WAR

Jamshid: I couldn't have

Jamshid: I couldn't have said it better myself. War on Iran is unacceptable. However, how do we stop the mullah's war on Iran and Iranians??

You seem not to have the capacity to understand the difference between "opposing the IRI' and "being a sellout". You methodically consider both groups as one and the same.

Unfortunately, most egocentric individuals suffer from this affliction. They cannot see anything outside of their paradigm of perception. It's a disease that infects some of the most educated leaders in the world;'perceptual blindness'. Even big, important, CEO's with expensive suits, and high-falluting ideals of what is supposed to happen in the world - have perceptual blindness. Which is exactly why the world would soon be in a global depression.

The information is all there -- but their mind has a reason not to see it??

CS Lewis wrote a sf story with the same ideas - the astronaut could not describe what he saw on an alien planet because it was simply too far outside his paradigm for any possible object.

Dear yek irani digar

Thanks for posting an opposing view. It is always fair to play devil’s advocate in an objective debate, but it will be sinister to become devil’s advocate. What I find dishonest in your post and spread of misinformation is the implied conclusion that the progresses you have pointed to are the direct result of IRI’s rule. I am not even arguing the validity of your statements with regard to the progresses you have eluded to.  But, to conclude that any progress should strictly be attributed to the ruling of IRI, is absolutely absurd and preposterous.

You can be happy with the crumbs and discards of looting of your national wealth by IRI. Be happy with $3 bus fare from Tehran to shiraz or $50 tuitions. But,

You should be ashamed if your religious belief should be a factor to access higher education.

You should be ashamed if any part of your nation (which is amongst the richest per capita in resources in the world) lives in poverty.

You should be ashamed to defend a government which publicly hangs children and tolerates stoning.

You should be ashamed to endorse a government that gives your mother and sister half the rights of your father and brother.

You should be ashamed to defend a government that denies historical facts.

The list can go on and on.   My friend, I am not accusing you of being an IRI agent. I am not even suggesting that you are a “bacheh akhoond”. In all likelihood you are one of those brainwashed believers with good heart but grossly misinformed. It is only when people like you begin to open their eyes to freedom and see what human rights mean, that we can have high hopes for extermination of a barbaric rule from within.  

Regards

In support of Jamshid's comments

Even though I agree with Mammad's anti-war stance and certainly do not wish to label him (or anyone else) as being in support of this or against that, IMHO, Jamshid is spot on when he says that it is perfectly legitimate for many Iranians are simply fed up with the misrule of the Islamic Republic to be able to express their views without accused of being pro-war or sell-outs or neo-con/zionist supporters etc etc etc.

Those are the kinds of the accusations that brain-washed Hezbollahi supporters of the regime in Tehran immediately throw at anyone who dare express their opposition at what is going on inside Iran. And I cannot believe that people on either side of this debate here are of that kind of mentality; at least I hope not. Yet, these are the kinds of accusations that seem to come up on a regular basis every time there is a debate on this issue.

I’ve said this many times before, but it is worth repeating. Iran’s problems can only be solved by the Iranian people. An external military will only make things worse in Iran. But first and foremost we must recognize that while the current US administration (and the government of Israel) certainly bear some responsibility for the present climate of confrontation, it is the actions and policies of the Islamic Republic and not least, the belligerent and threatening language of the Mr. Ahdmadinejad towards Israel, that have needlessly made Iran a target. And until the IRI changes its stance, or better yet, it is consigned to the dust bin of history, Iran will remain under threat.

Yek Irani Digar

Are you kidding me???? where did u get those informations?? In your lost mind??? In what part of Iran people support IRI? As far as I know Iranians in Iranian Kurdistan, Baluchistan, Khuzestan are all fighting the basiji and they have become a icon for other parts of Iran...Please who are you to speak on behalf of all Iranians. You are joke my friend..

Re: Mammad

You fail to understand the arguments of those who oppose the IRI. The majority of Iranians who oppose the IRI do not want war. However, the IRI works hard to project the idea that they are warmongers and therefore a bunch of sellout.

You have fallen into the hands of the IRI's propaganda machine and you keep repeating the same argument, that if you are against the IRI, then you must be a warmonger.

This is far from the truth. It is the equivalent and the same as saying that if you are against war, you must be pro-IRI, something that you yourself have complained about on numerous occasions.

However, you want to freely accuse others without getting the same treatment. 

You say that people are sitting in the comfort of their homes in the West and wanting those in Iran to take all of the risks. Couldn't the same be said about you? That you are sitting in the comfort of your home in the West too, and talking about reforms while Iranians living in Iran must carry the weight of that reform by risking imprisonment, torture and even execution.

We all know that the only true and popular argument that represents the view of the majority of Iranians is that we are both against military intervention, but still firmly against the IRI as well. 

Lastly, I resent your comments about Iranian Kurds. You wrote, "... typical of Kurdish warriors of the past who  made alliances with practically everybody under the sun, from the Shah, to IRI, to Israel, to the US..."

This is an insult to all those Kurds how had died fighting against the IRI as well as defending Iran from Saddam. Have you so easily forgotten Saddam gasing the Kurds and their Iranian allies in the Iran-Iraq war? Was that due to their lack of loyalty too?

You seem not to have the capacity to understand the difference between "opposing the IRI' and "being a sellout". You methodically consider both groups as one and the same.

To Weak Souls and Non-Believers

Those who think IRI does not have support are living in a fantasy world. They need to go to Iran and see for themselves. Deep inside, the majority of Iranians are happy with IRI. They have seen what IRI has done for them. These are just a few: (1) Iranians like their nearly free health care system with a physician very near by. (2) They enjoy their $50 per semester tuition at the some of the best public universities. (3) They see major highways built in their neighborhood regularly to make their lives easies. (4) They like the $3-bus-ticket to go from two major cities, Tehran to Isfahan for example. Or, they can even take their brand new cars (that everyone has one right now) to take their families on vacations if they choose. (5) They like all of these universities IRI has built. There are at least two universities within walking distance of every village in Iran. (6) They like their pension system that pays them retirement money, goods, free access to healthcare, etc. (7) Most importantly, business is booming in Iran. Talented individuals are cashing in huge. Young Iranian use the free education IRI has given them to establish major corporations. Now, is Iran a free country in and idea sense? No it is not. But IRI actions are justified. Iran is surrounded by loaded guns of the enemy from six different sides. Lies and misinformation are filling Iranian air 24 hours a day. With carelessness, the country may experience yet another turmoil. Worst yet, part of the nation may be lost; and please do not tell me that can’t happen. Iran has lost two-third of its territory in the past 200 years. Whether you like it or not, brave Iranians are changing Iran. If you are not part of that process, then you are the problem. You simple have to wake up and smell your own rotten odor.

zion, the lost jewish soul in the iranian cyberspace

PEACE NOT WAR IN MIDDLE EAST. That's what we beleive in. You can't distract us from what we believe. We will get organized, we'll write and talk about the human rights, we'll work for peace in middle east.

You are one of the hateful warmongers I am talking about. Always putting your nose where it does not belong like in my camel's a... What are you doing here? Why are you advocating violence against Iranian people? Are you lost or Are you an agent?

Or maybe You think you are on a mission to save "the chosen people" from their "enemies". I have news for you. Zionists are their own worst enemy. How? by their greed for other people's land and by enslaving another nation and by the commiting crimes against humanity. Go suck on that for a while. 

Mola

How was your camel?

peace not bombs in middle east

All you warmongers and lost souls blinded with hatred and greed. All you who claim to be Iranians on this website and are not. All you who repeat the propaganda dished out by neocons and Israeli propaganda machine wishing another war in the middle east. Listen to what we are saying.

PEACE NOT BOMBS IN MIDDLE EAST!

Anonymous500

I do not give a hoot to your labeling of me as anything. Consider me anything you want. Aan raa keh hesaab paak ast, az mohaasebeh cheh baak ast?

Regarding your "shouting," let me respond to those aspects of what you said that are more or less worth responding to, because a lot of it is not.

(1) You are right. But, how do you separate attacking the regime to overtherow it without bringing about destruction, if the attack is going to be through military means? That is the crucial question that people like you either ignore or do not even get. 

You, of course, may not care, so it may be pointless to ask this question. As that Persian proverb says, az kiseh khalifeh mibakhshi. I can vividly imagine you making a proclamatuion:

"Attack, invade, kill, destroy, occupy This is all against Khamenei. So,  great people of Iran, rest assured that the hell that is being created is only against him. To believe us, just look at Iraq. The hell there was also against Saddam and the Ba'ath Party. I live outside Iran, and be with you every step of the way; I grieve for you!!"

(2) No, they are not, I agree. But again, how do you achieve getting out of the "barzakh"? It is either through external military attacks, or by Iranians living in Iran. So, you make another proclamation:

 "People of Iran, rise up and overthrow the regime. We will support you, either by clapping and applauding from the comfort of our homes outside Iran, or by supporting military attacks by the US by telling them that you, great people of Iran, support it. Either way, I am safe, but support any decision you make. I'll grieve for the bloodshed, rest assured! I will not join you until I know who has won the struggle, if at all, but I support you!"

Blind street riots will not achieve the goal.  It will only lead to bloodshed. Of course, you do not care. You have already made your proclamation. But, even if your solution is "rising up," it needs a lot of preliminary work, implying patience, hard work. You, of course, are not patient!

 (3) Agree regarding no animosity between the peoples. But, US administrations? Come on. One must be deaf and  blind not to hear and see what has been happening in Iraq and Afghanistan, all in the name of "freedom." Bush also said that the US has no quarrel with Iraqi people. But, 1 million dead people later; Iraq partitioned between various faction, he wants Iraq to be a neo-colony of the US, nominally independent, but controlled by 58 military bases that he is demanding.. Just read about the US demands of Iraq. It is all over the internet and print media. The amazing thing is, both the US and IRI support the same Shi'ite factions! 

(4) and (5) Agree. What is the point? Just letting some steam out, having found no "walls shorter than me?!!" Those, like me, who support Palestinians, are exactly searching for that ellusive "justice and equity."

(6) Agree with the first two, but how do you know about the 3rd? Just your deep thinking while living outside Iran? The IRI will obviously not reform itself voluntarily. That is true. But, that is different from saying that it cannot be pushed to reform itself by social and political forces, and eventually changed completely. The Shah was also forced to hear "the revolutionary voices" of the people, but it was too late.

(7) Aaahaa: Dom-e khorous az laaye abaa aamad biroun. I see you again vividly making your proclamation, and this is the final one:

 "The great Iranian nation, use legitimate violence to overthrow this regime. I am with you 110% I support you, I applaud your bravery, and since the Sepah will kill a large number of you, I'll grieve for your dead also. I can do all of this at the same time, because while I am with you in my mind, I am physically outside Iran."

15% of the population supports the IRI. This 15% is armed to the teeth, and has no place to go. It will fight to death. So, using "legitimate" violence is not the solution. At least not until the very last step, like the Revolution days of 1979.

The conditions must be created that the 15% also recognizes that the corrupt and incompertent regime must go. Fortunately, with people like Ahmadinejad, it is not difficult to see those conditions coming fast.  

The rest of your numerical comments are your proclamation for the next US President. They are not worth commenting on, because they are out of your sense of grandiosity. 

Yes, dear, my hands have been forced. I am against war, invasion, occupation, destruction, disintegration of Iran. You want to call it support for the IRI, so be it. People like me do not give a hoot. 

Your hands have also been forced: You want regime change through war, military attacks, violence. You won't be part of any of it, of course, but, as much as you hate the mullahs, you act like one: Issuing FATWAS from the comfort of your home outside Iran for the people who are living in Iran. Of course, you feel their pain, but at this stage that is all you can do!!!

Mammad

Mamad, It's so typicall

that people like you judge others without any facts. I criticized your political views based on what you write as I don't know you. However your new comment also suggests your hatred towards other Iranian groups which is quite sad.
Israel-USA-Kurdish alliance is an absolute nonsense which is only projected by the Mullahs. As for Shah, we all supported him because of the empty promises he made. So did IRI. They fooled everyone by promising so many things and again we were all let down and lost many lives. So please don't exclude any groups. Majority of Iranians participated in this. I believe that only Iranians can overthrow the regime and the only way is with force.

Kurdish Warrior

I do not know why you attribute things to me that did not originate with  me. I talked about what I believe to be the ridiculous analogy between the Nazi regime of 1938 (which the neocons, the Likud Party, and their Iranian supporters make) and the IRI. The only reason I did that was because someone else in this column had made that claim. Go down on this column to find it, you warrior. Be a literary warrior once.

I did suggest to those who consider NIAC a lobbyist of the IRI to consider it as a lobbyist counterweight to AIPAC. So, since you are good in asking questions, let me ask you a question: What do you consider AIPAC to be? Go to their site. Read various analysis. Research it yourself. See which organization is behind all the Resolutions and provocation against Iran.

If you want to exclude the possibility of change from within, before I have said even one word, then, yes, war is the only "solution." In that case, I suppose, typical of Kurdish warriors of the past who  made alliances with practically everybody under the sun, from the Shah, to IRI, to Israel, to the US, this time you will join the ranks.

Mammad

Mola Nassredin did you know ...

that one day Mola was sitting among a few friends who were talking about various things. Mola slowly fell asleep and while dosing off, he suddenly farted and which made him wake up. He feigned ignorance at what had happened and said: "I was just having a bad dream and saw my late father in that dream." One of the people sitting nearby said "Yes, we know, we heard the voice of your late father who was trying to say something to you too."

We too have heard your father's voice. Are you repeating what he said to you?

To Mamad and Other IRI Supporters

To Mamad and Other IRI Supporters:

Since you guys and galls seem to have got into the habbit of writing manifestos to "XYZ and Others who are all Zionist, Warmongers," Let me give you few good lessons in logic. I wont reciprocate your almost comical style of such grandiose writing:

Your logic and those of the IRI lobbyists is that there is an "external threat" to Iran and therefore our people must unite behind this regime. Whoever does not is Zio-Shamiyo, Warmonger, type of crap.

The problem with this logic is as follows:

1) There is no external threat to Iran, but to the regime of Ali Khamenehi, a regime that is highly niversally despised by the majority of the Iranian People based on the very recent assessment of the IRI.

2) The people of Iran are not condemned between war or support for the IRI because there is an "external threat" to this regime that you guys and galls try to equate with Iran. This is forced logic but is of a cauculated nature designed to intimidate anti-IRI forces in Iran and in diaspora.

3) The people of Iran have no animosity towards the USA and the American people, neither any US President has ever expressed any such anti-people sentiment. However, a high percentage of people in Iran despise the IRI,so does a large percentage of the American people. The idea that all Iranians will unite behind this regime because of an "external threat" wont work because IRI has proven to be the main enemy of Iran, not the USA.

4) The people of Iran have no animosity towrds democracy, rule of law, human rights and religious tolerance. It is the IRI that is intolerant, reactonary and incapable of living with the rest of the civilized world. The same applies to this regime's supporters and lobbysist.

5) Having have experienced three decadeof Hell under IRI, it is very likely that a high percentage of Iranians don't give a damn about Isreal-Palestine issue thus may not care or entrtain animosity towards either of the two, but it is plausible that they would welcome the settlement of the problem on the basis of justice and equity. It is the IRI and its supporters who have shown animalistic animosity towards Isreal. It can be due to their anti-Semite mind set, it can also be due to the fact that they don't want a peaceful settlement between the two parties.

6) The people of Iran do not want war, a large majority do not want the IRI, and don't seem to believe that IRI is reformable despite this regime's supporters' and its lobbyists' mantra to that effect. It is the IRI that is a threat to Iran, to the Iranian people, and to the civilized world. The IRI supporters and lobbyists are part of this threat.

7) The people of Iran can opt for a radical soultion: Overhtrowing this regime through Resistance to this regime. This requires legitimate violence against regime's armed forces, be it the Sepah (a terrorist entity that has been recognzied as such), the Basij (another terrorist entity), the Hezbollah (a third terrorist entity).

8) The people of Iran can also opt for a non-violent campaign of Civl Disobidience to this regime.

In both cases, it is the IRI supporters and lobbyists who don't want this eventaulity because they have vested interests in the continuation of this regime regardless of its enormous three decade of cost ot our people and our glorious culture.

8) The next American President, be it Baraka Hussein Obama or John McCaine, can help Iranian People by putting this regime on notice that America will not stand-by idle as the IRI continues acting as the God Father of Intenrational Terroism in the region to continue training, financing, and supporting Terrorist Groups, be it in Iraq, Afghainstan, Lebanon, or Palestine or elsewehre in the world.

9) The next USA President should take action against IRI-sponsored terrorism, be it against our people or others in the region.

10) The next USA President should recognize and help the creation of a multifaceted colaition of anti-IRI Iranian forces, and should hep them to unite and create Iran's Democratic Government in Exile. It is the IRI supporters and lobbysist that don't want this to take shape. The reason has already been given above.

11) The next USA Presidnet should order the removal of the PMOI from the USA State Dept's list of International Terrorist Groups. the PMOI is the most organized part of this potential coalition force that can help the formation of the Exiled Gov. Those who have denounced ALL Iranian exiled forces on this BB have shown remarkable animosity towards the PMOI and any idea of calition-building that aims to topple the IRI.

The hull mark of the IRI lobbysist is that they denegrate ALL Iranian oppositional force, be it Reza Pahlavi, Massoud Rajavi, Jebbhe Melli, and anything and anyone in between that is anti-IRI.

12) The next USA President should use his good offices for helping Iran's Exiled Gov to take the IRI to International Court of Justice for its having committed various crimes against humanity.

In short, Mamad Agha, the choice is not between War, or support for the IRI; there are many other alternatives that the Iranian Resistance Forces, the USA, and her allies in EU can take, including the hundreds of thosuands of honorable and patriotic Iranian-Americans that despise the IRI in this country.

Your problem is that every which way that you turn, Mamad Agha, you embrace this regime in Iran because inadvertently or by design you support it. You have created a Torjan Horse in the name of External Threat to IRAN to give legitimacy to your support for this regime. The same is for those lobbiysts of the IRI in-exile who are now beating their chests as if this "Rowzeh-e Hazrat-e Abbas in Diyar-e Farang" under the tile of "Iran is about to disintegrate because the IRI is facing an external threat". I think your hand is forced. You guys and galls are unmasked. Period.

I hear the same old over and over....

Every time there is discussion about how to deal with mullahs we hear the same old nonsense (Zionist, Nazi propaganda machine) from the IRI apologists. I'm against USA military intervention but at least I have another solution. I have a question for those who keep bashing other Iranians and accusing them of being traitor just because they speak loud against IRI...What is your solution to stop the Mullah tyranny???? Do you guys really have any solution to this????My question goes out to people like Mammad or Mola Nasredin?? Please enlighten me with your suggestions to deal with Mullah??and Please don't come with some kind of talk about reform from within..As long the pillar of this government is based on Shissm and theocracy there is no way we will have any changes within our society.

Its up to Iran

Mine are the signers of the bill, but in the end
just like North Korea, its how Iranians play their cards.
The congress or Obama (who is becoming more and more righty daily and he will not get my vote), will not matter, The Iranians, just like Iraqis and Vietnamese will
have to defend themselves.

free thinker and others who indicate they love Iran. Not.

This is the premise: Call your congressman/woman and ask them  to vote "NO" on H.Con.Res. 362 because it may start a war with Iran. Now do you agree to call or not? As simple as that. You have a variety of choices. But don't tell me you care about Iranian people. You and your co-thinkers have "lost the praying hole" or pretend to worry about peace or iranians.

Your logic is not based on free thought but on Israeli propaganda machine. Israel is the closest social and political system to Nazi Germany in the world. It's a simple fact. Lets clear this for you: Israel sucks...so don't get her into this discussion. 

To Salar (my APOLOGY to BK,)

This comment was addressed to Salar but by mistake I named BK.

Salar, what do you mean by “little help from outside”?
If that little help is as little as harmless, it’s ineffective. But if it is about 5000 hit points (as Americans are planed for, plus the other consequences of such massive bombing) then there would be no Iran being able “to move forward to other issues” as you say. Watch Iraq.
You talk about Afghanistan. That “little help from outside” only created The Opium Republic of Afghanistan, and look; Taliban is back!
Other than that, we are not in competition to see who suffered more during last 30 years. This kind of thinking is in our Iranian heritage of martyrdom and grief and we should get rid of it. I will not sit here and talk about my suffering. COMFORTABLE YOU SAID?

Mammad Agha

If what you do is thinking then we should redefine "thinking". And what important point are you talking about that I have missed? Are you suggesting the white-washing of the IRI's dark records is an "important point", or calling people names such as Zionist or Nazi or Warmonger, etc, then again I must ask the linguists among us to redfine the terms "important and point".

There are millions of people, even the states, such as the IRI's buddy Syria, who hate the Jews to the core BUT, and listen carefully, none of them except for the Nazi's and the IRI have called for the Jewish state/people to be wiped off the map.

Now, you'd better think before talk brother.

Salar

As I said at the end of  my response to you, label me anything you want. I do not give a hoot. Labeling me does not deter me from expressing my opinion. Even a naive, inexperienced person knows that such senseless labeling by people like you comes with the territory.

Summary:

You: A man who wants war to "liberate" Iran. You accuse me of not knowing what is going on in Iran. Well, from the comfort of your home outside Iran, it is easy for you to issue FATWA for war, and you are the informed one!!

Me: Against war, sanctions, intervention, and destruction. I would rather see democracy develop at snail speed over a long period of time by Iranians, than see my native country be attacked, destroyed, and controlled, all in the name of  "liberation!"

End of the debate.  

Mammad

Free Thinker: Think a bit

Go to southern part of the US to see how many people hate or dislike Jews. Does that mean that that region must be invaded too?

Go to Western Europe and talk to people. Poll after poll after poll indicate that Israel is disliked or even hated by a significant portion of the population. Does that mean that those regions should also be invaded?

Arguing in the meaningless way that you do is senseless. I do not even know why you waste your time like this. Tell me which of the important points that I brought up you dispute, and then we have a debate. Otherwise, there is no reason to waste our times. 

Mammad

Bijan A M

You have asked two important and completely legitimate questions. Unlike many (see Salar's comment!), you always write respectfully and without labeling, accusations, etc. Therefore, it is a pleasure to debate issues with you. Here are my answers to your questions.

1. I believe that it is Iran's right to enrich uranium on its soil. We can debate whether it is economical or not (in my view, unless we tie it to national security, it is not). However, I believe that Iran must freeze enrichment activities for a fixed, agreed upon period of time, in order for its program to be fully inspected. The period should not be long or indefinite, but fixed, and finite.

For that to happen, I have suggested (in several articles in print and on the internet) that Iran's dossier should be returned to IAEA from the UN Security Council. The reasons for this are twofold:

(a) In a long article last October (it was 45 pages!), I argued, based on reading of legal documents and what legal scholars have said, that, (i) sending Iran's dossier to UNSC was illegal, and (2) what UNSC has done is also illegal. If you wish in the next post I'll summarize the reasoning.

(b) From a practical point of view, if Iran freezes its enrichment while its dossier is in UNSC and under order by UNSC, then the resumption of the enrichment activity will also need UNSC authorization which, however, will never come, because US, Britain, and France will veto it. Therefore, freezing under the current condition is tantamount to giving up Iran's right to enrichment FOREVER. This is not acceptable, in my view.

So, Freeze, but under the right conditions.

2. In my view, no US administration, regardless of how progressive it might be, would like to see a strategically important nation like Iran to be totally independent, politically. Therefore, every US administration has tried to tie Iran to itself. This has been true since the 1950s.

Now, that does not mean that every US administration would go to war in order to pull Iran to within its sphere of influence. No, each administration, Democrat or Republican, will choose a different strategy. Bush, if he could, will select war. His track record speaks for itself. His father, on the other hand, did not want that.

I absolutely reject the suggestion that any effort to pursuade the IRI to soften its stance will fail. Even within the right-wing group that rules Iran there are significant factions that want to avoid war with the US. They actually want to reach accomodation with the US.

One problem with the Iranian opposition in exile is that, if one says anything which is similar to what the IRI says, he/she is immediately accused of being a supporter or agent. In fact, as I said at the end of that long article about legality of sending Iran's dossier to the UNSC, if it were not for the senseless rhetoric of Ahmadinejad against Israel, Iran's position with respect to its rights withing the NPT would be extremely strong. The Europeans did not dare to support sending Iran's dossier to the UNSC, because they knew Iran was largely correct and right. But, Iran's mad man gave them the perfect excuse. 

There is only a small faction among radical commanders of Sepah who would not mind a limited exchange with the US, because they correctly think that such a limited exchange will consolidate their power. Therefore, if the US is smart enough, this can be done. Aside from the fact that, as a naturalized citizen of the US, I believe that such an accomodation will be in the US national interest, I also believe that it will be in Iran's national interests too. Why?

(i) It will save Iran from possible destruction. Worse, what people like Salar do not recognize is that, a war may lead to disintegration of Iran. This is not 1979 when, due to the presence of the Soviet Union, it was in the US interest to support Iran's territorial integrity.

(ii) As I have said many times, so long as there is an external threat to Iran's national security, the radical faction will use it to repress and suppress the democracy movement within Iran. If it were not for the Iran/Iraq war, the radicals could not have executed thousands of political prisoners, at least not so easily. If it were not for Bush's threats, Iran's political landscape could be different, could be at least not at terrible as it is today. 

This is true about any nation. Even in the US, an advanced democracy, Bush used the 9/11 to clamp down on civil liberties. People were terrified to oppose Iraq's invasion, because they were afraid to be labeled unpatriotic.

So, no, negotiations can lead to softening of stance by the IRI which, in my view, will be beneficial to Iran and Iranians.

Mammad

I agree with salar....

Salar is right on.....the mullahs will not go peacefully- that is EXACTLY how they are different from the shah....
The reason we're in this mess in the first place is that the shah didn't unleash the army on these murderers and thugs....traitors like GHAREBAGHI and FARDOOST told other heads of the army to stand down- anyone with a grain of bravery was murdered on the spot- GEN. BADREI, RAHIMI, SHAFIQ, etc.
the mullahs however, are so scared and desperate to hold on to power that they have created dozens of spy agencies- each spy has his own spy and so on! they have created the pasdars and basijis to protect their own ass- they know if they take one step back, the people of iran will run em into the sea!
war is not the best option, but it is time to CUT THE HEAD OF THE MONSTER WHICH IS AKHOONDISM!

Talking is easy...

I love how all these armchair activists are trying to discredit people like Mr. Parsi. You are living in your deluded fantasy utopia, outside Iran, away from hardship, free from the very thought of invaders occupying your home, not caring about the consequences war, or all the deaths and destruction that would result from such insanity.

You people have lost all humanity. You people are what is wrong with the world today.

The fact that matters is, AIPAC, PNAC and many of these lobby groups in Washington would want nothing more than to go to war with Iran. NIAC, regardless of their ideology is trying to prevent something like that from happening. I could care less if Mr. Parsi is an IR agent, so long as they do the lobbying that needs to be done in order to prevent this insanity of a plan from coming into effect.

Now you can attack NIAC all you want, but honestly ask yourselves this, do I want Iran attacked? If the answer is yes, then I'm afraid you are no better than the extremists/terrorists you claim to hate. No matter how inhumane the treatment of IR of its citizens are, at the end of the day you cant claim to be any different from them.

Mamad you forgot to add:

among the differences between the Nazis and Iran's Islamists:

Nazis were generally blond and blue-eyed (or so they say) whereas Islamists are dark and black-eyed
Nazis manufactured Volks Vagen whereas Islamists do Iran-khodro
Nazis saluted each other in Roman style of Hail Ceasar, whereas Iranians put their hand on their chest and bow.
Nazis sang Dutchland uber Alles whereas Islamists sing: Payamat Ay Imam Istiqlal. Azadi-naqs-i Jan-i Mast
etc etc etc. ...
The list of differences is endless. and I don't know why you only confined yourself to Heisenberg's Quantom Mechanics!!

But curiously my brother there is one overriding similarity between the two regimes:

NAZIS AND ISLAMISTS HATE THE JEWS (NO, NOT ONLY THE ZIONISTS BUT THE JEWS IN TOTAL) INTENSELY.

To Anonymous passer by

I think you are mixing me up with someone else. I never said anything about "little help from outside"!!

And while I'm posting this, let me say I agree with those who are saying war is not the answer and will only make things worse. If a full scale war against Iran breaks out not only will it lead to countless deaths of innocent people and massive destruction in the country, but it may also result in the disintegration of parts of the country.

Additionally, if Iran is attacked, especially under a limited aerial strike scenario, it will hand the Islamic Republic the perfect pretext to intensity the climate of repression in Iran since it will accuse anyone protesting against its rule as siding with the external enemy during a time of conflict. I'd even say that the IRI will welcome a limited attack.

War and sanctions will only intensify the misery and the suffering the general population in Iran are already experiencing under the IRI. If any change is to happen in Iran, it can and must only happen by the people there. Question is how much more people are prepared to put up with before they say enough is enough.

The problem is the IRI has been so efficient and ruthless in mercilessly decimating all opposition, people have no proper base and platform around which they can unite to start the process of change inside Iran. Nevertheless, it is up to people to bring about change, if they that is want really want

Mammad

You are so right, so convincing and so meticulous in arguing against war and how corrupt and evil US and Israel are. How bad US has failed in Iraq and Afghanestan. However, at the end you fall short of making your point with regard to how to avert the war. The debate is not if US and/or Israel have the moral authority to start a war or naval blockade. The debate is not whether US cares about regime change in Iran or the human rights, etc… these are all legitimate debates that deserve their own space and independent of Mr Trita Parsi’s post.

The debate as I understand it is over the effectiveness of anti-war advocacy groups (and NIAC in its current capacity to lobby against naval blockade) given the existing facts and realities.

Would it be wrong to conclude from your posts that you support IRI’s stance with regard to enrichment on Iranian soil? (I am not saying that any statement in your post suggests that you are pro-IRI, just their position with regard to the nuclear issue).  As such, are you then suggesting that all the efforts should focus on lobbying US congress to stop hostility?

OR,

Are you suggesting that US will start the war one way or the other just because they like to go to war, look at Iraq and Afghanestan. Therefore any effort to persuade IRI to soften its position is pointless and would have no impact on the outcome.  If the points of your posts are as I have stated above, then, under the existing realities, I respectfully disagree and suggest that peace activists should focus on all parties involved for  their struggle is to have  any chance of producing meaningful results.I reserve my comments about your theory of gradual transformation from theocracy to democracy for a different post, as it does not belong to this thread.  Sincere regards,Bijan

To Salar

We are already OCCUPIED, we are already at WAR. I much like millions of other freedom loving Iranians have been at war with this barbaric regime as long as we can remember...

Nonsense! "War" and "Occupation" have their specific definitions. We can NOT use these terms METAPHORICALLY and symbolically and draw whatever practical conclusion we want from them!! A war is when a FOREIGN state (and by "foreign" I really mean foreign and not whatever other symbolic meaning you extract from it) violates another country's territorial integrity by its military forces. And an occupation is when a country's territory is country is occupied by a foreign country's military forces and its institutions are being controlled by it.

Poverty, human right violations, corruption in the system, increasing rate of prostitution and drug addiction....etc DO NOT put a nation is a state of war and occupations and it DOES NOT call for foreign intervention.

Let's be precise in the definition of the terms we use and take positions rationally. In these critical times, we can not afford to spread nonsense and take dangerous decisions based on metaphors and symbols!!

Mammad You sound like Syyaid Mammad Khatami and his Clan to me

Ohh yeah, we been there, heard and done that before. “change must come from within, just wait for reforms to work, slow improvements are the key blah blah blah“, while they are living it up asking for more patience and subordination from people who are dying from poverty, drugs, vice and lack of even the tiniest basic human freedom and dignity and students, writers, women, teachers, workers and all dissidents are being sliced and diced by their savage killers. Now Mammad agha and similar friends are giving the same prescription from the comfort of their lives in the west, no sense of urgency on their part, they are cool, life is good there, we have time.

We are already OCCUPIED, we are already at WAR. I much like millions of other freedom loving Iranians have been at war with this barbaric regime as long as we can remember. Go ask those who had their tongues slashed by the ettelaties, go ask the girl and boy who is sold as sex slave right across the Persian gulf to an arab master. Go and ask all those millions Iranians already living under absolute poverty diving into dumpsters for a scrap of food everyday. Go and ask those in BAM. How long should we wait mammad, 100, 200, 1000 years? By then the whole humanity might be gone much less iran and Iranians. The war with mullah regime is inevitable, they will not budge since they have no where to flee to and know well people will hunt them down like animals and none will survive the wrath of the people should the tide turns. Either many of our people must die removing this regime or someone else has to do it, I’d take the latter any day. Knowing the mullah regime and how they make deals and stand down to real threat to their existence if they see things are getting serious and their very existence is in danger they will gulp down the poison much like their great imam and "jang jang ta piroozi" will be demonstrated fully again by poison swallowing action by rahbar. I just hope this time around Americans are serious enough and go all the way doing that 5000 points drops regradless of what regime decides. Yes I say war to mullah regime, that is the only way and hope Iranian people have, notwithstanding the 1000 years waiting solution.

Salar

I am sure you are a true Salar, but what you are advocating is not.

The student protests of 18 Tir 1378 started on a Thursday night. I was at Tehran University the following Saturday morning, and I participated in every demonstration. I was also in Tehran 3 years later, though did not participate in any demonstration. So, yes, I was there, and yes, I am fully aware of the situation.

What you are suggesting is war and aggression against my beloved Iran, and I'll rather die than to agree with this, especially as a result of attacks by one or two countries that are at the root of most, if not all, of the Middle East problems. In addition:

1. Where is Afghanistant today? Taliban are resurgent and control most of southern Afghanistan. Karzai has been renamed the MAYOR OF KABUL, because his government can barely control that city, and only that city. Opium production is at its highest level ever, supplying more than 90% of all of the world's heroin. Unemployment is 60%. Where is Northern Alliance, anyway?

Where is Iraq? A nation that has been effectively partitioned, only nominally independent, completely destroyed. The US wants more. It wants to control Iraq for the next 50 years.

Anybody who thinks that the US will attack and overthrow the IRI (it could not, but suppose it could), and then leave is either naive, or is lieing, or lives in another universe. Why would the US leave a country like Iran with a strateghic position, a dynamic population, and much natural resources? It defies logic AND HISTORY to think that, yeah, they will just do this for the heck of it!

2. There is no way that the US can overthrow the IRI by bombing. Iran is not Afghanistan or Iraq. The bombing and attacks will only destroy the country, but not the IRI. It will strengthen the IRI, at least in the short term, for 5-10 years.

3. Who says that Iranians cannot overthrow the IRI, or at least force it to understake deep changes? This is not giving the great Iranian people due credit.

4. Except for my wife and two children, I have no relatives in the US. Each and every one of them lives in Iran, including my sisters, brother, and their families. The same is true about my wife. I go to Iran regularly. So, I am completely aware of the hardship.

But, war is not the answer. It may take sometime, but if Iranian people are patient (and they are), and if they do not demand drastic changes overnight (which they should not, because it will lead to civil war and bloodshed), they will be able to change the system. We have waited for a democratic government fopr at least 100 years; we can wait a few more years.

Most importantly, this is an issue for Iranians only. No country has the right to intervene in the internal affairs of another sovereign nation. I find it amazing that those who are proud of Kourosh and what he did (we should all be); those who hate Arabs because they invaded Iran (in reality they hate Islam, because Moguls did far worse things), now have their begging hands towars the Western power, especially the same nations that overthrew the democratic government of Dr. Mohammad Mosaddegh, and ask for help.

Label me anything you want. I am against war, military attacks, and sanctions.

Mammad