خاكِ پدران است كه دستِ دگران است

Oktaby jan: Thanks. You are

Oktaby jan: Thanks. You are the best.

Many thanks oktaby

Dear Vildemose, of course.

There is one more you may find useful: Economics of Oil crisis, beyond survival: Wage labor in the late twentieth century from Cyrus Bina 

And a list of Peak oil related books: //www.grinningplanet.com/environmental-books/peak-oil-books.htm 

OKtaby

Oktaby Jan: Do I have your

Oktaby Jan: Do I have your permission to use your links and post them as news?? Thanks.

Ari, here are two people/references I had promised

Fereydoun Khavand, author of 'le nouvel ordre commercial mondial' and Dr. P. Mina.

//www.roozonline.com/english/news/newsitem/article/2010/april/21//no-refineries-self-sufficiency-is-a-joke.html

//www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-13/iranian-subsidy-cuts-to-begin-in-september-ahmadinejad-says.html 

They all have several publications.You'll also find plenty of non-Iranians experts but typically the angle is Oil.

Here is a quote from Khavand on a specific Oil project: "Lost in their childish internal conflicts of conservatives fighting reformists and happy with their death to America, the Iranian clerical rulers lost this big game and with that, deprived the nation of billions of revenues" 

AlexInFlorida, the signs of economic ignorance were there from the beginning starting with dumping 'interest' only to bring it back with various names which now they don't even bother and call interest; but like everything else blamed on war, revolution,moon, wind...

OKtaby

This Article Answers What Iranians Really Want?

Now I know for sure How the Stupid Mullahs are.  Doesn't Koran teach them anything about economics?  I was just looking at picture of people picking rose petals in Iran.. like the Charleton Heston Movie Planet of The Apes. 

No wonder Islamic Republic is not economically even one tenth what they were before their pathetic and ridiculous revolution. 

From the stand point of freedom, its okay to pick flowers because you enjoy it as a hobby. 

Since of course when you have your health care, education, retirement, home and family responsibilities all taken care of and now freely choose to do this, why not. 

It is a ridiculous government that has most of the people out of work, and more than 1/3 in poverty and this is the only way to eat bread...... all after the country is receiving ten times more money from oil each year than the Shahs Government received in a single year... yet Shahs government made Iranians more than ten times wealthier and free'er than they are today on so much less. 

So What do Iranians want?

Just like 1979, these days its still what ever the Western Media Tells them.

A majority brought IRI to power and has kept them their... if you want to know how filthy and ridiculous the leaders that islam produces are just look at Iran. 

Now the Voice of America Broad cast says, Democracy, Barabari, Azadi ... baba goh khordim!  Magar enghad ahmag hastim hanooz. Unfortunately what the media pushes out has tremendous impact on both Khars and Iranians opinions.

Thank God Iran once used to have its own traditions and values separate to islam... Javid Shah!!!!!! Azadi. Azadi.. Azadi... ShahanShahi

I Still want the one form of government that puts Human Rights above All else.  Iranian Monarchies Future is bright.  We just need to go through another gentle awakening that may seem like pure discouragement until we discover we can not be traitors to our own culture, traitors to our national soul and traitors to the spirit of our ideals forever and hope to live a free and happy life.

For those of you still smoking on the democracy pipe just pause and reflect on the greatest periods of human rights in History... were they lead by republics, democracies or monarchies?  And Yes... take an especially close look at Rome during the period started by Augustus he was an absolute Monarch I love reminding everyone...as were his children and italian people  enjoyed the wealthiest, happiest, free-est, most safe time in their history.

The Shah was the last time we had where we all attempted to make sure the worth of one man and a woman was equal and all were equal before the law... no matter how rich you were.

Hey

lets just assume for a minute that it is Midwesty is right. Being friends with Israel pays. I would put it milder: not being enemies with Israel gets the USA off your back. Why shouldn't we make peace with Israel. What benefit is there for Iran in picking a fight with Israel anyway? It is not our problem. Palestinians are not our problem. Let them work out their problems. We must focus on keeping Islamists from killing our own people.

How many Iranians including children are regularly raped and murdered? All by the hand of Islamists. They are the real enemy not anyone else. Put you head out of the sand people and see the reality.

The best proof of Iran’s dismal growth is life in Tehran.

A young couple with bachelor degrees and a few years of work experience as schoolteachers would have a combined monthly income of about 1,000,000 tomans (the exchange rate is a little less than 1,000 tomans to $1)...

//www.insideiran.org/news/iran-experiences-steady-economic-downturn/ 

//www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/02/11/t...

//www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2010/01/22/irans_economic_freefall_97602.html 

//enduringamerica.com/2010/02/04/iran-analysis-the-missing-numbers-in-the-economy/ 

OKtaby

Israel=Turkey, Turkey=IRR, and that makes IRR=Israel

comrade, your logic is that Israel is the controlling power. This jives well with the long list of excuses from IRR, along with: we had a revolution', 'we had a war'...

Here is the problem with your thinking: Either israel is so powerful as you suggest to control how well these other nations do, or it is not.

If it is as powerful as you say, then is it not stupid to stand against it so openly? If it is not, then IRR is using it as a facade to mobilize people for their own purposes.

The countries you list, certainly have none of the massive social, political, economic, military and religious problems IRR has inflicted on Iran. And they all had massive wars, were piss poor, went through economic chaos, or other problems, but don't use it as an excuse to justify every atrocity and incompetence in the world.

You also suggest Turkey as Israel'd kiss ups. That is utter nonsense and does not jive with Turkeys global stance, clout and muscle including military.

Turkey is and has been a strong ally of IRR (one of very few countries not asking Iranians for Visas and not not giving refugees a formal status), has gotten richer off Iran like many others, and standing squarely against any sanctions and supporting Iran's Nuclear stance. By your logic:

Israel=Turkey, Turkey=IRR, and that makes IRR=Israel

the last part of that equation has been rue from the time before 79 mutiny when Mosad helped with Shah's overthrow into war with Iraq when they were suppliers of eggs and tanks, to today where they have all kinds of synergistic activity and trade including putting on fatal but entertaining shows in south Lebanon. Both natanyaboo and AN can go back to their people and say: I told you these are terrorists or imperialists which is increasingly synonymous anyways.

It is ok if you want to be nostalgic for an idea that has had a persistent hand in Iran's misery, and failed miserably as a superpower. But it is no reason to make novice statements that have no basis in political or economic arena, or any basis in fact.

What you refer to as a problem with list of countries, is globally considered good, intelligent relations and politics. 

OKtaby

comrade

those were the days that cuba was hostile toward israel. as they say: it becomes easier, as you get older, to drown in nostalgia. 

"Why isn't Argentine, Turkey, South Korea, Japan.."

What a coincidence? All, somewhat, friends of Israel!!

'real per capita income in 2007 was about same as 1979'

"Iran’s economic failures are largely self-inflicted. The country’s less
than stellar economic performance is well documented: real per capita
income in 2007 was about what it was at the time of the revolution in
1979; income distribution is worse today; unemployment and inflation
rates probably exceed 20 and 30 percent respectively; there have been
natural gas shortages for winter home heating and electricity shortages
for summer cooling; the social infrastructure to provide universal
access to health care and higher education is inadequate; dire
government budgetary pressures are necessitating a drastic cut-back in
consumer subsidies that have sustained the poor; and rapidly declining
foreign exchange reserves...."

//www.insideiran.org/news/iran%E2%80%99s-econ...

jamshid, funny ghazvin analogy.

OKtaby

Midwesty

"you deny the share of embargo and sanctions and wars.... "

And it looks like you are denying the share of IRI's self destructive foreign policies and ideologies that created those embargo and sanctions in the first place.

Why isn't Argentine, Turkey, South Korea, Japan, Brazil, Armenia and a host of other countries being sanctioned? Why can't we be like the rest of the many successful countries of the world? 

"Iran with or without IRI is on the rise. That's what they don't want."

Who is "they"? Why Japan, South Korea, India and many other countries, including the pre-revolution Iran managed to rise without "they" being able to do jack about it?

Could it be because they had responsible governments who worked for the interests of their people instead of the interests of their ideology?

And regarding war, could "they" do anything about it at all, when Khomeini decided to drink from its jaame zahre maar and end the war in 1988? Could they have forced Iran to continue for another 8 years? The answer is no.

Could "they" have done anything about it if Khomeini had drunk from his jaame zahre maar in 1982 instead, when Iran could have even received war reparations? The answer is again, no.

So whose fault was it that the war continued for another 6 years? Saddam who was more than eager to end the war and offered peace in 1982? Arab countries who were willing to even pay the bill for war reparations? The US? The Soviets? The Zionists perhaps? Who else was at fault, but the IRI itself?

Whose fault was it that Iran had to endure hundreds of thousands of more deads as well as other incalculable non-life damages? Whose fault was it that we still have tens of thousands of disabled veterans?

The eternally damned Khomeini and his government, that's who.

Today, Iran could have been ahead of Spain and South Korea. But we are where we are because of the IRI willingly bending over and getting shafted by all walks of countries.

If you are a skinny guy and go to Ghazvin and take off your short and bend over while beating your chest and saying nafaskesh, F..K all Ghazvinians, what do YOU think will happen next, and who is to be blamed?

oktaby-- don't mean to intrude but do you know

what cats use to self-clean themselves!?

GN Midwesty!

GN Midwesty!

Midwesty, the flaw is with your assertion

Not my assumption. Iranians were fooled and there is plenty of evidence (read my other blogs/comments on the subject including those referred earlier). A people fooled does not mean they are stupid. Americans were fooled by Bush at least twice. It simply means they were fooled. In case of America, they voted him out of office. In Iran's case we are prisoners until we break out.

As for unity, I do not know what your point is. We certainly had none of issues and concerns from various independence and separatist movements, to a polarized, scarred country.

On your confidence and technician comment: There is no evidence to support your assertion. Pre 79 we had S. Koreans working in Iran. Today we have Korea as a major hi-tech and industrial power house. And we were expanding in all aspects and were plenty confident and getting more so before IRR. The pre-79 Iranians in U.S. and Europe and what they have accomplished is an indicator. They had plenty of confidence and certainly I lacked none when my father sent me here to get a first rate education. What I have accomplished here I would have preferred to do at home. We collectively could have taken Iran to the moon and back by now.

And GN to you 

OKtaby

Good discussion all!

Thanks and good night!

Vildemose jan,

First of all good read. If IRI is a Clientelist regime then we can be happy to be like Italy one day.

And regarding your question, If the engineers and techs are here to bring technology and keep it in their closed circle without sharing with Americans then yes, it is or will be a problem.

yes it does

when you import you have no other choice.

The US imports nurses,

The US imports nurses, pharmacists, IT engineers from India, Phillipine, Thialand, etc. (e.g. Just looks the number of H1B visas) Does that mean the Americans   are not confident to produce engineers, pharmacists? Hardly!

Iran is not a unified

Iran is not a unified power.

No one said it was. Good read on IRI power structure below. There are fundamental  structural problems within this system that are preventing Iran to reach its economic independence and security and unless these structural problems are overhauled nothing will change. 

God wears boots
Analysis

March 29, 2006
iranian.com 

"The Power Structure of the Islamic Republic of Iran: transition from populism to clientelism, and militarization of the government" published in Third World Quarterly (December 2005). Full text PDF

I meant ...

The foreign workers!

Oktaby,

I didn't answer your question did I?

Iranians are more confident now to generate things. We didn't have that confidence before. We had to bring workers and technicians to help us build but we are doing it now on our own.

Re: No one wants Iran to rise. That is the point

I wouldn't go that far. Most nations don't care if we rise. The reality is that no one is forcing IRI to behave the way it does. We as a nation need to take responsibility. It was our national choice in 1979 to follow Khomeini. We could have opted for Bakhtiar. Sure the BBC did its best to brainwash us but we did not have to fall for it.

There was also MKO which had its own idiot followers by choice.

We need to learn not to follow horrible leaders. If we as a nation pick better leaders no body will be able to stop us. Japan and Germany both got occupied by powers who explicitly wanted to keep them from rising. But by picking good leaders they rose anyway.

The IRI is on its way out people all know it. Will Iran pick another  horrible system?

I hope not but it will be us not anyone else's fault.

VPK

Oktaby,

Your assuption on IRI has couple of basic flaws. IRI is not a unified body of power and Iranian people are not that dumb and passive.

 As the most successful

 IRI, As the most successful creation of imperialism it cannot be a servant of Iran.

Too true and depressing.

Midwesty, we agree on that one.

and how exactly the islamist rapism has helped us get any closer to that illusive independence?

At least before we had to only only worry about westerners and were getting close to it. Now we have to worry about the chokehold molas have put on the nation too. On our hearts, minds, women, children and thoughts.

No apologies necessary. 

OKtaby

Agreed...

my apologies

Oktaby,

We cross posted...What you said I understand...Don't have any answer for it since the freaking West is not leaving us alone to think about it.

ok Midwesty, you buy that argument

 And who funded Khomeini?

Keep the sarcasm out. Lets keep it professional. There is no reason to suggest western or eastern loving. I could readily accuse you of being a closet islamist.

OKtaby