streets.

In the past, the IRI had always left a "soopaap" in form of the reformists for the people to vent their anger. This time, they plugged even that outlet.

The opposition leaders have failed us for 30 years. They are outmoded and useless, and the people in Iran know it. That is why the people are using IRI's own elements against itself. The opportunity arised with the fake election results and so did the intelligent young men and women in Iran who poured in the streets.

Imagine for a moment that these people chanted for what really is in their hearts and minds, i.e., the fall of the regime in its entirety and the elimination of all mollahs from positions of power and the establishment of a truly democratic government.

What would happen? They would be crushed without any kind of mercy, a thousand times worst than today. Thousands of executions and many thousands more of arrests would take place while the likes of Mousavi and Khatami would show a "mild" discontent here and there.

But don't you enjoy watching how these brave young men and women have outsmarted the regime and even the reformsists?

I don't know where this movement is headed. I only know that Khamenei and his allies and Sepaah is no Shah and Artesh. In the absence of a military coup, Khamenei's assasination and other similar events, I don't think this movement has the power to topple the hardliners, let alone the regime.

But hopefully it could gain a few concessions from the hardliners in favor of the reformsits and also in favor of the people. It could also keep up the pressure to gradually gain more concessions from the hardliners. Not much, but better than nothing in the current circumenstances.

There is also a chance for another coup in favor of the hardliners where the regime/sepaah will get rid of Mousavi, Rafsanjani and other dissent mollahs by killing some of them and blaming it on foreign supported elements, and imprisoning or otherwise do their usual "disapearance" act against others.

I think in the next six months or so there is a strong chance for this to happen. I am surprised that nobody in Iran or abroad is talking about it, or warning the people about this dangerous possibility.

I feel sad and sorry for Iran. Truly we must be god forsaken for having to lay our hopes on the likes of Rafsanjani. But as they say, the enemy of my enemy is my friend and desparate times call for desparate measures.

Obviously, there are many other factors involved. History shows us that it takes only a few factors to emerge simoultaneously in favor of the people for a government to collapse. And today Iran is fertile for this, so I am keeping my hopes high.

Wrong Monda!

I don't consider bishtar "boron marzis," as you call them nafahm. but I certainly consider many of them nafahm, with no political intelligence or savad compared to Iranians inside Iran. I think too may Iranians in the west are totally disconnected from Iranian realities yet they allow themselves to act as if they are the guardians of the "poor" disadvantaged Iranians. Nauseating attitude if you ask me.

Re: Iraneh Azad

I couldn't agree with you more. IRI's independence is only in slogans and chest beatings. In practice, the IRI has made Iran one of the most depended countires of the world, considering its vast resources and great potential.

Thank you for the video. Indeed, the people of Iran are telling the world that they are awake when they chant "death to Russia". The Russian government has arrogantly supported the violent coup government and has turned its back to the people of Iran.

Here is another of the slogans people chanted: 

"marg bar dictator"

"yaa putin baasheh yaa doctor"

I am hoping that people will plan for demonstrations in front of the Russian embassies in Europe and US to send a message both to Russia and to its "nokar" coup government in Iran.

Fouzoul, the blog posted on the night of the 'elections' was

intentionally sadistic to the majority of the people on this website. That election meant a lot to a lot of people and they were traumatized that night. Perhaps you may recall that shortly thereafter millions took to the streets and thousands were arrested, some killed.

The majority of people on this website including the publisher were among those millions who felt that way.  No one here is making a normal regular salary. This website is basically an act of love on the part of the publisher. That woman gets to spew her drivel day in day out on that man's back. Who else would give her a place to spew it? Common human decency would've dictated that the sadism be avoided.

So what's your point? That you don't have any common human decency either? 

chivalry is dead ghorbatan elallaah!

capt_ayhab guerami

How many people do you insult in one comment? I would bet that you just won the contest for the most insults in the shortest reply.

What do you have against these ladies? Are they not allowed to speak about political issues? What did Mehrnaz khanoum say to offend you? you must be a diehard fan of Makhmalbaf to defend him by slamming an Iranian lady for such a short comment she wrote.

As for SAM or anyone else who addresses someone with that tone (or yours for that matter) I would be very careful using the term "gentleman". Some of us have tried all our lives to earn respect and you're giving away this title to just anyone! Sorry SAM although I agree with the content of your comment the way you addressed this lady is appalling. Would you have been as nasty if she was a man?

Last thing I am totally curious about: why did you add another O to Jaleho's name? What significance does it have? 

Too many questions? it's my nature! :-))

Question was asked of jalehOO

Gentleman Shazdeh Asodolah asked you a question, Are you nafaham or just pretending?

 Shazdeh Asdolah.... 
in Bijan P M agho ro ziad naranjon, taghsire khodesh nist, madar zadi kheng varede in donya shode.

-YT 

P/S so as long as MEHRNAZ appoves the JalehOO, I guess we are set ;-) sorry for extra O

Dear Jahanshah

Apparently you've been paying JalehO's rent.

INCLUDING THE PUBLISHER who came out strongly for Mousavi and PAYS HER RENT,

I certainly don't have a problem with that. Would you please do me a favor and pay mine for a couple of months too? I'm really in a bind right now.  I promise to agree with all your political/social views as instructed too.

khoda omret bedeh

mokhlessim

Exactly, that's the word. INFORMATION. That's ALL she has

to offer. Information.

When a person says "IRI is a democracy" and is challenged and continually ignores the person challenging and then after several weeks finally deigns to reply that she didn't reply becuase the person challenging wasn't worth replying to, no matter what else she says, it's nothing but information.

When a person pronounces loudly and clearly and with gusto that they are specifically PRO-IRI (not as an expediency, not as a means to get from here to there, but PRO-IRI), and on the same thread pronouces equally loudly and with equal relish that they are a complete atheist, no matter what else she says, it's nothing but information.

When a person writes the very first blog the night the 'election results' are announced--the ONLY one that night--and ends it with the sadistic exulatant GLOAT: Let's see tomorrow who the sore losers really are! knowing full well that the majority onsite are shocked and traumatized INCLUDING THE PUBLISHER who came out strongly for Mousavi and PAYS HER RENT, no matter what else she says, it's nothing but information.

When a person RAILS for WEEKS against the green movement and its leaders and their foreign meddlers and how they are TRAITORS to her (atheistic???) beloved IRI, and then posts this blog before the Friday prayers praising Rafsanjani as the 13th Imam, no matter what else she says, it's nothing but information.

And on top of it REDUCES THE WHOLE POST-ELECTION FALLOUT to a question of "manners"--Ahmadinejad has bad manners, Hashemi has better manners...tact...

this person has NOTHING to offer but INFORMATION.

-------------------------

I do not understand how anyone can say this woman has knowledge by any conceivable stretch of the imaginaiton

Jaleho to me is like an old computer with lots of memory that manages to function: it has all the information, it's in there somehow, the INFORMATION always DOES get out.. it's there..

but someitmes..it runs slowly, it makes lots of noises, it flickers, it flashes, it freezes. it prints out strange things, strange codes appear...but somehow or other the INFORMATION always comes out....

Old or new, streamlined or clunky, computers have tons of INFORMATION. But they have NO KNOWLEDGE, let alone wisdom.

Likewise Jaleho. A fount of...INFORMATION.

--------------

as for intelligence, well..you tell me..computers ARE said to have intelligence.but it isn't HUMAN intelligence. And for me,  that's just...information. Dangerous information.

nakhair shazde, va baleh

jaleho nafaht nist, vali bishtare biroon marzi haara nafahm hesaab mikoneh.

she may have much to offer in terms of political information, however her hostile bitter style detracts from her good. and that is too bad.