Iranian Liberal Democrat

Divaneh Jan

Let's not forget...

... the "sock puppets". These are typically people who pose as following a certain line, whereas they actually do everything to trash that same line (or another under the cover of something they're not). A good example of that on this site are (I think) some of the shahollahis who, if trying to promote monarchy, are doing a very bad job of it, to say the least.

I used to think this whole "spying"/propaganda warfare on Internet forums is just a load of you know what, until I found out on a famous photography forum that different companies actually have marketing people posing as regular users, promoting various brands (and thrashing others)! It's a wild world out there...

Another case in point was two years ago when someone on this site here was asking me all sorts of questions about my affiliation and activities. Turned out it was someone I knew who got jailed and who had been either forced or somehow "led" into asking me those questions; and that, we found out through his dossier later on.

So Masoud definitely has a point there, whether he initially joked around about the subject or not.

+1 to VPK

100% agree with you VPK; the other thing to look out for is bullying tactics - where people try to badger you into endorsing their position or using reverse psychology.   ---------    by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Tue Aug 23, 2011 02:47 PM PDT

want to express my utmost gratitude to you for your solidarity in our common struggle against pro-NIAC posters and pro-vf regime posters.

So now NIAC suddenly becomes what the struggle is about?? All forces against NIAC! Where is the proof that NIAC is pro VF? Anyone who wants to "struggle" against NIAC: be my guest. It is funny instead of working for an inclusive democracy the self declared "pro democracy" forces are struggling against NIAC. Why: because NIAC dared take on MEK. Go for it! 

The more "pro democracy" movement speaks the more they reveal their real agenda. Their lack of tolerance of dissent is very much in line with MEK. No wonder they are on the same page (in my opinion).

vpk khan

take it easy

don't loose it

its just a teasin turned seriouse for some.

here is a joke for you:

the guy returns from a long American vacation talking with friends

Some one (that been there many times) asks him khoob begu sue ham kardi ? (suit)

he replies areh baba yeki tu kalifornia yeki tu mishigaan 2 tan tu tekzas vali esmesh yadam raft.

Maziar

Lol Samsam

Thanks for letting me live. I didn't know you had such marvellous plans or I would have voted you president last time. As for myself, now that you have been kind, make me the ruler of one of the satraps, for example Saard. I will make sure to send you the fattest rams, the most aromatic incense, and the most beautiful women. I also undertake to carve I AM AN ARIAN on your tomb.

So, after 158 back&forths on this thread can we tell who is who?

By the way, VPK, you are the king of pontification, no offense intended!

Thanks Masoud for your comment

thanks for explaining why you wrote the blog. I have not followed your exchanges with VPK closely. Personally, I don't find VPK to be a loose canon. As far as people insulting you, you are correct. I have seen some of the insults myself but I don't remember who actually insulted you.

Even though we have our differences, I appreciate that you are a tireless champion against terrorist regime of IRI.

Dear Admin

This "libel" stuff is going to have to end here and now.

• We are either voicing opinion as I always do. For the record: all my posts are opinions and I do not claim them to be facts. Therefore by American law there is no libel since we are allowed opinion.
• We are voicing facts which I admit I do not. In that case people should back it up with proof and it may be libel.

I do not want to see IC involved in law suites. I have never sued anyone in my life. Nor do I intend to for the record. I had several chances in cases not in any way related to IC or Iran. In all those cases I chose not to go the legal route.

If anyone is threatening law suites I suggest IC be aware of the risks. That is going to be trouble and costly. This kind of talk is intended to frighten people into silence. Are we going to have an open forum or not.

Please provide guidance for us. JJ I request that you provide some guidance regarding what you consider libel and what is not. Perhaps a statement written by an IC attorney would be helpful.

Truthseeker

Dear Truthseeker,

Thank you.

Masoud

Anahid

Anahid,

There were several purposes for writing this blog. This was also a snapshot, of what my opinion of various posters is now. During debates people change, if they have an open mind, are presented with documents they were not aware of, or arguments which are logical. People change and evolve as they grow. If a person has closed mind, then no matter what document or logical argument is presented, he or she would not change. There are today people who believe the earth is flat.

People do change. For example, in INF, we have members who used to be supporters of monarchy, NAMIR, Fadaian, and reformists. During one’s youth, many hold more extreme views and as they gain more experience, they gradually become more moderate.

Another purpose of this blog was to get back at some people.  For example, VKP had written at least 20 posts libeling me (after I repeatedly told his what he wrote was an absolute LIE), insulting me and attacking me and I had ignored his posts for some time (perhaps a week or so). Either one should turn the other cheek again and again for more than 20 times or respond someway. No amount of logic and document worked with VPK. I decided to write this blog and put him under "loose canon." I think it is both funny and accurate. This is my way of responding.

What do YOU think. When someone repeatedly LIES about me and insults me. What should I do? Could you give me a number of times, I have to turn the other cheek and ignore such a person?

Masoud

P.S. You and I usually do not agree with each other, which is fine.  People come from different (and sometimes opposed) ideologies and politics and these remain for long time. 

Dear Rea

Thanks for the greetings. I promise not to shoot at you :-) My canon is a digital one: //shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servle...

From an accidental tourist

2 cents blog.

5 cents to those who take it seriously.

PS. greets to my fav "loose canon". ;o)

Re: Solidarity

want to express my utmost gratitude to you for your solidarity in our common struggle against pro-NIAC posters and pro-vf regime posters.

So now NIAC suddenly becomes what the struggle is about?? All forces against NIAC! Where is the proof that NIAC is pro VF? Anyone who wants to "struggle" against NIAC: be my guest. It is funny instead of working for an inclusive democracy the self declared "pro democracy" forces are struggling against NIAC. Why: because NIAC dared take on MEK. Go for it! 

The more "pro democracy" movement speaks the more they reveal their real agenda. Their lack of tolerance of dissent is very much in line with MEK. No wonder they are on the same page (in my opinion).

Stand Corrected

Dear hirre,

My apologies. My bad. You are Independent.

Best,

MK

Roozbeh jaan, Thank YOU

Roozbeh jaan,

I want to express my utmost gratitude to you for your solidarity in our common struggle against pro-NIAC posters and pro-vf regime posters.

Best regards,

Masoud

Thank you Mash Ghasem

Mash Ghasem jaan,

Thanks for the articles. Of course, the IRI Ministry of Intelligence has sent its agents to the West to infiltrate various opposition groups, media, and the like. Some time ago (past year or two), the vf regime officially announced that they have formed Basij Cyber Army in order to fight against the opposition figures on internet sites. This site is probably the largest site of its kind and I could not imagine that the IRGC, Basij Cyber Army and the MOI do not have agents on this site whose job is to propagate the views of the regime and attack the opposition groups and posters (pro-democracy, socialist, monarchists, independents). Their propaganda talking point is that the VF regime is legitimate, the vast majority of the Iranian people support this regime, that the opposition are nim darsadi, and that all the opposition groups are traitors.

It is their job to attack us and help the terrorist regime. It is our job to fight them back.

Now, who is actually merely a supporter of the terrorist regime, has some connections to the terrorist regime, or actual agent of MOI, IRGC, Basij or other coercive apparatuses is a matter of opinion, conjecture, and guess.

On the list in my blog, it was part opinion, and part teasing. For example, for AmirParvizFor Secular Monarchy, I was mostly joking. If I had to put numbers on it, my guess is that 99% he is a monarchist and only 1% likelihood that he is an agent of MOI or IRGC pretending to be a monarchist. However, most of his posts harm the monarchists cause and help the vf regime; thus the humor.

On Marhoum Kharmagas, I would guess that 80% he is an actual agent, 10% he is a strong supporter of vf regime but not an actual agent, and 10% likelihood that he is a weird poster.

One day they attack the pro-democracy posters, another day the socialists, another day the monarchists, another day the independents. Despite the differences among us, I think we have stand together against those who support the vf regime.

Best,

Masoud

Dear Reality Bites

I figured it was obvious so I did not bother with it 

VPK jaan

I think you got me wrong or I didn't explain myself properly. I'm fully aware of your stance. 

I was under the impression that, in responding to MK's categorization, you were stating for the record where you stood (especially for those who don't know/new to the site) with regard to the various organizations and leaving out the IR was just an oversight. After all, many here are complaining that MK's categorizations are misrepresenting their positions.

If that wasn't the case, then it's my bad.

Dear Anahid

Thank you for reminding me: yes I also support Iran Secular.

Reality Bites

If you don't know by now that I oppose IRI then you are not reading IC. So for all you who have been sleeping "I oppose IRI". Is that good enough? Now I suggest you read my posts so you don't have to ask silly questions again.

Oh no, this one is now giving VPK a litmus test ...

It's very clear that there are group of posters on Iranian.com that persistently attempt to get people to support their views (usually views that denigrate Iranians and Iran with sweeping generalities).  They didn't succeed with me and now they've turned to VPK.   

 ----------------------------

VPK jaan

by Reality-Bites on Tue Aug 23, 2011 07:10 AM PDT

One question for you.

In your list of where you stand with regard to various organizations, you didn't mention anything about the IR. Just for sake of clarity and completeness (if you care to share), what is your stance in that regard?

Khanom Kissy Kissy aka KKK?

Khanom Kissy Kissy (KKK), for your information Rafigh Majid Khoshdel, who conducts those interviews, was active against Shah before you were born.

He's been active against Islamic Republic of Hell probably longer that your employment in NAJA.

His inteviews are some of the most substantial and usefull.

I know it struck you a little bit too close to home.

Don't you ever forget: Dast baalaay dast besiar ast.

alaaf: IR is the worst instance of neoliberalism in the region

alaaf: socialism is all about diginty of human beings and respect for their welfare and worth.

The entire human civilization so far has only had a handfull of attempts to creat such an order, and unfortuately they've all failed. If your idea of socialism is Lybia and Syria, it just points out to where you come from. Can't expect much more form an apologist of murderign thugs in IR.

Islamic Republic of Hell and it's plan to eliminate all subsidies from working people in Iran, its relentless onslaughrt on the working class of Iran and many other instances simply demonstrate how IR is  the worst neo-con, neo liberal in the Middle East and the world. Shame on both of you, IR for being such thugs, and you for being such an undefatiguable apologist.

HAHA this is a good laugh but what about the Neo-Cons?

It's baffling why anyone would want to call themselves "socialist" and at the same time cheer for the destruction of Socialist (and secular) states like Lybia and Syria AND amazingly support an apartheid right wing state like Israel. I think Neo-Con is a perfectly suited tittle for them. You know who you are.

VPK jaan

One question for you.

In your list of where you stand with regard to various organizations, you didn't mention anything about the IR. Just for sake of clarity and completeness (if you care to share), what is your stance in that regard?

Dear VPK

I am also member of IIC. I also like "Iran Secular". Thanks for sharing.

Truthseeker

How about various people come out and say where they stand in their words. That way assuming they are truthful we have no more guesswork.

Dear Anahid

Very good points. For the sake of honesty I will tell you:

• I am not a member of the Greens.
• I am a member of IIC - International Iranian Council.
• I have been a member of NIAC but not paid my dues for a while so by now I may not be.
• I have pro Monarchist views but am not a Monarchist.
• I am not a member of JM; Toodeh; socialist; marxists; islamist party. I am willing to accept them as legitimate parties.
• I strongly oppose MEK; MKO; PMOI by any name. I do not accept their participation in anything other than defendants in a trial. But I want a fair trial for them not some pre-determined outcome.

I am a member of the Democratic party of the USA.

To be fair

MK has been fighting off accusations from people determined to label him and connect him to Groups. So perhaps he is once in a while allowed to let off steam in a humorous way.

One main problem with this blog

The problem with this blog is that many writers and commentators on this site don't identify themselves as pro NIAC or green or whatever. For instance, I have been member of NIAC in the past but presently I am not.

To try to categorize people like this, is a poor practice. Many of us are only pro a group or organization if we find its actions in line with our beliefs and values. We don't have a life time obligation to defend them because at some point in the past we agreed with their course of action.