Iranian Liberal Democrat

Monarch is defender of faith by constitution

What a rubbish!

Utter rubbish. Shah would not kiss god's hands if he existed.

Come come fellows, which one is worse?

Dear Masoud!

Thanks Masoud:

Very informative and thought inspiring article!

What we have here is a bunch of professional HUSTELERS whose skill is just that…as we have seen here. They have nothing else that they do or can do.   Their means of support/income is either funded by the Mullahs, or the Pahlavi EMBEZZELED LOOT or other interested countries, since, they seem to be well organized and well financed.

I do not believe that these folks would stop any time soon, simply because they do not want their livelihood/income interrupted…they don’t seem to possess any other skill or profession they can depend on…they are HUSTELERS, like Shaban-Bi-Mokh and OTHERS.  On the other hand we should NEVER compromise with either group, Shahollahis/Hezbollahis, as we didn’t when we were one of the first anti Shah groups of students in the US.  Although, our efforts eventually paid off, our revolution was hijacked.  Main Reason may have been the systematic murder and destruction of the competent and able members of the opposition by SAVAK, and also the chaotic convulsion that had ensued, like other revolutions.

Today, I am sure, that our people have learned their lesson, both inside Iran and out.  

چندتا نوشابه برای اپوزیسون وا کنید

آخه عزیز دل برادر مورچه (اسرائیل) چیه؟ که تدارک چی( اپوزیسون) آن باشد!!!

I wear an Omega watch

marhaba

Roozbeh khan

well said thank you.

Maziar

Dear P_J

Dear P_J,

Thank you for your excellent posts. 

I wish there was a way to make the monarchists  stop attacking other opposition forces. 

If the monarchists stopped attacking us, and instead concentrated their attacks on the vf regiem, we will be very very glad to ignore them.

Best,

Masoud

Roozbeh jaan

Roozbeh jaan,

I agree with you 100%.

Best,

Masoud

"The IRI is using the Monarchists against us"

Very well said dear Masoud.

The real objective here is to shift focus from IRI crimes to circular debates on subjects whichare  really proven beyond doubt, like oil nationalisation.  Let me give you another example:

The collaboration of SAVAK with the Hojjatieh cult, one of whose bastard sons is non other than Ahmadinezhad is very well documented and beyond debate. So is the hatred of Hojjatieh society members towards our Jewish and Bahai compatriots, as well as socialists and true nationalists. So when I hear a Bahaai hating , Jew hating person attack SAVAK's crime, I'd say; "khar khodeti" you bastard sevant of Islamic SAVAK.

Bottom line is Dear Masoud, we dont have to prove anything about SAVAK's crimes, or Pahlavi's part in bringing our country to where it is today. it is all proven and documented, as far as the vast majority of Iranian youth back home are concerned. I and people like me remain focused on the Fascist regime. We know the regime's time is over. We know it needs a push to collapse on itself, and by "god", we believe the push will be delivered by Iranian people, in not so distant future, regardless of the outcome of this  diversionary nuke thing with Israel and US.    

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Dear Robert Borden!

I quite agree with you, when you talk about IDLE worshiping!   Unfortunately that is a part of our culture, and further more we are GUN SHY, because of what has happened in the past!  

We are a nation that has been ROBBED and AGRESSED on, for over 300+ years.   Iran that once was one of the major centers of art, poetry, literature and science, and more, suddenly, and because of the incompetence of some and treason of the others sank to the bottom.   It was people like Amir Kabir or Mossadegh that tried to restore our dignity and self-respect.   One was stopped by an incompetent ruler called Nasser-e-din Shah, and the other by a traitor like Mohammad Reza Pahlavi.

These are facts on the ground that we should learn from and remember!   Yet, we should MOVE ON and unstuck ourselves from the past and stop living in it.   These are all complex issues and we can’t decide anything from 10,000 miles away…it is up to the younger educated generation to do so, and I am sure that they will…sooner or later!  

I Like Aynak's Observation

I believe that aynak made accurate observations.   I also believe that, these attacks are not accidental.  They seem to be well funded and orchestrated from some organization(s) or entities.

Masoud comments were right on target, while backing them up with positive proof.

In comparison; the Shahollahis/Hazbolahis crowd, had/has no leg to stand on.   They know that restoration of Monarchy is nothing but a foolish pipe dream, but since most of them are paid HUSTELERS, they have to keep this CHARADE going, in order to get paid by these nefarious entities.

They also think that they can rewrite history.   Pahlavi regime killed and betrayed for 37 years 33 years ago…brought us traitors like Zahedi, Kashani, Baghaie, Shaban-Bi-Mokh, SAVAK and the 53 coup.   The other one is doing all that and more today.   The two groups are loaded; one from the embezzled Pahlavi loot, and the other by Mullahs.   But, basically they are ONE and the same.

Conversely, Dr. Mossadegh brought us FREEDOM, DEMOCROCY, PRIDE, DIGNITY, and SOVERIGNITY.   With all his illness and age he fought like a lion and won, while Pahlavi had to resort to the highest level of subservience to the British and the Americans and eventually even these MASTERS did not allow him entry to their country.   RESPONSE to a TRAITOR, INDEED!

What these people do not realize is that in 1953 only, one out of a thousand had a high school education.   Today 7%-8% of the population holds university degrees, from which some 57% are women.   That makes me OPTIMISIC! 

Dear P_J

I believe in the exchange of ideas.  But just look at this exchange: Everyone either agrees with the EXACT same talking points or he/she is a regime agent or a monarchist.  This is not a healthy exchange of ideas.  No one here is interested in the truth no matter what Dr. Kazemzadeh or his admirers say.  Everyone is interested in scoring points and reinforcing their own sense of self-righteousness.  I myself may be guilty of it when reacting to Kazemzadeh.  That is partly because I can't believe a legitimate academic (which he is) can behave this way.  This is crude propaganda and spin.  There is no context or analysis.  There is no reasoning.  One guy says the Shah didn't kiss Kashani's hand and the other says he did too.  So what?!! And these are our liberals and democrats from the JM.  Knowing your history is fine.  Obsessing over one person has relegated JM to the fringes as a Mossadegh fan club instead when it can be a force behind developing an Iranian liberal democracy.  The only thing I can hope for is that maybe the next generation (people now in their 20s) can get over all of this when we are all dead and get on with building a free Iran.

It doesn't matter who kissed whose what before 1979!

What matters most is that the members of all parties including left, center, right, Jebh'e Melli including Mr. Masoud Rajavi, Dr. Kianoori, Mr. Bazargan, Dr. Sahabi, Dr. Sanjabi, Dr. Sohaili, Dr. Foroohar, and the rest of the rebels without a cause all lined up to kiss Khomeini's hands, feet, @$$, and the rest of his body parts after the 1979 devolution! How do you like them apples!

Dr. Love, Ph.D., M.D., J.D., Iran Loves Israel and you can't do anything about it.

Ali jaan

Ali P.: We all have seen the picture of 70 year old, Dr. Mossadegh, kissing the young Shah's hand. So what? No one takes that as a sign of servitude of Dr. Mossadegh to the Shah! Should we??

I don't believe the Shah, or his father, as the King, ever kissed anyone's hand. That's not what Shahs do!

=================

MK: Ali jaan,

I have NOT seen any photo of Dr. Mossadegh kissing the Shah’s hands. Nokar did a search and FAILED to produce such a photo. If such a photo ever existed, I am certain that the Hezbollahis and the Shahollahis would have posted them a zillion times by now. No such photo exists because Dr. Mossadegh never kissed the Shah’s hands.

I just posted a scholarly article that shows that the Shah kissed Kashani’s hands. The report is from the Iraqi AMBASSADOR to Iran. In September 1953, Iraq was a de facto colonial possession of the UK. It was the very first week after the Shah returned from Rome. The Shah had escaped Iran and gone to Iraq and then to Italy. So, in all likelihood, the Iraqi ambassador was in the room as the Shah and Zahedi go visit Kashani and kiss his hands. The Iraqi ambassador dutifully reports what he observes to his British boss. Then the British dude sends the report to the Foreign Office in London. And in archival research, Professor Gasiorowski finds the document and quotes it in his seminal article on the 1953 coup.

I base my opinions on scholarly publications or direct personal observations. I have NOT seen a photo of Dr. Mossadegh kissing the Shah’s hands. I have read that in secret official British documents they state that the Shah kissed Ayatollah Kashani’s hands.

You could believe whatever you so desire.

Best regards,

Masoud

P.S. I have no problems with those poor folks who HAD to bend over and kiss the Shah's hands because they had to. 

IRI Using Monarchists as Useful Idiots

Dear Aynak,

1. I do not think that Pirooz Mojtahedzadeh’s weird attack on Dr. Mossadegh and JM were solely on his own initiative. He was a gong ho Shahollahi when he was in the UK. Then, he went back to Iran and was given good university position. The regime does not simply do that. In all likelihood, he apologized to the IRI and agreed to help them when they ask for it. My guess is that Mojtahedzadeh first sent his article (which supports Ardeshir Zahedi and MirFetroos) to the Ministry of Intelligence for approval or ok, before publishing it. Or maybe, the IRI’s MOI asked him to write an attack article on Mossadegh and JM.

2. There was a piece in Khabar online by Mojtahedzadeh. Khanar online is affiliated with Ali Larijani. Khabar online does not out of the blue allow a former Shahollahi have so much prominent space to make attacks on other forces (i.e. Mossadegh and JM).

3. Last week, the IRI’s Ministry of Intelligence AGAIN faked our organization with two fake elamieh of INF-OA. Here is our statement condemning the dirty tricks by the IRI’s MOI.

//www.iranazad.info/jebhehkharej/jkh12/04/04jaal.htm

This is not the first time MOI has made fake elamieh of our organization. They have done this several times. Usually, a little before something major is going to occur.

4. There have been increased surveillance and repression of JM members in Iran in the past several months. About 2 dozen of our members have been arrested. Peyman Aref was again taken to prison, and threatened.

Almost all of our top leaders are under 24/7 surveillance. They report increased harassments in the past 4 months, especially in the past 2 weeks.

5. Monarchists’ reaction to the name Mossadegh and JM has reached the Pavlovian stage. As soon as monarchist hears or reads the name Mossadegh, they foam in the mouth and begin barking. No amount of logic, evidence, scholarship has any effect. It is simply like Pavlov’s experiment with the dog.

My writing here is not intended to change the behavior of the monarchists. The views of the monarchists is not based on evidence, or logic. The views of the monarchists are based on FINANCIAL and POWER interests. They benefitted from the former tyranny. They simply want money and power. They views are based on distorting the truth, oppressing those who tell the truth. They killed, jailed, and tortured those who opposed them. They want to do the same if they could. My exposing the monarchists is intended for the silent readers. The monarchists hope that the Iranian people would be suffering historical amnesia. The role of responsible democratic intellectuals (roshanfekran masool azadikhah) is to speak the truth as best they could.

In conclusion, INF has been greatly strengthen in recent times. Unfortunately, there are some problems with JM inside Iran. The leaders of JM are trying to get rid of the bad individuals. Historically, the social base of JM was huge, but our main problem was our weak organization. The IRI is terribly worried and scared that with the strengthening of our organization and the many new members, JM and INF-OA have the best potential to mobilize the masses in the forthcoming period.

The IRI is using the monarchists against us. This is how politics is. The monarchists are useful idiots. This is how I see the situation. There is no way whatsoever that monarchy will return to Iran. Iran’s best hope and the most likely alternative to the IRI is the democratic secular republic. Monarchist’s only role is to be a spoiler.

Best,

Masoud

The truth does not matter to these folks

Plane and simple.   Dear Masoud, don't you see what is going on here?   One week we have Sabeti coming out of snake hole, one week we have the entire oil nationalization questioned, and basically the trend is an almost laughbule attempt to reverse the history.

The entire Islamic Regime's beef with Mossadegh is this:

Mossadegh was not going to allow mixing politics with the fanaticism, and since in --oil nationaliaztion-- all Iranians particiipated including the clerics (or it would have called their lie and shown their true opposition is not with Estemaar but with modernity of any sort).

As you can see some of these posters, (particularly the bastard child of Rashyydian brothers and the Brititsh intelligience) are just obssessed with Mossadadegh, to the point of sickness.

When friends of Shah describe him as weak (look at the whol July 20-27 history and CIA notes), and enemies of Mossadegh call him anything but weak in fighting for Iranian peoples right, the real issue becomes a different matter:

To really distract to focus on --solved-- and --known-- facts of the past instead of --unresolved-- and yet to be addressed issue of present.  Mossadegh would kiss the hand of anyone if Iranian people's right and ambitions were granted, and that is not the question either way.

The biggest revelation is the reaction of this so called seekers of unity , who disguess themselves as pro-left, pro-salatant pro .... but whenever it comes to basic prinicples of human rights, like unequivicoal condemnation of torture, they become mute.

Since Mossadegh is known quantity in our history, and as importat is dead, and even more important no one that I know of claims a right to inherit Mossadegh's power, we need to question what are the purpose of those posts that:

1-Do not provide a new  vision for Iran

2-Try to distort  the history of the mere 3 years that is argubaly the proudest of our nation, to show an upside down picture that no one subscribes to (including the coup masters and they are on record at least taking responsibility for their wrong doing) except these great researches like Mirfetroos whose accomplishemnt already were enumerated and is a waste of time to further discuss.

3-29th of Esfands the thorn in the eyses of Islamic regime that in 33 years has not done a --single-- thing to help Iranian people, but have always hated these days with a passion.

___

I find it curious that on days that detail of discussion between various factions of Islamic Regime with U.S  surfaces and also ex-regime insiders reveal so much on the brutality of Khamaneh-ee,  the focus suddenly becomes Mossadeghs "misdeads"?

This is pure nonsense! Everyone including Dr. Mosadeq kissed

the late Shah's hand!

The extent to which some folks like to distort the truth is mind boggling!

God bless the late Shah since if it were not for him you would be wearing bedsheet and riding a donkey!

To Robert Borden

I agree that we should move on….but how we can forget the past.   And whether we should forget and be oblivious about it without any lessons learned.

Masoud’s writing is about reminding us the mistakes that we made, both as a people and as a nation, for not fully supporting our patriots and allowing traitors like Shah or Kashani to change our history and ultimately our future, and as a result of that we have millions of Iranian living in diaspora today.   We do not want that same mistakes repeated.

As for hand kissing; a leader of a country does not kiss any ones hand, a lesson that we learned from JFK visiting the Pope.   Logic behind that is the separation of church and state and the fact that there is/was no State religion in the US and should not be, anywhere else, in my opinion!

Therefore I applaud Masoud for his stance and have not found him cranky, also understand and appreciate your side, and that is all it should be “EXCHANGE OF IDEAS AND OPIONS” the corner stone of freedom, democracy and PLURALISM!    

Dear Masoud Kazemzadeh

Prof. 
Gasiorowski is an acknowledged expert but that doesn't mean we'll have to accept everything he says.  The source you pointed to quoted a British diplo cable quoting an Iraqi diplomat.  That chain is the very definition of hearsay.  On top of that diplo cables are notoriiously bad 'evidence' because they are mostly based on snapshot impressions or incomplete information.  You have to compare the information in a diplomatic cable with at least a few more sources before passing judgment.

Your two outbursts to my responses show exactly how much of a democrat you are.  I have no idea why you decided I was a monarchist.  I think the Shah was a dictator and firmly believe that the return of the monarchy is a pipedream.  I also happen to believe that Mossadegh was a patriot with a few flaws as a politician.  

I think you lot (by that I mean all the fanatical followers of one person or another) who get this angry when you think the name of your beloved leader is sullied (the Shah, Khomeini, Mossadegh, Rajavi) are all poisonous to the process of Iran's political development.  Just look at the messages you exchange here:  Anyone who disagrees with you is a shahollahi or Hizbollahi. The rest of the messages reinforce your own biases and therefore are supposedly from your fellow democrats.

I used to think if our fathers died and we purged our polity from all who were present during the reign of the Pahlavis (including leftists and Mossadeghis and Pahlavists) we'd have a chance.  Now I firmly believe your generation (and mine) have to die off too before Iran can move on.

But I have to repeat man:  Let go of the anger.  Ten years from now it'll turn you into a joke.   The cranky old Mossadeghi who spits poison when anyone mentions the Pahlavis.  Stop living in 50 years ago.

Does it really matter?

When the President of the United States enters the room, you stand up; be it George Bush, or Obama. It doesn't mean you LIKE him personally. It merely means you respect the office he represents.

You meet the Emperor of Japan, you bow to him:

//abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2009/11/on-pr...

Kissing hand is an Iranian custom.

You may kiss the hand of the Pope, as he represents the Catholic Church, or any ayatollah, if you perceive them representing Islam.

We all have seen the picture of 70 year old, Dr. Mossadegh, kissing the young Shah's hand. So what? No one takes that as a sign of servitude of Dr. Mossadegh to the Shah! Should we??

I don't believe the Shah, or his father, as the King, ever kissed anyone's hand. That's not what Shahs do!

The same goes for an old Ayatollah Kashani. I can't imagine him kissing anyone's hand. That's not what ayatollahs do!

(But even if they did...so what?)

Masoud jaan:

 Give me a break. This is gossip. We expect more of you my Friend.

Yours,

Ali P.

Thank you, aryo barzan

For vindicating my assertion that Nokar of UK, Shahollahis, and so-called constitutional monarchists are peas in the same pod (and no real difference among them).

:-)

Truth vs. LIES

Robert,

You are clueless. This is in response to what Nokar wrote in this blog:

//iranian.com/main/blog/arj/sabeti-savak-and-torture

Nokar wrote: "But unlilke Mossadegh he [the Shah] did not kiss Kasahni's arse by closing down the mixed schools. banning the sale of alcoholic spirits and to overrule the secular ministry of Justice by passing a law to free the Islamic terrorists - all these to please Kashani. Not to mention the release of Bahai killers from courts to satisfy Borujerdi."

Nokar has written several LIES. My post was showing that in ACTUAL REALITY (and not metaphorically) that Shah kissed kashani’s hands. I also add other evidence on Nokar’s other LIES. For example, in actual FACT, it was the Shah who did not put in prison Navab Safavi. And in ACTUAL FACT, it was Mossadegh who put Navab Safavi in prison for 22 month for his 2 year sentence.

The same with the assassination of Razmara. The Shah ordered the murder of Gen. Razmara, Kashani and the Shah support the Majles vote to release Tahmasebi, and Mossadegh opposes his release.

Nokar keeps LYING and LYING and LYING. I put actual historical evidence published by SCHOLARS in scholarly books and articles.  What is precious, that Nokar posts photos that in actual fact undermine his original LIES.

YOU, Robert, are clueless. The source is Professor Mark Gasiorowski, and Full Prof. At LSU, and the article is published by IJMES (the flagship publication of MESA). I simply quoted from a reputable scholar, from a reputable publication.

YOUR fanatical extremist monarchists politics have clouded your judgment.  Monarchists have a problem with the truth and facts.

Masoud

Exposing Nokar's LIES

Nokar Englis,

LIE 1: The photo shows Mossadegh shaking hands with Kashani. Kashani is kissing Mossadegh’s head. (Interesting that Nokar Englis uses an Islamic Fundamentalist source).

LIE 2: Har gerdi, gerdo nist. The photo shows Mossadegh kissing Soraya’s hand. Dr. Mossadegh was a gentleman. A man kissing a woman’s hand is NOT a sign of subservience. In the 1940s, Iranian middle and upper classes had adopted European custom of males kissing females hands. Many Iranian men still do this.

Islamic fundamentalists consider this as bad on religious grounds. What is interesting is that Nokar Englis does understand the political message that the fundamentalist site wants to convey with the photo. The title of the fundamentalist article is the following:

مصدق با ايستادن مقابل آیت الله کاشانی حكم سقوط خود را امضا كرد  

Now this is precious. Nokar posts a photo from an extremist fundamentalist terrorist group, showing Mossadegh SHAKING hands with the Shah!!!!!!!!!!   The MONARCHISTS KISS the hands and feets of the Shah.  And Mossadegh does the protocol of shaking hands with the Shah.  No kissing of the fascisit tyrant's hands or feet.  The fundamentalist terrorists post this photo and the title is that Mossadegh put in prison, their terrorist leader Navab Safavi.  Now this is the precious part.  The Shah did NOT put Navab in prison despite the FACT that the court has sentences him to 2 years prison.  Mossadegh does in fact arrest and puts in priosn Navab.

In conclusion, Nokar's post is precious.  He uses Islamic fundamentalist sites that use photos of Mossadegh to attack Mossadegh.  The context actually, undermine Nokar's points.  In actual fact, Mossadegh fought against both fascisitc monarchists and Islamic fundamentalist terrorists, as well as for Iran's independence from British colonial subjugation of Iran.  And this is precisely WHY Nokar, Islamic fundamentlaist terrorists, and monarchists hate Iranian democrats, Mossadegh, and JM.

I rest my case,

Masoud

well done anglophile!

You are great man

excelent sence of humer too!

keep up the good work

Nice academic research

I really have to visit the college that employs you dude.  An academic who thinks a second hand account of a story in diplomatic cable is proof positive for something and yet remains employed is the best argument for why we should get rid of tenure.  Even if the Shah did kiss his hand...so what?  Maybe the tmes required that gesture.  I know there's a brain there somewhere and your picture doesn't look like you're over 75.  Mossadegh is dead, JM has proven over and over again it doesn't have a solid popular base and cannot hold on to powe.  The Shah is dead too.  Let go of the anger man.  You've already turned into the mirror image of the people you call Shahollahi.  Imagine what you'd be like 15 years from now when age will make you even crankier.

بازم دروغ؟آخه مسعود جون یه چیزی بگو که بگنجه!

اولا که اول کسی‌ که دست 
کاشانی  رو بوسید امام خودت مصدق بود:

//rasekhoon.net/article/show-89191.aspx 

دوما مصدق در دست بوسی سابقه طولانی داشت:

//farmande-man.blogfa.com/

//revolution.shirazu.ac.ir/?p=14333

سوماً که 
کاشانی رو شاه بازداشت کرد انداختش بغل امام مصدق توی لشکر دو زرهی.

//fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%B3%DB%8C%D8%AF_%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82%D8%A7%D8%B3%D9%85_%DA%A9%D8%A7%D8%B4%D8%A7%D9%86%DB%8C#.D8.AF.D8.B3.D8.AA.DA.AF.DB.8C.D8.B1.DB.8C_.D8.A2.DB.8C.D8.AA_.D8.A7.D9.84.D9.84.D9.87_.DA.A9.D8.A7.D8.B4.D8.A7.D9.86.DB.8C

این قدر پشت سر اینو و اون مثل گازاریوسکی قائم نشو. یه چیزی اوریژینال بگو.

امضا: نوکر انگلیسا