Nazy Kaviani

Killjoy

Thanks for the clarification but none was necessary my friend.

It's unfortunate that you would find it necessary to do so...:-)

We have a similar flag-indentification problem in the South.  The original "rebel flag" was a symbol of the South's resistance to the Norths political oppression.  It is a symbol of our Southern heritage.  However, to many it represents the despicable period of slavery.  It once hung on the State building in our capital.  I was a very vocal proponent of taking it down.  It represents a personal feeling of pride and that's all well and good.  My son, a true Southern son, displays it proudly, as well he should.  But one must also be sensitive to the feelings of the African Americans who feel it represents a "period" rather than an emotion. 

I do believe a parent has the responsiblity of explaining the various meanings of a flag in order to prepare a child for whatever reaction a particular flag might evoke. 

In the simple context of your story, you should be proud that he carries pride of his country with him to school. 

dear Killjoy

Yes, I'd read your response. thank you. You know sometimes "confusion" happens. As Iranian we have this tolerance for the joke and also we can guess the joke in the context. But my concern was mostly for the American readers who may not get the sense of your joke at the first time. Now, that you'd explain it better, I believe there is no more confusion for anyone as to the true intention of your comment.

Thank you so much for the clarification.

Regards.

Dear Souri,

I hope you have read my response to Ms. Kaviani by now and know that I did not mean any disrespect to anyone.

Burning the American flags and effigies of the U.S. presidents became a pastime of the supporters of the regime after the revolution. I didn't think telling a joke about it would upset anyone.

Thanks for your concern!

The True Story!

Dear Ms. Kaviani,

My joke had nothing to do with your story. You may not believe this, but I had no idea that a blog was a personal belonging of the blogger.

If I had any intention to criticize or condemn your son's action I would have done it in a more straightforward manner, as I usually do when it comes to dealing with some issues on this site. And I would have started with a brief history of semiotics and would have given you my true feelings of what the flag stands for.

Having spent more than two and a half decades of my "private" life in search of true knowledge studying many things, I have come to certain convictions that make my life effortlessly pleasant for myself and those whom I love and respect.

As for the rest of the world I would borrow a line from the play/movie, The Fiddler On The Roof altering it to suit my purpoose here and say, "As long as they don't bother me, I don't bother them."

You also say,

"My son is a young adult who now makes his own choices in life, and he chooses and thinks wisely. He and I are past the sitting down stage."

Good for your son. However, I wonder how much of that choice is his. I know this could open a can of worms in the realm of cutural psychology, but I honestly wonder how much control we actually have over making our own "choices."

"Since when does love for the flag of a country mean love for its rule and approval of its policies? An Iranian can love the Iranian flag without condoning Iran's rulers. The American flag brings tears of joy and pride to millions who don't agree with US' military policies."

Not when the flag symbolizes all the atrocities of a regime which has brutalized most Iranians. Ignorant emotions of some or even many do not justify wrong and inhuman policies.

Many mourn the death of dictators and shed endless amounts of tears for them, do those tears justify the inhuman acts perpetrated by them?

Here's exactly what happened:

Years back I had this American flag on my desk which was part of the whole deal of working in the office. Once this American friend came to visit and as soon as he noticed the flag he said JOKINGLY, "I see you now have an American flag." And I told him JOKINGLY, "You know we burn these things back home." He loved the JOKE very much and while laughing he turned around and said to a mutual Canadian friend, "I don't see any Canadian flag in this room." To which I said JOKINGLY again, "I've ordered a doormat size from Canada. It just hasn't arrived, yet." And we all laughed together at the JOKES.

Fortunately, I didn't have to explain to them about my feelings towards both countries.

And as for being anonymous, I personally don't see anything wrong with that. Those who must know who we are, already do know. And those who don't can get to know us through our writings on this site.

Here's what I wrote and posted a while ago in response to a blog by "The Mrs." Enjoy!

My Dear Lady,
on Sun Nov 30, 2008 08:40 AM PST

Few seem to care about what you think of JJ
Let's forget about this whole thing and be gay
Many commenters see the site as a getaway
From their daily routines and boring work all day

Big brother thinks he has the right
To delete comments when he senses a fight
I wonder if he cares about the site's plight
He sees life as a tunnel end of which is shining bright

He claims he doesn't care much about wealth
But he seems to care even less where it cocerns his health
He drinks beer and wine just like a fish
And eats at each meal plenty a dish

Now he's hired some technical chiefs
Who check on all as if a bunch of thieves

He doesn't think about it outloud
But it seems to make him real proud
To get on the nerves of the whole crowd

There's a large group of moderators, JJ says
Mostly volunteers with no pays
Their work's no good, but needed
To make sure the site's fun's depleted
The smart things you say get deleted

Now my dear I wish you luck
Thanks for giving me time to talk

I'm leaving with a heart full of sorrow
But I shall return again tomorrow
To post a few comments
And more of your time to borrow

re; Ms Kaviani

""We can attempt to create a new language, new vocabulary, or try to rejuvenate old Persian language, flags, and symbols of civilization. But how realistic is that? To what end? ""

Dear Ms Kaviani:

There won,t be a solution until you know the problem. And the list above is not all, by the way .

To me, Not only it,s realistic but a priority . Status quo & reality is what Qadesiyeh regime is preaching daily . Unrealistic? , in 1977 , Would you have thought beyond your wildest dreams that in a matter of a few yrs , Iran would be transformed into an Ommatist country  , teenagers would wear Arab chaffieh, Women would be forced to accept Hejab ,Persian would be infested with even thousands more Arabic words, Shahnameh & patriot books would be banned from school books, Arabic would be glorified & taught in  schools as equal , Pre-Qadesiyeh heritage would be distorted & purged in education system, Iran's heritage be insulted & ridiculed daily by by it,s shaikhist regime , Every street & building would have an Arabic name, Iranic names be banned , A semi-illiterate Seyed Arab would be the learder of Mavalis, Arab jehadists & their cause would dictate V-ran's foreign policy , Kharrazi (foreign ministry2004) would apply to be a member of the Arab league , & tons more..

Would you have called that, UNRELISTIC? . No Madam, it,s not unrealistic. After all, every movement starts from a dream & mine and minority like me have a dream not only about language but a bigger dream to BURY the 1400 old ommati/shaikhi culture of shame along with it,s literary icons & heritage for good . It takes time and it starts with a personal change from each and every one of those who believe in it by practising the true language/culture/values. The priority is not the Removal of Mullah regime but eradication of Ommatism(not Islam,as a private religion) , once done, the regime won,t have a constant flood of ignorants to feed it,s ommati agenda . A true patriot will never send his/her son to become a chaffieh be sar servant of Arab basijii corp or some shaikh glorifying husseinieh . In the long run the regime will ultimately become irrelevant . Pan-arabism/Shaikhism doesn,t equate to Islam & one day will be buried for good, may be not in my life time but some day . Until then, my dear lady, this is not my flag, this country is not my Iran & some of those ommatists are not my ham-mihan...& remember it all starts from you & how you practice to be Iranian...

Best regards, once again !

You point well taken

Ms. Kaviani ... I understood your point about your son's love for the "only" flag that he knows of ... I have no argument with that. I merely said, had my own kid shown same love, then I would tell him a bit of history and how that flag became the flag... perdiod.

In regards to your second point of registering before I post comments, I didn't fully understand that. Am I to understand that you won't consider me a vacant lot, a silent wall, a "passing wind"! if I register, how about login name "Hassan Kachal" or perhaps you prefer "wonder woman", will those pass your criteria?

You know, I had a difficult time coming to terms with JJ's censorship, finally, I accepted that to censor myself in accordance to JJ's liking simply because I wanted to post here. Now, I am asked to "register" to be consider an equal! There is something wrong with our DNAs!

Dear Killjoy

I didn't get what you meant in your comment. Knowing you as one of the  articulated and respectful person in this site, I admit I got a bit surprised by your comment. But after reading it twice, I thing I got the irony you wanted to express there. I believe this is the same case for Nazy jan, as I see her reply to you has been  modified. What do you think ?

Nazy jan,

I might be completely wrong, but the way I understood the significance of the flag to your son is more like some sort of a lucky charm/memorabilia; like when we carry a photo of a loved one in our wallet. When selecting the photo, we don't necessarily pick the perfect, professionally done portrait, but a snapshot that carries personal memories and meanings. It is a personal thing, and frankly I think nobody should be so presumptuous to allow themselves to judge what other people should find valuable.

Thanks for sharing this touching story! 

Dear Killjoy

Just when I thought you didn't sufficiently live up to your name, you leave me a comment which shows you can! Your "memory" was disheartening on several levels. This was your "friend," right?!

This was my story about the Iranian flag. I have stories and reflections about the American flag, too. Perhaps I will write about that next! Certainly, nowhere in my reflections about flags will you see any interest in disrespecting them in any way, even jokingly.

What happened to the Killjoy that writes poetry and loves music? I want to hear from that guy!

From Wiki: A flag is a piece

From Wiki:

A flag is a piece of cloth, often flown from a pole or mast, generally used symbolically for signaling or identification. The term flag is also used to refer to the graphic design employed by a flag, or to its depiction in another medium.

The first flags were used to assist military coordination on battlefields, and flags have since evolved into a general tool for rudimentary signaling and identification, it was especially used in environments where communication is similarly challenging (such as the maritime environment where semaphore is used). National flags are potent patriotic symbols with varied wide-ranging interpretations, often including strong military associations due to their original and ongoing military uses. Flags are also used in messaging, advertising, or for other decorative purposes. The study of flags is known as vexillology, from the Latin vexillum meaning flag or banner.

One of the most popular uses of a flag is to symbolize a nation or country. Some national flags have been particularly inspirational to other nations, countries, or subnational entities in the design of their own flags."

I'm glad your son is not confused! Apparently, he is fully concious of his choice. It's ironic that he finds patriotism and love of country in a flag that symbolizes a religion with Arabic writings.

With all due respect, I'm not interested in registering or discussing your parenting style. The only reason I have to waste my time on this site is to not let propagandists to get away with their lies.

On Flags!

Several years ago, an American friend gave me an American flag for Christmas. I was surprised by the gesture, but thanked him all the same and told him I would send it to one of my nephews who lives in Iran and had asked me for one to take to the Friday prayer with him.

Upon hearing that the American friend was very pleased, so he said: "Wow that's neat. So, there are actually brave Iranians who take enemy flags with them to the Friday prayer?"

"Oh, sure, they burn 'em out there," I responded.

Nazy Jaan

Sepaas for sharing your story with us.I agree with dear bayramali that the 3 colors  & their true meaning are important.

Here is the story of my son :

We moved to America when he was 11 & he has brought with him a gift he got from a friend of mine who was like an uncle to him.It is a metal artwork in shape of a ship with the names of the profit & all Imams carved on it ( somehow representing the Noah Arc !).It is hung in his room .Neither me nor my son are religious !.On number of occasions I have asked him to replace it with something else,but he's refused & told me that he loves it!.I think this artwork  somehow represents his childhood memories which he still cherishes & doesn't want to forget !.In case of your dear son,I think the flag represents a good part of his memories of Iran,specially his classmates.To your son & mine who have no life history of pre-revolution era,I think,a flag has more nostalgic meaning rather a political one!.

best wishes

سه رنگ مقدس

سبزی هر چمن /سرخی خون من / سپیدی طلوع سحر به پرچمت نشسته

منهم از نسلی هستم که با پرچم جدید بزرگ شده ولی به شخصه پرچم قبلی را ترجیح میدهم  ولی به نظر من اینها مهم نیست. مهم آن سه رنگ مقدس است و مفهوم و ارزش آن پرچم برای ما ایرانیها و لذت خواندن آنکه پسرتان اینگونه عاشقانه این پرچم را دوست دارد. چند سطر آخر این نوشته اشک به چشمهای من آورد.  ممنون از این توصیف زیبا

Dear Mojtaba

And how am I putting my son down exactly? I am celebrating his coming of age as a proud Iranian by respecting his choices, feeling proud of him, and telling others about it. What part of this is hypocricy? Please elaborate your point.

Ms Kaviani You should be proud of your son

Instead of putting him down for his beliefs and love of his country's legitimate flag. Don't you think you are doing what you exactly preaching against, in other word, being hypocrite?

نازي خانم

براي ماها كه قبل از انقلاب در ايران بزرگ شديم، معني و مفهوم ايران و ايراني بودن كاملا فرق دارد با جواناني مثل پسر شما٠ بعقيده بنده، بهترين كاري كه ما ميتوانِم بكنيم اينست كه حتي المقدور ، تمام اصالت هاي خوب ايراني بودن را در جوانها تشويق كرده، و ميراث فرهنگي مان را هميشه ياد آور باشيم٠ .

Thank you Nazy jan

I don't know why I didn't get it at the first time ! Actually it was so obvious. It's right that sometimes I am off-track :O)

Now, this discussion with the other contributors, remind me of something similar. When Mrs Ansari travelled to space, she brought the current flag of Iran with herself. This had made many people angry, among them our dear RP.

At that time, I said, I could understand her action. Even if she might not agree with what is happening now inside of Iran, but the flag, represented her country, and at the moment she was taking that trip (unfortunately or not) that flag was the one of the IRI. I don't agree that a flag represent a government. A flag represent a country. 

Thank you

Dear Nkminea, Hakim, Mostafa, bajenaghe naghi, and IRANdokht:

Thank you for taking notice and for your mostly kind comments. The bittersweet realization which made me write this piece is that the sentiments and longings and confusions I have experienced as an Iranian in diaspora, have now passed on to my offspring. The new generation of Iranians, however, are less lost and confused than we were. They didn't see the things we saw and their frames of reference are limited to the one rule they have known in Iran. Even with the things they instinctively know about what is happening in Iran these days, they have decided to still love Iran. That to me is such a promising and hopeful thing.

Thank you again for your thoughtful remarks.

Dear Souri:

Thank you for your kind comment. The point of my last sentences was that I have come to understand that when my son was packing his things to take to his new life away from home, one of the things he had decided were important for him to have with him was his Iranian flag. He has taken a piece of his identity with him.

Dear Kind Samsam:

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. At the center of my hubmle piece lies a tale which bears ironic contrast to your thinking. I am writing about a confusion which now exists in my personal life, caused by changes in Iran which span a mere 30 years. I am an Iranian as is my son, and each of us hold different sentiments towards the Iranian flag.

Though I respect your determined efforts to remind us all of the grandeur of Iran and the less grand changes it has endured through the past several centuries, I find it highly impractical and unrealistic. Those less grand changes have happened and it is here and now that we must live and do everyday things, including parenting. It is here and now that we must find the language with which to talk to our children, to our peers and to our community. We can attempt to create a new language, new vocabulary, or try to rejuvenate old Persian language, flags, and symbols of civilization. But how realistic is that? To what end?

I believe if we choose a more pragmatic approach to communication, consistent with the realities of here and now, we might have a better chance of making a small dent in the communication gap we Iranians are suffering these days.

I thank you so very much for taking notice of the subject of my blog.

Dear Iva and sickofiri

I think the two of you missed the point of this personal story altogether. Since when does love for the flag of a country mean love for its rule and approval of its policies? An Iranian can love the Iranian flag without condoning Iran's rulers. The American flag brings tears of joy and pride to millions who don't agree with US' military policies.

My son is a young adult who now makes his own choices in life, and he chooses and thinks wisely. He and I are past the sitting down stage. When I did have a chance to teach my children anything, I taught them to love the two countries citizenships of which they hold, to be alert, and to be active in that love.

Since I have the rare pleasure of having the two of you in my humble post, I would like to discuss a point with the two of you. I am a registered member of this community, and I speak frequently and candidly about my life and my thoughts as an Iranian in diaspora.

The two of you are articulate and determined anonymous users of this community who show up to political posts and speak your minds. Respecting your rights in that capacity fully, I would like to remind you how ironic and out of place your criticisms look in a real person's space of thought and reflection. For me it feels like talking to the wind, not to real people. I think if you are serious and responsible people with serious things to say, you should first register with the site and gain a real, albeit anonymous identity. Explaining my political thoughts and parenting style to you two feels strange at best.

Get yourselves a registered identity and we can really talk.

Nazy jan

The flag is a symbol of the love and pride we feel for our country, whether it's the old one we used to raise at school every saturday morning, or the one the new generation does, it's meant to unite the people who feel that same passion.  The variables of the prints and the colors are just the signs of time, it's the purpose that counts.

The negative feelings that I feel towards the new flag is based on the yearning for the life we once had and lost. The new generation does not share those same feelings and it's understandable. It's also heartwarming to know your 22 yr old son has such a connection to Iran. Bless his heart.

IRANdokht

Nazy jan

I follow BN to say the same thing. I do agree with your son and admire his love for Iran. One question however, I didn't get the last part.

You said: 

"I didn’t need to ask him any questions. I knew what he wanted to do with an Iranian flag in his dorm room in college."

What you mean by this ? I still didn't get, what your son intend to do with the flag (the flag stayed in the drawer) would you please enlighten us ? Thanks.

Nazy jan

that was a terrific story about loving one's country. we are all Iranians and proud of it too. 

Is your son proud of what

Is your son proud of what that flag represents? Does he even know what the flag represents? Why does he think it represents Iran while under this flag Iran and Iranian culture have been systematically subverted?

Perhaps, he is proud of the Islamic Republic and its conduct....

Under that flag

The new symbol of Iranian flag which looks like a yellow crab is borrowed idea from Sikh of India. Some say the crab symbol represents that evil man's ancesterial connection as he was an Indian (I am not allowed to mention the evil man's name by orders of JJ).

Anyhow, had my son shown so much love for that symbol of a barbarc regime, I would have sat him down and explain to him what has happened to a proud nation, to its citizens, to its industry, culture, nature, agrigulture, etc. and how thousands were raped and killed under that flag either in prisons or hidden torture chambers.

All 3 , are Ommatist colonial flags

These are all, flags of shame & subjugation post-Sassanid .

Dear Ms Kaviani ;

Your family name , reminiscent of Drafsh Kaviani , is your answer.

//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/55/Derafshe_Kaviani.JPG

//iransara.info/a-fly09.jpg

It,s ironic that a nice lady with one of the most beautiful Iranic last names on this site , has a dilema about true flag of Iran . The so called tri color Iranian flag wether in Shah version or Seyed version has nothing to do with the spirit & legacy of true Iran . The Seyed flag's Pan-Ommatist message is self revealing & every time I have received one from my family , I make sure , to have good use for it as a kitchen cloth .

The so called Shahi version is nothing but mumbo jumbo of half-Ommatist colors & icons post-Qadesiyeh . Green is the color of Shia safavid , the lion was an addition by  Sultan Masoud Gaznavi, whose decision was merely a reflection of his personal habit of hunting lions & hence stayed an integral part of the flag for centuries to come (mullahs call it; Asadollah, Ali's lion) , the sword  is the Imam Ali Zolfaghar sword .

So as you see, IRV(IRI) is not the problem , Pan-Ommatism is . Keep Islam but bury Ommatism , and True flag & heritage will emerge one day . Sorry for the intrusion .

Best regards & keep well

نازي خانم

عشق و علاقه به كشور هيچ وقت كمبودي براي كسي ايجاد نمي كنه٠ حالا ميخواد اين آخوندا سر كار باشند، يا شاه٠ ايران ايرانه٠ وسلام

I have never received a flag as a gift

I just wondered why you guys receive flags for gifts? Are some sort of Flag lovers of sort? Just wondered!

Generation Gap

This is a touching story!