Multiple Personality Disorder

OK Mariam, but what about my question??

My dear lady, you dodged the most important point of all....What is your position on how Islam treats women??????????????????????

regards,

CoP

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PUT IRAN FIRST 

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Cost of Progress

I'm in uni now so I'll only reply to the history issue now.

Why was my reply a "cookie cutter"? The conquest of Persian and the consequent spread of Islam is today told in two different versions:

One group maintains that the Arabs found a group of oppressed farmers and citizens who were dissatisfied with the corrput Sassanid rule and the clergy and welcomed the invaders with open arms and converted to
their religion, Islam immediately. [IRI version]

The other group takes the complete opposite view and insist that the invaders forced the local population to convert to their religion on the point of the sword and only a few managed to escape that fate and keep the fires of Zoroastrianism, and all that is good about it, burning.

The latter group, then, considers Islam and its 1400 years of history in
Iran to have been a story of decline, that of society, economy, and
culture.It also believes, I daresay fancies that “removing
the yoke of the Arab religion” would then return us all to the glory
days of Shahpur I.

The former, however, romanticises the invasion and believes that the effects of the invasion was to create a commonwealth of Islamic nations etc..

The truth probably lies somewhere in between the two versions and the reason why Persia fell and Persian became Muslims is much more complicated than the two explanations. I tried to state that, contrary to what the two groups popularly think, the initial Arab invaders were much more interested in gaining tribute and keeping it to themselves rather than convert the Persians to Islam... which is why Persians only converted fully after 3 centuries.

Dear Reza

You're entitled to whatever opinion you have... but just remember being offensive or aggresive towards people will make them ignore you at best but most probably reciprocate the same attitude. There are ways to be assertive without being offensive.

In any case, its interesting you mention Reza Shah and the Pahlavi regime. We are all products of the societies we live in. Do you know who Khomeini was a product of? The society ruled by Reza Shah and his son. Had Reza Shah not overthrown the constitutionalist era in the beginning of the 20th century, perhaps Iran would have evolved into a much better consensual society with a constitutionalist government.  In anycase, absolutist regimes give birth to absolutist people.Thats why Im not surpised you are supportive of military secular dictatorships.

About Turkey. Im not sure if you have been in Istanbul lately or you are familiar with the politico-religious landscape there. Anyone who's been in Turkey, can tell you that Turkey today is not the Turkey of the 1960s. The Kemalist elites are minority today, and new social groups have emerged from the smaller towns, who dont agree with the ideology of the military generals and voted overwhelmingly for the AKP government.

I wonder if it is the extremist secular military rule that has today produced a cosmopolitan religious youth in Turkey... just like the velayate faghih of IRI has produced a young society that has very little trust in the religious institutions and their involvement in politics in general?  

Maryam khanoom

I totally agree with your point that we can only alienate others by badmouthing Islam. I am guilty of it myself and know it is hardly a tool to change minds and midsets. But, you need to realize that it is the frustration that is the cause of it. Most people know that it is a futile effort. 

Your reply as to how Islam proliferated in Persia is a cookie cutter answer offered by those who hold this arab relgion sacred, i.e., a lot of Iranains, I know. 

You have heard the expression "History is Written by the Victors", I am sure. Arabs benefitted tremendously from Persian culture and ingenuity. Perisn scholars are not known as Persian but as Islamic. Great men such as Abu Ali Seena (Abesina) are referred as Islamic in Western publications. How do you explain the fact there remain virtually nothing in terms of literature, for instance, of pre-Islam Persia? Isn't it because the Arabs burned everything?

Arabs wanted Iran and killed, raped and maimed to get it. Hell, if they didn't do it then, they are doing now!

I wonder what your views are on how Islam treats women? That would really shine a light on how devoted you are to this religion.

Thanks you for your comments.  

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OK, let's settle for separation of State and Religion...

At least!!!

I admit that my comments have been aggresive and offensive toward religions (In particular, Islam in Iran, Shia sect and Muslim Iranians in general)... To these lost people, I am a facist and so be it... I wont apologize to an EVIL entity that like a cancer has tormented anything true Iran and Iranians have been standing for over 1400 years in Persia and Iran today!

I must also admit that eradicating Islam and muslims in Iran is next to impossible and it is simply not a realistic approch in this un-perfect world of ours...

However, If Iranians were smart enough, they would learn  a little from their more advanced neighbour to their west! Yes, Turkey and Turkish people. 

Once upon a time, they even became an Islamic Empire! The Ottamans after centuries of bloody wars for their beloved religion that lead to their final defeat and demise (Thank GOD...) were transformed to present Turkey and Turkish people through a visionary legend called: "Kamal Ataturk".

He along other Turkish visionaries, created a New Country and Constitution for Turkey in which all important Islamic Religious people and elements in their society were reduced in their practices at home on a personal level (which how it should be) or in the mosques ONLY. No more, Akhoonds, No more forceful backward Islamic rituals in public, let alone in the Government and politics... Of course, Turkey as a Sunni nation had so much less challenges as to compare to Iran and Iranians with their Shia cancer... (Ashora, Tasooa, Ghame zani, Ali, hassan,housein and their pure psychopathic culture, rituals and fake Imams...)

In fact they have a provision in their constitution (to this day) that if any Islamic idea, element or approach ever enters any Turkish government in Turkey, The Turkish Armed Forces have a perfect RIGHT and FULL AUTHORITY to intervene and strip that Islamic (religious infected) government and its elements of all authorities through an all out military action and by FORCE!!! (They have done that several times in past few decades!) How beautiful is that Iranian people? We couldn't even learn that from the Turks!!! Reza Shah (God bless his soul...) tried to copy Ataturk, but with World War II and his faith after exile was unable to complete his  most vital mission for Iran and Iranians... His son Mohamad Reza, despite his high education abroad and his TOLERANCE and sympathy for all those psychopathic, backward, fanatic,  bastard Islamic culture, let Iran and Iranians to be infected with this horrible cancer further and eventually be in this tragic situation today...

So, my dear Iranians, next time you call Turks donkeys! Remember who the real donkey is today!!!

Call me a facist, Racist and any other horrible names you want...

I wont apologize to Iran and Iranian killers, EVER...

"TRUTH HURTS" and any human being with an ounce of decency, awarness, intelligence and wisdom agrees with it...

Zendeh Baad Aagaahee, Iran va Iraniaan.

Free yourselves from any religion in particular Shia Islam in Iran...

Another remark about the conversion of Persians

While I agree with you regarding the racist and hostile attitude of many Arabs towards the Iranian people, it’s a misconception among many that Islam was spread in Iran by the sword or by military conquest at the expense of other factors.

Infact if you read about the historic spread of Islam in the Sassanid Empire, conversion to Islam was something that did not particularly interest the initial Arab warriors who were more concerned with tribute and taxes paid by the non-Muslims.

They wanted to keep a small Arab Muslim elite in power, and the Second Caliph Omar and later the Ummayad dynasty, who represented the hegemony of the Arab tribal aristocracy, famously tried to discourage the Persians from conversion inorder to keep them away from power. Those non-Arabs who did convert were called Mawali, and had less rights than Arab Muslims (you can see some traces of that in sunni fiqh schools that state that a leader must be from Quraysh)… this was also the reason why the Ummayads eventually lost power when the new Muslims in Iraq, Khorasan and other Eastern provinces rebelled leading to the rule of Abbasids, who shifted the capital to Baghdad and later Marv. It was only then (in the 9th century) that most Persian converted.

So, the conversion of Persian did not occur right away as many Iranians like to think. It was a long process by which Islam was gradually accepted by the majority population.

Its also noteworthy, that Persian Muslims contributed immensely in different fields including sciences, philosophy, theology, arts and even the Arabic language. Ibn Khuldoon says in his Muqaddimah:

Dear Cost of

Dear Cost of Progress

Thank you for you civil reply. 

I just want to point out that I don’t mind constructive criticism of Islam, but I think mocking people’s beliefs will not make people receptive of your argument (here I don’t mean you by person). It will most probably provoke the other part and make them defensive. So if one feels that there are millions of Iranians who have been “brainwashed” into Islam, and that person has taken upon himself the task of saving those poor souls… mocking their Imams/Prophet/whatever is not going to make them “convert” into ex-Muslim Iranians. Also I think, such comments will only causes enmity and hatred and is a very stupid tactic that rarely pays off.

Mariam khanoom,

I have no desire to insult you or your beloved religion, but the religion you call "ours" is forced upon us through blood, rape and slavery. Persians were and are called Ajam (meaning dumb, basically) by arabs (funny, isn't it?). To this date, Iranians are hated by majority of Arabs in various Arab countries.

Why is it that this it is such a taboo subject to criticize this religion?

No realistic person would advocate abolishing Islam in Iran - it is IMPOSSIBLE. All is being asked by secular folks like myself is for Islam to get its dirty hands off politics and governance, and  like a good boy, stand in the conrer and behave himself.   

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*sigh*

The hateful anti-Islam comments  below makes me wonder whether the commentators who lament  IRI regime are any better. To me they seem just as fanatical and intolerant.

Its also interesting to find that the same individuals on iranian.com who make immature mockeries  about the faith of the majority of the Iranian people are the same ones who have no problem propogating an attack on Iran. 

Reza-Rio de Janeiro  even suggests [once he is in power perhaps] that Islam and [religious?] people must be "abolished systematically".

I don't what his plan for dealing with the "millions of backward people living in Iran today"and the "masses with bastardized roots deep inside" is, but it sounds like a recipe for facism.

As long as there are people who want to buy miracles....

there is somebody there, selling them.

B.S in Islamic theology

I read some where that  THE MOLLAS  have erected that shrine just to bring down the numbers of visitors to TOOS the ferdowsi's shrine.......

even now they promote  (GRAND OPENING)       of emmamzadeh..... next friday.....Maziar

100% Corrupt and disgusting!!!

Although my own name is Reza, I have so much resentment toward a fake icon that has been worshiped for so long in Iran....

It is truly sad, during my childhood, I have been to Imam Reza Shrine many times...I have to be honest, I was touched by the grandness of the structures and all the beautiful architecture both insides and outside...  But I also remember so many negative and bad energies out there as a child! For one, I was terribly disturbed by the most aweful smell of sweat inside the haram mixed with Rose water being sprayed by those Razavi employees on all those dirty  masses, it was truly suffocating...

Moreover, even sadder part was to see all those very poor, sick and desperate people visiting Imam Reza for a very very false promise!!! So many sick, poor and deformed people throwing their money inside of the tomb for what???Note: Wouldn't have been better for these poor, ignorant and under developed people to receive Health, medical, economical, and educational aid from the government instead??!!!! ....

Aaastaane Ghodse Razavi has been a Mafia in Iran and besides few of their positive work for aesthetic purpose, they have exploited and cheated the masses for too long based on false premise and promises and even worse for a fake and useless character named Imam Reza!!! God only knows who he was and what the hell was doing there to be poisoned by grapes???!!!   WHEN THE TIME COMES,Reza and Razavis must be removed and those guilty of promoting such backwardness must be punished...

The bigger question is how to implement such huge task??? We are talking about under developed masses that have been brainwashed for centuries!!!

We have way too many brainwashed people and masses with bastardized roots deep inside......... (I'm talking about idealogies and understanding of life in general....) After all, How could an Ugly and Evil Mullah in 1979 come to Iran, have so many followers of all branches of this diverse nation, abduct the whole nation , hold them hostages and have his bastard followers to take our country and nation to this low in the year 2009 and godforbid beyond ???

That is the saddest part of our challenges as Iranians! Ourselves and our past with so many millions of backward people living in Iran today!!!

This fake religion and people must be abolished systematically from the healthy part of Iran and Iranians! With new generations, from their time of birth once and for all this backward religion, superstitions, fakeness, backwardness and ignorace must be ERADICATED from IRAN AND IRANIANS FOREVER... Of course, if you wish any sort of hope in the future.......

PS.One last sad situation is the fact that Arabs/Muslims (with the exception of Saudis) now after 1400 years are somewhat far more advanced and open minded in terms of practicing their own backward religion than Iranians in Iran today!!!

Islamic Iran and Religious Iranians are truly the worst tragedy ....

Free yourselves, Free Iran and Iranians ...

Consciousness, Love and Peace

What's the big deal about being the 8th among only 12?

WARNING: If you're too religious, just don't keep reading! 

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Who cares about this character, this Reza guy? Besides, what's the big deal about him? What's his "big" accomplishment? As much as I know. he just had the 8th position among only 12 people!

I've heard that the person known as lost Mehdi had to hide in a well out of his shame for being the last one!

Disclaimer: Just kidding...I was terrible in Talimaat dini, but still I know that lost Mehdi will reappear one day (probably to promote his memoir named: My Memories of the Underground:-))

So Called Shrines

These institutions are a great source of revenue for the corrupt and moftkhors both now and in the previous regime. If you ever been in these shrines (including the numerous emamzadehs that dot the Iranian landscape), you will see piles of money inside the actual shrine dropped by the faithful. Money that in all liklihood most of them did not have to begine with or that could have gone for food or other necessities. The systematic brainwashing these masses has worked perfectly for all these centuries.

The concept of worshiping arabs who came to Iran and died there is by itself an insult to all those who gave their lives defending Persia then........... and Iran now.  

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Imam Reza should have stayed the hell away from Iran

I think we need to export his tomb back to Saudi Arabia