religion out of government

Be grateful for what you have right now,

Unless you are living in an undemocratic country like "the empire" which can't give up the perverse habit of marketing itself as the USA, where the individual with more Money in their campaign Always wins, then you have many realities to be grateful for. 

I am living in a secular democracy, it's called the United Kingdom, and living in this monarchy is a blessing.  Health care is free, you don't pay taxes for your home when you don't have work and you will never face poverty at old age due to the benefits system.

Would I love Irans system of government to be a Secular Democracy, as a monarchist of course.  The late shah worked his entire life towards that goal based on an understanding of exactly how most of the other Successful Powers "monarchies" had evolved into being secular democracies. 

Now can I do anything about the many Iranians that were/are victims of the USA/UK/French secret services aim to dominate Iranian politics in order to thwart Iranians development which the late shahs team was working towards???? No. 

Their views are dominated by a very small number of people,

who's aims clearly do not serve Iranian Freedom and Independence today based on results,

just as it didn't in 1953 when they supported a dictator who unlawfully used absolute power to close the parliament... in the name of the democracy

or 1979 when another dictator only wanted the good of iranians. 

Will the people learn?  Of course they will, thats why irans nationa culture and monarchists exist in larger numbers today than they did pre-1979. 

Is secular democracy going to happen for Iranians through revolution?  Of course not, just look at the USA and France, in comparison to a Japan or UK, the former had revolutions and have been sewers for the majority of their people based on the pathetic levels of justice for their people, the later were wise, enjoyed better justice systems and are more democratic today (and that they are monarchies is not a concidence).  

Enjoy what you have now, focus on the full part of the glass, of course we would like a secular democracy for Iran, but we don't have it today and 33 years ago it was Iranians ultimately who blew their own chance to achieve a secular democracy gradually with their monarchy.

This was evident by their personal attacks against one of the most democratic acting/behaving leaders in the world at the time, the late shah.  During who's lifetime Iranians went from getting around by donkey in tehran to having the 9th largest gdp in the world.  And if Iranians were/are so incapable to distinguish between an Angel "the late shah" and a Purely Ignorant "Khomeini" in large part due to the domination of view points by the secret services of foreign countries within Iran, then isn't that a quality Iranians need to learn first before the dream how to implement legitimate ideals that require the ability to distinguish?  Based on iranians immaturity it makes perfect sense to anyone caring for Irans feedom and Independence, not the USA/UK/France, why the late shah backed the idea of rastakhiz as a single party to protect Iranians independence while so many of his fellow countryment and women were so deficient as a result of the consequence of islam in our country.

I am still waiting to see "that" picture

Otherwise an apology is in order P_J. As for my "pin name!!" you are
arguing the same way as Mohammad Amini. If "pin names" are to be the guiding light to
the people they follow, then how would you justify two of
Mosaddegh's staunchest followers on this site: Khar and Divaneh!!

religionoutofgovernment, you are quite right!

I also had read that Kashani was the defacto leader of the Fadaian-e Islam, as was Khomeini, and responsible for the assassination of Razm Ara.  If true, that would clearly indicate the collaboration of Kashani and Shah.

And for reason(s) unbeknown to me, Americans were very much interested in Razm Ara, and would probably have preferred him to the Traitor Shah.

EXPEDIANCY of Kashani is unquestionable!  Also, murder of Afshartous, Mossadegh’s capable chief of the police, by the Baghaii gang, was another blow to Mossadegh and his followers of democratic change.

I have had the opportunity to chat with some of those who lived in that era; they believe that Afshartous was one person that could have stopped the 53 Coup from happening and his demise was the green light that the AJAX Operators needed and were waiting for!

 Enjoyed reading your article and analysis! Have a GREAT day!  

Kashani

The story of Kashani is much more detailed and cannot simply be described as "Mosaddegh's Ally" or "Nokare Inglis". In my mind the best words that describe him are "opportunistic" ie forsat talab and "ignorant" ie Jahel. He was brought back to Tehran from Iraq by The Shah simply to fight Razm Ara. Shah had a mortal fear of Razm Ara because he indeed had plans to take over the throne. Kashani actually had a long history of fighting the British in Iraq, hence his disdain for Razm Ara. Kashani initially joined the Oil Nationalization forces although always had personal ambitions and Ismalic goals in mind. The documents from the archives reveal that in 1951 before 30Tir he was already conspiring against Mosaddegh. In the end, Kashani sided with the Shah to bring back the tyranical rule of a monarch which was illegal based on the 1906 constitution.  

Anglophile, your pin name says it all!

Don't believe someone as FOUL as you, even deserves a response!

Good Luck living in FANTACY world!

Facts according to Mossadeghollahis

Here is a sample of what the Mossadeghollahi crowd (in this instance P_J) call "facts"!.

"there are pictures of M. R. Pahlavi, the TRAITOR, kissing
Kashani’s hand, yet, they have been trying hard making him into a
Mossadegh supporter…."

Apart from the foul language which speaks volumes about the "quality" of this commenters accusations, now the foul is giving way to fictitious!

Can the Mossadeghollahis produce evidence of this picture - and I mean the picture of the Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi kissing Kashani's hand and NOT the picture of Kashani's grandson (through Kashani's daughter) Dr Mohammad Hassan Salemi who had a striking similarity to a young Mohammad Reza Pahlavi.

//www.ghanoononline.ir/News/Item/23919/22/28-...

But there is no denying for these pictures of Mosaddegh-os-Saltaneh sucking up to Ayatollah Kashani:

//shazdehmosadegh.blogspot.co.uk/

I was very young during the

I was very young during the Mossaddegh era, but I know my family and majority of Iranians had a great deal of respect for him for the nationalization of oil. Unfortunately, Religious authorities like Kashani, and also Tudeh party did not support him.

After the revolution, they renamed Pahlavi Ave. to Mossaddegh Ave for a short while, but pretty soon renamed it again to Vali-asre Ave. I believe Bakhtiar was more inline with mossaddegh, and both of them wanted a secular democracy for Iran.

If Bazargan and other nationalist group cooperated with Bakhtiar  for a secular democracy, the army and majority of people would support them, and Khomeini could not do much. Later, they could arrange a referandom for secular constitutional monarchy or secular democratic republic, and they would have prevented the tyranny of current regime.

Articulate writing, religionoutofgovernment!

Your essay was concise, sensible and rational, backed by historical facts.

You and I will never be able to convince any member of the Shahollahi/Hezbollah crowd into accepting the historical facts.

Simply, because they had everything that Akhoonds are having today.   They stole, lied, pillaged, murdered and took all that did not belong to them…they acted and were Akhoonds of yesteryears.

History, plus Kermit Roosevelt, the architect of the 53 Coup, clearly identify Kashani as one of those RATS that the CIA depended on and was responsible for stabbing Mossadegh in the back…there are pictures of M. R. Pahlavi, the TRAITOR, kissing Kashani’s hand, yet, they have been trying hard making him into a Mossadegh supporter….question becomes; who coordinated and led these reactionary zealots, i.e. Shaaban Bi Mokh et all, against Mossadegh?

The Shahollahis/Hezbollah crowd in order to discredit democratic aspirations; have been trying FOOLISHLY hard in order to rewrite and to emasculate the history of Iran’s recent past.

Anglophile

In a democratic Iran that I envision, who will have every right to express your opinions, form a political party and fight for the public opinion to support your monarchy. However, I don't think you will ever convince me on that. Take care

I submit to Masoud's call to unity of democratic forces

I wrote this blog as a comment in Fred's blog, just to present some facts. Please read Masoud's call to unity of democratic forces. For the record, I totally support his call. My intention is only to clear some historical facts, and not to create divisions. I support any movement who believes in a secular democratic Iran.

You are simply speculating

I don't understand why you even mention Bazargan,

Bazargan was not even remotely a key player in 1951-1953. Much less so was Bakhtiar. Both of them were like the foot soldeirs.

MOSSADEGH-os-Saltaneh was an ally of Ayatollah Kashani.

It was Sanjabi and Kazemi who were more of a fundamentalists than Bazarganever could be and Sanjabi was even more of a hardliner in 1979 than he was back in 1953. Are we talking about the same people or a new bunch created in our imagination,

By the way ROG I am always indebted to you - just for the record :)