Secular Democracy for Iran

.......

Hi! Khar,

     I had last Summer off (2009), so I watched and read a lot of post-election protests on TV and on-line. I recall during that turbulent period, high-profile mullahs led Friday (Jameh) prayer one by one: Jannati, Ahmad Khatami, and Khamanei......I noticed that these mullahs added their own spins on Quran during their sermons.......their views are that if you protest against IRI, you are against Allah, then you are a Mohareb, then you should be executed in the name of God!

     Of course, in this country, the regilious sector has its share of scandals and the weird stuff also....once a while, you will hear megachurch pastors fall from grace being entangled in sex scandal or financial scandal......some of the evangelists live a double-life......some of them are homosexual.....but the bottom line is that the scandal causes embarrassment, but not human lives.....not like Iran, the mullahs can throw you into jail or even end your life if they call you a mohareb!

Hi! Gir,

     Religion is a very touchy subject.....I think I better be quiet...otherwise, I will make a lot of gaffes......please don't worry about the word "bullies".......IRI are bullies.........everyone else is cool!

  Hopefully Iran becomes better!

Hi Yolanda,

Yes, Islamic practice in Iran must be merciful or it is not Islamic and you are quite right.

Also this thread has shown me that the respect that I once had for the so called 'open minded' characters is now faded. This is not to say that there are no open minded people out there. I believe that an open minded person would not sum up all 'pious' as bullys. That is a clear sign of a narrow minded person. Correct?

I think that they use this 'open minded' label to push their own point accross with lies and perversions. They are not really open minded, they just have a different view of things and they use any means to push that forward.  IRI lies and they lie too. Two wrongs does not make it right.

Yolanda Jaan

I agree 100%, and if I may add religion in general is a tool to control the people, and "pious" will bully and destroy anyone who question their "holy" authority as if they own the human lives.  

Thank you for bringing substance to this debate.

“All religions are founded on the fear of the many and the cleverness of the few.”

......

Hi! Khar,

     I am sorry that your blog has digressed to a different topic......personally I am not against Islam.......but I do feel the IRI uses religion to control her people and perpetuate her iron-fist ruling.....women are definitely oppressed over there..I have no doubt about that......there are 57 Islamic countries......but Iran does more cruel stuff and executes more people than other Islamic countries like Malaysia or Indonesia. Sorry for the digression.

**********************

Hi! Monda,

    3/4 years ago......I went to a University open house...it was fun.....there were many booths...so I bought a Navajo fry bread from a booth set up by Native American student association......I also bought baklava from Muslim student association's booth......besides selling baklavas, they also gave Qurans away for free......so I got a copy......I feel that Quran is very explicit while Bible is more implicit.....I am not sure if mullahs are flexible or they implement every word from Quran...

********************

Hi! Gir,

    I do have respect for Muslims or people with religions or without religion.....but I am not fond of IRI........there is no reason for me to hate Muslims......absolutely no reason......just remember that Muslim people in Iran took to the street to protest IRI's injustice 'cause they can't take the oppression and deception anymore.....

Sharia law is pretty cruel.....I just read this today. I wonder if they can practice Islam without doing the cruel stuff and do something truly compassionate and merciful: release all the political prisoners including Majid Tavakoli! 

Khar

I am a thug now? I don't know why you enjoy so much to be a pervert?! Does it give you a boost of self satisfaction or what?

First of all I didn't know about this Ahmad Kasravi, but now that I know about him I can say that I disagree with some of his ideas but agree with some of his other ideas.

I like his idea of praising the start of Islam under the prophet Mohammad as PURE, but don't like his blind hate of 'religions' in Iran like his hate of Islam, Bahaies, Sufies and others.

So If this guy seems to have at least liked the original Islam and you think of Islam as satanic, then YOU might be the one to procecute or kill him yourself not me!

Thanks Ebi Jaan your 2 cents worth a million aziz!

“All religions are founded on the fear of the many and the cleverness of the few.”

"kharGIR" you're still spelling it wrong

it’s ProSecuted not "ProCecuted"! ;-) nice job, I guess the pious thugs like you prosecuted Ahmad Kasravi and thousand of other free thinkers like him throughout Iranian and the Satanic Islamic history by killing and silencing them. 

Prez Jaan,my 2 cents...

گویند کسان بهشت با حور خوش است

من می گویم که آب انگور خوش است

این نقد بگیر و دست از آن نسیه بدار

کاواز دهل شنیدن از دور خوش است

Ebi aka Haaji

Yolanda

You seem to be a bright person and yes IRI has been cruel.

Maybe if enough knowledgable people take my advice, there might be a solution. Quran is the only means of showing what hypocrites the ruling clergy in Iran are. IRI can not deny nor reject Quran. This anti-Islamic crowd only delay things with their emotional illogic and obvious empty headed perverted lies.

......

Yes, I am full of anger towards IRI! I am not the only one here!

IRI makes Islam look pretty bad....looks all those hanging videos from Iran........IRI hangs people in the name of God....of course, I am angry!

Khar & Yolanda

Khar,

The sore spot you hit is your own rear. Procecute means legal action against the lies you are trying to spread here in America and elsewhere, not 'kill'. But of course you already know what I mean by procecute and you are just deviously trying to make another lie and a big thing out of it. Pervert. You seem to be the one who is really angry, emotional and demented. See if you can find any more spelling mistake in this response too. Pathetic. 

Dear Yolanda,

You are too much full of hate and anger. Sometimes I don't blame you. The Moslem Quran does not say all that you wrote in your response for torture, rape, sigheh, stoning, hanging, political prisoners and etc. It's good you read Quran and may have disagreements. But please read other parts that say good and honorable things about women too. After all, it was because of the Quran and the Prophet that forced the ANTI-ISLAMIC crowd to stop BURYING THEIR DAUGHTERS ALIVE! (At-Takwir: 8,9 "When the female (infant), buried alive, (it) is questioned ... For what crime she was killed").  If you lived at the time of the Prophet, would you agree with Quran's "satanic verse", as Khar thinks of it, or the anti-Moslem crowd?

But this is not going to help the people you try to help in Iran, does it? Sorry you are upset. Read more of Quran and you will find that there are things in there you will agree with and maybe you could use those against the radical clergy in Iran? So long.

................................................................

.................................................................................................

MM and Farmarz and کلاه مخملی

I read you Aghayoon. mamnoon az deldaari va taalimaat elaahi.

Someone emailed me about the inappropriate humor in this thread! I replied and repeat here: How long can we pretend about its validity? Humor is one of the most civilized Defenses, against such cruel Offense. vassallaam.

Yolanda jan,

Religion Always aims to divide.

I still haven't desensitized to the shocking content. I was told (by my very own uncle/ amoo RIP) that My interpretations were lacking maturity. True, what does an 18 year old really know, about such complex matters?! Even Now, I read the same nonsense in what I have patience to read - remaining Shocked And very disheartened about the future of humanity.

Yolanda jaan

you are very correct, you don't have to look far to find the unholy, unhuman, barbaric and satanic nature of Islamic teachings and laws in Quran.

Thank you for checking out the unholy book and finding the truth about it for yourself.

......

So in order to fight IRI, we have to read Quran 10 times? I thought people are fed up with 30 years of theocracy......it is why they took to the street.....actually you don't need to read Quran to recognize the cruel and weird stuff the IRI does......you only need to have some common-sense.....the Cruel stuff IRI does: stoning, hanging political prisoners, torturing political prisoners, hand amputation, 76 lashes for no hejab etc.....weird stuff sanctioned by IRI: It is ok to have unlimited sighehs for group sex......

If you get on you-tube and key in the word "hanging".......look how many hanging videos are from Iran? IRI loves to have public hangings, so they can have the intended scare effect! Iranian people are great and courageous....they have the respect, admiration, and moral support from people throughout the world.......but IRI regime is absolutely cruel to their own people!

I do have a copy of Quran......I read An-Nisa 4:34......Oh Gosh! That is too much! Hopefully nobody takes that verse literally!

"kharGIR", I think I hit a sore spot! ;-)

You Wrote: "One day they will procecuted (you mean, Killed) for putting out such non-sense (speaking out against the Satanic religion) just as that Dutch loser (a free thinker) Greet Wilders who is being procecuted now. Several years from now Moslems (you mean Islamo-Fascists) will come after all these people with massive law suits (Satanic Sharia Law) to punish them for misinformation (truth about Satanic Verses) that they put out."

I guess you are so angry that you want to hang me as your avatar suggest?!, however, first of all make sure before you bring any lawsuits check your spelling and spell “prosecuted” correctly with an S and not a C! Second, it's in your Islamic DNA to threaten and bully people who speak against your Satanic religion. Since when, you and others like you have become believers in truth and justice? I guess since the raping & killing of girls and boys in your Islamic paradise is Quranic law!.

By the way I did not ask the site moderator to remove your foul-language comments; they know who you really are on their own! You know what? I really believe even Olaaghs like you have a right to speak. 

Khar & company

I am really tempted to call you guys names and redicule you but I think that you are hoping for good but just can't figure out the right way.

If you really don't like IRI and want it replaced with a 'decent' democracy, then you are going the wrong way. You are shooting at a target that can actually help you replace IRI.

You can not replace IRI with force. US is not going to invade Iran and hand it over to you. The running and protesting in the streets is noble but will end up with the death of many and IRI will not be replaced.

The only and only way you people can get your 'secular democracy' is for you all to start reading the real Quran. Read it once, twice or even ten times. Once you understand it, then you can easily confront IRI leaders with all the falsehood that they present. Keep using the good of Quran against them until they can confront you no more. By that time most Iranian people will also be on your side too.

However I have the feeling that, will not happen. Instead, as usual you people will keep attacking the religion of the people of Iran which they do hold sacred. You keep posting funny and silly mistranslations of Quran and etc and etc and etc. This website is full of it. The most that you will get is a small rise out of a couple of simple people who take in all that non-sense.

-Big daddy, Khar Gir

ماندا :)

با این رقمایی که شازده و بقیه اَساتید دادن، ما  آقایون ٢٤ ساعته در بهشت فقط کارمون دادن سرویس به خانماست ... :) !

~~~

Deepak is a bright man with nice speak. It is hard to reconcile his speak with his life style, people he hangs with and clients he serves. Let alone considering him a spiritual example. His 'prophet' status has generated massive 'profit', to paraphrase himself on Colbert. Finding meaning need not be via media and its stars.

Correct pronunciation/spelling of the arabic word/concept Shia/Shi'te with the question of 'are you Iranian' is almost surreal.

OKtaby

You can try to believe enablers of IRI .....

that Islam is a religion of peace, or you can look at the reality in places like Saudi Arabia/Iran or groups like AlQaeda/Taliban where the 7th century Shari'a is practiced to the fullest.  Alternatively, look at the Amnesty International or the UN reports or Iran:

//www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=a%2F65%2F370&Lang=E

//thereport.amnesty.org/

//www.amnesty.org/en/region/iran

These folks who want to convert you will go to great lengths to convience you that Islam is a religion of peace, but a religion of peace can only be possible if there is a strong secular oversight that guarantees human rights and not just the rights of a particular group.

Khar & company

At least we now know where Khar's lecherous translation of Quran came from. Thanks to another of the same type, MM we have the link now.

Yolanda:  I hope that you are not naive to believe what these characters are posting here? If you want to know the correct translation for these so called surah's that they post here, go and get a real Quran translated by a real Moslem from your library or bookstore.

These characters are the same types who would like to incite hate and violence against our poor Moslem brothers and sisters with all their deliberate mis-translations. One day they will procecuted for putting out such non-sense just as that Dutch loser Greet Wilders who is being procecuted now. Several years from now Moslems will come after all these people with massive law suits to punish them for misinformation that they put out.

Khar: Why did you have my response to you removed? I only called you Khar which is your name on this site, isn't it? Pathetic!

I hope that the moderator of this site has the decency to honor my freedom of speech too and not remove my comments!

.....

Thank you, MM, for your post.....I am a layperson to Islam......everything is new and shocking to me!

Monda - if pius, she turns virgin, otherwise, see Faramarz'

In the west, people bask in the idea of joining loved ones after death.  It is very interesting that, in Islam, our spouses are not good enough for us in the after-life anymore.  Apparently, women, if pius, get re-made into virgins to serve the pius/sacrified men, otherwise, off you go downstairs.  The passage below sounds like it says you get united as virgins, but considering that men get 4 wifes (not counting sigheh, etc....), but get 72 virgins in heaven, the math does not workout the best for women!  (//www.likud.nl/extr147.html)

"This means that when the women of this world are old and worn out, Allah creates them [anew] after their old age into virgins who are amiable to their husbands; 'equal in age' means equal to one another in age."  

However, if you are a woman suicide bomber, you can become "chief of the 72 virgins, the fairest of the fair." //www.slate.com/id/2160963/

The discussion on The X-RATED PARADISE OF ISLAM is also very intersting and contains verses where virgins, young boys, wine and wealth (+others) are promised to the pius.

as if...?

we weren't aware?!

Thanks Farmarz for all your time and energy in researching.  Now we can breathe easier.

خانوم ها، حسابی سرتون کلاه رفته!

Monda,

You ask a very good question. So as always, I did some research.

It turns out that for women all the action is downstairs in Hell! So stop being a do-gooder and get out there and live it up!

For those women who still insist on being good, there is unlimited shopping, re-decorating and re-modeling action in Heaven!

Faramarz, so with all the benefits Behesht offers to men

what's in it for Female good-doers? They say behesht zir paaye maadaran... is that it for us?!

Mr. Khar?

Interesting post. I have learned quite a bit from you, SAM, Divaneh and Faramarz on various threads on Islam. Thanks.

By the way: What would women receive in Behesht? if some of us are heterosexual?

Sorry if this is a repeat question to which you may have previously answered.

Deepak Chopra is a popularizer

Who is well known to not walk his talk. He has cashed in on Eastern wisdom and the Rumi explosion like no one else making a career out of it. But whether he knows by direct experience what he is talking about, is an open ended question. I personally don't believe the man does. Yet he should be acknowledged for making this material more widely available to a greater global audience. I don't think it is a good idea to take him as any kind of real guru though. He is certainly not that at all.

On the life after death question: It is possible to experience the Other Side right here, right now while still alive in a body. The problem is that the burdens of proof offered has not so much been shunned by the scientific community  per se but more by interested parties and agendas who wish not to fund certain research that might open the question up to further probing and discussion. Rick Strassman's clinical research into DMT in the early '90s began opening up a huge can of worms in consciousness research and after his initial research ended, no University institution or government has been interested in granting further research money to continue this line of work. This relegates scientists who genuinely wish to probe the matter into the scientific fringe or into the arms of private foundations who have agendas beyond just research. Unfortunately the New Age industry and the religious mainstream both discredit the general  discussion for further investigation. But that this is the situation does not invalidate either the question or the discussions around it.

Yes, the concept of heaven and hell, not to mention the Divine and its dark antagonist, is thoroughly Iranian in origin.

-

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9

wiki answers: Zoroastrianism as origin of heaven/hell

//wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_did_heaven_and_hell_teaching_originate

The idea of heaven and hell came from the Zoroastrian religion.

In 586 BCE, Judah was annexed by Babylonia and many of its people deported to Babylon, with no expectation of ever being able to return. However, the Persians under Cyrus the Great conquered Babylon soon afterwards and allowed those Jews who wished to return to Judah to do so. He even promised them funds from the royal treasury for the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Temple. As a result of this kindness and generosity, Cyrus is treated with almost divine regard in the Book of Isaiah:

Verse 44:28: "That saith of Cyrus. He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure; even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid." Verse 45:1: "Thus saith the Lord to his appointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden ..." Verse 45:4: "For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel my elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee even though thou has not known me."

The Jews had a high regard for the Persians, so it is natural that they would have been receptive to ideas from the Persian religion, Zoroastrianism. We also know that the Persian eunuch Nehemiah and the priest Ezra were sent by the Persian kings to Judah supposedly to teach the Jews about their own religion.

Heaven and hell, as places of reward and punishment, had always been part of Zoroastrian belief. However, prior to the Babylonian Exile, the Hebrews did not believe in heaven and hell. Even in the post-exilic period, not everyone accepted the concepts of immortality, as shown by Ecclesiastes 9:5: 'For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten'. Even as late as the first century CE, the Sadducee sect of Judaism did not accept the concept of heaven and hell.