IRANIAN.COM

IRI is a political system

IRI is a political system and possess good and bad in it. It is amazing how some self-proclaimed geniouses like JR think that they can masterfully analyze this complex political system.

The err I see in this type of mindset is well said by Mammad:
They only see the world either as BLACK or WHITE. This is so UNreal. The world and all in it is made of different shades of gray - Nothing is black or white.

Branding people and character assassinating are methods that JR uses as IRI uses. To me they behave the same "sar va Tah yek karbasand".

So, why is IRI around? To me (a typical Irani who has no interest in making a living out of politics)the reason is that we see no difference between IRI or it's opposition. It's all hoax. The very same opposition will do the same attrocities that we credit to IRI if they rise to power.

Life will go on as is until every Iranian is educated and decide to take authorit and ACT RESPINSIBLY.

abc, rosie, mammad, parsi, rashidian, mehdi palang, anonymouse,

manucher, nassery, salar, roo ke  nist, meybokhor, beetlejuice, q, anonypishi, anonymouse8, jamshid, samsam, babak, abcdefgh, farhad and zion:

Now every body together "Yek salevat boland befrest!" to lighten your spirit and to get closer to God.

OOPS!! zion cannot send a "salevat". but he could learn. " the bossom of Islam is open to every body even to jews".

For non beleivers I suggest a cold glass of water,  wine or maybe sex.

Now lets go back to "Sahrayeh Karbala" 

Let us be honest here: what

Let us be honest here: what is the author actually asking for? What practical solution are you proposing once you have established that you want your 'opponents' to stop talking?

Mr.Rashidian does not in any way suggesting that his 'opponents' should not comment on this site. That can't be further from the truth.

You're imagining things my dear; although, I agree with you in that Mr. Rashidian does not propose any practical solution to the dilemma we face?

Mr. Rashidian: Telling flasehoods, lies, Prevaricating are feeding the ignorance that already exist out there; and that is precisely their intention; however, there are too many of them on this site and too few of us.

Dear Jahanshah Rashidian,

Dear Jahanshah Rashidian, you cannot and must not see Iranian.com as a vehicle of change for Iran's dire situation, or as a tribunal for exposing the IRI. This site has made it clear that it will not take a political stand against the IRI regime, despite its reach among Iranians.

We have to look for a solution elsewhere where we could spend our limited energy and resources in a more productive way. If that place does not exist, perhaps we should create it.

You're absolutely right in that assessment. We definitely need a site that will take a moral stand against the criminal leadership in IRI. Look at how many websites are out there in the US against the criminal regime of Bush et al exposing the whole bush-cheney cabal??

Of course: a neocon attack is here!

The nature of this attack on free speech is becoming clear. Every country has its necons who are first and foremost dedicated to extracting the most profit from the majority.

Actually,  the 'left' is responsible for most of what is good in the West, including various kinds of democracy. It was the 'left' that brought free education and free health (though they failed so far to achieve this in America, but they seem to have woken up now). It was the 'left' that extended the vote to the poor (first) and women (later) and yesterday's slaves (even later).

This is a neo-conservative backlash that has taken to openly calling for dictatorship, and is inching toward its goal by first attacking the right to free speech for those dedicated to peaceful coexistence and dialogue. It hides behind a call for nationalism and freedom, but its logic is the opposite. 

Let us be honest here: what is the author actually asking for? What practical solution are you proposing once you have established that you want your 'opponents' to stop talking?

We are all ears. 

Peace!

Good Points But Not Touching The Main Source

Mr. Rashidian, thanks for bringing up this subjects and for the many valid points you have raised. I do agree with you on many hings, especially on the fact that these people abuse the freedom granted to them to undermine it due to their ideological biases. The point I differ with you is when you touch on conspiracy theories. I am certain that some comments here are directly from IRI agents , but they are not the real problem. The real problem is indeed these leftist-Islamists, and even worse the leftist-sub-islamist types. I find it hard to believe these are agents of the Iranian Regime. They are something worse. They do this service for free, because of their ideological hatred of the liberal (in the true sense) free market basis that has liberated the West, and many parts of the east actually, and brought them prosperity. It is precisely what the left has become. It is not just Iran. Look at the left in America and Europe . Look at the left among Jews and in Israel. You see the same pathetic degeneracy in all of them. Look at Cuba, Venezuela, and Nicaragua bending backwards to ally themselves with Islamists. North Korea? China?
If you look back enough, you will see that this devolution is endemic to the left. The left began in Europe more or less when the counter attack of the Church failed. A coincidence? I doubt it. It is more correct to assume that the leftism is the inevitable mutation of the same inquisition mentality that could not cope in its traditional garb against the new world views and had to assume the mantle of such jargon to survive, and indeed survive it did. You see, it is a mistake to consider the basis of the leftism to be secular. They claim it of course, but the left has always been religious in its ideology. This is most clear in its radical forms like Marxism and Communism. They closed down churches, but so did muslims. So did Christians to their rival religions in the lands they took over. So it is no wonder that when possible, the left and leftism would support, ally themselves and then subordinate themselves with the purer, more logically consistent, less vague and hybrid tendencies that came to power because the leftism paved the way for them and prepared the cultural scene to accept them. Nazism and Fascim is one major example. Islamism today s another. I can clearly see the same types having the biggest share in bringing the Islamists to power, the greatest share in defending their rights from inside the West, and I can assure you, if Iran gets to be free again and act normally as a free market state ally of the US, these same types will constantly cry wolf and undermine it, they will be uncompromising and radical in opposing a free Iran, exactly with the same zeal they are compromising and gentle in their views of the current criminal in Tehran. It is endemic to them. Just look at the way they view the US and other Western states that has given them the chance to live with prosperity and freedom, and in cases even sanctuary against the same Islamists. Look at their parasitic life that feeds from the West and only undermines it. They can't help it, you see. It is endemic to their ideology.

It was great though to see them take offense at your remarks. It only means you were damn right and pushed the exact right button to make them shriek in protest. They know they were addressed. LOL. This is just getting better and better. Also nice to see them becoming protectors of freedom of speech all of the sudden. The same people who either advocate islamic censorship or remain silent. The same people who rant about zionist conspiracies and label almost everyone else, now become concerned about labeling and want rational discussions. LOL. Shows the best way to deal with them is to constantly expose them and keep them in their defensive little corner.

So Thanks Mr. Rashidian for showing this to us, and for your timely article.

Dear Irandohkt

"Language of paranoia"(!!!) Is in your psycho-judicial prognisis, a lawsuit against a murdrerer or his complice an act of parnoia?

Paranoia is an irreal and strong mental disorder in which the person has delusions of being persecuted by his illusionary "enemies". Has not the IRI's agents persecuted, arrested and violated people's freedom in reality?

I did not mention any name of IRI's complice, as you delusionarily concieved, it is apprently due to some personal patterns of your thought which pushed you to your call names.

Of course I appreciate any unity within the secular and democratic opposition, but for what goal? To make a deaf ear and blind eye to the IRI's atrocity, as some lobby groups commit? Or you mean a vast platform of unity to to defend the right of the oppressed in our country? What do you mean my dear Irandokht?

Nicely said Mammad

"The fact is, the loudest voices on this site belong to those who cannot tolerate those of others. As soon as they cannot argue rationally, they start labeling people: IRI agent, leftist, (the non-existent) Islamic Marxist, "lumpan," etc."

-I find this to be so true.

well-said anonymous8

why the selective use of free speech?
the fact that many anti-Arab,anti-Islam comments from Zion, Fred,Tina Ehrami and Amani are published openly here.

Whether Iran will be under the IRI or not is a decision that the MAJORITY of Iranians should make,not a bunch of self-proclaimed champion of human rights to decide.The recent poll showed 65% of Iranians want their country to stay the same or be more conservative. Do the voices of these people matter at all? Or will you guys quote the meme - HITLER CAME TO POWER THROUGH DEMOCRACY to ridicule this poll?

I am not a supporter of IR or the democracy movements in and out of Iran - both are equally evil. The latter even received $75 million dollar from a foreign government.

Strong points

I would rather read Mammad's logical argument than some hasty mud-slinging, angery, propaganda fashion labelling and claims. 

Chaos in the ME

I guess I'm getting old.  I always wanted Iranians to have a democracy and the freedoms that we have in the West.  Lately, I look at the Taleban: the tribal groups in Pakistan, Afghanistan and parts of Iran; and the smuggling/drug runners/criminals and wonder if a dictator isn't the way to go. Iranians and others in that part of the world need stability in order to survive.  Let's face it, Democracy is organized chaos and it seems impossible to organize even the most modern leaning ME nations like Iraq.

 Somehow, over the centuries, the Westerners have agreed to complain, write about, and vote out leaders that we don't like/agree with.  I, for one, look forward to the next election when a leader I don't like wins.  It's the escape concept of the next election that keeps many of us going.  The problem in the ME is when one group comes to power they kill off the opposition.  They dont want to leave power because they know they and their families will be killed.  That's a powerful incentive to stay in power by any means.

I like laws.  They prevent your neighbor from crossing the line.  When the laws come from 1400 year old sources, I do get nervous.

Revolutions are messy things.  Americans were lucky in that the leaders of that Revolution were educated men, who attempted to draw on the present and the past for the law.  In that prcess, they provided a frame for the future which allowed us to adapt.  The US is evolving and that is good.  The problem with Iran, Pakistan, and Afghanistan is that so many want to use force to return to the past.  I just don't think that can be successful.  You can't control thoughts....unless you live in North Korea.

IRI, the criminal against humanity and freedom

If IRI was put on trial in any fair and just court, what would be the outcome? Don’t need to hypothesize too much, the verdict has been delivered so many times, year after year by every human rights watchdog, EU, UN, US, Canada and the rest for violating human rights and freedom repeatedly for the past 30 years, oppressing, murdering, rapping Iranian people. If you live in Iran you don’t need these condemnations by foreign human rights organizations, you experience and see it with your own eyes, you live it everyday, unless if you are part of the religious mafia and are feeding on your own people’s misery. IRI is a criminal body and all its mafia members, in or out of Iran, are criminals also. A criminal does not have the right to advocate and promote its criminal acts and message of hate after conviction. If this site respects democracy and human rights, it should not allow for these criminals to freely operate here and advocate for their criminal activities. Freedom and democracy is an instrument of protecting the interests and rights of people, not to allow criminals to do whatever they want and continue with their criminal activity. If democracy to protect the criminals and their way then it beats its very own purpose. Don’t confuse democracy and human rights with lawlessness and chaos, a perfect environment for criminals to operate and advance their purpose without any accountability or restrain. If racially motivated mischief is considered criminal and prohibited by law in most democratic governments and are prosecuted and punished in fullest extent then IRI support and lobby for it are also a criminal act since it’s crime against the entire humanity and not just a particular race or ethnicity. STOP these criminals from spreading their hate and poison, stop them from advocating and promoting torture, murder, oppression, violation of basic human rights and freedom. You know who they are, just look at the comments right here. Stop being so naïve and gullible, these criminals are experts on how to fully take advantage of situations like this. Support democracy, support freedom, support human rights by first stopping the criminals and then move to the rest of the list of things to honor and do.

por rooyi va bi sharmi

shah-he-bozorg: Rashidian did not suggest killing all religious people. His target is the IRI and its supporters. You are putting these words in his mouth in order to deceive the readers.

Anonymous8: You defined a dictator as: "the guy who decides who is "abusing" democracy." Then you suggested that the author is a dictator and his idea of democracy is self-serving."

The author is not abusing democracy in Iran. It is the IRI which is abusing democracy in Iran. The IRI does not even allow its own "khodis", the reformists, to participate. It is amuzing that you are mute toward the killer of your own poeple and instead focus your attention on a writer.

Liberal Agnostic: Your name does not fool anyone, neither your posing as a "liberal agnostic". A liberal agnostic's worst enemy would be a regime like the IRI. You wrote about the author setting boundaries for freedom of expression while the IRI regime has done even worst by eliminating freedom of expression in its entirety.

If you are so much concerned about freedom of speech, then I would suggest you allow the author to express his opinion, or as you yourself said it, "do you not have enough faith in your own or the members of this site's intellectual ability to challenge" the author's assertion?

Niki: You wrote, "You know who else misuses this site? Those shameless people who make instrumental use of human rights for their own political ends."

Hmm... This is a new one. But a I admit it is a good one. I bet you will hear a similar line of reasoning by a lot of people soon. However Niki, it seems that it is you who is shamelessly muzzling any individual who rises to the cause of human rights in his country by accusing him of "misusing" the human rights.

Mishdool: The majority of Iranians were not even born until after the revolution, so they couldn't have possibly participated in overthrowing monarchy. And the majority of those who did are regretting it today. Please, this "majority" thing is old and retired.

Xerxers: You are the only one who has the guts not to hide behind any pretense.

Niloofar: Iranians do deserve a democracy that the IRI is not allowing them to have. Do not compare Iran with the worst, such as Saddam and Mobarak. We deserve and have the potential for a democracy and we deserve to be compared with better than what you suggest.

Maybokhor: You wrote, "What you are actually trying to achieve here is shutting people up who are against the West's warmongering attitude towards Iran"

It is quite the contrary. What you are trying to achieve is to shut people up who are against the IRI by pulling the "warmonger" card out of your sleeve. This is exactly why the IRI continues to maintain a state of tension with the US in order to shut people up. Opposing the IRI is not the same than being a warmonger. That's vezarate etele'aat propaganda that is getting old already.

Give IRI some credit

If we are to believe Mr. JR, then we may have to conclude one of the two things:

1. The IRI is so smart that has fooled all these people in at least categories 2 and 3. They are somehow seduced by the IRI, even though things are so bad in Iran.

2. The IRI, despite all of its crimes, can still buy off some people who live in the West, most of whom probably have a comfortable quiet life, and just check this site for curiosity, etc.

In either case, the IRI must be given some credit that can pull this miracle off.

In my opinion, that is not true. In fact, I believe that the IRI does not give a hoot to what people say in this site. If the IRI cared enough about people's opinion - people who live OUTSIDE Iran - so much so that it would try to buy off some people to spread propaganda for it, then it would not be as bad as what it is today.

The fact of the matter is, the IRI does not even give a hoot to what people think INSIDE Iran, let alone outside. Just look at what they do. Easily label the democrats, human rights advocates, etc., as agents of the U.S. (the mirror image of what the opposition does outside Iran); vet the candidates for elections and disqualify anyone whom they do not like without bothering to even give a superficial justification for what they do, etc. So, such a regime actually cares about what you and I say on this site?

Therefore, although Mr. JR has received pattings on his back from the usual crowd, his analysis, in my opinion, is wrong, because

(a) his premise for the article is wrong, and

(b) he does not have any category for those of us who are against the IRI, against the monarchy, and against the terrible mess that Bush has created in the Middle East. In other words, it seems to me that, in Mr. JR view, the only legitimate commentator on this site is someone who sees everything in black and white; all of his/her numbers are 1 (the supporting crowd) or 0 (the opposing crowd); and are either with JR or against him, with nothing in between.

On the other hand, in this site and column

(i) If someone expresses an opinion against military attacks on Iran, he/she is attacked savagely (just as Mr. JR himself did, but in a milder way).

(ii) If someone says that, look, the true referee about Iran's nuclear program is neither Bush nor Ahmadinejad, but the International Atomic Energy Agency, and the Agency has certified absolutely poisitively that, (a) Iran has not violated the NPT; (b) as of now there is no evidence of weaponization in Iran, and (c) building the Natanz facility in secret was not illegal (although not a confidence builder), he/she is immediately attacked as an IRI agent.

(iii) If anybody points out that sanctions usually hurt ordinary people, but do not bring down a regime, he/she is criticized from all sides.

(iv) If someone says that establishment of a democratic political system in Iran is an internal affair for Iranians living in Iran, he/she is attacked again by many people.

Now if you ask the same attackers what their solution is for the present terrible situation, they either fall silent (which, most of the time, it implies that they are embarrassed to say that they support military attacks and/or tough sanctions), or give you mumbo-jumbo which is usually not comprehensible. 

(v) If someone says that human rights are universal values and, therefore, just as we should protest loudly violation of human rights in Iran, we should also protest violation of Palestinians' rights,  Iraqis' rights, or Afghans' rights, he/she is accused of being anti-semite and/or anti-American.

In the opinion of this crowd, because we live in the West, we should just support whatever the West does. Now, tens of millions of, for example, Americans are against what Bush and the company do, but those of us who criticize his policies do not, in the opinion of this crowd, have such rights. We should just be grateful that we are allowed to live here - as opposed to being thrown in Guantanamo Bay, or be sent to a secret prison somewhere under the program of "extraordinary rendition" - even though many of us probably make much more contributions to the West or the US than most of the all-American people, the blue, the blonde, the Anglo-Saxon type of people.

Same thing with Israel. If you want to avoid the label of anti-semite, just shut up. Live in peace, but in graveyard peace, where everyone has fallen silent. Otherwise, you are an anti-semite. How dare you think that Israel can do wrong? This is a country that was created because, (a) Holocaust happened, and (b) God promised it. You really think that such a nation can do wrong? If you do, you will go to hell, exactly the way the Ayatollahs in Iran tell their opponents.

(v) The same attackers constantly worry about the IRI lobby in the U.S. But have you ever heard them worrying about the Israeli lobby in the U.S., the same lobby that is behind all the talks about attacking Iran? And, Israel is not the only country that has lobbyists in the US. Most of the Arab regimes do. Trukey does. Greece does. Irish people do. Anti-Castro people do. 

But look: Lobbying is good, so long as the lobbyists are on your side!

(vii) This is another thing that I do not get about this article. If you count the number of people who agree with this article or oppose it, you will find that the majority is with those who agree with it. Yet, if I am to believe the article, the progressives on Mr. JR.'s side are in the minority.

(viii) Then, we have people who believe in conspiracy theory. They see a leftist, Marxist, (non-existent) Islamic Marxist, IRI agent, mullah lover, sell-out, ....... in anyone with whom they disagree. They never stick to the point.  They always talk with 100% certainty. "The vast majority of Iranians believe like I do." "Everybody knows that." " I go to Iran and talk to people (probably to the members of his/her family who naturally think the same way." "I read Iranian sites; therefore I know" .........

The fact is, the loudest voices on this site belong to those who cannot tolerate those of others. As soon as they cannot argue rationally, they start labeling people: IRI agent, leftist, (the non-existent) Islamic Marxist, "lumpan," etc.

So typical

What you are actually trying to achieve here is shutting people up who are against the West's warmongering attitude towards Iran.

From what I have seen in this site, there are very few people actually supporting the IRI, but a large majority raise their voice, when they see articles or opinions that promote, directly or indirectly, a war of aggression against Iran.

Despite your objections, many of us do not think that IRI should be removed at any cost, since as you yourself point out, we cannot and should not wish such a fate for Iranians inside, while we live the relative comfortable life of the West.

So let us allow the best arguments win. If you cannot sleep at nights because you feel yourself to be in a minority, try to strengthen the logic of your arguments instead of belittling that of others.

Re: Jamshid...the ABLAH of the time

The character behind this beautiful Parsi name says: "and ask why are they so offended by someone who is criticizing IRI supporters? The answer is obvious."

This article is NOT a critique. It is character assassination coupled with branding people to further political agenda.

...And you think JR is the Bertrand Russell of 21st century?

Democracy in Iran

Do I vote for conservative or conservative?

Moallemian: You don't get it

Yes, you speak as if it is up to you if you are an islamist supporter or not. You still don't get it!

You are guilty guilty guilty just because a decree has been issued by the righteous true "defenders" of Iran whose only "khedmat" for Iran in the past 30 years as been to attack and slander fellow Iranians and "expose" them as IRI agents.

You think such vague and frivolous accusations on this website and its commentators are about how you see yourself? You are sadly mistaken.

It has nothing to do with you. It's here to give some sad and pathetic people meaning in their lives... a way to make them feel like they still matter.

yes, yes! the islamsits have surely embraced democracy as a tool

of... EVIL!!!

Don't you see? These islamists are real clever.

They have realized that free expression and exchnage of ideas can be abused for their own EVIL islamists purposes!

We must now stop all the free expression to thwart their plan!!!

No more free expression, we can't afford to have the Islamists abuse it! Stop all the comments!!! If you can't censor other people, please, at least censor yourself. Don't give the forces of Islam the tools!

Re: Rashidian

You made many valid points in your excellent article exposing supporters of the illegitimate, criminal and corrupt IRI regime.

One need only read the comments attacking the author of this article, and ask why are they so offended by someone who is criticizing IRI supporters? The answer is obvious.

They attack the author in a uniform and methodical way by hiding under the pretense of being pro-democracy, pro-freedom of speech, respectful of others' opinion and so on. They do so while the regime they are intentionally or unintentionally defending has been crushing these values in Iran for 30 years. This is a testimony to their hyprocrisy.

Dear Jahanshah Rashidian, you cannot and must not see Iranian.com as a vehicle of change for Iran's dire situation, or as a tribunal for exposing the IRI. This site has made it clear that it will not take a political stand against the IRI regime, despite its reach among Iranians.

We have to look for a solution elsewhere where we could spend our limited energy and resources in a more productive way. If that place does not exist, perhaps we should create it.

The reason this Arab occupation regime got to go is not because

 It is a Dictatorship or corrupted or it forces hejab or it mass murders or ;;;;;;;;;;;etc .. some other regimes have done even worse ...This one MUST go because:

It,s a Foreign Jehadist Occupation Regime" aka "Regimeh Eshghalgareh arabi"

Dear Mr Rashidian:

Don,t worry about Iranian.com..there are enough Rostams here to fend off ali asgars .and I actualy would find it boring to have no ali asghars around to be enlightened by some folks wise comments ..There are some regime agents?,,Yes ..but Majority are not agents but Mullah whipped Dumb a$$ who need to get refamiliar with real Iran away from Mullahs fake panarabist culture..Remember the phrase "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" ..I actualy welcome the hezbollahis comments and articles how ever retarded they may sound for entertainment purposes.

Your main concerne should be 70 million Iranians inside Iran being brainwashed daily not Iranian.com .Here there are enough informed folks who can respond to propaganda but in Iran, it,s a one way preaching of fake foreign culture and lies. I for one expose them on their own sites when ever i get a chance with my comments(as mildly as possible so not to get censored).Thats where the real battle lies sites that most Iranis have access to .

Iranian.com infiltrated by paid agents of U.S. and Israel

These recurrent verbal attacks against "Islamists" by Mr. Rashidian and the Tel Aviv Twins, i.e. "Fred" and Mr. Kashani, are part of a campaign by U.S. and Israeli intelligence and their Iranian mouthpieces to try to undermine the morale of the Iranian people ahead of their planned military assault against Iran. The same gangs who supported Saddam's invasion of Iran in the 1980s have reinvented themselves as champions of democracy and self-styled anti-Islamists. Their mercenary efforts on behalf of Iran's foes will meet with equal success in 2008 as it met in 1988, when Iran repelled the invading Rajavist forces.

A rule of thumb to remember always: those who bark the loudest about "anti-semitism" are also the most virulently anti-Muslim and anti-"Goyim". In the vast majority of cases, charges of "anti-semitism" are a form of intellectual intimidation meant to silence an adversary, when one has no merits to one's arguments.

Parsi...

You are wrong! Iran has had the same level of democracy since 1905. The only difference between the democratic aspects of the shahanshahi system and IRI is that (1) You had to be committed to the monarchy before you could be a candidate before 1979; you have to be committed to islamic republic before you could be a candidate after 1979 -- note that the latter is the law, the former was not the law but exercised. (2) part of the parliament were assigned by the shah per law; all of the candidates are vetoed by expediency counsel. (3) IRI propaganda machine is far more sophisticated and therefore far more people participate in the elections now.

If you look at the cast of characters that are in the parliament today, they are the kind that are fundamentally incapable of thinking outside the box and are frozen in their islamic ideologies; an example is the free loan banking system that is placed to work (gharz-al-hasaneh) and these guys do not know that in a country with 20% inflation, a bank cannot lend money with no interest and pay no interest as well and still survive, as they follow the masterpiece of emam who said "economy is for donkeys"!

Simple act of voting does not make a country democracy or progressive. There are all sorts of "controlled" voting almost everywhere these days, from egypt to saudi arabia, and most of them are only a fashionable show.

It is also unfair to compare iran against algeria and like. But that is my personal view.

I like...

I like and agree with the comments made by Irandokht,  Pedram Moallemian, and Niloufar Parsi.

Sorry J. Rashidian, but your compartmentalization of Iranian people on this site so a little too near-sighted.  It's okay.  That's what this website is for, expressing your ideas and watching to see who agrees/disagrees with you.  Hopefully we can all walk away with a new perspective on this topic after reading all of the comments.

Confused argumentation

Shah-e Shahan, 

Could you please clarify which 'democracy' the Islamists are guilty of attacking? I was not aware that Islamists had undermined any pre-existing democracy in Iran. Last I heard, the Shah destroyed any pretence to democracy by setting up a one-party state shortly before he was finally removed.

Secular people (like myself) have to face the fact that the IRI has sustained the longest period of limited representative democracy in Iran's history - 30 years of regular, uniterrupted elections, however flawed they have been. It is certainly far from how it should be, and no one with any sense would deny that, but we are after all talking about a country with NO real prior experience of democracy to speak of. Quite the opposite: it has been one despot after another with a few brilliant exceptions to the rule.

Moreover, secularism's history so far has no particular claim over democracy at all. They are two different concepts. Secularism would be a facet of a deep democracy.

For sure, democracy is far stronger when it is secular, but being secular is not the same as being democratic. Mubarak 's Egypt is far less democratic than the IRI, whether we like it or not. Same with Saddam's Iraq, Algeria, Pakistan, Yemen etc.

And of course, there was the Shahan Shah! Many of them in fact. 

Lets please keep cool and respect each others' views and perceptions. That would be the first step toward democracy, if that is the real aim here. 

Peace!

Iran's PRESS TV another source of misuse,

If you visit the Press TV's site, very often you see they are criticizing other countries for not observing the freedom of speech.

And by the way when we say things about IRI supporters that does not mean we are wishing Iran get bombed or invaded by foreign countries. Iranians should get rid of this ghodeh cherki on their own.

Boy oh boy, JR, you really did it! There's gonna be a party

here tonight.   I think I'd better sit back for a while and prepare the sangria and watch the dancing and see where it goes.  Because otherwise I'll be writing a dissertation. I can hear the music getting louder even as I type. So for now all I'll say is  listen a LITTLE to IranDokht, JR, just a LITTLE. And remind you that you yourself were constantly and VICIOUSLY attacked last year about being a member of the MKO, and as you know it was I who intervened with both my moderation privileges and the constant challenging of thpse people to substantiate these baseless claims.

It is one thing to criticize, even vehemently so, a person's politcal ideology and also actions (or non-actions, such as that eerie disturbing silence we hear on human rights from people on this website whom I in other ways see as my closest political hamsafars). It is ANOTHER thing entirely to accuse someone of being some kind of infiltrator, a "secret agent"...a mozdoor :o)

And that's all I'll say for now except for one last thing: Would you care for a glass of sangria? 

Rosie

Mr. Rashidian, you nailed

Mr. Rashidian, you nailed it. Right on the money. Keep up the good work. We cannot let the tiny minority of Iranians who either support the regime, apologize for it or justify its actions, to hijack the Iranian voice anymore.

Fred, great feedback.

IT is apparent that you

IT is apparent that you wrote this article in hast.

But I agree in general with your characterization of these groups; unfortuately, nontheless; they are here to stay and do their job. They also reflect the mentality of a powerful groups within the Islamic Republic who are used to owning the power and the discourse.

Some of their comments are valuable sources of information and it show how detached from reality they are and perhaps how detached we are not knowing that this is their world as they see it whether we like or not.

However, I do agree that their latest global strategy is to minimize the sheer tragedy of what is happening and the ultimate cost that Iranians have to face by allowing this catastrophe to go on indefinitely.

Long live the Islamic Republic

The best system that Iran had ever had. You guys are just blind and understand only one thing:
Go Googoosh

P.S. Before we had MKO aligned with the IR crowd to kill the opposition, but now I see that they are aligning themselves with Zionazis.