Shamefully Yours

My dear Cap'n, let me try to explain someting to you about the

dynamics of the thrread in question

almost everyone came there with the intention of grieving and even the ones who were angry because all this grieving was for her and nto for all the countless others, they were grieivng too, they were grieving for the coutnless others... but they were impatient..they just didn'tunderstand that if they would just SUPPORT the grief for her as ONE of the countless others and  wait a little, a few days, til people were calmer, and explain to them calmly why they were bitter about ..theothers...

well anyway they required mediation...so there'd be space for the grievers to grieve and also space fro the others who rigthly felt it was too single-issuem to grumble atl east rather than shout...

andm ediation requires moderation isn such a situation. it was a very delicate situation...

 now on that  thread there were two people in particular that made this mediation actually IMPOSSIBLE to accomplish without proper moderation...

the first one is the apolgist supremo (and this is what makes blogs about labeling so prolematic, because how do you talk to or about such an individual who IS the emperess of Aplogia?) . Anyway this person, the clarion caller of the great IRI democracy, degrades and demeans any legitimate grief by engaging the griever in dialog about fairness of trial and IRI justice, who sounds reasonably intelligent at first blush, so people feel they should at least answer..and fail to see...the...level of this individual's....mental capability (to use her term),  and so they dialog until the person dismisses them by saying, as she routinely dooes, you are beneath me, i will not speak to you..

now how do you expect to be able to have unconditional love for someone who tells you you're brainless while telliing others they are propagandized idiots (direct quote, .) for not accepting an article written that day by wiki as a definitve source..

how do you expect someone like that not to make your blood boil That post of hers saying you lacked the mental capacity to udnerstand her SHOULD HAVE BEEN DELETED BEFORE YOU EVEN SAW IT because a thread like that requires more than moderation, it requires MONITORING..and many many threads in the past have been monitored, so no it is not a. utopian pipe dream..it is very easy to set up..

then there is a nother person who is highly intelligent and lefgtimately disturbed about all the hullabaloo about the girl because he REALLY cares about the rest (the Empress of Apologia doesn't, she's the kind of person who wouldn't mind if there were only three people left standing in IRI, with missing limbs, as long as she could say, Ah we are independent from Neocolonialsim..I swear it's true, whether this kind of person beieves in capital punishment or not..they do not give a damn about humans , ONLY about ideology. ONLY)..Anyway, so the other person cares but he's so..bitter..angry..even vicious with his contempt for those who grieve the girl....and he is virulently aniti-IRI to the core and the marrow of the bone..and  

but here's the thing...listen carefully..

the Empress of Apologia and the person who for all we know could very well at some point have supported foreign military intervention to overthrow IRI..are suddenly..quoting each other..and patting each other on the back...

so do you understand where people like you are on that thread..what a pressure cooker you're in... you are a mediator without a moderator

now when you are in a pressure cooker you're going to burn..and the only way not to is if there is someone to turn off the stove.

and then we get back to the points in my first post below. I flagged posts that wer still there after ten hous with f.u.s. That thread needed constant  monitoring and it wsn't even getting anythingl ike BASIC moderation..because there is ONLY ONE MODERATOR. Now..maybe he was at..court..or..in hospital..or...water skiing..that's all fine..but plenty of people would've been happy to cover that thread..or at leastc over the FLAGGINGS...

 why are you blaming yourself? it takes one person to destabilize a thread..and you had two, like bulls in china shop...completely ideologicaly opposed, who'd kill each other gladly in any civil war..cn collusion with each other just to suppress people from grieving..one of whom IMHO deserved to be heard because he has intelligence, ideas and moral conviction despite all his other problems..that one needed to be...calmed down..andd believe me five deletions in rapid scucession of his abusive posts would've done the thrick,he'd've either calmed down, or left himself, or been blocked if he didn't stop..

the other person has nothing whatsoever IMHO to contribute to any thread--but that is neiterh here nor there..just delete the abusive posts and..what can she say when she's not allowed to say you are too stupid to talk to me go away. she has nothing else to say.

why are you blaming yourself? there is one thing and one thing alone that could've prevented what happened on that thread.

LEADERSHIP. responsible, conscientious, ehtically driven leadership to maintain the integrity of that thread..leadership from the..management...

so as regards the rest, the how to get from here to there, the mission aspect of it all which as you know I share with you... how do you make this site matter, make it change hearts and minds, help people grow (you and me too of course), maybe..even..help..Iran?????

well let's imagine a scenario...

you have values you have ideals, you want to fight for the good, save damsels in distress and so on..

you are a knight. You are in King Arthurs' court. It is feudal. . Can you do this?

Yes. Your name is Lancelot.

okay, next scenario..

you have values, you have ideals,you want to fight for the good, save damsels in distress and so on..

you are a knight. You are in the time of the Renaissance. Feudalism is over.

Your name..is Don Quixote.

Leadership. Leadership. Organization. Structure. Conviction. Leadership.

Here, have a windmill..it's on me.  Believe me..I've been spun around and spun around mroe than anyone on this entire forum...  I know from windmills..

ps wanna place bets, Cap'n,on whehter or not I get deleted? Your call.

double post

del

Guilty as charged

No excuses for my behavior what so ever, I plead guilty.

sometime ago, Mr. Batmanglich wrote a thread in the same line. I thought after that, since many people came out clean and admitted to their deed that everything would go back to its normal course.

Normal course being engagement in a constructive and civilized fashion. For the longest time, I kept my own word to the heart. But my patience, as with many others were tested and tested again. At times seems that only way one can the point across is to join the crowd and just let it lose. Particularly when ones intellect and devotion  is questioned by people who haven't the slightest idea what the other person is all about.

More disturbing is the fact many people take advantage of each and every thread to promote their personal agenda, which often is just the tip of much broader agenda, which is demonizing certain group of people.

I am yet to digest why it is so easy for some to distract from the main issues of each thread. I do realize that issues are so tightly intertwined and complex, with so many branches and complexities as our old culture. But this manner in which we[I am as guilty if not more] conduct ourselves and conduct dialogues is just absolutely counter productive. 

I am yet to see that the commentator to reach one agreement in any matter. Prime example is the thread in question[Delarta Darabi]. Trust me I am the guiltiest one and don't claim to be any better than anyone.

But come on people lets use this opportunity to find ONE common ground. ONE framework, ONE point of reference, ONE ROCK that we all can agree on. One thing that we all share, that can never be questioned. One common interest that regardless of our diverse political views we would love and respect unconditionally.

Can we do this? can we find one devotion in our hearts and souls that we all share? Whether we are Monarchist, Communist, Hezbollahi, Federali,  Republican[as in Republic], Fars, Turk, Kord, Lur, old, young, man, woman...........

All we need is this one point of reference that we all share. We desperately need this one first step in order so we can unite under one goal. So at least, instead of wasting our energy in in-fighting and throwing dirt at each other, utilize our energy in achieving that one goal we set.

I suggest the common ground to be our UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND RESPECT of IRAN. Our heritage, our identity, because if we do not strive in preserving it no one will.

In closing, I do apologize for my childish behavior if I in any shape or form have disrespected anyone, intentionally or otherwise. Do find it in your heart to forgive this mean old dog.

Respectfully

-YT

I know. My basic point was

that especially in critical and highly charged emotionally volatile crisis situations, policing and regulation are necessary, otherwise it's hopeless. Like I said at a time like this you post this, fifty will get it but if the crisis situaitno went on for a few more days, twenty of em'd wind up falling into it anyway. What is particularly relevant about the Delara thread is that there really was one person involvled in almost all ugly squabbles. It is very common for one person to destabilize an entire thread. However if the person is deleted, eidted, warned,, etc. that will work because either they will tone down or leave on ther own, or they wil be blocked from thread having been duly warned, which is fair.

So part of what I ma trying to say to youo is that when things get as bad as they've been since the haning, it is more "efficient" to do the policing. Not that you shouldn't write blogs like this, like I said, just that when there are riots going on, the police have to come in.

And as I explained below, flagged posts on the Delara thread (flagged by me) sat there hours and hours, some never deleted..

which brings up a concrete question. You say you were flagging too. I am very curious to know, which days did you flag and were the flags deleted promptly or did it take forever? Thx.

Meanwhile,

back at the ranch, the beatings continue, arriving new lows!

Thank you all for your supportive comments.

Rosie, though moderation and flagging are both worthwhile subjects which should be pursued by JJ and others, they are both policing and patroling tools for bringing about peace in our community.  My point was more about personal responsibility.  Judging from how the worst of the culprits are back at it again this morning, I don't think any would be coming from that bunch.  One bull is enough to destroy a china shop.  We might be looking at a whole herd of them, I'm afraid.

Yeah, I'll continue to flag bad comments and I will remember these users the next time I see them around, faking some pretentious intellectual or political stance about this or that.  Jaahels and kolaah makhmalees, more like it!  There are your Farsi words of the day!

Rosie

Apology acceptedand you're welcome!

IRANdokht

Irandokht, I had no inention of posting here again,

especially so soon, but I just had to tell you that that is a terrible situation. To have to stop flagging because attacked you for flagging. How could they know you were flagging? Still, I feel that its teribly unfair, to have to stop flagging just because you flagged.

I also understand your concern about "guidance". I myself have found myself chronically guided by one individual on almost everything I write since last summer,Many other people find this person's chronic guidance very upsetting.

But I did want to thank you though for your very long post toward the end of the Delara thread analyzing at great length the whole thread ,giving such detailed guidance onhow to debate how to debate. It was really thoughtful of you stay on top of  thethread so carefully for so long without poostng just to able to make such a meticulous analysis toward the end. What a pity you weren't able to flag any posts on that thread just because of  having been so browbeaten for flagging in the past. The trhead certainly could've used more flagging.

I did not intend to post any more than my first two posts here, but then I answered Niloufar. And now because of the trenchancy of your post here, I just had to step up to the plate and support you. I feel for you. I really do.

OSS you're mistaken. It is

OSS you're mistaken. It is what it is. Iranians get shot and killed for talking and having an opinion. So we're a mirror of that and it does not matter than we live in the western democracies.

We're talking about Iranian issues which do not have any freedom of expressions. This website is a reflection too with no rules! Iranians don't go by rules! From the beginning of the revolution we said we made the revolution to be "free" and we are "free".

Whoever participates in these threads with these kind of "passions" like to be heard so they are screaming. You are screaming with your own blog so why are you blaming others?

That was quite horrifying O.S.S.

Thanks for the blog, hopefully now that they've calmed down, they can take a look at your list and learn how petty they sounded to the rest.

As for the "new idea/discovery" being promoted left and right these days... I used to flag the comments that I found offensive. Boy did I pay for that!   I recall a bunch of blogs and hateful comments that were directed to me just for having flagged the insults that were subsequently deleted. I guess it's not considered criminal offense anymore... I am glad we have the much needed guidance to know how to debate, how to behave and what to say or do, albeit inconsistent and flaky! 

IRANdokht

Right, Niloufar,

you and I ar both VERY liberal about what can be considered civil discourse. If we were flagging there was a VERY good reason. And yet flags were either completely ignored or took hours upon hous to be deletedn and ones of posts by the worst "offender" still allowed to remain. And the nasty responses to you after your flags were allowed to remain, too. So you had to leave. What a pity. Then it just got worse and worse.

Rosie

I was just agreeing with OSS. actually, i believe in free speech, and colouful language does not bother me too much, but personal attacks can hurt. I tried flagging a couple of times when faced with direct insults, but was ignored by the moderator. then i decided to just let it be and ignore those who want to swear and cuss. they are venting their private frustrations with their own lives here. spreading hate.

but a blog about a human being's death should not include such insults. it is disrespectful to the extreme. hope that clarifies.

Peace

Farah Rusta /Nilofar /ps Jahanshah

This blogger is responsible. This blogger is a general reader (not regular blogger or even poster) who periodically blogs to give valuable feedback on what she observes. Everyone else should be so responsible. How many people flag? In my view, the only mistake she makes here is putting all the "blame" on the posters, not the management too,

Farah, you attacked David as a fraud for announcing he had to leave his voting thread because Delara's execution date was had just been set (two weeks ago), and with you it was Delara this, Delara that.David how dare you, then she is dead and her thread from day of hanging turns out like this, with worst abuser trashing the attention she gets, and you are making fun of this blog? Or am I misunderstanding you? It seems hallucinatory. Am I hallucinating?

As for Niloufar, I don't get it. are you making fun of the blog too/

 PS Jahanshah, the last post I wrote on that thread told Parham AGAIN to move the discussion with me to another thread and said nothing else. It was deleted. Several posts were posted after it before the thread was closed. I would've liked that post to remain as a record to the others who were concerned, that I did that and I don't understand why it was deleted.

Orchestra, thanks for the blog. You are right but..(rewritten)

You are RIGHT. Don't listen to the people who insult you. They are defending the insulters. I wrote a blog about that thread Saturday night. I said, non-Iranians come here to read about these important issues, our KIDS read these things. My god, what an example to set when someone  isn't even cold in their grave..yes it is shameful. But I also urged flagging and much quiceer resonse to flags and more focused moderation on critical threads.

BSo  you are wrong about one thing. You can't stop a bull in a china shop, bulls are out of control. over and over people write blogs like you do and it reminds people to have self-control. But only up to a point. Somone will always 'go off", and even if only one at first, then thereis a snowball effect. Gaza was just as bad many times. The only method that has been proven truly effective is careful and organized moderation, which should include shared responsibility for flagging by all the reg users. This is not just an i.c. or Iranian phenomenon, it is a universal C-space one. C-space allows people to actin stragne ways, and many will if they can.

My flags took hours and hours to delete, some never, And I am VERY liberal about what constitutes civil discourse, so if I'm flagging a lot, you KNow something is wrong.

This thread needed more than flagging and prompt deleting. It was one of the most critical threads ever posted here. For various reasons. It needed continued and constant MONITORING. Such monitoring has happened with threads in the past, if any threead needed it it was this one.

There was one "offender" in particular. he wrote half the quotes you cite. Did you see one warning to him? Or to others?  Why not? Now the thread is closed. quite frankly I thought of requesting that thred be closed by Saturday p.m.

several weeks ago Jahanshah announced he'd taken over all the moderation himself. This is a Herculean task. This site is huge. No human being can do it effectively.

We also know Jahanshah is traveling and we all underrstand that whether or not he is there will be times he just can't watch over the site, for hours. We also all know how he saccrifices 24/7 for the site. But there are days when it can only be,,,,,12/7 or...15/7 or even..3/7. Things come up.. What about all the other hours in the day?

During these times there are plenty of the former moderators who would be happy to take over. Obviously they weren't asked. IMHO that's not the best plan either. The best plan is to go back to the old system with a lot of well-oranized moderators and a hierarchy.

No one person can be responsible e for all the moderation. None. It will end in disasters like this one, and yes, you are right, this disaster  was SHAMEFUL. 

having said that, and I stressed it in the blog, moderation without FLAGGING can be meningless. Itis the responsibility of every reg user to flag offfensive posts promptly.

Blog all you want, Orchestra, it's good. fifty people will get it and ten won't, they like being bulls in china OF the other fifty, twenty of them will also go berserk at some point. Could be me, , anyone. and look, you can't get a bull in a china shop to be a lamb. Bull is bull. Flagging and prompt deletion, and when necessary, monitoring of critical threads like this one, with concomitant warnings by an organized moderation TEAM  is the only really effective solution.

Not just here. Anywhere in C-space on a site as large as thisone.

Office of Strategic Services

Interesting choice! The most well known OSS (second to yours) was the Office of Strategic Services which was a precursor to the, CIA :0)

FR

O.S.S.

well done. this blog really speaks for itself.

:)))

Iranians at their best ;)

It was nauseating to see the

It was nauseating to see the verbal assaults. Like you said, these are educated folks and lot of them are mature. It was embarassing to see it.