ISLAM DOES NOT OWN IRAN

In case you didn't know,

In case you didn't know, IRANdokht (*) is among very few wise people that unlike this magase hagheer and majority of nation supported Bakhtiar.

Kharmagas I never taught I would ever agree with you on anything but you're right. To this date, Irandokht's blog about Bakhtiar is one of the best ever on Iranian.com

Ramin jan: don't forget the

Ramin jan: don't forget the Jame' Mosque fire in Kerman [in south central Iran] set by the clergies to frame the Shah.

KM jan

Some people make the wrong decisions, choose the wrong paths and when it's time to own up to their mistakes, they steal other people's losses and sacrifices and become holier than the Pope. They lecture us all about the history, question others patriotism and point accusatory finger at all. Now they're hijacking people's movement and trying to sway it their way, sabotaging the whole process. Once they ruin the momentum by trying to stamp it their own, they will ridicule the people and beg their bosses to bomb Iran and get it over with.

Very few show integrity and admit that they were wrong or try to reconsider their ways. This new self-righteous character seems to be in too much a hurry to establish himself as a patriot! It's BS and the stench is overwhelming....   I have nothing more to add.

IRANdokht

The conditions were right.

It is puzzling why would some people argue the influence of Carter administration or British government in promoting Khomeini or simply getting Shah out?. This is an undeniable fact. To claim that the Islamist republic had the overwhelming support of the people (even 30 years ago) is preposterous.  What people simply voted for was their opposition to the corruptions that had penetrated the Pahlavi’s rule in its later years.

Ramin’s blog is simply a snapshot of evidences in support of the fact that Carter had a lot t do with the disaster that Iranians as well as the rest of the civilized world is facing today by giving a free reign to extremism and fundamentalism.

The only benefit from such debates should come in the form of “lessons learned”. I base my lessons on the premise that the condition of dissatisfaction with the ruling regime in Iran is much stronger (or at least the same as) than what masses were feeling in 1978-79. Therefore the conditions are prime for change of regime. But, to accomplish that with minimal bloodshed I rely on past observations:

Lesson 1: Use any support, foreign or domestic to propagate your message of democracy and secularism. Use every means of broadcasting the technology offers to condemn theocracy and  fundamentalism, and show the true face of IRR to as many Iranian in every corner as possible.

Lesson2: Pressure the ruling government in the PR and finance department. Hold their feet to the fire in observance of Human rights and every other right supported by the United Nations. If this requires sanctions, so be it. The point to remember is to harvest the results of lesson 1. People need to lose (at least to some extent) their fear of IRR’s brutality.

Lesson 3: Make certain that there is enough unity in the leadership of the democratic movement that there will be no room to waist or steal the efforts and blood of those who fought for their ideals.

My greatest fear is that after all the struggle we end up with and settle for an IRR with a prettier (Green) mask on her face.      

yavAsh Ramin!

In case you didn't know, IRANdokht (*) is among very few wise people that unlike this magase hagheer and majority of nation supported Bakhtiar.

.... we can argue forever about the rule Jewish lobby played, Iranians played, the British played..... all that aside, one undeniable fact is that Shah's supporters were not ready to handle any serious opposition, they were not ready to stand for their Shah, ....

(*) as she stated it sometime ago

The question was WHY did

The question was WHY did the Jewish Lobby want the Shah to go?

The problem of this line of questioning, as in another blog Princess pointed out, is that it takes the focus off what WE THE PEOPLE did and take the responsibility for what WE did. Even if we were all manipulated, other than by Khomeini, by whole bunch of other foreign interests, we didn't come out in the streets because Israel wanted the Shah out, or England or U.S or any other foreign country. This was not what in OUR mind motivated us. If we don't focus on what WE did, the way it was UNDERSTOOD by us, and assume the responsibility for the outcome, we will NEVER take responsibility to correct it. This is not to say you are right or wrong Ramin, you obviously researched extensively on the matter. It is to say, that was not what was happening in OUR MIND when we fought against the Shah.

One of the reasons you may not be able to see my point, is that you were not one of those who actually opposed the old regime. In that angle, your focus is understandable. But as you know, 90 percent of people did participate in the fight against the Shah, and what was going in their mind, was not wrong because they were following this or that foreign interest, it was wrong, as it was understood, manipulated or not, in THEIR mind.

THIS is what we should focus on, in order to be able to rectify it. Otherwise we leave the room open again, to be manipulated by foreign interests again. 

Irandokt

The only part I was referring to as a joke was linking you with Ms. Parsi -- the other part was no joke: N. Parsi and you are indeed leftist tools who are slaves to your ideology, at the expense of the Iranian nation. For that, you and Parsi are despicable.

Bot Shekan, aka, Ostaad: please put down the sauce, you sound like one of those characters in "One Flew Over the Cukoos Nest."

So, according to you, the revolution was not "manufactured" when the mullahs set Cinema Rex on fire and blamed it on the Shah to fan the flames of dissent? And when the mullahs hired Palestinians to shoot at the army from above Meydoon Jaleh on Black Friday, forcing the army to return fire, that was a natural occurence as well.

The great Shapour Bakhtiar would have had a fighting chance AND MUCH MORE, if the Americans had not sent $150 million dollars to Khomeini (via the CIA) while the mad mullah was stationed in Paris, had the Americans not sabotaged his premiership by sending General Huyser to neutralize the army, and if the BBC had not become a Bolangoo for Ayatollah BBC's causes, and if the clowns in the Carter administration (James Bill, Ambassador Sullivan, Young and others) had not painted Khomeini as an honest, Gandhi-like saint. 

You can keep calling the "Islamic" revolution a people-inspired movement all day long, it will not change the fact that the movement itself was hijacked at the 11th hour by Khomeini, with tremendous help from the MI6 and the CIA.

گاندی ملت ایران

گاندی ملت ایران اگر این بی‌ پدر است،

بر سر امّت و قبر گاندی‌اش باید رید!

Was Khomeini Iran's Gandhi?

only if Gandhi had Jeffery Dahmer, Stalin and Hitler's DNA transplanted into him simultaneously.  

Niloufar jan,  You're

Niloufar jan, 

You're right, Americans are very friendly people. Are you
planning to come over to the west coast at all? It'd be great to meet
you in person! :o)

Have a great visit and a safe trip back home.

Ramin

You said: "As far as Niloufar Parsi/Irandokt, that was a joke, pal."

First of all when you make a joke, it's supposed to be funny. Your tone in that comment was not funny, even you didn't crack a smile yourself, nevermind the people you called "despicable lady" and "a shameless enemy of the people of Iran, in every way"... That's not a joke, it's a bunch of lies and insults!

You asked why Israel wanted Shah to go? Could it be because Shah was trying to become more powerful than Israel in the region? I suggest you read some books. 

IRANdokht

Nusha wake up and smell the coffee, pal!!

Americans would have supported anyone who was supported by the PEOPLE. Bakhtiar was just a Mr Nobody who had no support of the nation. So what are you guys babbling about? Why are you guys so afraid of admitting that the revolution was a genuine popular uprising against the Shah and whoever was associated, appointed or endorsed by him. Why you people never understand the role of the people except only when it suits you. The same people who put the Shah back on his throne on 28 Mordad, pulled him off his throne on 22 Bahman. You guys must stop takig the conspiracy pill three times a day. It gives you VD: verbal diarrhoea

Khomeini according to Carter officials

I am amazed by the total naivete and frankly stupidity of Carter and his advisers. The fact that these people once ran the USA is frightening . The world was lucky to survive it. The most unbelievable part is that they show no remorse. They still hold to their ideas even when proven totally wrong. 

Unfortunately we have people like them right now in congress. They are calling for "negotiation"with the Taliban. One group even more unreasonable than Khomeini.

I hope Obama is not listening to these idiots. Having Brezinsky around does not instill confidence; surge in Afghanistan on the other hand shows Obama is not totally naive.

VPK

Re: "Ostaad,"

"The question was WHY did the Jewish Lobby want the Shah to go?"

I know this question was not addressed to me. But I am going to make a guess. First of all I am not sure they did want the Shah to go. 

Assuming they did, the only reason I would have for Jewish lobby want Shah to go is to get Iranian jews to move to Israel. It did not really work since most Iranians jewish or not moved to Europe or North America.

"Ostaad,"

The question was WHY did the Jewish Lobby want the Shah to go?

Bot Shekan

writes, "By the way, why were you banned/blocked as Nusha?"

Who are you? Are you freaking kidding me? 

As far as Niloufar Parsi/Irandokt, that was a joke, pal. Jesus, get your head out of your koulo.

And is it "nonsense" to bring up the fact that long before the success of the revolution, the Carter administration was calling Khomeini a "saint," "Ghandi-like," with "impeccable honesty and integrity."

Is this not relevant, as to the identity of the group which financed and supported the hijackers of the revolution, when it could have very easily been assumed by the sane leadership of Shapour Bakhtiar? 

Jimmy Carter and co. could've easily supported a transition to Bakhtiar's democratic government, instead they fullly backed the reactionary mullahs, sabotaging Bakhtiar's chances (simply consider Huyser's sinister mission to neutralize the army). They didn't just "abandon" the Shah (that would've given us Bakhtiar), rather, they threw in their powerful support in favor of Khomeini's God party.

If this is nonsense, then so are your ridiculous accusations.

Of course the Jewish lobby wanted to see the Shah go

Even he (Shah) admitted it:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQgZ3oLp_WY

Ms. Parsi,

Don't hate me because I'm reminding you of what you already know deep in your heart, but thanks for giving me an opportunity to present my point of view.

Sadly, with those who are slaves to ideology, it's difficult to engage them in an objective analysis. I gave Kharmagas a chance to convince me that the Jewish Lobby wanted the Shah out of Iran and he sort of fizzled at the end.

Ms. Parsi, Iran's welfare and standing in the world is more important than communism, Islam, monarchy, and the rest. I hope someday you appreciate that fact. 

It is pretty hard to explain

If we accept the idea that the Americans always wanted a extremist government, how do you explain the take over of the American Embassy by the students and the initial disagreement of Khomeini and his subsequent aquiesence.  It was mostly over that event that the falling out with the nationalists started which lead to radicalization.  At the time of hostage taking Khomeini was in Quom and not Tehran.

However, it is probably true, that radicalization was an unavoidable eventuality.  But the sequesnse of events was what it was.

(follow up post) 

Kharmagas jan: Khob khoda

Kharmagas jan: Khob khoda ro shokr ke ma ham jozve adama shodim. Salavat and beer...

BTW,

IRNA strikes 'Ayatollah' from Rafsanjani title

Tabnak | Dec. 13, 2009

In a directive issued to IRNA employees, writers have been advised to use only the titles "Hojjatoleslam" or "Head of the Expediency Council" when referring to former president Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani.
//www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/2009/12/selected-headlines-86.html

Come on Nusha (Ramin), be a good sport.

If attacking identities is bad, then why did you attack Niloufar's ID? By the way, why were you banned/blocked as Nusha?  Listen pal! what's the point of calling other people's bluff? we are all shadows, excpet for Q, and Kadivar who are quasi-shadows? For example look at this Phantom of Opera. He used to appear as Faghan (Scream). He even uses the same signature.

As for having somethig of substance to say, well the whole blog is nonsense. So nonsense begets nonsense :0)

time for a beer! (to Inspector Vildee)

Vidiee joon, for once you asked me something in a nice and polite way!

I'll answer your question sometime, but for now I am going to go for a cold one celebrating the fact that Vildee ham Adam shod!

Kharmagas: to you is

delete

Kharmagas: to you is

Kharmagas: to you is Inspector Vidliee.

What part did you play in bringing khomeini to power??by kharmagas on Sun Dec 13, 2009 07:38 PM EST

Although I consider myself much more guilty than an average Iranian in bringing in Khomeini ....,  I

it is ok Ramin!

Don't take my comment regarding that imbecile seriously, I was just taking a cheap shot at queen vilde-i joon!

Regarding your question, at a high level you and I know why (domination of the region), ..., but Mammad had a very good and fairly long comment about this in iranian.com ...., I'll provide it to you sometime but I don't remember enough key words about it that I can find it now.

ramin

you are a waste of time. ID was right about your IQ. sad really, to see an ignorant simplton like you trying to sound like he knows what he is talking about. a little less hot air and more study might do you some good, but frankly, i think there is no hope for you.

over n out with you hateful fool.

Ramin Jan: Vildemose is a

Ramin Jan: Vildemose is a she...lol

Please continue writing and taking  the usual miscreants to task on their pathetic attempt to silence those they disagree with. Kudos to your energy and testostrone....hahaha 

Kharmagas, I'm not sure

what you mean when you say I let Vildemose influence me? I'm letting you influence me, so long as you don't substitute fiction for the truth, as a slave to your ideology.

Vildemose has his opinions... unlike some of the unsavory characters on this site, he seems genuine.

Kharmagas

I have heard that before about the Jewish Lobby, but tell me, why do you think the Jews would want a good friend of Israel out of power in Iran?

I do know that Bernard Lewis, the British Jew, is celebrated in Israel as something of a boy wonder, and the "green belt" theory was his creation in many respects.

And I did see that Mike Wallace interview with the Shah, where he chastises and lectures the Jewish Lobby in the US, but what motivation would the Jews have to help remove the Shah and usher in an era of Islamic extremism in the middle east?

Ramin

Although I consider myself much more guilty than an average Iranian in bringing in Khomeini ....,  I believe U.S (in particular the Jewish lobby) as well as the British wanted Shah out...... also I agree with Zahedi's view on corrupt Iranian supporters of Shah, some of whom are now very active mozdours of AIPAC and sanction/war pushers:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JPMLz4-x2M&feature...

Niloufar Parsi

I was right to call you patently despicable! Here is another example of your despicable treachery regarding mullah Khomeini: "personally, i think he was an idiot. like the shah. only, the shah was a bigger idiot. without him there would be no khomeini."

Vildemose pegged you right on the money! You are a Tudeh leftover from a bygone, worthless, treasonous, screwed up era. The sooner people of your generation kick the perverbial bucket, the better for Iran.

The Shah was a nationalist patriot who made many misakes in a good faith attempt to modernize Iran. Khomeini was the devil himself, sending 10-year-old boys to the front lines of that bullshit war he continued needlessly for 8 years so as to liquidate his enemies at home and solidify his power, in the process slaughtering nearly a million Iranians.

You are despicable, madam, and I suspect in your heart of hearts you know this to be true.