IRANIAN.COM

Ignore Mazloom. He's a cynic.

He only writes about tomatoes and underwear.

//iranian.com/main/2008/tomato-recall-0//iranian.com/main/blog/mazloom-ast/dont-wear-clean-underwear 

See what I mean?  I think it's a great conversation. At least I'm learning and that must count for SOMETHING.   After all, I'm one of the few resident kharejis here. And we need to be educated, Zion and I.  So I hope that I'll be reading more.  Much more.

Rosie

That proves my point!

I'm out of here.

over and out

Maz jan

Now, how did I get dragged into this?  I was just trying to quietly observe and learn from several people on this thread.

 I went back and read my little one sentence comment. No where did I label/accuse anyone of anything.

Solh va Doosti

Nadia

PS: By the way some of the people you mentioned are happily married.

You guys have nothing else to do

You guys have nothing else to do but to accuse each other?! Let each person say what they want. Nothing is going to change with these talks. Only some people’s underwear is going to get shitty from being too voracious, and others are just happy one way or the other and don‘t give a hoot, and others just say something just to say something, so to see what happens next  Go on be happy

Cheap blood of Iranian people is upon their own necks

Signed: biomid

انکار:  بی‌امید از من پرسید که اینرا تایپ کنم چون خودش نمیدانست چطور.  من مسئول حرف های او نیستم

P.S. These people don't have dates on this Friday night: Mazloom, Rosie, Mammad, KO, ABC, Bijan, JR, NP, Ebi, Natalia, Jamshid, Majeed

Bidaram: A bit of history

The two opportunities that you suggested are both valid, in my opinion. But, the reasons they did not succeed may require some discussions, and a bit of history.

1. Bakhtiar: He was expelled from his own National Front, as soon as he accepted to become the Shah's last PM. So, the revolutionary fever had also taken over the old men of the NF.

Then, he wanted to meet with Ayatollah Khomeini In Paris, and was asked to resign first. He agreed to resign, and in negotiations between him and the Ayatollah's aids, it was agreed that he would go to Paris, announce his resignation, and then be asked by the Ayatollah to continue as the PM. Bakhtiar backed off at the last minute, saying that if he did that, he would be killed by the Shah's Generals on his return to Tehran (which was probably true). You make your own judgement here whether Bakhtiar contributed to his own downfall.

2. Ayatollah Khomeini: I know that what I am going to say will not be liked by many, but here is what happened. Regardless of what we think or feel, history cannot be changed. 

During the last months of the Revolution, a new Constitution was drafted by Hasan Habibi, Sadr Haj Sayyed Javadi, and others, who patterned it after the French Constitution. There was no Velaayat-e Faghih in it. After the Shah was overthrown, PM Mahdi Bazargan presented the draft to the Ayatollah. He approved  and signed it (this is what Bazargan himself said and many of his "yaaraan" say now), and asked Bazargan to announce it. But, Bazargan reminded the Ayatollah that he had promised the people that the new Constitution will be drafted by a Constitutional Assembly (Majles-e Moassesaan). (This was, of course, due to Bazargan's honesty). The Ayatollah agreed. That put it on the wrong path, because the CA became the Assembly of Experts (Majles-e Khobregaan), then right-wing Islamists, together with followers of Mozaffar Baghaaei (like Hasan Ayat who was killed by the Mojahedin in 1981), added VF to the Constitution

The Ayatollah had also promised to go back to Ghom and not interfere in politics. He did. But, the strife between the NF and Freedom Movement of Bazargan on the one hand, and the right-wing mullahs on the other hand, brought him back to Tehran. He again wanted to leave politics in 1984, but was told that if he did, Iran would be overrun by Iraq.

So, Ayatollah Khomeini left us with an awful political system, and was responsible for lots of killings. But, to be truthful to history, one must also consider the historical events that took place then.

Hindsight is, of course, a wonderful quality. We can look back to 30 years ago and make all sorts of proclaimations, but we need to set aside our hindsight, put ourselves under those conditions, and then think about what we would have done. 

Mammad

Rashidian and Hamechi – Hichi Syndrome

As a member of the Mojahedin Khalagh Organization, Mr. Radshidian thinks just like them: Either everything or nothing. MKO people have not learned to think any other way. One day they are totally for IRI, the next the take arms and fight it or join its worst enemies (Sadam Hussein and USA). One day they love Iran, the next day they kill innocent Iranian citizens.
.
The answer Mr. Rashidians question is NON OF THE ABOVE. The majority of Iranians on this website and elsewhere just like Iran and would do anything to prevent harm against her. They may be pro IRI, against IRI, or indifferent with respect to IRI. But they love Iran regardless of their opinion and feeling toward the government. Mr. Rashidian and his fellow MKO members do not understand this. In their mind, they either should be in charge of Iran, or see Iran destroyed. All of the decisions and actions are driven by this state of mind.

Maz, WHAT are you trying to do?

Here we all were having a lovely conversation in English all day long and then YOU, YOU, YOU of all people come along to derail Natalia and me?  It must be a mistake!  I think some mozdoor is pretending to be you.  Or maybe YOU'RE the biggest mozdoor of them all?  (I mean, US all, we have many. many here, we're SWARMING with them).  Who is your real employer?  But, seriously, Maz, fereshteham, dustam. azizam, tarjomeh, lotfaan, NEMIFAHMIM!

AND NOBODY ELSE!  NOBODY ELSE!  ONLY HIM!  Let HIM sweat! He must pay...

:o(

Rosie Tozih

Explanation of Tarjomehs 

Bijan

I have no problem with you or anybody else to disagree with me. I love debate and discusions, and I have deepest belief in true freedom of expression and thought, although I am often attacked here, simply because I excercise my rights. 

But, there are people who comment on this site whom I find impossible to debate; not because I cannot respond, rather because it is clear that the debate won't go anywhere. Their opinions are too unblanced for me (but for me; others might think differently, and that is fine with me).

Take Zion, for example, who labels Israel as anti-colonialism, and once, in response to me, claimed that Palestine has never existed. Fred (who is probably the same as Zion), for example, who acts as a "smart...", and has never ever made a useful comment. Or Farhad Kashani, for example, who is amazed that I believe that human rights are universal values (how can one believe in human rights, but not its universality?), or who always speaks as if he has read everybody's mind and knows that "the vast majority of people" think this way or that way, or anybody who disagrees with him is a leftist, or (non-existent) Islamic Marxist, or an IRI supporter, if not agent. There can be no useful discussions with these gentlemen. 

Therefore, I no longer respond to such people. I respect their opinion, but just as freedom of expression is a right, so also is freedom of disagreement and, most importantly, freedom of silence. 

Mammad

بابا بیکار هستید

بابا بیکار هستید به هم تهمت میزنید?!  بزارید هرکی هرچی خواست بگه.  چیزی که عوض نمیشه با این حرفا.  فقط تنبون بعضی ها گهی میشه بخاتره اینکه خیلی حرص میخورن، و بعضی دیگه اصلا عین خیالشون نیست و همین جوری، یا همین نجوری خوش هستند، و بعضی دگه یه حرفی مزنن که معلوم نیست این وری هستند یا اون وری، فقط یه چیزی بگن تا یه چیزی گفته باشن تا بعد ببینند چی میشه.  برید خوش باشید.  خون مفت مردم ایران به گردن خودشون.

امضا: بی‌امید

Disclaimer:  biomid asked me to type this up for him since he does not know how.  I am not responsible for what he says

This is what I found on

This is what I found on Internet censorship in Iran.

Internet censorship in Iran is amongst the most restrictive and sophisticated in the world, a technical study has revealed. And much of the filtering technology in use was developed by western companies.

The Iranian government employs extensive internet filtering to block out content deemed inappropriate, according to a new report issued by the OpenNet Initiative - a partnership between the University of Toronto in Canada, Harvard Law School in the US and the University of Cambridge, UK.

Researchers remotely accessed computers within Iran's internet borders to test the restrictions imposed by the government. The team used a variety of methods to test the filters - dialling into Iranian ISPs from outside the country, connecting to desktop machines using remote-control software, and routing traffic through dedicated servers within the country.

They found that 34% of the 1465 URLs they tested were blocked, including 100% of the pornographic websites tested. Many gay and lesbian web pages were blocked, as were those hosting politically sensitive content - 15% of blogs and 30% of news sites were inaccessible. Sites providing tools and information for circumventing filtering technology were also blocked in 95% of cases.

//www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7589

Iran has adopted one of the world’s most substantial Internet censorship regimes. Iran, along. with China, is among a small group of states with the most ...
//www.cambridgesecurity.net/pdf/ONI-iran-coun...

Dear Rosie: My answer

Dear Rosie: My answer requires you to think as an American who loves Iran just as much as you care and love the US.

...Its not an easy thing to do I know. I don't expect a quick or short answer.

Also this question is for all non-Iranians (specially those who are political activists in the US or UK..etc) if you happen to be reading this particular thread.

Your answers will be greatly appreciated.

Bijan jan: Thank you for

Bijan jan: Thank you for your eloquent summation.

This is for AZAM: Do tell us how Iranians have it good...Spin is easy. Truth is harder. I hope you like the objective record more than spin:

Warning: Graphic

//www.liveleak.com/view?i=2a0_1185106657

BTW, Osanlou is hospitalized if anyone cares to know. The poor man's tongue was almost cut off by the Islamist goons 2 years ago.

//www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?...

21 year old Hana Abdi, former student and a member of women's association of Azarmehr in Kurdistan is sentenced a 5 year prison and exile in a remote town. She is one of many who are seeking to end the legalized discrimination against women. The revolutionary court in Iran has charged her to be a threat against national security.

//www.akhbar-rooz.com/news.jsp?essayId=15778
Women's Rights Activists Arrested

Eight women’s rights activists have been arrested on the Anniversary of the National Day of Solidarity of Iranian Women. Amongst those are Nasrin Sotoudeh, Zhila Bani yaghoub, Nafiseh Azad, Ayda Sadat, Nahid Mirhaj, Jelveh Javaheri, Farideh Ghaeb, Sara Loghmani.

//www.akhbar-rooz.com/news.jsp?essayId=15778

Niloufar jan

With all due respect, I did not appreciate your using the response to my post as the ground to voice your resentment of Mr. Rashidian’s post. I am certain that Mr. Rashidian is better qualified and more able to respond to your accusations. But, as a fair minded and unbiased person I feel obligated to respectfully disagree with you on many of your accusations:

 1-      I consider it slander to call Mr. Rashidian racist and have never seen any “anti-Muslim hatred” in any of his articles. I have read many of his “anti IRI” articles.  

2-      I took his assertion of highest degree of illegitimacy to mean the lowest degree of popular support in Iran and/or outside. As such, I think he maybe right (I don’t have the poll or statistics to back this up but talking to friends and relatives in Iran is in line with that claim)  

3-      The subject of his post was not the effect of warmongering on IRI. He has addressed that in other posts  

4-      I couldn’t find the quote  “you are either with us or against us”. If that’s you interpretation, you are entitled to your opinion. I didn’t have the same understanding reading his article.  

5-      How did he smear independent-minded people? Please give examples or quotes.  

6-      How do you expect him to acknowledge something that he may not believe in. I will not speak for Mr. Rashidian but, to your disappointment (and also Mammad) I don’t believe in rationality of a evolutionary regime change in a theocratic government. Can you please educate me and give me an example of such evolutionary change of a theocratic government, in history?  

7-      I do agree with you. It is also my opinion that materials posted here will make no difference on the fate of IRI. But, you can’t fault someone for having a different opinion.

Niloufar, you are a great writer, and I am glad that you have joined the Iranian.com community. I hope you don’t take offense to my response, because none was intended.

Your friend in disagreement,

Bijan

Niloofar jan: All those

Niloofar jan: All those questions have been dissected to death on this site to death. You can find your answer by looking through archives.

You are also naive to think the voting and election equals democracy.

I think Mr. Rashidian is against political Islam a la khomeini, which is nothing but theofascism. This has also been disgusted ad nauseum...

Mt. Ebi Amirhosseini

Thank you for your nice words. No IRI's apologist can reason the legitimacy of the regime, but instead they routinely slander other thinkers.  

Thanks NP for answering my question. I'm fine now, ABC./PS N

just give me a little time now to draft my answer to YOUR question, but it's LONG and it's COMPLICATED and it's a lot of WORK, so if you don't come back to this thread, I will find you in your aquarium, wherever that may be, and YOU will have to answer to ME!  

:oP

Rosie

PS Nadia/Natalia, you already know the answer to YOUR silly question.  We've discussed this many times.  Which team is winning?  There's only one team.  They just don't quite know it...yet...Men. men, men...can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em...can't live with each other, etc. etc...sigh...

Nadia

I think the spectators may be winning this one!

Rosie: access to the internet is basically open with the exception of a few websites (like facebook) being blocked, but people have ways of getting around it. I was in Tehran for Norouz this year, and even got free wifi access in my parents' apartment block. You can also buy prepaid internet cards at any newspaper kiosk for home access or use internet cafes.

Dear Bijan

I was fascinated by your balanced comment. Yes, humans are natural political, and the political life of the free citizens for Aristotel represents in self governing state "polis". 

The ancient ideal "polis" is now any real democratic society which can flourish all human skills bestowed by the rules evolution.

The IRI attempt in vain to prevent its citizen to evolve because democracy provides in turn more self-awareness. This has a religious limit.

Diffrent issues have different discussions and resonaces, but most Iranians bring up the vital question of freedom and know very well that its antonymous  concept is the IRI. The other matters are simply questions of taste and time. 

Alphabet Soup :o) , EVERYBODY, I have a question

in answer to a very serious question.  ABC wrote me:

"Imagine Iran and the US trade places and you as an American are stock with the Islamic Republic...What would you do politically and socially against the Islamic Republic?? Would you stand by and witness the injustice and corruption to continue indefinitely as long as you can come and visit the US every couple of years on vacation???"

and before I reply I need to know something which may seem irrelevant but it's not:

I know that many things are filtered so as not to come INTO Iran but what about non-political things going OUT?  I mean suppose I wanted to send photos of say, gardens, all over the Internet and other media FROM Iran, with text explaining our innovative advances in horticulture (they really do exist, I read about them on this website last year).

would not this information be under the radar of the censors and would I be able to send it anywhere I pleased? Including websites based in the US?

I need to know. Don't ask me why.  Just tell me please.

Thanks,
Rosie

Bijan

Bijan jan,

I think you are a really sweet person and far more intelligent than you seem to think.

Let me explain my objection to this article again, but in a different way:

1. the title itself says it all: it smacks of anti-muslim hatred of the kind perpetrated by the usual racist subjects

2.  It fails to explain how the IRI has 'reached the highest level of illegitimacy'. How for example is it more illegitimate now than say 5 or 10 years ago?

3. It fails to acknowledge that western warmongering has strengthened the IRI, just like Saddam did.

4. It basically says 'you are either with us or against us' while claiming to support democracy. Where have we heard that before?

5. It stoops to a very low level of smearing independent-minded people. 

6. It totally fails to acknowledge that it is perfectly rational to adopt an evolutionary, peaceful and optimistic approach to regime change.

7. It assumes that material posted here makes any difference to the regime in Iran at all when tons of material written by the US Congress, the UN and virtually all the Western media have patently failed to achieve this.

8. Despite all the inflated and baseless claims that it makes against several good-hearted people here, it totally fails to come up with any positive or useful suggestions.

I am new to this site, but I am no newcomer to blogging. It is JUST a form of communication. People talk to each other in person, on the phone and also on the internet. We are sharing information, experiences and meeting new people and learning along the way.

But this article's author wants to 'cleanse out' certain contributions in order to achieve a certain political goal. He should instead join a political party in my humble opinion.

Peace!

Dear Mr Rashidian !!

Once again, you awakened the "sleeping cells" !!

Best Wishes

Must be sleeping?

None can offer any ideology that is worth a penny except that they disagree with IR.

You must be joking! The solution has been on the table for at least 30 years; the only thing missing has been the strategy to get around that 1% of population with fascist mentality who would go to any length, any length, to impose their will on the people and get control of country's power centers and wealth by force, usually in the name of Marx or Mohammad.

Democracy is full of flaws, but it is the best solution in its full-fledged form to give iranians the opportunity to learn and improve upon their ability for self-determination. Had this happened 30 years ago, things would have been very different from the disaster that we see today.

Just in the past 30 years people lost two opportunities to street thugs to achieve a decent system of government.

Opportunity (1): Regime of Bakhtiar where islamic and leftist thugs were terrified of Bakhtiar's success and dragged the people to the streets with nothing but lies and empty promises.

Opportunity (2): Had khomeini had any decency, he would have been able to place himself alongside the greatest leaders of iran if not above them, rather than being cursed along side likes of Changiz and Saddam forever. The simple solution of "one man one vote", free from biases and interferences, was right in front of him, alas that he had his personal agenda and ambitions, no decency whatsoever, no sense of nationalism, and no mental capacity to see anything beyond the mambo jumbo that he had barely learned in qom and najaf seminaries.

NP and Rosie

So which team is winning so far?

Solh va Doosti

Nadia

Re: Azam

"I saw with my own eyes how far women have come..."

Tell that to the woman who got stoned.

There is something wrong with some of you

I believe that we must realize that we are fighting two fronts when talking about Iran. One is the IR and the other is the foreign, especially west that won't allow us to have a democratic Iran. Don't fool yourselves to believe that the west is there to help Iran, or any regime will be better than IR. Everyone want a democratic republic for Iran but please, please don't be so naive when you speak. It doesn't sound like you are aware about the political world and games. Another point here is what's the point of this article? Let's say that there are many IR agents or supporters, so what does that do? What it is that we want and how are we going to reach it?
I would make a comment although I don't believe in it myself, but something to think about. Is it possible that the author of this article also is trying to play a game while probably supports the IRI?
He is against the shah and has never said who he really supports. I am just saying to be careful.

Intimidated...

I feel a bit intimidated to post in presence of so many intellectuals with such great ability to express their view points in a foreign language. I respect them sincerely and frankly it gives me a sense of pride, whether I agree with their view points or passionately disagree.

I have been following this thread from the beginning and finally mustered enough courage to throw in my two-cents.

As starter I should say that I don’t look at this site (Iranian.com), or any other site for that matter, as a platform for regime change. I look at it only as a venue to exchange opinions, learn from many contributors, passionately stand against prejudice and blind hatred, voice my support for democracy and vent my frustration with the rule of Islam-fundamentalists in my land. 

 As Q put it, I am one of those “sad and pathetic people” who comes here to give meaning to my life and post comments to make me feel that I still matter.I have no expectation of regime change here.   I congratulate Mr. Rashidian for his article, not for what many on this thread have called labeling people, but, for expressing so eloquently his observation of the contributors to this site. I wouldn’t call it labeling, but rather, oversimplified grouping of a whole spectrum of people’s values and priorities in their political views. Many of us may have the same observations with our own grouping, but don’t feel confident enough, don’t have the fluency or don’t see the value in voicing them.  So Mr. Rashidian my salutations to your courage and confidence.  Why should it matter if someone calls me “this”, or “that”?, I know who I am and what my values are,  and no one can change it but me, through learning, education and open mind.  I do admit to having low emotional tolerance for insult (or what I perceive as insult),  blatant lies, or blind prejudice and am guilty of posting some emotional reactions, but that in itself does not define who I am.  

While I find myself in Mr Rashidian’s camp in his anti-IRI passion and the need for change, I have, in disagreement, tremendous respect for Mammad. I have learned a lot from Mammad on this site, but disagree with his approach to Democracy in Iran (and I have read his step-by-step procedure on how democracy can evolve in Iran).

You don’t have to be an agent of IRI (a supporter, or even a silent, indifferent observer) to prolong its reign. All I hear JR is saying is: we need to actively participate in stopping Islamist propaganda and speak against the regime’s atrocities. Many tend to mix the debates and as soon as a comment is posted against the IRI, even though they may be staunched opponent of IRI,  their dislike for US foreign policy, or their sympathy for Palestinian plight takes over, and the debate becomes something entirely different from what it started.

There is no doubt that the majority of posts on this site are anti-US, anti-west, anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian. In the course of many debates, somehow (relevant or irrelevant), Palestinian, Israel or US pops up and many who have passionate opinions about these issues find themselves arguing (unintentionally) in favor of IRI.

If we are offended by unjustly being labeled, why don’t we listen to the advice of our friend “Anonymouse” who was “So disappointed in this site…” and include a disclaimer in our posts that declares our position with regard to IRI.

Humble regards to everyone,Bijan

This is funny

Have you notice the IR opposition intellectuals? None can offer any ideology that is worth a penny except that they disagree with IR. lol. I am not surprised since if majority of you could think clearly would not speak like kids in 9th grade. This is priceless. Thanks for making a funny site to put an smile on my face.

Dear Rosie: Let's do a role

Dear Rosie: Let's do a role play here if you will.

Imagine Iran and the US trade places and you as an American are stock with the Islamic Republic...What would you do politically and socially against the Islamic Republic?? Would you stand by and witness the injustice and corruption to continue indefinitely as long as you can come and visit the US every couple of years on vacation???

Yes, Anon3000, quite right, so let us assume that this site is

thoroughly infiltrated by secret agents of all stripes and they "scour" the site like Brillo pads.  Let us assume (why not?) that it is so SATURATED with secret agents that their very secret agenthood no longer has much meaning, since they are all cancelling each other out.

And let us just talk to them like they were regular people since we don't REALLY know for sure who all these mozdoors are, and see if, whatever our particular ideology, we can ALL win a "heart and mind" or two and  meet somewhere in the middle in a kind of cerebral Valentine's Day.  Right here.  On this thread. Why not?

Always the optimist,

Rosie

PS I feel like Mata Houri...

Setiz

I agree with your first three points but for the fourth one, I do not see a coherence. Thanks  however for the coherent ones.