Fighting Words

Niloufar

You say that loveofliberty is Fascist.

Dig beh dig migeh root siah.

I think you are more fascist than anybody else. Look who is talking. You actually support hezbollah and those rapists and terrorists ruling our beloved country of Iran.  That is a shame.

Fair - you said it all

The greens did not lose fair and square.  Nothing in that barbaric regime is fair and square,

Well said, well said. 

VPK & Vildemose

VPK: while it's true that dicatirships fall, some last longer than others.  For instance, the Soviet Union compared to Tunisia.  The IR is more like the USSR than it is Tunisia.  It's power structure is defued somehwat and that helps it survive challenges.  Read the article that Vildemose posted.  

Vildemose: Thanks for posting the artcile.  I think that it pretty much (with a little added stuff)  says the same things that I said here.  It's a good piece though, and everyone whould read it.  

fascist regime in Iran far more brutal than Hosni

regime in Egypt.  Both are dictatorships, but on a completely different scale.  Hosni said he will step down, the army has vowed to respect the people's rights, and it is just a question of when and how the transition occurs.  This is something ALL sides in Egypt agree on.

By contrast, the VF after a week of protests openly declared war on the Iranian people, the regime's army (IRGC and other related organs) openly attacked the Iranian people, did not acknowledge even one iota their demands or legitimacy, the "president" called the people "dirt and dust", and show trials, organized rape, torture, destruction of the press, and executions for "fighting with God" followed.

There is just absolutely no comparison.  Those shameless IRI stooges who come here and try to argue otherwise can do so until they are blue in the face, but it is funny how lies have difficulty sticking.  They will fail as they always have in every other arena.  What to expect from shameless hypocrite thugs, who use the freedom of speech afforded to them to advocate a regime which is the planet's biggest enemy of freedom of speech. To such thugs I say khar khodetooneen, Baghdad Bob yeh zarash meearzeed beh shoma.

The greens did not lose fair and square.  Nothing in that barbaric regime is fair and square, when a council of unelected insiders denies the right to even run in the first place to hundreds of candidates, and allows 4 candidates to run- 2 high ranking IRGC officers, a former prime minister, and a cleric, all fiercely loyal to Khomeini,  and hardly a representative of the Iranian society. 

HHH,

HHH: "The regime consists of religious, criminal & immoral thugs. The opposition consists of intellectuals, the rich and the students. How can a nice, clean-cut student beat thugs in a face-to-face fight? He can't."

I think it is a fact of human nature that it is not the people who are willing to compromise who force change to occur but, instead, it is the people who are unwilling to compromise who force change to occur.

(Perhaps, this is why revolutions are typically driven by people who hold, relatively speaking, more radical positions rather than more moderate positions.)

So, if you ask me, if the Iranian people want to force change in their nation, they will essentially have to become more uncompromising-more radical-than the Iranian regime itself.

Otherwise, I think the Iranian regime will always have the upper hand, so to speak. 

IR is

Only Iran and RG and HHH:

Only Iran and RG and HHH: Here is great article on why Iranian GM failed?

//iranprimer.usip.org/blog/2011/jan/25/why-tunisia-and-not-iran

"opposition consists of intellectuals, the rich and students"

Wrong and untrue!

 In fact labour movement, from car industry to bus drivers to oil workers are very much at odds with the islamist regime. Many of labour Union leaders are languishing in islamist regimes torture chambers. Hardly a day goes by when there are not labour unrests happening in Iran. this will definitely intensify as the effect of the removal of subsidies are felt amongst the poor and dispossesed.

The fact the "green movement" failed in engaging the working classes by means of effective strikes, despite massive participation of the poor in post election demos, is another separate story.

Otherwise you are right in implying at least that this islamist dicatorship will not go without:

a) direct participation of organised labour.

b) peacefully.

Time for "peaceful Demonstrations" in Iran  was over 30 years ago.

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Not Exactly But Close

The main reason why Iranian anti-regime can't win is this:

The regime consists of religious, criminal & immoral thugs.

The opposition consists of intellectuals, the rich and the students.

How can a nice, clean-cut student beat thugs in a face-to-face fight?

He can't.

So what is the solution to this problem?

The solution is this: FIGHT WOLVES LIKE WOLVES, WITH TEETH AND BLOOD.

You can't beat IRI by demonstrations alone, not even by breaking windows and burning tires, you can only fight and win by getting armed and by standing against the Pasdar & Baseeji forces. Then Army, Police and Airforce will join the people and WE WIN.

By demonstration alone count on 15,000,000 people before regime gives up peacefully and no less.

What is quite funny in NP's arguments

is that she talks about Egyptian parties not being allowed to participate in elections while she conveniently (but not surprisingly) "neglects" to mention the hundreds of candidates for Iran's elections who were rejected by the Guardian Council before the elections.

But what else can we expect from her...really... 

Roozbeh & Love of Libery - What you are witnessing here

Is a desperate regime operative who has been faced with reality and facts, and who has realized that her diversion tactics, double talk, regime manufactured non-existent data from "Tehran Times" (LOL!!), as we say in Farsi "inja kharidar nadareh."  That's why she's going bezzerk with the name calling and personal attacks.

You have to also consider the mentality.  These regime agents are intoxicated with power, and are used to having their way with the people.  So, the minute you confront them, they go nuts.  They just cannot imagine their rule and word being questioned by anyone...let alone an "insignificant" average Iranian.  That's why you see the psychotic rage that they display when confronted with facts and reason.

Pretty interesting stuff!!    

islamist Dreams R us!

A badly shattered dream! 

Regardless of Ismaist fascist regime's paid agents  howling from Tehran to iranian.com, the islamist regime of Iran is terrified with events in egypt, tunisia elswhere. The recent mass execution of political prisoners in Iran are desparate attemts of this corrupt, incompetent, fascist dictatorship to frighten the Iranian people into submission.

But these islamist fascists will fail and Iranian people shall prevail. One day democracy and rule of law will be established in Iran instead of the mob rule of a gang of nuke crazed , hatefull  islamist terrorists. Just a matter of time...

Now let the islamist regime's west residing paid lap poodles howl as loud as they want in anger and frustration on iranian.com, much to our collective joy and amusement! 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

loverofliberty

sorry kid but you tried to pretend that iran and egypt are equally undemcratic.

this is an utter lie based on the type of misinformation that warmongering fascists like you perpetrate in order to hide their thirst for blood. 

you for example believe the illegal american attack against iraq was justified and for the greater good. this makes you a dangerous fascist like hitler who thought a world war was for the greater good of mankind.

and you are also being a dangerous fascist in trying to imply that iran is as undemocratic as egypt. either you are simply ignorant, or you are both a liar and a sick fascist at the same time.

thing is, sick fascists tend to be liars

Niloufar Parsi,

Niloufar Parsi: "what's the matter kid? you seem a little upset at being caught out with your deception."

Well, the supposed deception by me is only your own delusion.

[Does calling someone "kid" really help support your argument(s)?]

loverofliberty

what's the matter kid? you seem a little upset at being caught out with your deception.

nice weekend!

Niloufar Parsi,

Well, once again, it was YOU who claimed that "mubarak could never win an election," even though that is exactly what he allegedly did in 2005, at least according to the Egyptian government.

And, it is just as much a "fact" that Mubarak won the 2005 Egyptian presidential election as it is that Ahmadinejad won the 2009 Iranian presidential election...particularly being that neither of those two elections had independent, non-government oversight that could have verified the "fairness" and results of those elections.

So, once again, it is YOU who is being deceptive here, not I.

End of story...

loverofliberty

i think i have exposed yoru deceptive character enough for one week, what do you think?

i really can't be bothered to teach you how to use english correctly too. but we both know that your deceptive tactics have moved to semantics now...

Niloufar Parsi,

Well, it was YOU who claimed that "mubarak could never win an election."

So, if you were actually aware that Mubarak (supposedly) won the 2005 Egyptian presidential election, at least according to the Egyptian government, and regardless of whether or not that election was truly "fair" or not, then, indeed, it is YOU who is trying to be deceptive here, not I.

And, if you ask me, there is no way to accurately determine how "fair" or "unfair" either the 2005 Egyptian presidential election was or the 2009 Iranian presidential election was simply because, as far as I can tell, there was no independent, non-government oversight throughout either of those elections.* 

So, for BOTH the 2005 Egyptian presidential election AND the 2009 Iranian presidential election, the "fairness" of those elections was simply determined by how "fair" those same governments claimed those elections to be.

In fact, without independent, non-government oversight, one could say Egypt's 2005 presidential election and all of Iran's 10 presidential elections have been fraudulent...or that all were fair. We just don't know because those elections weren't, simply put, transparent.

Anyway, once again, it is you, indeed, who is trying to be deceptive here, not I.

*(The Egyptian government did allow NGO's to oversee their 2005
presidential election, but only at the last minute and on the actual election day itself.)

loverofliberty

this is where the ignorance and deception of extreme right-wingers like you shines most brilliantly.

first, the 2005 presidential elections in egypt were the first multi-party one ever in the country's history, but of course you are writing as if this was just another presidential election in egypt. this is deceptive of you especially when we are comparing the two regimes' democratic credentials. one has had regular elections for over three decades without fail, and another that has had a single one, and a very shaky one too. why do you even imagine these two cases are comparable?

second, the largest egyptian party was not allowed to participate in the 2005 election. you forgot to mention?!

third, several others boycotted the vote. here's wiki's segment on the issue:

Some of the main legal opposition parties, including the leftist Tagammu Party and the Nasserist Party, boycotted the election,
saying it is unlikely to be free or fair. Those opposing the election
say the electoral reforms have not gone far enough because the election
regulations severely restrict independent candidates and overwhelmingly
favour the NDP.

Secondly, the Muslim Brotherhood,
believed to be the most popular opposition group in Egypt, was excluded
from running in the elections because Mubarak's government has made it
officially illegal and barred from major political processes. Supporters
of the Brotherhood and other opposition parties state that this
undermines the credibility of the election.

In addition, there appeared to be official harassment of the leading
opposition candidate Nour, who was stripped of his parliamentary
immunity and arrested on January 2005, on what many observers regarded
as trumped-up charges. He was imprisoned for a short time that year
before public and international outcry resulted in his release before
trial.

The New Wafd Party and the Tomorrow (Ghad) Party contested the election even though they had opposed the May 2005 constitutional referendum, and their respective candidates, Numan Gumaa and Ayman Nour, drew significant support -- Nour won 12% and Gumaa won 5-7%.

Niloufar Parsi,

Niloufar Parsi: "mubarak could never win an election."

Well, he did supposedly win the 2005 multi-candidate Egyptian Presidential election:

"Incumbent President Mohamed Hosni Mubarak won a new presidential term in the country's first multi-candidate presidential elections, which took place on September 7. Hosni Mubarak attained 88.57% of the vote (6,316,784 ballots), and was followed by Ayman Nour with 7.58% and Noman Gomaa with 2.93% of the vote. Voter turnout was 22.95%. International monitors were not allowed to observe the vote. Domestic NGOs were given permission to monitor the electoral process only one day before the election."

(//www.electionguide.org/country-news.php?ID=6...)

And, just like Iran's last two presidential elections, there where allegations of that election as being unfair in some ways.

loverofliberty

mubarak could never win an election. but ahmadinejad could and did. twice. he's quite popular in egypt too. why spread lies?

Niloufar Parsi,

Niloufar Parsi: "the greens LOST the elections in iran fair and square. but their anti-democratic character led them to rioting. it is a shameful and selfish attack on a fragile semi-democracy in iran. we should instead learn to behave democratically."

Well, Hosni Mubarak won the multi-party Egyptian Presidential Election of 2005.

And, both that election and Iran's Presidential Election of 2009 were alleged to be fraudulent in some ways.

But, perhaps today we should inform Egyptian rioters that their (supposedly) anti-democratic rioting is a (supposedly) shameful and selfish attack on the fragile semi-democracy of Egypt.

After all, those rioting Egyptians should (supposedly) "learn to behave democratically".

Isn't that right NP?

<<<<ROLLS EYES>>>>

Only Iran : you're taking Abji Medusa too seroiusly, she/he is

so much more jaded, cynical and burned out, than you migh think.

It's all about, and it  all involves building a  "secure future" with the powers that be

(Islamic Republic today, whoever comes afterward). Just pay a little bit of attention to her language , her/his idiom and the sensitivities, the " structure of feeling" if you will.

This is all clearly work of a "pen for hire," there are other colorful names for it , but I leave that to your imagination, or may be not. Actually your imagination has lot more important things to do than paying attention to a third rate, fourth rate "propagandist."

How about this, let's imagine: soreh, soreh, hata al nasr.

fair, you have your eyes shut?

first hand account of individuals in exile or even on the streets of cairo or tehran? good luck in turning such anecdotal accounts into a convincing set of conclusions that apply to all or even a simple majority alike. i would certainly take such conclusions with a pinch of salt.

for a more birds-eye view of what's happening and how everyone is affected you may wish to turn away from youtube and twitter and to run checks across different sources with a comparative and reasonably objective approach. one of these sources would be official figures.

btw, most statistics published in the world by national and international organisations are based on official figures. those that are not are seen as fringe data that cannot be taken too seriously.

the refinery report may be bogus as you claim, but you need to show me why you claim that and i will concede in such a case. it would not be the first time that a bogus report was published in iran or elsewhere!

but your emphasis on the number of barrels the report refers to is a non sequitur. it could be a simple printing error or even a mistake in the figures, or even your own error - i am not sure. what i am more sure about is that what you say is not a basis for dismissing the story. you are just playing an old trick. Iran already HAS several sites and industries that are the largest in the region. Car production is one. Nanotechnology is another. Stem cell research is another. Now oil refining is likely to become another.

you have no reasonable excuse for dismissing ALL official  announcements out of hand - just as you are doing now about the refinery report. this is an act of deception regularly practiced by iranian exiles. it is tiring to witness it all the time. i for one am sick of it and have decided to speak up against all such lies. for example:

- the greens LOST the elections in iran fair and square. but their anti-democratic character led them to rioting. it is a shameful and selfish attack on a fragile semi-democracy in iran. we should instead learn to behave democratically.

- iranian science and technology is among the fastest growing in the world. this is attested to by all scientific journals. but iranian exiles have made such habitual liars of themselves that they will deny such scientific truths without thinking twice.

- the iranian economy has made good progress in the past two decades or so. it has proven resilient to foreign plots and sanctions. iran is a regional leader is several sectors, as described above.

iranian exiles lie about these points all the time. Some are now predicting an economic meltdown this year. last year they predicted a political meltdown. this year it is economic. we will see.

i am trying to be fair to iran. she deserves it.

quite a

fascist rationale that cannot tolerate opposing world views, onlyiran.

NP

How about first hand accounts from Egyptians from all walks of life, as well as others close to me who have lived there and speak fluent Arabic?  Not to mention publicly available information which you can easily look if you choose.

So your experience in the last 30 years pushes you to choose "official IRI figures" over what "ignorant Iranians abroad" have to say?  I must say, that points to massive ignorance of your own.  Just today you posted a BOGUS report from IRI promising a refinery that will do 2 million bpd, almost twice as large as the world's largest refinery,  and soon after do 16 million bpd, just about as much as the entire USA.  What a joke, you and your "official figures" and your "semblance of truth".  If that were the case, then Iran would today indeed be the freest country in the world, which is also the official claim by (I guess informed?) Iranians in the government.

Now as long as you say that Iranians should not have to settle for less, then we are on the same page.  Iranians should not be expected to sell ourselves short, and there is nothing wrong with any Iranian demanding the stepping down of VF and that bankrupt, corrupt system in Iran, which is MUCH more brutal than Egypt or any other government in the middle east.  If you indeed are interested in in the actual turn of events, you would deduce that after this regime's bahavior- the suppression of millions of Iranians in the street, the widespread rape, torture, execution, imprisonment without trial, oppression of journalists, you name it.  In any of those areas, the islamic republic has outdone Mobarak.  Mobarak today said he would not continue after September after only 6 days of protests in Egypt.  What did Khamenei do after 6 days of protest in Iran?  Any such thing? NO.  He declared war on the Iranian people, and told them they have it coming, and they sure did.  Today Mobarak is history, but Khamenei and his son and his thugs are still in power, spilling the blood and lives of Iranians while you try to whitewash them as being not brutal and having "semblance of truth".  

THAT is the actual turn of events NP, if you are interested.  Open your eyes.

Well, the rationale is that no sane human being

would ever support and propagate for the Islamic Republic with the passion that you do day in and day out--unless, of course, huge sums of money are involved, for which human beings have been known to sell their souls. The emphasis in this concept--as you can see--is on the phrase "human being." So, if there is no money involved, perhaps you shouldn't be counted as a part of that phrase. :-))

it's only u

who would even consider 'making a buck' in this situation. i guess integrity is a foreign concept to u?

No, not hell on Earth, just a brutal regime

and no amount of double talk, diversion, "naneh man ghareebam," warmongering, wishful thinking, fantasy, creation of imaginary bogeymen, grandstanding, propaganda and, in general, "masst maali", can take away from that fact.  

Good luck, though.  I'm in favor of everyone, including you, making a buck! :-))

onlyiran

yeah i know. iri is hell on earth. blah blah. same old.

let's see how it all turns out. mobarak iis almost gone. let's see what happens in iran with the anniversary coming up.