Madonna-Whore Complex in Our Culture

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Monda
by Monda
12-Dec-2009
 

If you find yourself interested in the title of my blog read:

//primal-page.com/madonna.htm

Last night I was at a holiday dinner party when I noticed the grim look on Sophie's face. She texted me from across the table to go outside for a chat. We found a shelter from the rain, lit our cigarettes, and then she spoke as a tear glistened on her cheek below the dark circles around those usually vibrant dark brown eyes.

"What's wrong?” I asked. “I've been meaning to ask you all through dinner."

“You know Monda, Farid and I are breaking up. He says he just cannot for the life of him figure out who I am to him!”

I met Sophie through my Human Sexuality professor in my third year of graduate school. She is an accomplished human rights attorney who financed her education through exotic dancing in an established SF club. The topic of discussion in our class was the impact of legalization of prostitution on psycho therapeutic models. Sophie was there to educate us about her most personal information as it related to our field.

After my research paper was completed Sophie and I kept our contact.

Twice a year we have lunch or dinner. Two years ago I found out that she was in a committed relationship with an Iranian-American man for four years at that point. Farid was, Sophie and I acknowledged, one of the essential topics of our conversations each time we met. Not only because he and I shared a similar background because of our nationality but also because he turned out to be of a family whose values I was very familiar with. Farid’s sister was an old friend of my cousin's.

During our lunch last summer Sophie talked to me about the possibility of moving in a house with Farid, which however was not intended to lead to marriage. Things were good because of the nature of their relationship and their professions. And as American as she is, the expression “sari ke dard nemikoneh chera dastmaal bebandi?” made sense to her as she gave me her big bright smile with many dimples around it.

Sophie could not be a mother, so that was that – for her anyway. Farid, on the other hand, was a different story. I well knew, I shared with Sophie, that he was raised in a prominent, traditional Iranian family.

I explained to her my perspective of Farid’s family values and even cautioned her about some of his probable cultural dilemmas, even after 34years of living outside of Iran.

Our discussion of Sophie’s serious decision process regarding her cohabitation with Farid, somehow led to how she and Farid communicated sexually. I was specifically curious about how Farid related to his lover’s exotic dancing background. This opened a very sincere and bonding discussion between us. Sophie admitted to me that many times over the years she has found herself baffled by Farid’s mood swings after what she considered the most satisfying sensual/sexual experience. She had trouble figuring out the reasons for his silence, withdrawal, and loss of connection with her –immediately after they had the most fabulous erotic experience together. It was not about either partner having had a long day, feeling physically exhausted or having to immediately tackle other tasks.

Thus we explored the topic leading us to some conclusions, a few of which are as following:

Most men of Middle-eastern and Mediterranean backgrounds are inflicted by this dichotomy: lover versus woman as their mother. A woman, in their unconscious male psyche, cannot represent both ideas. This may explain why the sweet wordsand gestures stop flowing toward a woman once she has had sexual encounters with a man.

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more from Monda
 
Monda

Yolanda jan

by Monda on

You are more amazing for thinking that about me :o)  Honey, I can never read anyone's mind.  Ask my daughter or easier than that just read my blog about paying a psychic :o)

The bonding hormone for women And (to a lower degree) men is oxytocin which is highly produced during (good) sex. Humans can really bond without sex (although it's not the same quality as you can imagine base on our evolutionary/survival of species). 

Sophie and Farid are breaking up because he cannot figure out the capacity in which she can remain in his life.  She does not believe in marriage. 

As far as I know, she was dealing with endometriosis years back. She loves children and can be very sweet and maternal around them. In any case, Farid knew of that piece about her all along.  They have been together for about 5 years!


Monda

LOL yep almost positively true!

by Monda on

Women tend to adapt (or mirror) their long term mates' patterns.  I mean if  a woman is near a man who falls asleep after sex, she may want to try that too.  And she may possibly enjoy it too!  Or if she's been given bad attitude or was left alone, she may have adapted to those men's behavior by following those styles.  Depending on the woman's personality structure, of course.

Princess, I notice another point here about your friend: She may have been so badly hurt by her male partners that her core belief suggests that she cannot stay in peace and safety, following sex, with any man.  Therefore, she chooses to leave them before they leave her?  I don't know your friend, see which one of the above explanations may work with her style.


yolanda

......

by yolanda on

 Thank you for your taboo-breaking blog. I did a little research and found whole bunch articles saying the similar thing. They said that guys produce a lot of prolactin during the "actions", so they tend to be tired and sleepy after the "actions"

//www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2008-12/sex-and-sleep

//www.nhne.org/news/NewsArticlesArchive/tabid/400/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/2756/Why-Do-Guys-Get-Sleepy-After-Sex.aspx

You wrote that Shophie could not be a mother. Does she refuses to give birth? Is that possible one of the reasons that they broke up? I recall that the late King Hussein of Jordan married another woman 'cause his 1st wife is infertile....Shah left the infertile Soraya 'cause he needed heirs and heiresses.....

Hi! BN,

      Thank you for your analysis. You are amazing! You can read people's minds!

thanks,

Delaram Banafsheh (Yolanda)

"Cactus in the Desert"


Nur-i-Azal

It's not just Iranians

by Nur-i-Azal on

It's like this everywhere. Amongst Greeks, Italians, Romanians and southern Slavs it is even worse. Those guys make Iranians look sane by comparison on the whole Madonna/whore complex.


HollyUSA

Princess

by HollyUSA on

Are any of these men that your friend loses interest in after having
sex with them, actually any good in bed??

And to the men who view Sophie as a 'used woman' or not 'wife material' -  is it because she did what some may consider unacceptable as a profession/for money? Is it the percieved / probable number of men who 'touched' her....what exactly is it in your opinion that explains  Farid's sense of animosity toward her? I'm curious how you see it.


Princess

LOL...

by Princess on

Monda, Really? Is that true? Very interesting. 

The reason I asked is because, I do have a friend who claims that she loses interest in men once she's had sex with them. She says that in some cases these are men she's initially been in love with.

So when I was reading your link and stumbled upon the 'sacred' and 'profane' love, I immediately thought of her. She once said she could either love a man or have sex with him, but not both, hence my question.  

 

 


Monda

Princess here's an idea!

by Monda on

A similar behavior in females in our culture (very broadly speaking) - is often diagnosed as Borderline Personality Disorder.  Interesting, isn't it?!


Monda

bajenagh jan I see your point

by Monda on

and accept those differences after mulling over them since my very first boyfriend, trust me :o)

If Sophie's past was a serious issue with Farid, then why do you suppose they planned to live in together/ actually buy a house together?  He brought it up, after he cleared some properties in Iran.  You know bajenagh naghi I am confused by their dynamic!  Wondering if there's a cutural twist so I could make more sense of it :o)

I do appreciate your feedback. 

Wait, they can enjoy it with women they Hate??!! Seriously? What's wrong in that picture?  Most bonding of all activities with someone you hate?  


bajenaghe naghi

Monda jan

by bajenaghe naghi on

A very interesting blog.  Thank you.

Men and women view and experience love and sex very differently. For women, I have been told, love and sex are intertwined. One without the other can be empty and non satisfying. On the other hand for men love and sex are two different and separate things. A man can have sex with a woman without loving her and enjoy it. He can hate the woman and still enjoy it! 

I really believe that Madonna-whore complex is a universal feeling among men and not so much due to geography. You may find it anywhere that mothers go out of their way to attend to their sons and form that very special mother and son relationships that wives hate.

My theory as to why Farid goes all silent and withdrawn after having sex with Sophie can be described in one word, anger. He is totally pissed off with the situation he finds himself in. He loves and cares for her emotionally and enjoys the love making. He is physically satisfied. But inside him something is eating him up  and keeps reminding him that she is a used woman. Every word she sings into his ears may have been song in hundreds of other ears before him. Every part of her body has been admired and kissed and touched by others filthy hands and fingers. She is not a whole woman but a broken one and he hates himself and her for all this and he is angry. That is why he is quiet and withdrawn. 

I hope I made some sense.  


Monda

Faramarz, I agree - Men do get it from all sides!

by Monda on

And so do women.

The mood changes Sophie was describing were not so much your usual post-sex-channel-changing type.  She has been committed to this relationship for about five years and knows her partner very well.  So when she described the details of their post-sex behavior exchange, I took it to be as hurtful to her, as she described. 


Monda

Everybody Loves Somebody

by Monda on

Incidentally, I know quite a few people who enjoy sex with their steady partners, married or not.


Monda

Princess jan,

by Monda on

I agree with you and so does research. By adding the "in our culture" in my blog title I was trying to get the attention of our hamvatans and intriguing non-Iranians' And female readers'.

I am sure there is a similar phenomenon going on in women's psyche as well. Which may look different on the outside anyway. I will share with you when I know more about the female side of things. i am glad you find this topic interesting.

 


Monda

Bitter Divorced Man

by Monda on

Since I find this site to have mostly Iranian or people of similar culture as its main readers, I am interested in hearing experiences and thoughts about the topic.  Thank you for your comment. 

 


Faramarz

حيونى مرد ها ى جهان سومى

Faramarz


They get it from all sides!

Everything they do is either due to their conservative “mommy” syndrome or macho, chauvinistic “daddy” syndrome!

What if this is a purely physical relationship which most men love to have and nothing more. And the mood changes after sex is just like the feeling you get after eating a big meal! You just want to sit in front of TV and change channels aimlessly!


Everybody Loves Somebody Sometime

Farid is a wise man...!?

by Everybody Loves Somebody ... on

Exotic dancing was, is, and will always be the sophosticated description of striping down and lap dancing whether it's in a established SF club or a rinky dinky joint called Jimmies in Huntsville Alabama where the toothless chicks provide all sorts of services for $10!?
Remember the old saying, there are two kinds of women in this world, the first kind you marry, the second kind you have sex with. Sophie is of the latter kind!
Farid is a wise Iranian not to get serious with Sophie, a lawyer stripper!?

 

God Bless America for offering both kinds of women!


Princess

Monda jan,

by Princess on

Thanks for bringing this important issue up. I agree with you that the madonna-whore complex is probably more prevalent amongst the middle-eastern and mediterranean men, but it is in no way restricted to them. In fact, I think it is rather prevalent amongst the American 'non-liberals' as well. In other words, its prevalence depends on how conservative a culture is. 

And it's extremely sad. 

Incidentally, I wonder if there are cases reported where women suffer from this complex? 


Bitter Divorced Man

It has nothing to do with Middle East or Mediterranean

by Bitter Divorced Man on

Your last paragraph is a psychological model based on voodoo science.  The mood swings of men after making sex has more to do with chemical changes within the body of a man than anything else.  Of course the physical manifestations of these chemical changes could be magnified by behavior and cultural whatchamacallits, but they are not the cause of it.