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Islamic attack on democracy
19-Jun-2008
The Islamic Republic of Iran has reached the highest level of illegitimacy. The Illegitimacy is now an evident characteristic of the regime and henceforth can hardly be denied by an increasing majority of people in and out of Iran. Therefore, the Islamic regime, especially its so-called reformist factions, needs activists in the West to prop up the claim of regime’s legitimacy.
Among the various pro-regime cyber-media in the West, Iranian.com is one of the most read websites. Although, it has a secular character, because of its high popularity and openness to any idea cannot escape from the supporters of the IRI.
IRI’s supporters and lobbyists and on this site are three main groups:
--the first group consists of Islamists, either pro Ahmadinejad or not, they are the absolute devotees of Khomeini, the founder of the IRI, and his ideals for an ideal Muslim community, Ummah. Whatever their differences with each others, their writings on this site unmask their of Islamist attitudes; aggression, superstition, anti-democracy, anti- Persianism and anti-non-Muslim culture are their common attitudes. They attack, slander, humiliate and threaten any writer on the site, who rebuts legitimacy of the IRI.
--the second group does not share all traits of the first group; however support the IRI by showing their own ideological or political conviction. They side with the first group in many aspects.
The second group seems to be the teammates of the first group and fulltime staff hired and orchestrated by the institutions of the regime. They are mostly present on the site to do the job. Their job consists of attacking any other thinker who does not tolerate the regime. They incite feeling of nationalism, fear, populism to support the IRI against the “foreign enemy” while attributing feeling of self- deception, immaturity and weakness to people in order to prolong IRI’s parasitic life.
--the third group is a category of regime’s supporters who are supposed to look like “opposition”. This fake opposition consists of some lobby groups, ex-collaborators of the regime and those who have personal interests. They are supposed to neutralise all ideas and activities of the “subversive” opposition.
Although, members of this group mostly live in the West and are enjoying their western lifestyle, paint a rosy picture of daily life in Iran. They come also to the regime's rescues by ignoring or playing down the plight of people. In fact their unconditional supports for the regime go beyond that of some pro-reformists or factions within the regime in Iran. Even protest within the factions of the ruling system sparks their reactions-- Ebadi’s warning of human rights conditions in Iran can be criticised by IRI’s lobby groups in the West.
It is to mention that a segment of the opposition mistakenly considers the second and third group “leftist”. However, the word “leftist” cannot objectively match IRI’s supporters in any circumstances because the regime is in total contradiction with the philosophy of socialism. At best, these IRI’s supporters or lobbyists are “lumpans”, sold members of an antagonistic class to a reactionary regime like the IRI, as Marxist theory of “deception” describes. In fact, they prove a “false consciousness” which irrationally leads them to support one of the most anti-socialist regimes.
IRI’s supporters, malignly or roughly, convinced or self-sold, propagate a series of pro-IRI views which deem to determine people’s passivity. Either religious or ideological, and so on, they attempt to patch up the fate of Iran and Iranians with the further survival of the IRI. This fatalism is to be imposed to all Iranians and especially on other thinkers.
In this perspective, sensitive issues like the military attack on Iran, economic sanctions on Iran, US invasion of Iraq and precarious sovereignty of Iran (initially violated by the regime itself) and IRI’s nuclear progamme are their major issues “Ottoman’s shirt” to insist on IRI’s survival while totally camouflaging the non-Iranian, barbaric and vile characters of this regime.
The second and third group rarely raised the problem of human rights in Iran. Even so, they parrot baseless claims that human rights, democracy, and social justice are improving under the IRI. IRI’s lobbying activists argue that the main factors for economic problems, increasing gap between social classes and human rights violations are not due to the IRI’s mismanagement, class character, and Islamist brutality, but rather the pressure of the West, immaturity of people and resistance from the victims of the regime. They suggest tolerance, patience and acceptance toward the regime.
IRI’s Achilles’ heel is its record of human rights violations. By arguing that all ills of Iran come from any factor but the regime itself, all IRI’s supporters are at the first place supposed to highlight the external factors and western coercive policies as the normal reasons of IRI’s atrocity.
IRI’s supporters on Iranian.com misuse the democracy on the site to support the undemocratic Islamic regime in Iran. Their message concludes baseless and dehumanising condemnation of all other thinkers on the site. They implicitly come to the following conclusion: since the West is the main enemy of “Iran’ (the IRI), any material on this site against the regime automatically parallels with a ploy of “anti-Iranian” enemy. Therefore, any protest toward IRI’s legitimacy deserves legitimate punishment of “traitor”.
Religious or secular, under original or fake name and avatar, aggressive or demagogue, these three groups attempt to blame, slander and weaken the true opposition to the ruling clerical regime.
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Jenaab-e Rashidian
by Mammad on Mon Jun 23, 2008 01:12 PM PDTIt is not just the secular people who want deep changes in Iran. Judging by elections in Iran, probably 85% of people want deep changes, and not all the 85% are secular. In fact, I contend that most are not, at least not the way seculars are defined in the West.
In addition, I believe that it is an illusion to think that the exiled Iranians can play any significant role in making peaceful changes in Iran. It must be, and will be, done from within. The only ways the exiled Iranians can play a role in changes in Iran is by,
(1) either being the voice of a democratic movement in Iran which does exist, but not strong enough yet, or
(2) cozy up to US and Israeli warmongers and, by lieing, exaggrerating, etc., encounrage military attacks.
If one aspires to be the voice of peaceful changes, he/she must consider the great variety of opinions in Iran. We have non-left secular, leftist seculars, Islamic left, centrist Islamists, centrist secular, right-wing secular, and right-wing religious, in addition to reactionary Islamists, and reactionary seculars who are a tiny minority. There is no way of saying which group is the largest. Thus, any reasonable approach should consider the heterogeneity of the population and the great variety of opinions.
Mammad
Nadia
by Zion on Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:42 PM PDTNo problemo, I'll try to be good but I can't really promise about being little. Anyways, why do you include this sarcasm tag along all the time?
You mean your day was actually darkened by me? Sorry about that, but I rather like being able to call a dirty pig a dirty pig. :-)
//www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfi...
Nice music though, thanks.
Iranian.com removed my comments.
by Khodam (not verified) on Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:51 AM PDTWhoever you are, shame on you. Your action is pathetic and is double standard. If you don't respect my rights to express myself then how could you claim you are respecting democracy? You just say things which you either don't understand or don't believe in. This is why Iranian could never resolve this simple fundamental issue. That is why we are still in this shit hole and we shall never be able to get out of this shit hole, simply because of people like you. Self centered, selfish, arrogant, hypocrite, prejudice, oppressor, corrupt and oblivious to reality. Shame on you and your kind.
Another Brilliant Article
by Mitra from khuzistan (not verified) on Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:47 AM PDTAnother Brilliant Article from Jahanshah Rashidian
It was time for someone to mention the obvious! Mr Rashidian,you do not need to explain yourself to anyone! I admire your pasion for honesty and love for our homeland. Thank you
Little something I had to share :
It is them that need to explain to us ! It is very simple either you are with us the people of Iran or with the Mullahs(IRI). I have said it time and time again if anyone defends IRI in any shape or form is simply a traitor to our people! There is not time for TAAROOF anymore! Yes sometimes we must be firm and blunt to relay the message. Iranian have not done that and that is why IRI has survived! IRI supporters have been insulting our intelligence to many times on this web site! We can not fall into their web. One does not need to have a high IQ to have a common sense! One can be proud of Iran without supporting the IRI. IRI IS NOT A RREPRESENTATIVE OF IRANINAN PEOPLE. It is easy to suggest a glass of sangria and forget about the problems! However it is hard for me to forget my homeland! How can anyone have any mercy on a regime that has not shown any mercy on its own people? I am frustrated and hurt by irresponsible attitude of my fellow Iranins,and when I hear a voice of reason then I perk up and continue my little crusade of freedom for my IRAN. AZAD BAASH AY IRAN va ABAD BAASH AY IRAN
Something strange
by Muslim_Iranian (not verified) on Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:39 AM PDTThe author is complaining about giving rights to "Islamists" to express their opinion. He is upset that freedom of speech is given to those who he disagrees with and calls it "Islamic attack on democracy" while in reality is his attack on democracy.
Someone should write the Savaki attack on democracy, where a dude complains that there are others who are allowed to speak up their minds.
Makes you wonder what happens to Iran if people such as these guys ruled Iran today. Don't get fooled by their "secular" image, dictatorship and hate of all but themselves is written all over their foreheads.
Ananym7
by Jahanshah Rashidian on Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:59 AM PDTAlthough, I expressed myself in a reply to your comment, and other thread, you baselessly keep calling me, along with other opponents of the regime, "extremist, conspiracy theorist..."
Apart from your apparent support for the IRI, what would explain your criteria for such call namins? The truth of the matter is that people of Iran for long hav been the victims of the IRI, a regime run by the most extremist right-wing Mullahs, Bazaris and Haji Aghas of a parasitic regime protected by the new greedy capitalist powers like Russia and China. Yet, you call name the opposition to such a regime, " right-wing extremists"!
Our nation is a victim of corporate greed, corrupt and mafia capitalist expansion and that those who have vested interest in perpetuating the status quo in Iran.
US policymaking apparatus has interests to keep the satus quo, and in this perspective, the self-proclaimed IRI's lobby groups are at work to make succumb the activities of IRI's opposition in the West while bridging trades with such a leech system.
What is your cynical and at the same time your explicit position to such a regime which produces killers like Khalkhali, "hadi Ghafari" and Islamist thugs like the 1. group on this site, "reformist" factions, fake opposition, including 2. and 3. supporter groups on this site to its illegitimate agenda?
If you support Iranian people, hwo can in the same time defend or play down their oppressors?
Are your value judgments promoting the case of freedom and democracy in Iran or result into further survival of this oppressive egime? Is such an appeasement and dubious criteria toward holding direct and unconditional right of further survival for the IRI your balanced, moderate and non-extremist attitudes?
Should Iranians initially suggest fair solutions for any conflict in the rest the world, condemning the US invasion in Iraq, Israeli aggression in the ME... as the preconditions before defending their own right facing the IRI?
On Turkey's
by abc (not verified) on Mon Jun 23, 2008 09:10 AM PDTOn Turkey's future:
//www.meforum.org/article/1924
Zion jan,
by Natalia Alvarado-Alvarez on Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:01 AM PDTAlways finding a way to brighten our every day lives. (sarcasm) Now, don't forget to include (Venezuela) Hugo Chavez, (Cuba) Fidel Castro and Salvador Allende (Chile). Anyway, the list is extensive and we are already off topic.
Che Guevara
PS: Now be a good little Zion and play well with the others on the thread. :o)
Solh va Doosti
Natalia
Thank you Mr. Rashidian for
by abc (not verified) on Mon Jun 23, 2008 08:15 AM PDTThank you Mr. Rashidian for your response. I think the West is propping up Turkey to be the next Islamic Republic of Sunnis to counter the influence of the Islamic Republic of Iran. There are more than 1.2 billions Sunnis vs 350 million Shia. Turkey has the 18th largest economy of the world with a much larger GDP and Income per capita Iran's...
Guess who is going to be the regiional power in the Islamic world???
Mr. Kamangir
by Jahanshah Rashidian on Mon Jun 23, 2008 08:11 AM PDTAll Iranians regardless their political ideals, the form of state they prefer or even the religion they believe in should now consider a priority to focus on IRI's removal.
I am in line with many contributors in this site, peole like you, Farkad Kashani, Jamshid, and am in line with any voice which raises this priority.
Let's build a national, democratic and secular front from all people who desire removal of the regime. In a free Iran, people freely decide the form and orientations of the new state. Until then any split favours the regime to further survive.
This is the reason IRI's supporters flood on Iranian.com to disperse and confuse the opposition.
No I don't! (to Kashani)
by Anonym7 (not verified) on Mon Jun 23, 2008 07:26 AM PDTMr. Kashani, like your other right wing extremist friends and the writer of the article you are free to label, profile ... etc., that does not mean that one should pay attention to it.
Anyhow, to sum up,..., although the extremists of your type are secular they are by no means a democratic option. You guys have more in common with Hadi Ghaffari than you think. Likes of Hadi Ghaffari displayed their fascist nature after they took power. You guys are not even in power and display similar traits!
You extremists represent the view of a small frustrated portion of outside Iranians. A view that is not growing but shrinking...., and that is the source of your frustration. A frustration displayed by JR the profiler and conspiracy theorist! Blaming the the posters for your issues is not going to fix anything!
abc
by Jahanshah Rashidian on Mon Jun 23, 2008 07:25 AM PDTIt is a hard task to confront the IRI without being slandered by its supporters. See the slanders of some Islamic thugs like Amou, baselessly accusing me being a member of MOK, The site does no delete such name callings. One of routine slander is "warmongering" attributed to any denier of the IRI.
As mentioned in many writings, I reject war and blind sanction on Iran. However, a regime change, a la american , is not to be trusted and founded on the interests of Iranians. The West is traditionally more interested in the economic and geopolitical gains and does not seem to realise that political Islam not only threatens Iranian people, but also is a danger for the whole world.
The West still ignores that their barrels of Iranian oil cost many lives and poverty for people of Iran: therefore they immorally bargain or may bargain with the killers of Iranians.
Iranians must remove this regime themselves. The best help of internation community is to isolate the IRI and put under question its legitimacy because of its bloody human rights record, pratice of Sharia and non-electibility of its highest Leadership.
Khomeini, the founder of the IRI?
by Anonymouslucifercus (not verified) on Mon Jun 23, 2008 06:55 AM PDTthe real founder of the Islamic republic of Iran were those 30 million honorable Iranians. They founded their Islamic republic by sacrificing blood and life. Today they count 7ty million. Imam Khomaini was only the guide. he nevr claimed to be the founder. But he was it in fact.
IRI’s supporters on Iranian.com misuse the democracy on the site
by Faribors Maleknasri M.D. (not verified) on Mon Jun 23, 2008 06:49 AM PDTIs any body seriously convinced that whatever comes in "IRANIAN" can be a support for the Islamic Republic of Iran? Or damage that country in any way? In farsi they say: HARF BAD E HAVAAST: DO we have amything else than HARF IN our beloved "IRANIAN"? Is the Islamic republic of Iran in a dangerous situation? This question is not direkted to Bushy Bushy not to condolence not to olmert. But on realistically thinking individuals. can the Islamic republic of Iran BE supported from diaspora? and that with help of "IRANIAN"? Does the islamic republic of Iran need any support? The 16 - 20 main blogers and article writers of "IRNIAN" are convinced: Yes that country needs our support, of course it needs, All these considerations are far away from the reality. So please let it be with all these irreal questions and imaginary thoughts. Greeting
Suomynona ,First of all,
by Farhad Kashani on Mon Jun 23, 2008 06:09 AM PDTSuomynona ,First of all, everyone is free to believe what they want, and we never said it makes someone less of a person because they believe in certain ideology or religious belief, but we do have the right, like you do, to criticize Islam or any other religion or ideology, and we do realize that believing in certain things will have catastrophic results for other people, like when Khomeini said he’s here to impose Islamic law on our country and export his “Islamic way of life” to the outside world. That has had disastrous results for Iran and Iranians. Second of all, the disconnect that Iranians feel with religion in general has never been stronger nowa days. I go to Iran too, and any neutral Iranian will tell you that pre-1979, most Iranians kept a balance between their religious beliefs and social behavior. Now, many people are disgusted with religion, at least the form of religion that these IRI fascists presented, and that’s understandable. After what they have seen in the last 30 years, who can blame them? Finally most of us are saying exactly what you’re saying, that the core problem in Iran is the regime. Some people have the absolute right to tie the existence of the regime in Iran to the strong religious sentiments among a minority of Iranian society, and they believe if those sentiments were not strong, then the IRI will lose its base and thus its power. We want the regime to be removed, by Iranians, with the help of International community, IF NEEDED (Which does not mean we want the U.S to bomb Iran). So please set your priorities straight.
Anonym7, don’t try to
by Farhad Kashani on Mon Jun 23, 2008 05:55 AM PDTAnonym7, don’t try to retract. You know exactly what I mean.
Some remarks
by Zion on Mon Jun 23, 2008 02:44 AM PDTKamangir, Nadia
Yes, Che was some tough guy, wasn't he?
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5g24XFTbXc&eurl=ht...
But hey, he sells well:
//che-mart.com/
Bijan,
Very well said!
Iva,
Great response. LOL
Mammad jeba,
... Islamophobia, this is at the end of the day your inherent fault and the reason you will never be successful. You fail to understand that out side of just a HANDFUL of expat Iranians you will never get any meaningful support from the Iranian people. The vast majority of Iranians are Muslim. Islam is intertwined with and a part of our culture.
I just found this line of argument quite ironic given the supposed origins of Islam. I wonder if the logic of those poor arab tribes countering Muhammad was any different...
Jaleho are you still around?
by Free Thinker (not verified) on Mon Jun 23, 2008 01:30 AM PDTIf so, there is a reply waiting for you on this page from our common friend BK:
//iranian.com/main/2008/declaring-war-ira...
As he says exactly what I am saying, to honor the time and thoughts that he has afforded to your comments, I refer you to his reply. Mind you, I think BK has wasted his precious time on replying to you as you are not here to debate anything but to repeat what you have been programmed to say regardless of whether it makes sense or not.
Dear Kamangir
by Natalia Alvarado-Alvarez on Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:21 PM PDTThank you! I did read your response to my question on your blog. I am trying to get a copy of the book so that I may gain a better understanding.
I do intend to return to your blog in the future, having gained further knowledge. :o)
Once again Sepaas!
Best,
Solh va Doosti
Natalia
PS: I just noticed you have a new blog out Who belongs to IRI regime? . I wish you great success on your new blog.
Re: Natalia
by Kamangir on Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:09 AM PDTDear Natalia
I have a great respect for Che Guevara. I have read about him watched his biographies and listened to his speeches and I think he was a real revolutionary (that's my opinion,only)
He had real ideas, his own ideas not like the most Iranian 'revolutionaries' or ex-revolutionaries now living in the West, that were either a bunch of brainwashed islamists or simply leftists or both.
And again, there was no revoltion in Iran, nothing like it. I wrote a brief answer to you question on the 'What sets us apart' blog. days ago, which has to do with what I.m writing here!
Sepas
Kamagir......interesting that you should mention
by Natalia Alvarado-Alvarez on Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:25 PM PDTChe Guevara
Ernesto Che Guevara
Solh va Doosti
Natalia
Backvolution!
by Kamangir on Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:54 PM PDTAll ex-revolutionaries, ex-che guevara wanna be' should be reminded that their so called' revolution' was simply called so by the BBC and then other major media followed. They should be reminded that since the very first day khomeini got on that Air France flight their revolution was a sham, a joke! Or else this site would have its roots in Iran itself and not in California!
How about
by Iva (not verified) on Sun Jun 22, 2008 08:21 PM PDTSomeone asked, "How do you describe me? I am not bribed by anyone, nor am I forced to sway my opinion by anyone. Yet I do support the ISLAMIC Republic of Iran."
How about moron? That sounds fitting for someone who support a regime who has executed thousands upon thousands of young Iranians; A regime which has brought NOTHING but misery and distraught to a nation; a regime which corruption runs from the head or master of the country to the lowest rank policman on the corner street. A regime which cares more about which foot to step into a "mostrah" rather than providing universal health care with billions of petro dollars. A regime which gives $12,000 to each Lebanonis shiit families whose homes were damaged during their war with Israel and REFUSES to build adequate classrooms for Iranian pupils... the list is too long and the supporters are well aware of them.
Where do we go from here?
by Bijan A M on Sun Jun 22, 2008 07:46 PM PDTIt has been a lengthy debate and many contributors expressed different contrasting views without a resolution. Here is what I have learned as an uneducated observer:
1- What people would label me, defines who I am regardless of who I know I am.
2- I need to be unconditionally tolerant of my opponents to be a decent and civilized individual. Submission to aggressor and oppressor is a sign of civility and tolerance.
3- If you believe in democracy, you should allow your theocrat who has no respect for democracy piss in your face and run any propaganda he likes to silence you. After all, that is the definition of democracy!!
4- IRI is the symbol and the role model of a true democracy (according to Jaleho)
5- I should not consider IRI as a dictatorship. It is a democratic regime with some flaws that can be corrected with peaceful reforms.
6- I should bear arms if anyone threatens IRI with serious consequence for development of nuclear weapons. If I don’t, I am a “vatanforoosh” and a traitor.
That’s enough for me. I think I have learned plenty. I’ll rather sell burger at McDonald's than graduating from this school. At least I can sleep better at night.
What a bunch of nonsense……when are we going to wake up?
Re: ABC
by Suomynon (not verified) on Sun Jun 22, 2008 06:52 PM PDT"Does Loving Islam translate to loving the Islamic Republic???"... Answer: NO.
The people who have written against the religion of the people of Iran are as you indicated, Imani but also JR, Jamshid and a few others. If you would, check all their previous postings.
To the writer:
by mammad jebhe (not verified) on Sun Jun 22, 2008 06:28 PM PDTHow do you describe me? I am not bribed by anyone, nor am I forced to sway my opinion by anyone. Yet I do support the ISLAMIC Republic of Iran.
You people in the opposition should by all means keep pouring all your energy into Islamophobia, this is at the end of the day your inherent fault and the reason you will never be successful. You fail to understand that out side of just a HANDFUL of expat Iranians you will never get any meaningful support from the Iranian people. The vast majority of Iranians are Muslim. Islam is intertwined with and a part of our culture.
The best medicine for a person like you is to actually GO to the country you preach to. You are WAY off the mark! See what us Iranians are actually like cause believe me you (like the majority of the opposition) are very much alienated from the Iranian community. Now while I have many many faults with our government, it is in my opinion, inherently valuable and precious. You may have your own opinion and I will respect it, but as long as the goal of these people in the opposition is to attack Islam they are only burning more life into our Islamic Republlic and more fire into our people.
Eltemas Doa
Ya Ali Madad
This is so hot!
by Single Woman (not verified) on Sun Jun 22, 2008 05:42 PM PDTAny of you guys single?
I've been looking for a man who sticks to his views no matter how often they're proven wrong...
So many of you here in one place! I feel like a kid in candy store!
Suomynon: Excluding Mr.
by Abc (not verified) on Sun Jun 22, 2008 05:08 PM PDTSuomynon: Excluding Mr. Imani, I have not read any anti-Islamic rhetorics from JR or FK.
I agree that Mr. Imani's views are at this point counter productive and adds fuel to the fire.
Does Loving Islam translate to loving the Islamic Republic???
Mr. anonym7:You're still
by abc (not verified) on Sun Jun 22, 2008 05:02 PM PDTMr. anonym7:You're still dodging the questions...so be it. Obviously, your idea of reasoned debate is name calling and cheap exploitation of highly charged emtional issues such as war against Iran.
If Mr. Rashidian had ever advocated for an attack against Iran, I'm not aware of it.
Mr. Rashidian:
Mr. Rashidian, Is war on Iran by the United States or Israel your prescription for excising the cancerous regime??? I'm waiting with anticipation for your reply.
ABC, Farhad Kashani
by Suomynona (not verified) on Sun Jun 22, 2008 04:10 PM PDTI have been to Iran lately and spoke with alot of individuals, mostly low income people. Yes there are people who are unhappy with the regime mostly because of the cost of living and the cost of products which they can not afford to buy, but they love their religion. THEY LOVE ISLAM!
The people you support, attack the religion of Iranians, and therefore strengthen IRI by angering moslem Iranians.
Iranians inside Iran and outside, know that these attackers are not moslem and frankly DON'T like them.
I don't know if those individuals are a dying breed or not as Anonym7 indicated. But if they are, then I hope for the sake of a better Iran, it is sooner than later.