Roozbeh_Gilani

The USA is no working with the Russians

To remove all obstacles for IRI and sanctions.

This is a favor to USA, because they want Akhoonds and have pushed them as much as they can and got nowhere.

When they get serious about regime change and basiji's let me know, until then you need a different plan than the west.  Their darling is IRI and Islam in govt for Iran, one group or another.

Amir

Of course Israel does not care about human rights in Iran and this is precisely why the nuclear issue is used as a pre text in going to war. When did I ever said it did? Yes, Israel has done it share of covertly supporting the mullahs (some of it was actually to Iran's benefit) but it has come to the point where the the mullahs have outgrown their usefulness and have become an existential threat. However, all I am saying is that we must support voices whi want to go beyond the nuckear issue and advocate regime change itself. With the bombing of nuclear facilities becoming increasingly unlikely there are voices both in Israel and the USA to target the rwvolutionary gaurds and the basij themselves. I know this is not being done in Iran's interest but it is nevertheless being benefited by the removal.of the regime. Do.you think the USA went into WW2 for the love of France or Britain? No because it was pushed into it following Pearl Harbour. Do you think the Libyan rebels really believe the West wanted to bomb Gaddafi for thr love of humanity? Of.course not but they are not going to turn down the offer.of helo and neither should we.

Israel doesn't give a damn about Iran, they help mullahs the mos

t.  Israel armed the mullahs.

Their whole purpose of existence is to screw palestinians for the real agenda of serving the usa plans of creating a clash of civilizations, so usa will never okay a palestinaian state so it can continue to radicalize muslims.  Israel helps create IRI's and sustain them.

The point about Israel is, they can't even meet their own national interests if it means endangering IRI.

Regime change by USA/Israel will only be considered when they have a group like the MeK to back.  Which is why they saved them and never brought any of them to justice even after killing so many Americans.

America/Israel love IRI for Iran.  Get that concept into your head.  I know it's difficult to accept, but the truth is always tough to swallow, especially when you see your country suffering as it is every day, for absolutely no gain at all.

The nuclear non-issue

Israel in particular must stop the obsession with Iran's nuclear enrichment and just concentrate on regime change. Intelligence officer Meir Daggan was absolutely correct that an attack on the nuclear facilites would be morally unconsciable and lead to death of millions. It also has the counter-productive effect of unifying Iranians against outside intervention as all Iranians, with a degree of justification, believe that it is their inalienable right to have nuclear power.

Even without nukes the IR is still capable of unleashing terror as it has been doing so in the last thirty years killing dissidents abroad and fighting Israel through its proxies. It does not need weapons of mass destruciton to carry out its terror rampage.

Concentrating on the nuclear issue will not stop 8 Iraians dying every hour. It will not stop the clampdown and arrest of protesters, journalists and bloggers. It will not stop the extra-judicial killings. It will not stop innocent Iranians going missing, raped and their bodies ditched in a mass grave. It will not stop our heritage, landscape and wealth from being destroyed.

I absolutely hate the obsession with the nuclear issue. Ask for regime change. If America can't do it then Israel must be convinced.  

Simorgh5555

The Highest bidder is wall street, the oil companies, you can't out bid them.  That's idealism.  It's delusional.  Israel can't even go up against them and touch Iran.

Here's reality

//iranian.com/main/blog/amirparvizforsecu...

You are right that the regime will not go quietly, but you need other help as USA won't be with you. Things are really changing in Iran, the mullahs are losing support big time and they are all divided right now.  There days will come to an end, but it must be at the right time, democrats won't budge on keeping the IRI. Republicans are only a very little better.

Amir Parviz

But I do see the 'facts, policies, interests and motives'.  The question is, do you? 

American politicians are up for grabs for the highest bidder. Don't you see? The MEK, an Islamic  communist and at one time anti-American party has 'all American' politicians such as Guliani, Kennedy and Bolton to their bidding. 

Use the system like every lobby is using the system to further their interest. Why are troops in Iraq? For the interest of the USA? They were quite happy holding Iraq at ransom under the oil-for-food deal with Saddam under power. Who led the war? Haliburon, oil companies, the military industrial complex and the Jewish lobby and a stupid President bearing a grudge for daddy. Use the system the same way. Do you see how the Jewish American community have successfully manipulated the political system to equate every attack on Israel is an attack on America? We must do the same. 

No countries are friends. All international allegiances are built on greed, land, money and territorial acquisition. Your accusation of fithiest gang applies to every single state on the planet. However, the Russians and Soviet Union were infinitely worse that America and have harmed our interests and grabbed our land and are still screwing us over to this day. Where is your condemnation?  

You cannot cannot CANNOT win the war on the ground without outside intervention. If you are happy with the satus quo, sit down quietly and forger about Iran. Do yourself and Iranians a favour and pretend it never existed. There is no other way. There is only one option on the menue and it is a bitter herb to swallow.   

Stop being an idealist. Kaveh the Blacksmith does not exist. Rostam is just a myth. You are waiting for someone with the divine farr to come and overthrow the ISlamic Republic in another romantic revolution. It just won't happen. They will beat execute you or send you to prison where prisonwardens are given condoms to rape people. Wake up and face reality. Use the resources and your privileged position in your favour to further Iran's interest.  

Simorgh5555

America represents the filthiest gang of thugs, making the IRI look like sissys.  They will never help Iran remove the regime, never, the extent of their aims is to divide Iran into pieces.

Where have you been the last 33 years anyways?  Were you not aware the USA with the UK/France and Germany brought the IRI to power and have kept them in power with every element of power at their disposal.

Reading your post, I don't think you see the facts, the policies, the interests & motives.

Yes IRI will go and no time soon due to the west and USA, they'll milk it's existence until the system collapses.  If they ever bomb Iran, it will be for another agenda, breaking up iran, not to remove IRI, but to bring another group of mullahs to power.  We have many sadly.

Amir

I have condemned IRI for their actions like taking American Embassy Hostages. I said it was illegal and criminal. I condemned the IRI more than you could count when counts. But unlike some people here I do not give blind support to anyone.

The hikers are not hostages. They violated international borders knowing well what is in store for them. They violated directives from US State Department itself. Now they whine about being caught. Why should US be tied up in their predicament.

It reminds me of ***holes who go surfing when a tidal wave hits. Then expect the Coast Guard to rescue them. I have two words for the hikers: tough ***.  The other bombings and related issues need proof. I condemn all acts of violence. And you know something: I have no use for right wing Iranians who sit out here and rant. So thanks a lot for your opinion. I am done with this thread and as far as unity goes; keep on dreaming. 

VPK

The hikers get mentioned both from a humanitarian level and from the strategic political view. US assistance is vital for the removal of the regime. The media and public sympathy for the hikers must be provoked in order for the world to act. The merciless and devestating crackdown of demonstrators have proven to me that without proper military intervention the IR will not budge. The MEK tried with a campain of violence and assassination and failed. The Reformist/Green movement have failed and turned into a laughing stock. Its leaders have been arrested and their location is unkown. 

I could not care less if I am reviled for my opinion. I say what every Iranian believes deep down even though he would not dare to mention it. The West must be pushed into removing this cancerous turmour precisely because THEY created the problem by brining the mullahs in power in the first place. The Iranian people must be galvanized into a mass protest and/or a liberation army on the ground. However, just like Libya without aircover any resistance on the ground will die and wither away. 

The counter argument is that even targeted strikes would lean to civilian deaths. This is mathematically probable but then again if the status quo remains 8 Iranians are executed every hour which equals 6988 deaths in one year. And that is the unofficial figure! Multiply that by another 30 years and you will have 2096640 deaths. 

Do nothing and Persepolis will crumble. Cyrus's tomb in Pasargad will submerge in water. Naqse Rostam will be infested with leaches. The tress of Kurdistan and forests of Iran will be cut down to make condominiums and villas. The Alborz mountains in Tehran has all but disappeared under high rise buildings. Every facet of pre-Islamic history is being cast down and forgotten like the satues of Arash and substituted by an evil Shia Islamo fascist ideology. Lake Urumiyeh is dying because of the regime. The Caspian has been sold off to the Russians. The weatlh of the country is being distributed to Gaza, South Lebanon, Iraq and Syria while Iranian workers are barely able to pay for basic necessities.  

Dear amirparvizforsecularmonarchy,

I agree with your posts. Of course, IRI killed Bakhtiar, Farrokhzad, Oveissi, Shariar Shafigh, the people in Mykonos, etc. I was being sarcastic by saying that those were "false flag" operations, just like the IRI terrorist bombings might be "false flag" operations (as some others here suggested). The IRI was responsible for all of these acts that I mentioned. And of course, the IRI's Number One victim is the Iranian people. But, it is absurd to say that we shouldn't worry too much about the embassy bombings, hijackings, hostage-takings, kidnappings, etc -- because "we should avoid condemning one as we are condoning or looking way about the other". I find it particularly interesting that a resident/citizen of the U.S. would want to avoid condemning the IRI for taking Americans hostage, hijacking American planes, kidnapping Americans, and blowing up American embassies. That shows a nice attachment to one's adopted country, don't you think?

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

You are a reasonable person and seem to actually care about Iran. However I get mad when I read a never stopping stream about "hikers". Or about some bombing. But nothing about Iranians being killed or terrorized.

Meanwhile gangs of "Lawyers" want to steal Iranian national treasures. Against all international norms while being cheered on by "Iranian Americans". The whole thing is making me sick. 

What happens once IRI is gone? Do we want Iranian people stuck with a bill? After years of torture and murder then get them to pay for IRI as well! There is a disconnect between Iranians in Iran and the diaspora and getting bigger.

Simorgh5555

This IRI is so corrupt and run by such filthy crooks that they value the money they all make from oil more than the people of Iran.

If they cared about Iran, they would give up their big bank accounts and realize the people of iran hate them and want them to go to hell and leave the people of iran alone.

However they are prepared to kill to hold on to the free oil money and it looks like the idea of peaceful removal is only going to get us so far.  Eventually they will have to be removed the old fashioned way from their money and power, house by house.

I read what you said

my first 2 posts were to amir 1973

my post to you was in agreement.

Who's sensitive today VPK? 

Have a chai and laugh it off, we have a terrorist regime to bring to justice and a united nation to liberate, from chimpanzee IRI, which interpret koran based on gorilla khomeini's version of islam using his 4 brain cells.

Amir

Afarin be shoma!
Our number one enemy is the IR. The demonstators in Urumiyeh were freedom fighters and martyrs against the Terror regime destroying Lake Urumiyeh. God bless their souls. The resistance must continue. If innocent people are attacked they should tear the Basij from limb to limb.
This is purely a crisis started by the IR Terror regime which refuses to pay a cent to the conservation of Lake Urumiyeh and continues to build dams and factories which are destroying this lake.
Our solidarity must be with the people of Urumiyeh as this is an issue which affects Iranians from Tabriz to Sistan. United We Stand!

How many times

Do I need to say I agree that IRI is responsible for terror against Iranian people. How many times do I need to say I think both Bakhtiyar and Farrokhzad were murdered by IRI.

Does anyone here read my posts? Or do people just have "knee jerk" reactions. I am seriously thinking of leavig IC due to the kinds of people on it. People seem to have their minds set on something. Then ignore whatever others write.

If I say "A" they say you said "B". You are asking for unity? In your dreams. When we don't even have people READING a post how do you get that. I see that people are not willing to even read my posts before jumping all over me.

VPK the Key to Unity is in Opposition to Terrorist IRI

1) we all agree the way the regime treats people is against their human rights

2) we are going to pursue some level of justice against every single employee and supporter of this terrorist system.  The Long arm of Justice may take it's time, but it will reach them all eventually.

3 unarmed protestors killed in Lake Urmia protests

Hundreds of the unarmed yet wounded protestors were arrested at hospitals in the area.  Terrorism 101.

Are we sure that the police that arrested these peaceful protestors that were attacked by basij on bikes wth clubs are really police,

I mean they maybe mossad in Iran to make the IRI look like a gang of incompetent criminal thug terrorists with less of a brain than a monkey?????????

Or could it be just the terrorist chimpanze IRI?

You decide.

Bakhtiyar was terrored by IRI who put pressure on france to

release its government paid assains.  Upon arrival to Iran they were given medals by basij. 

IRI is without even a small shadow of a doubt a terrorist government against its own people. 

They have killed more than 50 Iranians abroad and many many times more within Iran.

Faramarz

I firmly believe that both Bakhtiyar and Farrokzad were murdered by IRI. Please read my posts fully so you understand my reasoning. I don't want a bunch of lawyers suing Iran for money.

I do want IRI goons brought to justice. Don't get me wrong but my idea of justice is not selling the Persepolis Tablets. Do you get my drift? In other words punish IRI leaders but don't punish Iranians. Right now more Iranians in Iran are being terrorized. By focusing on non Iranians we disconnect from them. Do you want that or do you prefer to have the sympathy of Iranian people.

What I see here on IC

Are several different points of view. So how do we get unity that Mehrdad and RG want?  Of course not all people always in one camp. Many go back and forth.

• To some IRI is responsible for every horrible action (I am exaggerating) and West does no wrong.
• To some West is evil and does no right.
• Others blame everything on Israel.

In my opinion we have a middle ground. Not every crime is due to IRI. The Oklahoma City bombers or the Unabomber did not work for IRI.  I want to keep the focus on Iran. Not on the "hikers"; not on Argentina or anything else. That is the way to connect with people in Iran. I know a lot of people who live in Iran. Honestly they could care less about the hikers or khobar towers. You do not get their support by talking about these. Instead you need to talk about how they are victimized.

They want to have a brighter future. Unity yes; but based on common interests. Not on something that most Iranians don't even know about. As I said by the time any court is done trying IRI officials they are gonners. So focus on their crimes in Iran. Much closer to "home" and much simpler to prove.

When You Don't Have the Facts!

VPK,

There is a famous saying which applies to your logic.

"When you don't have the law on your side, argue the facts, when you don't have the facts, argue the law, and when you don't have either the facts or the law, just argue!"

If you read the details of how Bakhtiar or Farrokhzad were so brutally murdered, there should not be any doubts in your mind who was behind it, even if you are afraid of lawsuits.

Re: Odd statement!

First of all I do have 100% proof. I have the word of people I personally know. My friend at age of 16 was taken never to be seen again. What more proof do I need? How about photos of Neda being shot? Or the long list of prisoners.

Second, I already explained is a practical matter. As you know West wants to milk Iran. Read: Iran as a whole nation and not just IRI. An example is the Persepolis Tablets where American lawyers want to sell our national treasure to pay off some ***. I don't want to see Iran burdened with a huge "damages claim" for generations. Therefore I put the bar really high when it comes to claims against non Iranians. I hope you see my reasoning and I want IRI primarily held for terror against Iranians.

Don't worry there is enough proof to put all the IRI away ten times over. I just don't want West getting any ideas of lining their pockets with Iranian money.

How do we know IRI has committed terrorism against Iranians?

Do we have 100% proof? Isn't it possible that CIA-Mossad-MI6 are killing opponents of the IRI both inside and outside of Iran and just trying to make the IRI look bad? Bakhtiar, Oveissi, Shariar Shafigh, and the Kurdish politicians killed in the Mykonos attack are just a few among many anti-IRI Iranians killed outside of Iran -- those also might have been the work of CIA-Mossad-MI6.

I agree with VPK completely (part 1)

This is not to say that IRI plays nice or play by the book with foreign adversaries, but we all know that none of play nice and unless we are to hold all accountable to the same playbook, we should avoid condemning one as we are condoning or looking way about the other.

However, the [internal] crimes against Iranian people are not subject to comparison with other nations playbook, in that to say N. Korea or Saudi Arabia or even US does it, therefore it is OK for IRI to do it. These crimes are against our people and they all MUST be held accountable in a [just] court of law. If a just court can not be provided in Iran, they should be held accountable in an international court.

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

Reality-Bites

Once again, I agree with you pretty much all the way. I would also add that Saddam had several months opportunity to withdraw from Kuwait before the U.S.-led coalition attacked. He refused to take that opportunity. On the issue of the Argentina bombing, there are a number of Interpol arrest warrants, including for Ahmad Vahidi (current IRI defense minister), Ali Fallahian (former IRI intelligence minister), and Mohsen Rezai (former head of IRGC).

Dear Rality Bites

I know that Saddam had claims on many regions. He wanted to be the "Arab" nationalist. However to be fair Kuwait was drilling side ways wells into Iraqi territory so they were not innocent. Now to the actual exchange these are the details:

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Glaspie#Meeting...

From the discussion: We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America.

Basically it sounds to me like the "Green Light". Right  after Saddam was given an ultimatum to leave. If he was smart he would have taken it and left. That would got him out of the trap he stepped into. But being a bonehead he refused. Then US had all the excuse to wreck a pretty modern Iraq into the stone age.

Odd statement!

You would not accept accusations of terror committed by the IR/IR agents outside Iran without 100% proof? Then what do you base your belief that IR is committing terror inside Iran? Is that backed up by 100% proof?

Responses part 1

• I agree that IRI is responsible for some terrorist attacks. The ones I do know about are those against Iranian people. There is no doubt there. I prefer to focus on those.
• I do not want to give "ambulance chasing" lawyers in the West fodder. Because they want to sue Iran as a nation and milk it. Therefore I would not accept any accusations of terror outside Iran without 100% proof.
• Therefore the greatest crime of IRI is against Iranian nation. That I am in no disagreement. IRI officials must be held responsible. Tried for their crimes against Iranian people and made to pay the IRANIAN PEOPLE!

VPK

Regarding the discussion between Saddam and American Ambassador, you didn't say exactly what Saddam was supposed to have asked her prior to the invasion.

From what I have read, Iraq has always considered Kuwait part of its territory (as it does Khuzestan) and disputed the borders that Brits drew between the two countries when Iraq and Kuwait came into existence.

According to Wiki's article, the American Ambassador had essentially responded to a question by Saddam regarding the border dispute by saying that "we take no position on Arab affairs", which is not quite the same a "yes go ahead and invade Kuwait, we don't mind".

Now, one could argue the Ambassador's response was very vague, especially knowing Saddam's aggressive character, but even if Iraqi invasion is what the Americans wanted, I'd find it hard to believe they would be foolish enough to openly tell Saddam, that they didn't mind him invading Kuwait.

Going to your point regarding proof that the IR was behind the Buenos Aires bombing, well, none of us here can actually produce any proof on nearly all the topics we talk about, because we don't have access to them. For example, unless we actually sit in a court of law with witnesses' accounts/DNA/ballistics/film footage/expert testimony/finger prints etc, I can't "prove" to you that the IR was behind the murder of Neda Sultan and they have consistently denied they were. We're just a bunch of people talking on the web, but based on all the news reports, we know that it is 99% likely that IR was the guilty party behind Neda's murder.

It's the same with the Buenos Aires bombing. Having said that, the Argentinian Police/investigators do believe they have a strong case against IR agents and if you search on the net you can find articles/info as to why they they think so. But, I do agree this does not necessarily constitute as proof unless and until it goes through a proper judicial process.

VPK,

My main interest is Iran and the IRI. Do you believe that the IRI is responsible for terrorist acts or are they just CIA-Mossad-MI6 "false flag" operations?