IDEAS

Rapacious nations

the fact is that our leaders around a 100 years ( i dont know when exactly) ago should not have sold out our nation to Brits ect...they came in said "wow you have oil, we will refine it and we can both make money and the daaayooos leaders said okay" ever since that happend we have been getting raped by them in one way or another. shah ect were more civilized than the leaders today, however, he was the bitch of western nations, shah lovers have to admit to this... The current leaders act as though they are independant i have no idea if they are or if they are also the west's bitch... either way the original sell outs of our nation messed it all up for us today and for some years to come...hence the pro arab ideology, islam ect...we need to look back and find out who we really were and gain our idendity. Generally persians are smart ppl and we can do a whole lot if we come together, however we seem to not be able to do this very well yet we are usally still very sucessful..I dont know why.

Blind Vision

Do the Impossible

Without compromise
You may have built
A tall building
Floor after floor after floor
All the way to the heaven
But you are not going anywhere
Unless by reversing yourself
To put the last brick of blind spot
In your empire estate ratina

Abdouaelhassan Danesh
Copyright ©2007 Abdouaelhassan Danesh

Dear Mid-Westy

Do you know who you are talking to. What you are saying is too high for these kids to understand. They don't know anything about Iran. I use to have a friend who might be one of these guys/authors who did not believe that we have "Donkeys" in Iran! They all are dreaming and think that shah and the west gave Iran so much and the revolt happened because the people were backward. Now some of this uneducated group preaches Zoroastrian???? I have nothing against that religion but come on. These guys have no clue as far as what is the history of Iran and what Islam means to the Iranians.

I was Qumars Bolourchian's teacher at Hozye Elmiyeh Qom

He used to get into a Booshkeh (Barrel) with a hole on the side. The rest of us used to line up and stick our thing into the hole....

Mar Mar-e-too Bokhoram

The Heart of Storm

All
My grand
Masterpieces
Proved to be a failure
For they were composed
Right from my own heart
Without the slightest compromise...
Had I made them all instead
Right from people's heart
I would have won the world by storm

Aboulhassan Danesh
Copyright ©2007 Aboulhassan Danesh

zoroastrians are hendi fireworshippers

it's not a real religion. and the story of it is just as ridiculous as any other. get an original idea instead of looking for freedom in fire and zartosht jamshid badbakht

Iranians were more welcoming of Arabs then

and they are not welcoming of Americans NOW. The reasons were simple, times were different. People's understanding of modern nation states was not what it is today. People did not consider themselves "Iranians" only that they paid taxes to the Persian Empire. That's how empires worked back then, there was no "nationalism", except for the ruling class and clerical class, like there is now.
This is consistent with all history books and only to the extent that such historical hypotheticals are even debatable. This question is only an intellectual curiosity by people who don't fully understand History. I can personally say that if I was back in Iran and did not know what I know today, I would probably welcome the Arabs. But knowing what I know today, I may not. But that's not realistic. Maybe if Arabs had not invaded, Iran would be much worst off than now. In any case, history has unintended consequences, they cannot be judged after the fact. For example, if it wasn't for Hitler, there would be no Israel. Does that mean, a Jew going back in time should support Hitler? These are stupid questions. What matters is what we know today. What we know is that Iranians would be killed and Iran would suffer as a result of a US invasion. We cannot change the past, but we may be able to stop a disaster in the future. So please, stop wasting your time and OPPOSE THE WAR ON IRAN.

TO: Jamshid and jamshids

You said: “This is an interesting topic for debate. Yes, I do agree with you that the….”

You easily brush that off, as far as I know some of these old Iranian religions/systems advocated some kind of cast system and that is why they collapsed so easily in face of their adversary. Unfortunately the same phenomenon is happening to at least two similar groups, namely the Yazidis (mostly in Iraq) and the Parsis (mostly in India) i.e., their way of life and traditions are disappearing.
Maybe those who can not adapt will not survive. Your idealistic ideas, and prejudice against Arabs or others won’t stop that.

Re#2: Midwesty

I wanted to respond to one of your remarks in a separate reply because this could become a debate that would take a life of its own.

You said: "... Why don't you mention the corrupt and discriminating Sassanid dynasty that divided Iranian nation into smallest chucks in which people got tired of it and found the new message of equality that came with Islam...".

This is an interesting topic for debate. Yes, I do agree with you that the Sassanid dynasty was decaying both in the palaces of the kings and also in the temples of the Zoroastrian priests. And that the people, the masses, were suffering. Having said that, I still believe that when the Arabs attacked Iran, the Iranian masses fought back both the Arabs and their message of Islam, and in the process got slaughtered by the Arabs. Of course Salmane Farsi and his likes who, in my opinion, were a small minority, betrayed Iran and supported the Arabs.

Look Midwesy. I want to mention a very close anology here. Follow these sentences:

- The Sassanid ruling class were corrupt. The reformists were supressed.

- The IRI ruling class is corrupt. The reformists are supressed.

- The clergy during the Sassanids were also corrupt and did not want to give up their power.

- The clergy during the IRI is corrupt and don't want to give up their power. 

- During the Sassanids, despite of Iran's riches and wealth, Iran's economy was suffering and the masses were suffering. A large part of that was due to domestic incompetence and also the wars against the Roman empire.

- During the IRI, despite of Iran's riches and wealth, Iran's economy is suffering and the masses are suffering. A large part of that is due to domestic incompetence and also the stand off against the USA in greater Middle East.

- The Arabs came with the intention of invading Iran, taking over its wealth, immigrating to it in mass, displacing the Iranians, and Islamizing Iran. All this with their message of "equality."

- (Assume that) the USA today intends to invade Iran, take over its oil fields, AND immigrate in mass to Iran displacing the Iranians AND impose Chirstianity on Iranians. All these with their message of "democracy".

Question#1: In case of the above scenario, will the Iranians who are fed up with the IRI fight back against the invading Americans, or will they accept the Americans and their message of Christianity/Democracy with "open arms"?

Question#2: What will YOU (Midwesty) think of those who support the invading Americans and show them the know hows of conquering Iran easier, and then be placed by the victorious Americans in positions of wealth and power?

Question#3: If you (Midwesty) were taken back in time to 1400 years ago during the heat of the Iran-Arab war, whose side would YOU take? The Iranians who were busy helping and accepting the invading Arabs with "open arms", or those Iranians that stood and fought against the invading Arabs?

Please answer all the 3 questions above. I look forward to continuing this debate.

Re#1: Midwesty

Midwesy, I am replying to your comments and I hope you will reply to the questions I am asking in my reply. To make it easier I have bold faced those questions. 

You asked me why don't I talk about AbouMoslem and how Iranians contributed to Islam and science and so on. I do talk about those! All the time! It just happened that I was touching a different subject in this thread. Additionally, those are subjects that have been talked about during the Pahlavis and today during the IRI rule. What has NOT been talked about EVER, even in the previous regime, is the truth about how Iran became a moslem country. the moslem clerics have always hidden the truth from us, or manipulated and changed them, then fed them to the people. What is so wrong for our side of the story to be heard and debated?

You wrote: "...damages you are inflicting on Iranian psyche by portraying Iranians as an always oppressed nation..." Where did I portray Iran as "an always oppressed" nation? I did portray those Iranians who were conquered by Arabs, specially in the first century as oppressed. Do you think Iranians were not oppressed by Arabs after being conquered?

I also portrayed "Zoroastrians", AND NOT IRIANIANS, as oppressed ever since after the Arabs conquest. Do you think they were not oppressed?

Now I would like to ask you my most important question to which I hope you will answer: Based on the above explanation I ask you Where did I protray Iranians as ALWAYS oppressed nation?  And if I did not, which is the case, why did you say I did?

You also said: "You are not serving ... Iranians by ... portraying them as a oppressed nation who needs help from the outside..." Where did I say they need help from the outside?

If you can't answer all of the questions in boldface, then there is no dialogue and no reason to continue this interesting convesation. So please answer them.

Re:Mehran

What one claims as a truth is his/her opinion utill is supported with the facts. I don't see too many facts in this article just some opinions which is respected but certainly can be challenegd, as others such as Q and  Daryush has done it earlier here. Mr. Rashidan has dodged questions and Jamshid has been insulting people as his technique. I don't see any answer from them that contains any fact. Do you? 

Re:Mehran

What one claim as a truth is his/her opinion utill is supported with facts. I don't see too many facts in this article just some opinions which is respected but certainly can be challenegd, as others such as Q and  Daryush has done it earlier here. Mr. Rashidan has dodged questions and Jamshid has been insulting people as his technique. I don't see any answer from them that contains any fact. Do you? 

To: Midwesty

To Midwesty: It is only your narrow perception. In contrary, I find this article very empowering for Iranians.

Truth always hurts but it can not be hidden forever.

Dr. Rashidian, Jamshid

You don't know how much damages you are inflicting on Iranian psyche by portraying Iranians as an always oppressed nation. That is not true that Iranians were oppressed all the time, that they were helpless all the time, that they need help from outside all the time. Why don't you mention the Yaghoob Leith and Abo Mosleme Khorassani's uprising, why don't you mention how Iranians changed Islam by supporting Maamoon's brother Amin and ended the most powerful Empire by then Omayyeh's Empire? Why don't you mention how Iranians made Islam more dynamics by teaching Arabs philosophy, math, language, sciences, medicine, astronomy, and on and on. Why don't you mention that nobody kills an Empire but Empires commit suicide? Why don't you mention the corrupt and discriminating Sassanid dynasty that divided Iranian nation into smallest chucks in which people got tired of it and found the new message of equality that came with Islam. You are not serving Iran and Iranians by taking them backwards and portraying them as a oppressed nation who needs help from the outside. Iranians will take care of their problems whenever they are pleased to do so. 

Reedam beh sareh tamameh

Reedam beh sareh tamameh Eslamistah! JAVID IRAN VA JAVID SHAH!

All you Islamists can come and wash my toilets, just like your ancestors have done for generations!

LOSERS!

Mr Rashidian, go to school before you write ....

Your filthy thought process indicates lack of education, and being on drugs. You need some schooling before you can dig into complex socio-economics issues. Go have a cold beer, you truck driver.

Haveech

//www.bidari.org

//www.bidari.org/index.html

Dear Jamshid

It was some 11 or 12 years ago that I first came across the publication 'Payame Azadegan' in Montreal. I fell in love with its contents with its beautiful layout and above all I was amazed by the fac that it was writtten in Persian without using arabic words, sometimes some very common arabic words written inside brackets in front of the Persian one, in order to make its reading easier for most Iranians. That publication helped me and many other Iranians to learn and understand our history and identity and how this had been nearly destroyed by the invading Arabs. The editor and publisher of the publication was Dr.Kourosh Ayamanesh, a true Iranian patriot and reasercher. Years later, he was savagely killed by the islamic thugs in Paris, thugs hired by the Iranian regime who wanted to silence this noble and brave man. My God bless his soul.I owe him many things as an Iranian, although after his death, his publication stopped, some of his old colleagues and fellow reaserchers published parts of the publication on-line. Dr.Araymanesh's only purpose was to help Iranians help themselves by knowing the truth, but the descendants of those savage arabs who killed dear 'Babak' killed him in the same way. His words and his teachings will survive in the heart of many Iranians. Shame on all arabzadegane irani.

Thanks for the link

Ba Sepas

A Few Notes

--The High Council of Cultural Revolution is now led by Ahamadinejad who replaced in 2005 Khatami. It is to mention that the council has expanded in number and projects considering Khatami’s era not enough adaptive to the Cultural Revolution.

--They even want  a second Cultural Revolution to purge universities of secular and reformist, ex-brothers.The Cultural Revolution, though a born-freakish-failure, continues in all aspects, not only by Basiji students, but also by street fighters of the “Morality Police” bashing “bad hijab” women, and “unislamic” men.

--I am sorry for the mistake “ Khomeini, in his Friday Prayer sermon” , I would remove the controversial sentence, however, as some commentators pointed out, the sentence dose not change anything because  the order was from Khomeini, even if quoted by another. 

--There is no obsession or any discriminative intention towards Arabs. I did not mention the word ”Arabs” at all, as a pro-IRI’s commentator pretended. Here is the paragraph I wrote, "while the Chinese one in 60th was an attempt to hasten a socialist society, the one in Iran is a regression to revaluate the norms and values of primitive clan society of Arabia in the époque" (epoch) "of Muhammad, the Prophet."

We all learnt in the school books in Iran that Muhammad became the Prophet in a "barbaric, semi sauvage, primitive...society of Arabia".

Nothing is here racist and no humiliation meets today's Arabs. 

Re: Kamangir

Kamangir, thank you so much for the wonderful link you provided. I looked at some of the other publications from that same site and I think you have provided me with food for weeks to come. I am overly exited because I found a lot of the publications I used to read in www.kavehroom.com , a site that for mysterious reasons suddenly vanished. I thought I'll never get my hands on those readings. But a lot of them are found in the site you provided

There are so many truths about our past that has been "forbidden" and hidden from us, even under the Phalavis. For each of those truths, there is a parallel lie that has been shoved into our minds. Instead of mourning Babak's savage death, we mourning the death of a "paapati" Arab called Hussein. Instead of mourning the death of Ibn Muljam Moradi, a vengeful Iranain who assasinated Ali, We curse and damn him. 

I find these disgusting. But the wave of enlightenment about our past that started in the late 19th century and which has engulfed Iran, and continues even during the IRI period, shall one day wash off Iran's face from all these "khod bakhteh" who proudly worship the rapists of their ancestors.

Read and feel the cries of your ancestors....

Long after the invading Arab armies butchered the Iranians and forced them to convert to Islam, long after Iranians lost their identity and independence, there were those who dreamed of a day far in the future when a savior will appear and restore Iran. It did not happen. But our ancestor's immense pain could be "felt" in their romanticised stories that passed from generation to generation.

One of those stories in which you can feel their pain is depicted in the following Zoroastrian apocalypse in which there comes a messianic king (Bahram Varjavand), who fights a cosmic battle of world-historical proportions, and who, after his glorious victory, returns Zoroastrianism to its rightful place as the dominant tradition of Persia. (Translated from Tavadia 1955, 31-2. Pahlavi text in J. M. Jamasp-Asana, ed):

When may it be that a courier comes from Hindustan (hindúkán),
(And says) that: "The Sháh Vahrám from the descendants of the Kays (Kings) has come,

That there are a thousand (hazár) elephants, and upon their heads, are the keepers,

That he holds the raised standard in the manner of the Husravs,

That the advance-guard is led by the great army chiefs!"

An intelligent man (mart í basír) should be made (our) clever interpreter,

Who may go and speak to the Indians: Namely, "What have we seen from the hand of the Arabs (dast í tácíkán)!?

For the unique people they ruined the Religion (dín) and killed the kings (cáhán).

We are from the Aryan (stock), they are like the Dívs;

And they hold the Religion [as nothing], eat the bread like dogs.

They have taken away the sovereignty from the Husravs,

Not by skill, nor by manliness, 

They have taken away by force from men

(Their) wives and wealth, sweet places and gardens,

Capitation-tax they have imposed, they have bestowed it upon (their own) chieftains,

They have demanded a heavy tribute,

They have taken it away (and) made mockery and scorn,

Consider how much evil that Druz has cast upon this world,

So that nothing worse than that --- oh world!,

FROM US SHALL COME that Sháh Vahrám,

The Glorious (án ÿáh Vahrám í Varcávand), from the descendants of the Kays (Kings),

We will bring vengeance on the Arabs (tácíkán),

As Rótastahm brought vengeance -- on the (whole) world,

Their mosques will we cast down, we will set up fires,

(Their) idol-temples we will dig down and blot them out from the world,

So that 'nihil' shall be the miscreations of the Druz from this world (hac én géhán)."

Ctesiphone in fire!

//iranpoliticsclub.net/history/ctesiphone/

This is Iran infested with Islam

//www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?...

Stop Iranian genocide by Islamists.

Jamshid, Thanks for historical info.
Stop Iranian genocide by Islamists.

Dear JamshidThanks for

Dear Jamshid

Thanks for your notes, which is the real history and sad events and consequences of what arabs did to us. However, I really doubt their descendants in Iran could even feel sad about this, because after all their are the descendants of those same arabs who came to massacre and kill our dear Persian culture. We should also point out what happened at the famous city and palace of  Tispoon (madaen) when Arabs invaded it. How many were killed and the wealth and beauty of the city was stolen and taken to Arabia along with many slaves, including 'Pirouz' (known by arabs as abu lolo) who later killed Omar the arab, as revenge. We should also point out the existance of hidden insurgent groups across Iran during the centuries after the invasion, groups such as 'Sorkh Jamegan' and their leader Babak Khorramdin, other freedom fighters such as Yaougube Leis Saffarid and sanbad and many others such as Behzadane Khorasani (known by the arabs as Abu Muslem) It goes without saying that the conquered 'majus' had to choose an arabic name, and although in public muslim, they kept practicing their dear faith of zoroastrianism at home. That the existance of 'zurkhanehs' goes back to the years after the invasion, where many scattered Persian military leaders and freedom fighters gathered to practice their military skills, under the excuse and name of 'sport' or physical exercise.  There were large number of arabic tribes relocated to Persia, who made the the life for Iranians really miserable by applying to them the rules who have refered to and many more humiliations. taking Iranian women to Arabia was a common practice since the very first days of their invasion. Omar was known for saying: Che khooband zanane zibaye parsi baraye mardane dalire arab. The cultural damage caused by that sad event goes beyong imagination. But if we still speak Persian, if we still practice some (every day less though) Iranian events and if we're in existance as persians was and is because of many brave Persian man and women who bent ober backwards to keep our beautiful and unique and valuable culture alive, risking their lives and dying for it. It's a big mystery how a sofisticated culture like the Persian could possibly feel attracted to a subculture brought upon them by the most savage people on earth in a totally incomprehensible language to them. The myth of accepting Islam with open arms, is one of the most baseless and mediocre distorsion of our history. The times made us forget what our ancestors went through, under Arab rule. Unfortunately our land is occupied by the descendants of those arabs who brought misery and death to us. Our Persian soul will always survive the dark forces of the natsy subculture of the hot deserts of Arabia and their cult of death called islam.

I really don't see the point;

One thing for sure is that Islam enriched our culture tremendously. Don't tell me Ferdowsi, Sa'adi, Hafez and Rumi are not inspired by Islam, unless you're an idiot who likes to ignor the reality and history.

Racism has no place in a civil society. Give up your nonsense. Whether you want it or not, your genes are altered by arabs, europeans, Mongols and others....SO what...you're still a human being, perhaps a smart one!

Peace to all humanity;

To all my fellow Iranian compatriots... Please read this:

In one of my previous comments, Q asked why Iranians didn't hold on or convert to their pre-Islamic religion. Here are several historic examples as to why they couldn't:

During the Umayyad dynasty the Persians were called Mawali. an Arab historian named Obid wrote:

The Mawali were not allowed to lead the prayers or receive booty even if they had participated in battles and distinguished themselves.  They were not allowed to ride horses, marry into Arab families, or administer governmental or religious affairs. Even the offspring of mixed marriages were not exempt.  The Mawali did not have the right to walk alongside an Arab; if a Mawali met an Arab carrying a load, he had to carry that load to the Arab's home without expecting any payment.  If a Mawali were riding a horse and saw an Arab, he had to dismount and allow the Arab to ride instead.  In fact, he had to take the Arab to his destination.

When Qutaibah bin Muslim under the command of Al-Hajjaj bin Yousef was sent to Khwarazmia with a military expedition and conquered it for the second time, he swiftly killed whomever wrote the Khwarazmian native language that knew of the Khwarazmian heritage, history, and culture. He then killed all their Zoroastrian priests and burned and wasted their books, until gradually the illiterate only remained, who knew nothing of writing, and hence their history was mostly forgotten...

By the order of “Yazid ibn-e Mohalleb” in Gorgan so many Persians were beheaded that their blood mixed with water would energize the millstone (sange aasiaab) to produce as much as one day meal for him, as he had vowed. The event of blood mill has been quoted by the generations of Iranian Zoroastrian families to this day.

On the way to Mazandaran the same commander ordered 12,000 captives to be hanged at the two sides of the road so that the victorious Arab army pass through. Upon arrival, many more were massacred in that province and heavy tax (Jizya) was imposed on the survivors.

When the city of Estakhr in the south put up stiff resistance against the Arab invaders, 40,000 residents were slaughtered or hanged.

The Arabs named one of their battles "Jelovla" (translation: covered), because an estimated 100,000 bodies of the slain Iranian soldiers covered the desert.

During the reign of Shah Abbas Safavi, the followers of Darvish Mahmood Passikhani who were called Ajamiyoun (Persians) and believed that the Arab era is over and the new Persian period is to begin were massacred. Shah Abbas personally executed several of their leaders. His serious concern about the Pahlavi philosophy and reversion caused him to carry a harsh anti Zoroastrian policy.

Shah Abbas dispatched troops to the Caspian province of Mazandaran and forcefully converted them to Islam. By this time not only the province had remained Zoroastrian but was ruled by a Zoroastrian dynasty named Padouspanian.

Soon after the accession of Shah Soltan Hussein (last Safavid king) to the throne, he issued a decree that all the Zoroastrians should convert to Islam or face the consequences. Nearly all were slaughtered or coercively converted, few fled the blood bath and took refuge in Yazd and Kerman. A total of 80,000 Zoroastrians lost their lives, and the entire population of Isfahan’s Gabrabad was massacred.

The reversion concern and writings of the Shiite clergy produced generations of hateful majority that despised the Zoroastrians as fire worshippers and considered them to be impure and outcast. This hostile sentiment did not cease after the Safavid and the misery and massacres went on.

Ayatollah Rouhallah Khomeini who was very concerned about reversion of Iranians to their ancient roots also wrote:

So there it was, and there it is today with IRI. Now you tell me how Iranians could have gone back to their roots? How can it be done as long as the likes of Q are there to stop us even at the cost of massacring us all, as his likes had gladly done before.

The great mystery

It's one of the mysteries of our times, that there're still Iranians living in the west that still defend the criminal regime of Iran and their practices. Although, the best way of understanding this mystery is spending some time in the city of Vancouver, where you'll see first hand who the vast majority of the Iranians living here are. A bunch of aftabe be daste, taze be doran resideye nime hezbolahi. These must be some of the ones that are writting comments here, defending the islamo-fascist crap as well as trying to explain the mediocre, stone-age rules of Islam.

Get this straight honey! Nonone gives a shit about your Islam and your version of it in Iran. We all have had enough of your endless lustful religion and profet.

As why Iranians never switched from Islam?

Islam has been very brutal for Iranians. In every traditional family, Islamic rituals were forced by higher order to lower ones (including giving physical punishment for submission). In society, Iranians were also forced to submit to all Islamic rituals.

The following experiment may explain as why Iranians could never go back to their old religion:

//72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:D2tQpCZ4cPcJ:s...

How is a a paradigm formed?
A group of scientists placed 5 monkeys in a cage and in the middle, a ladder with bananas on the top
Every time a monkey went up the ladder, the scientists soaked the rest of the monkeys with cold water.
After a while, every time a monkey went up the ladder, the others beat up the one on the ladder.
After some time, no monkey dare to go up the ladder regardless of the temptation.
Scientists then decided to substitute one of the monkeys. The 1st thing this new monkey did was to go up the ladder. Immediately the other monkeys beat him up.
After several beatings, the new member learned not to climb the ladder even though never knew why.
A 2nd monkey was substituted and the same occurred. The 1st monkey participated on the beating for the 2nd monkey. A 3rd monkey was changed and the same was repeated (beating). The 4th was substituted and the beating was repeated and finally the 5th monkey was replaced.
What was left was a group of 5 monkeys that even though never received a cold shower, continued to beat up any monkey who attempted to climb the ladder.
If it was possible to ask the monkeys why they would beat up all those who attempted to go up the ladder…..
I bet you the answer would be….

“I don’t know – that’s how things are done around here”

Does it sounds familiar? Islam and Iranians! Islam and force, savagery, lashing, stoning, public hanging and more.

Only two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not so sure about the former."
Albert Einstein

A quick correction in regards to 9 year old virgins

Islam allows pedophiles to have sex “legally” with 9 year olds. Moslems say, having sex is OK because girls have their period at that age.

1) Even in pre-islam era, people considered sex with a minor an offensive act. Hence, the Islamic “sex with a child” laws were created by their pedophile leaders to give their sick act a sense of legality.

2) It is a fact that some of female children do physically mature at an early age, however, no child will be mentally mature enough to have sex on basis of love, affection, desires and understand the consequences of physical intercourse.

3) Islamic calendar is based on Lunar rotation, therefore, lunar years are shorter … meaning, a 9 year old girl is actually 8 years and a few month old before she is RAPED.

Why Moslems follow the teachings of child molester is beyond me.