Oon Yaroo

Mash: The word "Group" and

Mash: The word "Group" and the word "Culture". .....

I do not think there is are any official groups as suxh in Iranian culture let alone sub-culture.

Ali Mostofi

//twitter.com/alimostofi

sub-culture: the culture of a distinguishable smaller group.

That's the short answer, a more comprehensive one could be seen below:

CULTURE

//pubpages.unh.edu/~dml3/880williams.htm

This essay by the late Raymond williams goes over the history of the term, word CULTURE in English language, and towards the end argues for the concept and term of 'sub-culture'  as a product of cultural anthropolgy. Hope that helps.

Raymond Williams was an amazing writer, almost every single book by him is a masterpiece.

Mash: why do you call it

Mash: why do you call it sub-culture?

Ali Mostofi

//twitter.com/alimostofi

...

how about if ARKH is changed to: authoritarian, mal-deveolpment, with regular doses of assasinations and heavey handed style.

"The Other Narrative" in here would basically consist of: The sum total of all humanitarian, rational, worthwhile cultural heritage we have had since times immemorial; starting with Zoroastrian thought, before it was corrupted as state religion, moving to Islam: here we've always had a very fecund 'mystical' humanitarian tradition: Molana, Attaar,.. Saaedi and others as VPK mentioned. Though some might consider Saaedi compared to Hafez, conservative and statues-quo.

For the past 150 years, we have had a 'modern' continuation of these 'sub-cultures' (influenced by and in respons to European Modernity), within a humanitarian, rational, national dicourse: expanding from modern Persian poetry, literature and arts, to basically all democratic modern movements.

Sorry for the long-winded reply.

MG Jan

I agree with about 80% of what you said and second the request by Alimostofi. But the bit about Reza Adolph is a bit too much. Nevertheless you got a right to your opinion and I agree with the other 80%. Remind us of Rumi; Saadi and 

ذهن شاگرد خنگ فاجعه است

موسیقی نیز سیاست میتواند باشد
ولی بسیار فراتر از این حرفهاست ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hamishe Dar Moraje'e Ast

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P-hd5wLkrQ&feature...

Mash: please expand on the

Mash: please expand on the other narrative

Ali Mostofi

//twitter.com/alimostofi

...

Mirza jan, all due respect you're also generalising a little bit.

Iran has gone through more catastrophic discontinuities than probably any other location: cross road of the world. Concurrent with your list from Iranian Adam o Hava up to now, please also add: pillage by a Macedonean bi-sexual, further pillage by Arabs, yet further help by Mongols, then we get to the 20th century, one democratic state after another, adolph reza khan, shah, khomeini.

Though one could argue that the dominant side of Iranian culture is consevative, violent and authoritarian, yet this same history and culture also has, at every stage had a 'sub-culture,' as opposed to the dominant-culture: not exactly an lternative, but sort of a  "the other" narrative, if you will.

So music is politics. is

So music is politics. is that what you are saying. Ghormeh Sabzi is politics.

Ali Mostofi

//twitter.com/alimostofi

No: you cannot disconnect political Iran from cultural Iran

Bad Stories for Bad Kids

Shazde: so you mean non

Shazde: so you mean non cultural Iran? More political Iran.

Ali Mostofi

//twitter.com/alimostofi

By "Collective Iran" I mean ...

Khamenei

Khomeini

M.R. Shah

Mosaddegh

Reza Shah

Qajar

Afshar

Safavid

...

Esfandiar

Kavoos

Rostam

...

Iranian Adam va Havva!

Shazde: what do you mean by

Shazde: what do you mean by "Iran"? .......

Do you mean non political Iran? Or do you mean The Hezbollah Party in Iran?

Non political Iran has no qualms.

Ali Mostofi

//twitter.com/alimostofi

I think that the answer is NO

"Have Iranians reached the ... maturity to once and for all reconcile their differences with the West in order to become a ... respectable member on the international stage?"

Very good question to ask and to expect an answer for. However, in my humble opinion the answer is ... NO, NO, NO!

We have never been wrong ... why should we appologize for anything?

West is the origin and root of all evil ... why would we want to reconcile?

We've always been a closed and xenophobic society; why change now? 

If one carefully studies the Iranian element, it becomes clear that we have never in our long history ever accepted, reconciled, negotiated, partnered ... with anyone or anything ... unless forced at the abyss of total destruction.

The only thing that the "Collective Iran" understands is the Brute Force.

VPK

I requested you look it up in the dictionary and you say you googled it. Let’s see what the dictionary say about the word “compensate.”

Compensate. 1. To make up for or offset; counterbalance. 2. To make equivalent or satisfactory reparation to, recompense or reimburse. [New College Edition. The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language].

Fanoos

What better gesture and friendlier approach than erecting status of the American hostages decorated with American flags, flowers, and people's well-wishes, let's say, right at the entrance of the American embassy in Tehran?

Now you are talking good ideas and make sense. It will go a very long way towards reconciliation. Yes it will bring a ton of tourists and will make headlines. Great practical idea and I very much approve of it.

Bahram G

I Googled "commensurate compensation" and the only thing I found it about salary. Therefore it would be nice if you explained what you mean. Please remember I read your post but don't have time to research all the details.

In America specially after the Persepolis artifacts business it means money. Not just with Iran but with regards to all kinds of things. Therefore I would respond with another suggestion to be very clear as what you mean.

Respectfully, VPK.

Iranians can be the darling of Americans!

I do share others' sentiments in making genuine and conciliatory symbolic gestures to the American government and people! Such gestures, if chosen wisely and carefully, can have long and profound positive effects both on Americans and Iranians alike.

After the IRI regime is dismantled and replaced with a democratic and responsible government, Iranians will honor and celebrate the lives of their compatriots who fell victims to the regime over the past 33 years.

What better gesture and friendlier approach than erecting status of the American hostages decorated with American flags, flowers, and people's well-wishes, let's say, right at the entrance of the American embassy in Tehran?

Can you imagine the number of American tourists and revenue this move can attract? Iranians can be the darling of Americans! The opportunities are boundless!

VPK

Please look up "compensation" in the dictionary. In no way the term implies exclusively a monetary payment. I specifically said "commensurate compensation." Would you please read what I wrote more carefully and see that I also admitted that I had no idea how and in what form injustices can be redressed.
A friendly suggestion. Give people and their writings the benefit of the doubt and don't latch on the things that are not there.
Bahram g

Dear Bahram G

No I disagree with compensation. There is a lot of guilt to go around the world and all nations have done bad things. If you open the free money thing there is no end to law suites and counter law suites.

Native Americans; Africans; victims of flight 655; victims of 911; Palestinian refugees; Israeli victims; victims of Contras; Japanese internment victims; 1953 coup victims you name it!. No *** way. There is a difference in expressing regret  and giving  free money.

I absolutely oppose any kind of monetary damage for any of the above.  Yes to apology and no to lawyer happy field day law suit fest. The result is going to be opposite of what I want. Instead of reconciliation you get anger; and resentment.

Oon Yaroo Jaan

I am not sure if an apology is either requested by the US or needed. But hopefully in the future when Iran is governed by decent and capable people, they can come out and state all the wrongs of the past and promise to put all that behind, move forward and become a distinguished member of the community of nations.

In the case of the hikers or other innocent people that were kept for months and years, Iranians should invite them to their homes and show them a good time, as we are all capable of doing.

Terrorists made to look

Terrorists made to look Iranian .....

When a bank robber starts to get the President's ear, you know that the robber is the owner of the bank. Jimmy Carter started to deal with The Hezbollah Party in Iran and that made the Party look legit. It put the real Iranians out of the picture. The real opposition was not allowed to show the proper face of Iran. Now the sitation with UN and nukes makes it worse. So it is not what the opposition is doing or not doing or how bad we Iranians abroad are. It is the fact that US government wants to keep The Hezbollah Party ib Iran as representing Iranians.

Ali Mostofi

//twitter.com/alimostofi

Thanks Oon Yaroo jaan

For marking the shameful criminal occasion and speaking so adroitly for many of us. I may add that apologizing in many instances falls way short of the mark. What's required is administration of commensurate compensation. I'm not sure how that can be done, particularly by a gang of conscience-less vicious Islamist who are the culprit.
Sadly, the list of the crimes committed by these creatures is so long that they cannot even begin to redress their heinous deeds against people. Only the upright children of Iran are able to admit the wrongdoing and apologize for the crimes committed in their nation's name. Yes, I do join all who found the action barbaric and I do extend my deepest sincere apology to the victims, their families, and all Americans. That's all we can do at this point.
BA ASHVAGH GHALBI DOOST GERAMI
K

HIstory is long and abounds with mutual grivences!

  For those of us who have a less than perfect memory I'd like to mention the following incident.

      Iran Air Flight 655 was shut down with 290 passengers by USS Vincennes warship in Persian Gulf.

Rea - my brother samsam is correct

His comments are meant to be de-coded by non Hafez worshipping, realistic Iranians who see Iran through a heavy duty, industrial strength "sheikhak" filter.  We detect them a mile away, even if they're wrapped in a Kiaani flag.  We can smell what's inside. :-))

samsam lives on!!!!! 

Madmoisselle Rea,

My comments are meant to be decode only by my kiaani pals :) & not the lost in 7th cloud crowd of status quo. But you being an honarary kiaani gal I decode it for ya.. It means that in our Omaruphil culture we,ve been ruled & abused by a foreign based  culture & it's alien tyrants for so long that we,ve developed a natural passive tolerance of the Lamb in the shape of accomodating the abuser either by poetry, denile or voluntary amnesia in our daily lives. 14 centuries have passed & this is now, not a matter of a  mere transient trend but DNA factor passed on by consecutive shaikhak generation to the next . We,ve been desensitized to self-deceit for so long that we are alien to the very idea of "responsible citizenship" accountable for our action. Hence the convenience of "scapegoating" technology that we have mastered. Hope it helped ::))).

Cheers Miss !!!

Just to say hello to SamSam

Da Vinci Code is nothing in comparison to your comments. ;o))

Thx, O.Yaroo

Wiki is not what I call informative link.

But your reasoning is highly appreciated. That is what makes all the difference btwn you/I/we and Borg. 

Late here, nite.

PS. as to my question and the Iranian collective wisdom, DK's input would be enlightening. If we are lucky enough, he'll put a word in.

who!!,what!! which!!,,,wasn't me..it was IRI...lol

& %98 babaiiiiizzz followed that mullah as I remember vividly like a herd of Goats to the promise land of  Imam's "death to America". Nowadays the same Omaru /ommatie culprits have become the patron saints of  tolerance , non-violence& humanity and point the finger at the same Imam they once followed...As my brother AO pointed out so wisely that in the land of  Al Shaikh Hafiz & Shaikh Saadi its never "our" fault & "shakht nagir baraadar, khodesh khosh misheh miofteh". & Its been like that since the days of Omar & Salman which this land got F***ed for eternity.  & it shall always be like that until the last of the herd of modern Neo-Salmans die of natural or un-natural causes. This dual-existence/identity of denial & passive lamb syndrome  cant last forever .

Oon Yaroo, great blog & many Cheers pal!!!

oon yaroo

I'm only a part-time pleb, not so keen on other plebs on a Saturday night. I NEVER venture out on a Saturday night, except to feed the horses.

Ewwwaaaawwww

Jeegar? LOL!!!