WHAT IS ISLAM?

PANDORA'S BOX

First of all I must congratulate you for your honesty. Because you are one of the very few people using this site and admit not knowing what Islam is. A lot of those who are particularly racist or rude do not know Islam. I did not read all of your comments because I did not understand some of it and do not have enough time.

Well this religion is a bit like many other things you hear a lot about, such as one thousand and one night. A lot of Iranians don’t know what story it is. Islam communities were initially like Christian ones. People lived in peace and harmony. Until a few centuries ago when Europeans, in particular the British, decided to invite themselves into Persia. The word extremism was not heard until recently. It is a long story but to save you reading a lot here just ask any Iranian what is the connection between the British and mullahs, they will tell the lot. This was Iranians first shock and after that came the others. The Islam you hear and see in Iran today is not exactly what it meant to be. For some Iranian Muslims it is unthinkable that the Quran can be printed by their enemies too, who may deliberately twist the meanings. This is an issue that you hardly hear about. And I strongly believe this is happening. But hopefully a lot of Iranian Muslims are more intelligent than those unfortunate nations who have more of the new version of this book. What they read is different than what conventional Muslims read. Just in case you ask how is it less people know about it, because those who have the new version are not supposed to show their Quran to the better informed Muslims. After all it is supposed to be a sacred book.

Also you said religion is like a box of cloth. I say this religion, at least, is like a Pandora's box, you never know what you might expect. This is particularly true since the revolution. Political agitators find Islam very convenient and that is why the Islamic nations are in such state. One reason is because these nations usually have oil. Anyone with some political motivation can easily agitate Muslims. But then the duty of a good Muslim is to choose the right path for himself or herself. In other words, Muslims may be being tested. It is what we think and do matters not how many times a day we pray.

Pendare neek, Goftare neek, Kerdare neek .....

Great!

We don't HATE each other so we might as well try to learn to LIKE each other.  I'm game.  Let's let it slide.

Rosie

This discussion is going in circles like the other blog.  You offend me by saying you people should do this and that and I offend you by saying you are like a christian missionary among slaves.  Round and round we go.

So here's what I'm going to do for you (Jersey City slank :-).  I probably won't say anything anymore and you will have to press me REAL hard to say anything.  I can let go like other stuff which is offensive.  It certainly isn't any more offensive than others saying Iran should be bombed or war waged against Iran and I don't always say anything against them. 

I've made my point and so have you.  Perhaps this can become an inside joke and we'll just watch how other people react.

No I don't wanna delete this blog, it says EXACTLY what I think

about defining Islam or ANY other religion and I will refer to it or re-post it as a reply on a thread probably one day, the first part.  Also I am against deletion of blogs as I explained in my last long post to you before you deleted  your blog

So fine, what I said about you here I think was TERRIBLE for you to see (never thought you would in a million years) but on the other hand your favorite characterization of me (you were saying it back in December) is as bad as ANYTHING I've seen since the moderation system began and it not only hurts, it shocks and wearies me. It is as TERRIBLE as anything anyone could say here to ANYONE.  I'm anti-colonialist.  Always have been always will.  I have NEVER treated anyone here with any disrespect unless they attacked me first.  My s[itual view has a LOT to do with Mazdaism and Iranian Sufism  so how could I be a.....when I was influenced by Iranian religion and never tried to impose anything.And on and on and on ad infinitum, the reasons why that characterization is so repugnant to me.  Well now I FINALLY said something "wrong" about you so....

I always am

I always am

I was beginning to wonder......

Good to know that you are in your good mood mode. :o)

Solh va Doosti

Nadia

Natalia

What do you mean?! Yes when Haji was around, there was more material to talk about.  Somehow I get the sense that you guys think I'm upset or something.  No I am as free as a bird and as I've told other people in this website, read between the lines and choose your friends.  I would not be talking to you 2, if I was upset or something.  You guys may be seeing this all wrong, I don't need a long reply, we'll meet again on other threads.  Rosie, if you want you can delete this blog, it's your choice and it doesn't matter to me. Come on guys cheer up!

Yes, Mouse, I do believe it may apply to all :o)

Sometimes it is just not worth the ulcer.

I must say that you were much more fun, when Haji was around. I hope that he is doing well.

Solh va Doosti

Nadia

"I am tired, I am weary, I could sleep for a thousand years,

a thousand dreams that will await me, different colors made of tears"--Lou Reed

I thought this blog was TOTALLY buried.  Too bad for me. But I am constructing a reply.  It is long and I will send it privately as I said. If I could delete I would.  I'll check one more time but I don't think I can.

Natalia

I wasn't holding on to anything to let go. This is just a website where people talk to each other.  Remember that poem about being quiet? Should we talk or not talk?  I prefer not talking most of the times.  Let's go with the flow.

Mouse......

Sometimes it is best to let it go........take a deep breath and exhale....:o)

Solh va Doosti

Nadia

Fun?!

Fun?! how so?

I am editing this comment not to hide anything but because

it is insulting to the person I wrote it about.  I never dreamed ANYONE except MAYBE Natalia would find or bother to read this blog other than Natalia because we osometimes track each other.  You can quote me if you like.  But I don't want the comment to  remain here since it seems now other people MIGHT (might might might might( read it.

I am sending a reply anyway. Fine if you don't answer but I will send.

Anonymouse blog

Did he actually delete it? I did not find it in my tracking.

Solh va Doosti

Nadia

Lost,

:-)

What is Islam?

Well it is , like other religions, a peace of play dough! Yes, a peace of play dough every individual (all, including believers and disbelievers) like to take it and mold it in a form (our interpretation) that makes sense to us.
For sure, The life ....is a belief and striving for that belief!

Peace;

Dear Salar, Thank you for your post

but I know a lot more than you think I do.  I was veru active on thi site through January but just returned recently so some people know me here and some people don't.  I guess you don't.  For example, you can see what I know about Velayate-faghi in my post to Natalia on her current blog Iranian Politics.  Or for my knowledge of Attar see my poem THrity Birds which you can access under Contributors at the bottom of the home page.

Having said that you voice an opinion that is very prevalent of course and needless to say in Iran there is a shift among many young people toward Mazdaism and also Christianity and Buddhism.  I alos agree that medieval Iranian Sufism was suffused with Mazdaism.  But isn't that the whole point of my blog?  Islam is whatever you make it, whatever you want it to be.  Haafez is the box too, so is Attar, so is Molanaa, so are the many people even ON THIS SITE )!!)  who consider themselves devout Muslims but who are Sufies in their sensibilities. 

Islamacism must be separated COMPLETELY from Islam in Iranian politics if a solution is to be found.  By demeaning Islam you frighten the traditional people and drive them into the hands of the totalitarians because they see it as their only choice to protect their Muslim identity. While you leave the more avowedly Sufi types at sea, they don't know where to turn and you hear them all the time on this site feeling confused and rejected, like the Bahai

I do not see Khomeinism as simply the last gasp of that invasion 1400 years ago.  Khomeinism is an odd phenomenon and it is also totally modern.  It is just as much a product of the Fascist movements of the 20th Century as it is a neo-Zoroastrian movement with the West as Ahriman (Yazd), all Iranian Shiism being in some sense a latter-day Zoroastrianism, and it is as much an attempt to reestablish the Islamic CALIPHATE as it is to reestablish the PERSIAN EMPIRE.  It's a very very odd thing.  And it too shall pass.

And the sooner people leave Islam alone (for the VERY reasons you mention, because it is what any individual practitioner makes of it) the sooner you'll be able to get rid of Islamacism.

Thanks again,
Rosie

What is Islam?

“you all want a TRUE PARLIAMENTARY DEMOCRACY IN IRAN.” “Why are you missing the boat? You are missing the boat because…”

Thank you for teaching us why we are missing the boat.

“some people just read whatever I write regardless of title and I want to try to convince them to TOTALLY obliterate ANY further discussion of what Islam is especially from the political discourse. There can BE no fruitful political discourse until this topic is CANNED.”

This paragraph demonstrates that you think we Iranians are dumb and need a non-Iranian to tell us what kind of discussions we need to have among ourselves. Thank you for your kind condescending concern.

Islam in Iran

The situation is much more complicated than you can even imagine. As you said you are not that familiar with Iranian culture and its problems with Islam. Islam in iran is totally a different phenomena than what it is outside of iran. First it was a foreign religion that was imposed upon Iranians and from the very first day of its entrance it faced a fierce and firm resistance. Iranians that had lost governmental power to the Arabs and their religion/culture started a cultural revolution hence it led to sufism, essmalism, and finally shiasm. If you study the very core of these you realize they are nothing like Islam and in fact quite against it,(sunnis consider these all infidels and not because they have imams and sunnis don‘t). They even consider their sufi scholars much higher in status and merit than Muhammad himself which is an absolute heresy in the eyes of sunnis. For Iranians Islam is always a political religion, because it was brought to them by an abrupt invasion of their historical adversaries which were considered inferior in culture and status and imposed on them by the enemy’s government and force. This invading force has remained and Iranians have struggled for power for 1400 years. What you see as IRI is a manifestation of this remaining invading force that is rooted in the clergy class and the religious class surrounding it. Valayat fagieh is yet another attempt by motehajerin (those who only have blind faith) to diffuse the Iranian version of Islam, or should I say non-islam. In conclusion, that democracy and parliamentary system you talk about won’t happen until Iranians first deal with this invading force. They almost got so close to eradicating it before but Mongols invasion and the threat of ottomans didn’t allow it to complete. Perhaps now they have another real shot at this and must get it right. From what I have experienced and seen in iran (and not by outside of iran including stuff you see on sites like this) they are moving towards the right direction.

if you ever want to have a mind storm and know what Islam is in iranians mind, read some of the early work of sufi scholars, I guarantee you a huge bang for your money. just don't ask the uninformed souls with BMWs on westwood blvd.

Dear Rosie

I don't know if I agree with some of your opinions but your desire to promote peace is commendable.

There are other people who like to attack people's religions. They have some kind of a problem and they are likely to start some kind of a conflict rather than promote peace.

Shalom, Salam

Congrats!

I guess then leave the title. You will certainly attract pro and anti Islam individuals. However, getting them to completely separate Religion from Political discourse, is going to be a tough one.

Best of luck! :o)

Solh va Doosti

Nadia

Why the title?

Because some people just read whatever I write regardless of title and I want to ctry to convince them to TOTALLY obliterate ANY further discussion of what Islam is especially from the political discourse.  There can BE no fruitful political discourse until this topic is CANNED.

And I WANT to attract the Islam-definers, the dogmatic Muslim ones and especially the rabidly anti-Islam ones, who LOVE this topic and seem to gravitate to it like moths to a flame, in the hopes that a few of them may be somewhat swayed.  Or, to put it another way, I tried to trick them.  :o) 

My non-definition of Islam or ANY religion is unassailable.  It CANNOT be seriously refuted.  If anyone tries to debate me on it I will REFUSE.  Islam is Benazir, Islam is Khomeini, Christianity is Jerry Falwell, Christianity is Mother Theresa, Socialism is Allende.  Socialism is Stalin.  bla bla bla bla bla. 

Rosie

Okay, Robin.......

If you don't care what Islam is or isn't, which I already knew about then why the title?

You are only going to attract people trying to debate Islam because of the title choice.

Solh va Doosti

Nadia

THIS BLOG IS TO SHIFT FOCUS TO REAL POLITICAL CHANGE

in Iran.  Discussions about what Islam is or isn't are FUTILE and DOOMED.   IVA:   Islam is Benazir.  Islam is Khomeini.   Islam is al-Queda.  Islam is the Golden Age of the Abbasids.  Islam is Wahabbism in Saudi Arabia.  Islam is the Yemeni man who works in the grocery store downstairs who puts things on a tab for me when I don't have money on me. I DON'T CARE WHAT ISLAM IS OR ISN'T and I WON'T debate it here.

Is the Yemeni downstairs going to execute you for apostasy?

HOW CAN THE ENORMOUS POTENTIAL OF THIS WEBSITE BE HARNESSED TO EFFECT REAL CHANGE IN IRAN AND IN THE WORLD?

Iva, if you care, start your OWN blog on what YOU think Islam is and I will repost my analogy of the box of clothes.  That is all.

Rosie

I disagree

Islam is a cult first and whatever you wish next.

The other day, I watched a program about a skin head in jail who have been place in solitary cell for his own protection. why? Because he has decided to leave the cult of skin heads and what is one of main rules of skin heads, no one leaves the cult until they are dead or they shall be killed. Does that reminds you of an islamic rule ... Those who leave islam must be killed.

Eroonman, "You Can't Always Get what You want

but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need."

 Internet:  the only hope left to bring power to the people.

iranian.com: almost half a million hits PER MONTH from INDIVIDUAL computers.  The only English-language Iranian bloggging website that REALLY TRIES to be inclusive of people of ALL political persuasions.

Keep trying.  

Khaamoosh.

Rosie

You are possibly reading the wrong book...

I suggest that you stop reading the Qoran for answers to Iran's problems. Read it's constitution.

Specifically the part where there are no amendments allowed and especially the part where any attempt to change the constitution is illegal.

These new areas were added after Khomeini died (so you can't blame him) and are the poison pill of the IRI, designed specifically to prevent any dissent to the supreme council's control, by making any change to the constitution utterly illegal.

So Iran's constitution is locked in. That means it can never be changed. Certainly not by dissent (that is illegal), certainly not by parliamentary procedure (there are no amendment rules), and certainly not by wishing for all of us to get along, as you seem to suggest.

All of this may have been based on the Qoran in theory, but Iran's current constitution is a pure lesson is tactics and technical tyranny.

The game is rigged to allow only one group to win. The rules say you can't change the rules, and the people who are winning the game, set those and all the other rules.

So now what?

You Can't Always Get what You want

There is no comparison

You can not compare religion with laundry.It seems to me that the author had no study of different religions and is rejecting them outright,before even making any efforts to study different religions,and one can not judge faith based on behavior of a leader.Wether they wanted or not any religious government does what ever it can to survive.

Double post. Delete.

Delete.

You are wise. One must first change a character.

One's own. //iranian.com/main/blog/rosie-t/nation

Khamoosh.

Rosie