Monda

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شازده، انسانیت شما قابل تقدیر است

تعظیم.

نام چنین مردمی را فقط میشود گذاشت "بی‌ ناموسان ناموس کش"

I am glad to report that despite the "common unwritten code of silence", I have called the police on two occassions to stop such behavior. It is much easier than you think - and much more effective that you may imagine.

من هم از کلمه ی ناموس متنفرم

وبلاگ نسوان مطلقه معلقه 

ناموس چیست؟ یا چگونه تبدیل به یک بی ناموس شدم

نوامبر 5, 2010 بدست نسوان

هجده ساله بودم که مفهوم ناموس را بطور اتفاقی توی  میدان ونک  کشف کردم.مردم  جمع شده بودند و نگاه می کردند.مرد تنومندی فریاد می زد  و فحش می داد و زنی را که ناموسش بود  روی زمین می کشید. روسری زن پس رفته بود و مرد انبوه موههای سیاه بلند زن را همچون کمندی دور مچ دست خود پیچیده بود  تا فرار نکند و با نهایت قدرتش توی صورت زن می زد. زن زیبا بود ، خیلی زیاد زیبا بود ، با اینکه صورتش از ضرب کشیده های محکمی که مرد به آن می نواخت به رنگ خون در آمده بود م یک جور زیبایی وحشی و هوسناک  در چهره اش برق می زد . مرد  نعره می زد و رو به رهگذر ها فریاد می زد ناموسش را دیده که از ماشین غریبه ای پیاده شده است و مردم با همدردی سر تکان می دادند. زن گیج بود  و چشمهایش از ترس  و ناباوری به دور دست خیره مانده بود . من نایستادم. از آدمهایی که این جور موقع ها می ایستند تا شب برای  زن و بچه شان چیزی تعریف کنند عقم می گیرد. من رد شدم اما  پاههایم می لرزید وتا مدتها صدای سیلی هایی که    بر صورت آن زن نواخته شد  مثل کابوس مرا دنبال می کرد.

***

دومین باری که مفهوم ناموس را فهمیدم خودم آن زنی بودم که برای ناموس مردی به زمین  افتاد.  تازه جدا شده بودم و به خانه ی پدری ام پناه برده بودم . نه خیانتی در کار بود و نه هیچ. دختر خاله ام  در بیمارستان بستری شده بود  و کمی دیر تر از معمول به خانه بر می گشتم. دم در که ماشین را پارک کردم شوهر سابقم به سمت من آمد . انگار خیلی وقت بود که منتظر توی کوچه ایستاده بود  دستهایش از عصبانیت می لرزید پرسید کجا بودی؟ احساس کردم که با خودش فکر کرده که پای مرد دیگری ( ناموس) در میان است. می توانستم توضیح بدم اما لزومی نداشت. او حتی دیگر شوهر من نبود. سوییچ را توی کیفم گذاشتم و  تمام شهامتم را جمع کردم و برای اولین بار گفتم : راستش را بخوای دیگر به تو مربوط نیست!  همسایه ها مهمانی شان تمام شده بود و دم در پر از آدم بود و من درست دم در خانه ی پدری ام بودم ، دلیلی نداشت بترسم. جمله ام تمام نشده بود که مچ دستم را گرفت و پیچاند و من روی زمین افتادم، دستبندم از دستم کنده شد و روی خاک و خل افتاد. انگار دیوانه شده باشد ، مرا روی زمین می کشید و به سمت ساختمان نیمه سازی که  ته کوچه بود می برد.فریاد زدم و از مردم  و از همسایه ها کمک می خواستم اما هیچ کس به روی خودش نیاورد. مرد مسنی هم قدم با ما تو کوچه قدم می زد ،  التماس کنان  کمک خواستم  ولی مرد رویش را بر گرداند و به سرعت دور شد. آنها همسایه های ما بودند و آن منطقه یکی از بهترین منطقه های تهران بود. باورم نمی شد که هیچ کس به کمکم نخواهد آمد وتنها کسی که می تواند نجاتم دهد خودم هستم. نیرویم را جمع کردم و در یک فرصت مناسب با نهایت زورم توی بیضه هایش لگد زدم. از درد خم شد و دستم را رها کرد و من تا خانه دویدم.روپوشم پاره شده بود و پایم زخم شده بود همسایه ها  دم در  ایستاده بودند و مرا نگاه می کردند هیچ کس هیچ چیز نگفت.بعد ها فهمیدم که مردم در امور ناموسی دخالت نمی کنند. بعد ها فهمیدم که چقدر از این مردم متنفرم. بعد ها فهمیدم که وقتی هجده سالم بود نباید از کنار آن زن با بی تفاوتی عبور می کردم و از خودم هم متنفر شدم.

***

آخرین باری که معنی ناموس را فهمیدم پنجشنبه  13 آبان سال 89 بود.باز هم پای ناموس در میان بود ولی  این بار زنی کتک نخورد، این بار جوانی بر روی آسفالت  در برابر چشم همان مردم جان داد. همان مردمی که در مسایل ناموسی دخالت نمی کنند و ته دلشان این را جزو فضایل خود می دانند. همان مردمی که معنی ناموس را خیلی بهتر از من می دانند و می پذیرند که بخاطرش جانی فدا شود. همان مردمی که  شب تخمه می شکنند و داستان را برای هم تعریف می کنند و می خندند. همان مردمی که من از آنها متنفرم.راستی من از کلمه ی ناموس هم متنفرم

ghayrat zan o mard nadaareh va...

به نظر من اگر هر کسی مدافع خودش باشه، قتل و جنایت دیگه لازم نیست. وقتی‌ جامعه حق دفاع رو روی دوش مرد میندازه، اون وقت است که کشت و کشتار پیش میاد.  

در ضمن، فردا باید معنی‌ ناموس رو نگاه کنم. ببینم چه معنای جدیدی میشه بهش اختصاص داد،

I am sorry but ..........

 مرد باید "غیرت" داشته باشد-    NO absolutely not necessary

یک مرد همینطور یک زن بهتر است فهم و شعور داشته باشند

- یعنی اینکه از "ناموس" خود دفاع کند

اصلا معنی این حرف چیست؟

از "ناموس" خود دفاع کند?

assan iranian.com kelaas englisieh :o)

اصن کلاس انگلیسی‌ هم هست این iranian.com

مرسی‌ ماندا جان

شما که فعلا فرانسویت عالیه.

حالا فرانسه رو ولش، حیفه که بعضی‌ از ایرانیها با  داشتن‌های پرافیشنسی
در زبان انگلیسی، هنوز نمیتونن فارسی‌ رو که زبان مادریشونه بخونند.

ولیکن از شوخی گذشته، من همینجا از همه شما دوستای خیلی‌ خوب تو این
سایت تشکر و قدر دانی‌ می‌کنم که همیشه به من در این مورد کمک کردید و منو
تشویقم کردید که بیشتر و بهتر انگلیسی یاد بگیرم. اگر به خاطر این صبر و
حوصله شما نبود، من تا حالا همین دو تا کلمه رو هم نمیتونستم بلغور کنم :)

merci a vous ma chere! (accent bi accent)

سوری جان، فکرشو کن...

اگه شما به زبان سلیس فرانسه کامنت بگذاری چقدر بعضیها ممکنه گوزپیچ بشن : ))

Exact!

ماندا جان، فدات شم که انقدر کمکم میکنی‌. مرسی‌.

ایکاش انگلیسی‌ منهم مثل شما انقدر خوب بود.

آره دقیقا منظورم همین بود که گفتی‌.

‌‌

The good behavior of the people, warms our heart and make us thankful.....  And the bad ones, just make us to recognize and appreciate the good ones!

Souri jan, Fanaticism vs Ghayrat

I hear your very valid point. How words get diluted or overprotected in our culture of Ghayrat has shown extremely problematic. My interpretation of Ghayrat is linked with Pride. And Pride to me has a very positive connotation, without any religious reference.

It is the convenient interpretation of the words that causes madness... to the extremes: Murders, doesn't it? Not any word by itself. The governing ideology du jour and the ruling mentality... I think this is what you are implying, true? If so, mokhlessam.

Souri jan, Fanaticism vs Ghayrat

I hear your very valid point. How words get diluted or overprotected in our culture of Ghayrat has shown extremely problematic. My interpretation of Ghayrat is linked with Pride. And Pride to me has a very positive connotation, without any religious reference.

It is the convenient interpretation of specific words, and then the action - injustice to the extreme: Murders, doesn't it... Not the word itself. i.e. The governing ideology du jour... I assume this is what you are implying, true? If so, mokhlessaam.

Overall

I believe that having "gheirat" if we can call it so, is a normal human behavior. When in a serious relationship, we are engaged in a moral contract and if we break it, it is considered as treason. So the other party has the right to be mad at us. This, has its root in the natural human behavior.

But bashing and killing the innocent girls because of their normal action of seducing or else, is called "fanaticism" not Gheirat, and has its root in religion.

My two cents :)

The good behavior of the people, warms our heart and make us thankful.....  And the bad ones, just make us to recognize and appreciate the good ones!

Aziz, joking Not the main culprit in murders

However, Cultural Semantics have deep roots and I try to pay attention to that. I am glad you were impressed by Soheila Vahdati's well-written article as I was. Thank you for your comment.

Tell 'em Mehrban Jan :o)

I'm learning about us, as I read the thread. I enjoy reading what comes up for anyone, whether the direct intension of the blog or outside of it. Focus changes for good reasons. I respect each person's feedback and am interested to read it all : )

Mehrban aziz

Everything from you is well taken & welcome, whether it is addressed to me or not. I'd just tried to be more precise.

Thanks for your great input. 

The good behavior of the people, warms our heart and make us thankful.....  And the bad ones, just make us to recognize and appreciate the good ones!

My comment was a general one

Souri, if it were addressed to you I would have named you specifically.  

Very true Mehrban friend

Now I will elaborate it more. I agree with some of the points and don't agree with some others

دوم اینکه مرد باید "غیرت" داشته باشد --------> YES

،---------> YES یعنی اینکه از "ناموس" خود دفاع کند

---------> YES و اگر مرد دیگری را با زن خود دید، از خود خشونت نشان دهد

----------> NON و خون بریزد

Having "Gheirat" in this case is something almost normal and practiced in many countries, even the Western ones, even in France which is considered as a very liberal country

But showing "Ghierat" and to some points "Khoshounat" should not have to be confused with KILLING

The problem is we always try to go to the extreme. Of course even in France and the US, some jealous husbands had killed their wives lovers or even they killed their wives, but this is not something usual and approved by the general public. Same thing goes in Iran

Now  what is discussable in here, is the degree of this "Gheirat" and its sense. I see nothing wrong with a man (or woman, for that matters) to get mad when they discover the adulteries of their partner. What is expected here? Just to shake the shoulders and saying: Oh well, let ignore  it because we are liberal people and very open minded?

But killing the young girls of the family, sisters, daughters or else, has never been the subject of any jokes, whether Rashti's or others. All the Rasthi jokes I've ever heard were about the couples and nothing else

Finally, I have utmost respect for the Gilani hamvatan whom I consider as the avant-guard ethnicity of Iran (along with the Khorasanis)

The reason why and where this kind of jokes has its root, has already been largely discussed here in this site.I have nothing more to add.

This blog is not about telling (or not telling) ethnic jokes

It is specifically about understanding the underlying reasons why Gilani culture is far less aggressive towards women than the rest of us.  And once it is understood that their attitude and its underlying reasons is a testament to the relative health of their society, then to emulate it.  

I'm not against ethnic jokes

Unless I find the joke very embarrassing or even vulgar, but in general these kind of jokes don't bother me.

This is a very old habit which is a custom now in all the countries. We see lots of jokes about the Irish, Scottish, West- Virginian,Texan, French, Russians, Canadians, Belgian, Iranian, Tehrani, Rashti, Azari, lor.....

If I'm somewhere where one of those ethnicity is present, I do avoid saying those jokes by respect, unless the very same person starts saying jokes about their own ethnicity, then I may follow (and this happened sometimes with my Azari or Rashti friends)

Of all others, I generally avoid saying jokes about the Ghazvini, because I find them very rude and tasteless.

So in my opinion what Mrs Vahdati said is true, but I just can't help it.

Honest opinion.

PS_ I haven't read all the comments below.

Some Rashti jokes portray a very cool, detached atttitude

towards sexuallity and other matters of life ( almost like Lenny Cohen's songs). I stoped with Rashti jokes after watching "Post'chi", after some years then I started with the jokes again. Restraining from ethnic jokes, is almost like going vegetarian, you keep going back and forth!

Northerners' resistance to Islam looks like a very definite factor ( and thank you Ms.Azadeh). Could all of this be yet another mean to maintain male-fars' 'cultural' hegemony over all? who knows, who cares. Would that make it a farcical hegemony? 

Rashti jokes are not funny

I think on addition to the reasons listed in your excellent blog, we find some jokes funny because they make us feel better about ourselves. This is exactly what Shazde explained as cheap laugh in expense of someone else. I do not find Rashti and Turki jokes funny with exception of a few Turki ones.

Funnily it seems that Azaris have the highest share of scientist and professionals amongst others in Iran. My best math teacher was not a Gilak, he was Azari.

I don't think Rashti jokes contribute to male violence but am in favour of dropping the Rashti and Turki jokes. I however defend Jokes about Abadanis, Lors and Shirazis to the last drop of my blood. I enjoy the jokes about Arabs, but they may have to go the same way as the Turki jokes.

Thank you for raising this subject Monda jaan, I once came across a horrifying case of honour killing and may write about it at some point.

No Ethnic jokes

Monda great article!! While it is difficult to directly consider the Rashti jokes as a culprit in many moronic behavior of male killing female based on some suspicious so called namous issues in a culturally male dominated society, but it may enforce it. We may need to revisit the great Shahryar poem as was read at IRI majles by Dr. Alami " ala Tehrania ensaf mikon Khar. toei ya man ... be rashti kaleh mahikhor be tousi .." Those degrading great may fellow countryman as a “stupid animal” should be on their way to live with their own kind somewhere else. I can not believe how one thinks and acts in a way that hurts other fellow human being feelings let alone killing them in the name of jokes, having good time or namous. Well, they do not have this right, who ever they may be.   

Guilan became an integral part of Iran only in the 17th century

I believe that Roozbeh_Gilani's observation about Guilaki women as rice-cultivators as well as the influence of neigbhouring countries' modern ideas is accurate. So is Mehrban's when she says, ''by the virtue of the mountains that isolates them from the central areas of Iran, they have been, in comparison, shielded from the Islamic values and culture which is particularly hostile to women.''  

Furthermore, the Guilan province became an integral part of Iran only in the 17th century. 

 ‘’Muslim Arabs never managed to conquer Gilan.  Gilaks and Deylamites successfully repulsed all Arab attempts to occupy their land or to convert them to Islam. In fact, it was the Deylamites under the Buyid king Mu'izz al-Dawlah who finally shifted the power by conquering Baghdad in 945. Mu'izz al-Dawlah however allowed the Abbasid caliphs to remain in comfortable but secluded captivity in their palaces.

''In the 9th and 10th centuries AD, Deylamites and later Gilaks gradually converted to Zaidite Shi'ism. It is worth noting that several Deylamite commanders and soldiers of fortune who were active in the military theatres of Iran and Mesopotamia were openly Zoroastrian (for example, Asfar Shiruyeh a warlord in central Iran, and Makan, son of Kaki, the warlord of Rayy) or were suspected of harboring pro-Zoroastrian (for example Mardavij) sentiments. Muslim chronicles of Varangian (Rus, pre-Russian Norsemen) invasions of the littoral Caspian region in the 9th century record Deylamites as non-Muslim. These chronicles also show that the Deylamites were the only warriors in the Caspian region who could fight the fearsome Varangian vikings as equals.

''Buyids established the most successful of the Deylamite dynasties of Iran.The Turkish invasions of the 10th and 11th centuries CE, which saw the rise of  Ghaznavid and Seljuk dynasties, put an end to Deylamite states in Iran. From the 11th century CE to the rise of  Safavids, Gilan was ruled by local rulers who paid tribute to the dominant power south of the  Alborz range, but ruled independently.

''The  Safavid emperor Shah Abbas I, ended the rule of  Kia Ahmad Khan, the last semi-independent ruler of Gilan, and annexed the province directly to his empire. From this point in history onward, rulers of Gilan were appointed by the Persian Shah.''

Source:

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilan#Geography_and_climate

تنها مختص به ایرانیان نیست

1.  انوری را هست پسری و دختری
2. هریکی بر خلاف اهل دعا
3. اولی دست خود نهد بزمین
4. دومی پای خود نهد بهوا

Doostan: Mamnoon!

Azadeh, Majid, Azarin, Mehrban, Ari, G. Rahmanian, Anahid, Shazdeh, Sahamaddin Ghiassi, Roozbeh_Gilani:

I appreciate All your visits and comments here. So far, many of you have, generated new insights (Mehrban's feedback on the impact of geography and local economy is very helpful) for me and refreshed some of my old ones (Shazdeh and Ari's cultural replacements, also made me think)...  

I hope we continue opening the role of naamoosi labels, further. If anyone can come up with other examples within the Iranian culture which speaks to the same detrimental quality of chauvinism (albeit taken lightly) - please do share.  

Wow, Mehrban, excellent points

Yes, I can think of few of my math teachers who were Shomali, they were great teachers too. I like how you have related the rice growing process with good math skills. thanks for a very informative comment.

Why Gilaks are less prone to violence against women

To understand this point in a country that crimes of all magnitudes against women is common is very important.  Roozbeh Gilani has excellent points.  The life style that is required by growing rice is key to the behavior and general attitude of the Gilaks.  I can further say that the temperate climate and the relative high degree of rain makes life a lot less trying than other parts of Iran. 

Also, growing rice outside of its social requirements that Roozbeh mentioned is a methodical process, unlike other grains it requires very specific amounts of water to cover the grains and the grooves that the rice is planted in are of specific sizes and depths, etc. It is my understanding that to grow good quality rice a lot of Care and attention is required.  Think about it, how many of your math, geometry, trigonometry teachers were from Gilan and Mazandaran? Almost all of mine were, it is not just because they eat a lot of fish :-) but it is because for centuries they have measured and calculated and thought about the process of making a living.  Gilaks are used to thinking things through (less knee jerk reactions of geyraat).

I want to "go out on a limb" again and say that -"maybe"- also by the virtue of the mountains that isolates them from the central areas of Iran, they have been, in comparison, shielded from the Islamic values and culture which is particularly hostile to women.  

Thanks Monda, a great blog.   

Source on growing rice and math skills:  Malcom Gladwell, The Outliers (a great book in general). 

Replace Rashti, Turk, Ghazvini, Lor ... with "An Iranian"

Replace Rashti, Turk, Ghazvini, Lor ... with "An Iranian", and see:

1. How the joke quickly becomes degrading ... what it really is. Having cheap fun at someone else's expense.

2. How in front of a non-Iranian audience, we quickly turn into a bunch of idiotic fools.

آری بدون شک وضعیت رقت بار فرهنگی ماست

آری ماجرای قتل های ناموسی گریه آور است

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