You may be surprised at the answer; there are already over 205 cosponsors of H.Con.Res. 362. Is yours one?
This bill calls on the president to stop all shipments of refined petroleum products from reaching Iran. It also “demands” that the President impose “stringent inspection requirements on all persons, vehicles, ships, planes, trains and cargo entering or departing Iran.”
Analysts say that this would require a US naval blockade in the Strait of Hormuz, the critical chokepoint through which nearly a quarter of the world’s oil passes. Imposing such a blockade without United Nations authority (which the resolution does not call for) would be considered an act of war. Some congressional sources say the House could vote on the resolution as early as this week.
Critics of the bill claim that if the US Congress were to pass H.Con.Res. 362, it would send the signal to the Iranian people and the international community that the US is willing to engage in an aggressive and unwarranted act of war before direct diplomacy even begins. That interpretation is refuted, however, by strong interests in Washington who have pushed to promote the petroleum embargo as a voluntary hold on exports to Iran from a coalition of willing countries. Supporters claim that this proposal is actually an alternative to war and an effective approach to pressure Iran economically.
Sensing that the threat of war has once again increased -- especially in light of this month’s Israeli military exercises which simulated a strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities -- IAEA Director Mohamad El Baradei warned last week that he would resign if any country attacked Iran.
Economic analysts worry that the risk of military escalation in the Persian Gulf could drive oil prices above their already record highs, possibly approaching $200 per barrel. During this highly charged political time, members of Congress are prone to give in to calls for tough talk and escalation against Iran. That approach, however, has failed for nearly three decades and produces nothing more than higher gas prices and a constantly growing risk of war.
Your members of Congress need to hear your opinion about this. Tell your members of Congress not to support this war resolution.
Trita Parsi is is a co-founder and current President of the National Iranian American Council (niacouncil.org) in Washington, DC.
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needtohear: "STOP SUPPORT" is NOT "COMPLICITY"by Anonymous8 (not verified) on Thu Jul 03, 2008 02:11 PM PDT
what you and your brain-dead conspiracy theorist friends never understand is that American military and diplomatic support that artificially kept Shah in power was illegitimate.
"Stopping" that support at a crucial time, which is what Engdahl says happened, does not mean US engineered Shah's overthrow. The thesis is questionable at best, but suppose it's real. The argument is that US should have intervened and stopped the revolution by force! So stupid!!! There is no evidence that would have even worked or that US was capable of stopping anything.
Only the kind of Iranians who always feel inferior to the West think like you. They can't fathom Iranians being able to do anything for themselves and always think that more intelligent Europeans must have done everything.
Take Actionby kansas1 (not verified) on Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:17 AM PDT
Tell your U.S. representatives that giving Bush another excuse to start a war with Iran is not acceptable and that negotiation is the way to go:
See what Cheney junior had to say about this:
shadooneh and all others with similar ideasby Salar (not verified) on Wed Jul 02, 2008 02:14 PM PDT
Your idea would be shoot down before your first sentence can even take off by akhood mafias having their stranglehold over every aspect of iran’s economy. Did you hear what palizdar say? That is just the tip of the iceberg in akhood mafia’s operation. They control even the smallest details of iran’s economy, even such insignificant things like import of sugar and light bulbs belong to a certain mafia.
I emphasize this here again, these are all good idea’s but we always go back in circle and at the end hit the same wall again, the wall of IRI. Until IRI is in power none of these can take flight. They all have been tried in one form or another in the past 30 years and they have always failed. First IRI must be removed and the only choice is, to dismantle their regime by force. Just look at how they responded to the peaceful demonstration in mashhad and park melat in Tehran recently. Unfortunately, that is the only language they understand and respond to. Once removed, freedom and democracy can take hold and there won’t be any shortage of good ideas and conductors of those ideas in iran. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Ham khoda ham khorma nemeshieh!
Anony4now, very good response as always. I would add seda o sima and IRI propaganda machince inside and outside iran, and all the money that goes to support terrorists and their supporters around the world among many more things that are never revealed and no way to get precise figures spending on them, but the amount is significant. Just look at the operation of hezbollah in lebanon.
look at IRI, now that the threat of use of force is serious, they are starting to say things "maybe the right of nuclear is not ours so much as before" as long as the regime is in real danger. just watch how this will unfold, zahr khordan o in harfa, all so predictable of mullah regime.
Mola jaanby Salar (not verified) on Wed Jul 02, 2008 01:09 PM PDT
I don’t know why my responses to you and many obvious patriot Iranians on this side like yourself get taken away by that camel fairy and never make it out there. Anyways, have fun on your journey going back to your homeland, no need to send postcards though.
Question: how much do you think Hezbollah and hamas got from 50+ billion dollar petro income in khazaneh meli Iranians last year alone? How much did people of Bam get?
anonymous8: You're alwaysby needtohear (not verified) on Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:19 PM PDT
anonymous8: You're always accusing or name calling without backing up any of your canned rehtorics. I've also noticed that you do not like to read or you just don't care... The problem is that your arguments are not in good faith. Apparently, Reasoned argument and evidence means nothing to you if it doesn't corroborate your self-serving view of things. The complicity of US in manufacturing the soft revolution of 1978 has been well documented and cited on this site ad nauseum. How could you possibly not have seen it??? One of the best sources is a book by William Engdhal: The author of this book is still alive and has a website:
Jamshid, thanks for finally agreeing to some "harfe hesab"by Anonymous8 (not verified) on Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:45 AM PDT
no need to repeat my words since you agree with all of them. Yours are not so certain however.
one question: what country helped the Iranian revolution from the outside?
I hope you're smart enough not to say US or Britain.
Shadoonehby Anonymous4now on Wed Jul 02, 2008 08:43 AM PDT
How do you propose to do that? 40% of the Iranian population is at or below the poverty line. If the distribution of wealth has not taken place in the past 30 years how do you propose it should start now? Don’t you think the crafty mullahs know that if wealth was fairly distributed then the population would be empowered the way it was under the Shah’s regime? Don’t you think they know that as soon as people became comfortable economically, under the previous regime, they started asking for other satisfactions in life?
I wrote a response in another thread about the economic infrastructure and the distribution channels for the oil wealth of Iran. Read it and make a proposal as to how things should change from now on to empower the people to rise up against this regiem.
Here are some excerpts:
In 2006, the total income of Iran, from oil, was $56 Billion according to the Economics journal, Expansion. Of this amount 35% - 40% were diverted into the various “institutes” according to the following breakdown:
Bonyadeh Ghodseh Razavi 7.1%
Bonyadeh Mostaza’afan 5.7%
Bonyadeh Sepaheh Passdaran 5.5%
Bonyadeh Fatemeh Zahra 3.6%
Bonyadeh Sahebol Zaman 3.3%
Bonyadeh 15 Khordad 1.1%
Bonyadeh Zeynabeh Kobra 1%
Komiteh Emdad Emam Khomeini 0.9%
Bonyadeh Shohada 0.6%
Bonyadeh Basijian 0.2%
Other organizations 5.4%
None of these organizations were or are accountable to anyone and although, as of 2002, they are all to pay taxes, not one has been made to pay up. Bonyadeh Mostaza’afan alone has 400,000 employees, and is headed by Rafigh Doost, whose biggest accomplishment in life was to drive Khomeini from the Airport to Behesht Zahra, in 1979. His personal wealth is over $10 Billion. Naategh Noori who used to earn a living teaching Arabic and Persian to religious families, became the head of Majlis and is now living in a house that has an area of 30,000 sqm (square meters) with its own helicopter pad. It also houses a museum of ancient artifacts that archeologists dig up but his friend rafigh doost diverts to him through the Mostaza’afin Bonyad so he can sell them on the international market. Arzi, the previous minister of Post and Telegraph owns a 37,000 sqm home that is adorned with Italian marble statues and stairs. It has 7 entrances, guarded both with dogs and people. Hadaad Aadel, the parliament speaker, has a house known as the 10 Billion Tooman palace that was given to him by the Mostaza’afin bonyad. Valayati and other khodies (not to mention the mullahs each one of whome acts as the Godfather of a "family") have amassed similar riches, at the expense of the population at large.
The only way to get rid of the ruling akhonds is to...by Shadooneh (not verified) on Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:29 AM PDT
empower the people economically. Obviously some posters on this forum have lost patience with the people who run the IRI and mention made-by-AIPAC terms like "the point of no return", or say alarmist things like "in 20 years time there may not be [I]ran and Iranians"! This kind of balderdash may be working for those who want to bring mass bloodshed, insecurity and devastation to Iran just because they fail to see or desire, more workable alternatives to achieve transition from the present IRI to a more democratic government. Looking at sanctions in this light, I am convinced sanctions, blockades and other kind of pressures such as financial strangulation of one of the worlds major fossil fuel exporters simply do not work. Sanctions and blockades did not work on Cuba and Myanmar and they won't work on Iran either. The reason for lack of efficacy of sanctions is they push the people more under the control of the regime they are supposed to weaken or abolish. Once the means of generating income by the people is concentrated in the hands of the regime, the people have nowhere to go but to become docile in order to continue to make a living, send their kids to school and create a nest egg. I am arguing for all economic sanctions against Iran to be dropped and replaced by hefty foreign investments. These ideas may sound counter-intuitive but the result will be creation of jobs and economic stability for the people. Once the economic means of generating income for the people are yanked away from the ruling akhonds one can expect the people to do the "regime change" from within by themselves, and some help from abroad, knowing their families won't starve. Any other justification for interventions, be it shortness of time, length of time the IRI has existed or using the Zionist canard of reaching "the point of no return" is a lame excuse to see Iran occupied, subjugated and looted by you-know-who.
Salar, I'll move to Iraq If they attack Iranby Mola Nasredeen on Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:00 PM PDT
Question: How much do you think Mojahedeen were paid from the 400 million dollars?
Lord of Warby Salar (not verified) on Tue Jul 01, 2008 08:17 PM PDT
By the same logic kouroush kabir was a war lord for uniting the Persians and waging war against the enemy of Iran, so were Daryoush, khashyar, Shapur I, Babak, yaghoob leis, Nader, etc etc. if the idea of uniting our people and fighting the enemies of our people and country where necessary makes one a war lord, then I would be proud to be called that and live my life like those characters mentioned above.
From the comments here I see fine men and women of my country, informed, alert and vigilant, not being fooled by the sweet talks of sayyaid khandan and his likes anymore, Jamshid, anony4now, abc, jahanshah rashidian, amil, anonyhaha, anony500, kashani, Kurdish warrior and so many others. This is just the tip of the iceberg, there are millions more like you in Iran. We have our differences in opinion and strategies as we see them fit to best serve our country, but we have so many in common. We love our country, our people, freedom and want IRI gone, we all want a better future for our people and country. Now that’s the difference between a place like Iraq and iran, that after the removal of IRI, there are so many competent and able people to ensure the bright future of Iran and spread freedom and democracy and to protect them in Iran. Asking for removal of IRI by force may not be a politically correct thing to say and takes a lot of courage to admit it. Just wait and see, in few years time you will reach the same conclusion as so many have already in Iran, the only problem is by then we may have reached the point of no return and lost the opportunity. Wait you say and must not rush, at the rate things are going in 20 years time there may not be iran and Iranians to even speak of, much less to measure success of their reforms allowed to take place at the feet of the great mullah. Look at IRI now, they already started preparing the atmosphere for drinking the poison much like their great imam did. Now that the use of force has become serious and they see their illegitimate regime in danger of annihilation they are rushing to gulp down the poison. And now the play changes once again from hossien o shehadat o reshadat to Hassan o sazesh o maslehat!!!! How many more times we have to go through this for us to realize this regime and all those circulating around and supporting it directly or indirectly have one and only one goal in mind, to keep the regime alive, hefzeh nezam velayat. Here we go again!!!
Mammadby AnonymousHaha on Tue Jul 01, 2008 04:14 PM PDT
Can you please explain where I misrepresented your opinion?
If I did, I do apologize as well as I am not here to misrepresent any ones opinion.
are some of your own writings regarding this subject:
“The best example is south Africa. Although South Africans struggled to getrid of apartheid for a long time, but it was only in late 1970s that the
political organizations and other necessities that I described were ready to
take on the regime. By 1990 the regime was gone.”
And again I tell you that SouthAfrica was under intense international
pressure and sanctions (not consistent but there was sanctions and pressure).You do not want international pressure or sanctions on the IRI. Am Imisrepresenting the fact that you do not want international sanctions on theIRI because in your opinion it will give an excuse to the Mullahs to stay in power?
Accordingly, South Africais a poor example and you claim it as the “best example”.
As to Czechoslovakia you state:
The Czechoslovakia that I talked about was in 1967-68, full 27 years before the SovietUnion collapsed.
OK. Please see what happened in Czechoslovakia in 1968 as per Wikkepidia
“In 1968, in responseto a brief period of liberalization, five Eastern Bloc countries invadedCzechoslovakia. In 1969, Czechoslovakia was turned into a federation of the Czech Socialist Republic and Slovak Socialist Republic………... However,the centralized political control by the Communist Party severely limited the effects of federalization.”
Don’t you think, in all honesty, that you should stick to the collapse of the Soviet Union around 1989-1992 when Havel actually took power and the Eastern Block as controlled By the Soviets collapsed? As far as I see it, in 1968 they got invaded by five other countries. Are you suggesting that the IRI should be invaded by other countries or should it become a socialist republic?
Moreover, all these countries are poor countries. No oil- they were communists. Once the support of the Soviet block was gone, transformation was easy. Remember how fast the Berlin wall came down once the Soviets were out of the picture?
As to blaming US for failure to reform, You have stated the following previously in multiple blogs:
“ 1. So long as there is an external
threat to Iran's national security, the hardliners will use it to suppress all
the groups that want deep changes for the better in Iran. This is what happens in any country undersimilar conditions. After the 9/11 events the Bush administration shoved down our throats the Patriotic Act, started eavesdropping on US citizens, checking mails and internet. Most critics of invasion of Iraq were silenced by attacks as unpatriots, etc. This is too well-known to ignore. Only when all the lies and deceptions became clear, the antiwar movement recovered. The same is true about Iran. Therefore, the first step is removal of the threat. That is, preventing US military attacks on Iran. “
OR NOW THE FOLLOWING: \
“I never said that Khatami failed because of the US. Khatami failed
mainly because of, (1) his own characters; (2) the fact that he and the
reformists around him were not ready to govern and, therefore, they had
no real program, and (3) the fact that, due to (1) and (2), he was not
ready or willing to challenge the system. I consider Khatami a good, clean (of blood) man, with honesty, and good intentions for his nation. But, he is who he is, just as we are what and who we are.
All I said abouit Khatami and the US was that, if the US was really interested in seeing reform and movement towards democracy succeed in Iran, it could have helped the reformists by lifting the sanctions. At the same time, they refused to negotiate with khatami, claiming that Iran's president has no power, but now, all of a sudden, they have made Ahmadinejad the most powerful man. These are indisputable facts. “
So Khatami wasted 8 years of Iranian lives because no one around him
"was ready to govern" or willing/ready to "challenge the system"; and
it was also his "character"? Give as a break Mammad. So the People
around Ahmadinejad can govern? So the people who will peacfully bring
about change to the IRI (as you propose) will one day be able to
govern? So basically we should wait until our leaders who we vote for lear to govern and challenge the system.
My main point, with no intent to misrepresent you, was that You have used the unilateral sanctions on the IRI by the US, or the threat to attack, as an excuse, or one of the excuses of failure to reform. You also have listed other factors (I admit that although I don’t agree with your other factors either). My point is that you blamed the US and someone in the IRI will always find somebody to blame for reforms. Look how easy it is for you to blame the US or Khatami's character flaws. So the IRI could not get replacement parts for its aircraft, sell pistachios and carpets to the Americans- this is serious enough to be able to call off the reforms during the Khatami era? You have also mentioned somewhere that Clinton
threatened to attack the IRI over Kobar. So that becomes a good excuse to shut all the reform papers, enforce dress codes, arrest Bahis and Jews, crack down on Sattelite dishes and change election laws so only conservatives become elected?………we can go on forever.
Additionally, Why does the US have a duty suddenly to the Islamic Reformers in the IRI? You are against them when they want to help Iraqi’s but you would be willing to take their support (or “help”) if those who were on the receiving end of the support are part of the
You consider Khatami a good man? Come on. Maybe he was a
Gorbachev want to be- we will never know. In fact, contrary to what you say, I think that if the US did help, it would embolden the “conservatives” to crack down even more because he would be seen as someone who is in the pockets of the “Great Satan”. It was
better for the US to have the same policy or even harsher policy so he was not viewed as an American puppet because the Americans directly or indirectly helped him in the eyes of the conservatives.
What I, and others are trying to tell you is:
There will always be an excuse. The IRI system is very weak
and allows few individuals to control everything (no different that any other middle eastern state these days). What you
are proposing will not work because it is very easy to get rid of the
opposition who tries to bring change within the frameworks of the IRI
You, and people with your point of view, may be full of good
intentions and are great Iranian patriots. I have seen nothing but good intention for Iran from you. However, your intention, as good as they may be have very negative EFFECTS. This is the same problem I have with the NIAC. Principally, it acknowledges and validates this IRI regime and its system without any meaningful and honest criticism of the IRI and its crimes against the Iranian population. It totaly ignores the failure that is called IRI.
As to foreign invasion/attack of Iran. I think most people are mixing apples and oranges. If the West does attack, its not to free the poor Iranians. They would only attack to protect their interest. They could care less about Iran.I have read all these reports that the Americans are spending money. I don’t know how true they are but I think they would fail miserably . Any attempted regime change by outsiders would be invalid in my opinion (and the opinion of 99.9% of Iranians including yourself). However, if Iranians did rise up and did receive help from outsiders to achieve their goals, I would not have a problem as long as such resistance to the regime comes from all different political groups. If resistance to the regime is only done by one group, we will again have the same problems we have now. Change must come from all different aspects of Iranian society not just from 15% or 40%. Sadly, I do not see this happening either. Just look at us. Shahis, Tudeh, Islamists, Communists, Socialists,
Islamic Socialists, MEK…. We can not treat each other with respect. We solve political problems the old fashioned way still (you know the Mafia style tribal style way). We blame all our problems on imperialism and its desire to control our oil. I blame all our problems on oil and the different tribal/political groups who would love to control it. Do we know less or have less of a culture than the South Koreans, Japan, Israel, or the Indians to be behind all of them in either economic, human rights and scientific advancements? We have no one to blame but ourselves.
Re: Anoymous8by jamshid on Tue Jul 01, 2008 03:04 PM PDT
You wrote, "a change instigated by US is not legitimate."
I agree. Therefore the 1979 revolution was illegitimate too since the Western propaganda machine aided it wholeheartedly. Back then Islamists didn't seem to mind their Western support.
You wrote, "External threats always stop and retard real change from within..."
Exactly. And that is why the IRI wants the presence of those threats forever, in order to crush any real change from within.
You wrote, "No war, no sanctions, no funding of terrorists..."
No war, no sanctions, no funding of terrorists against Iran AND down with the IRI that is inching Iran closer to yet another war, has economically sanctioned the people of Iran in favor of its 10% khodis, and is funding domestic terrorism to crush any opposition and "instigate" tension abroad.
I still very likely repeat all these to you in 5 hours.
Mammadby Anonymous4now on Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:58 PM PDT
in the Communist countries,ideology was forced onto people and so it was easy for even the thugs to not carry out their duties whole heartedly. They were doing it for King and country and as soon as there was any hint that king and country were shaky they gave up the ideology. In Iran it is God and king that rule and so the faithful will never shake off that devotion that their leaders reinforce all the time.
“Which system do you think is stronger: The Soviet's in the 1980s, or the present IRI?”
is disguised. Of course the Soviet empire was militarily stronger but ideologically, it became depleted. The IRI is a lot stronger ideologically because it feeds on raw faith, and I don’t think you believe it will ever be depleted, because that will mean the end of Islam in Iran. While it is true that not all the 15% of opportunists (khodies) are hard core Islamists, the regime thugs, basiji, hezbollahi, passdar, are ideological to the core.
AnonymousHahaby Mammad on Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:12 PM PDT
Yesterday I was told that I misrepresented the opinion of one person, and was asked to apologize. I did, even though I still am not sure that I had misunderstood things.
Today, exactly the same thing that I was accused of is being done to me.
First of all, you need to define for me what a "satisfactory" response is. Is it something that you agree with, or is it something coherent and consistent within the context that is presented?
Now, regarding what I told you a while ago:
The Czechoslovakia that I talked about was in 1967-68, full 27 years before the Soviet Union collapsed.
The Poland that I talked about started its struggle in the 1970s, at the peak of the Soviet power.
I also gave you such examples as South Africa, Chile, etc., which achieved democracy on their own. I do not believe that the present IRI is stronger than the apartheid regime, or the Pinochet regime in Chile.
Which system do you think is stronger: The Soviet's in the 1980s, or the present IRI?
I never said that Khatami failed because of the US. Khatami failed mainly because of, (1) his own characters; (2) the fact that he and the reformists around him were not ready to govern and, therefore, they had no real program, and (3) the fact that, due to (1) and (2), he was not ready or willing to challenge the system. I consider Khatami a good, clean (of blood) man, with honesty, and good intentions for his nation. But, he is who he is, just as we are what and who we are.
All I said abouit Khatami and the US was that, if the US was really interested in seeing reform and movement towards democracy succeed in Iran, it could have helped the reformists by lifting the sanctions. At the same time, they refused to negotiate with khatami, claiming that Iran's president has no power, but now, all of a sudden, they have made Ahmadinejad the most powerful man. These are indisputable facts.
So, since you think that Iran cannot be changed from within without violence, should I assume that you do support violence for overthrowing the IRI? If you do, do you support foreign-supported violence, or only when it is done by the Iranians living in Iran, without any outside interference. I hesitate to comment on this, because I'll be accused again of misrepresentation, which is certainly not my intention.
In addition, I am not naive to think that deep changes in Iran can be completely free of violence. The issue is to MINIMIZE the violence not to AVOID it at all cost.
i don't know why Jamshid and Haha are hard of hearingby Anonymous8 (not verified) on Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:15 AM PDT
during strategic moments that benefits them.
Q and Mammad and myself have always answered your questions thoroughly. The bottom line is this:
a change instigated by US is not legitimate.
This is a fact of life given Iran's history with America and western powers.
External threats always stop and retard real change from within. A grassroots movement is always superior to external military action.
No war, no sanctions, no funding of terrorists be it Rajavi cultists or Shahollahis.
if you don't accept this, you are too ideological to be of any use to Iran. I think you still don't get it. I will likely repeat it again 5 days from now.
Thanks Jamshid...by AnonymousHaha on Tue Jul 01, 2008 08:15 AM PDT
For reminding Mammad of the exchange regarding whether IRI can
change from within.
I never got a satisfactory response from Mammad. When asked for
specific tyrannys that changed from within, he refers to to the
Soviet Union, Poland and the Chec republic. Failing to realize that
the Soviets went bankrupt in competition with the US and that Poland
and the Chec were both Satellite states of the Soviets. As the
Soviets collapsed so did its satellite states (Poland was just the
beginning signs of Soviet weakness).
Conversely, the IRI is not on the verge of going bankrupt. It has
all the free oil money to support it as long as there is oil. Why
should they give up power through peaceful means. He admits that 15%
are “armed to the teeth”. The IRI is basically a welfare state
for 15% of the population. The poor have stayed poor in the past 30
years, grown in population and depend on the IRI for survival.
Ahmadinejad is a perfect representative of this class in the IRI.
Mammad just likes to shift the burden on the west (mainly the US).
Its all because of US policy as far as he is concerned. He blames the
failure of the Khatami year's attempt at reform on the US. This is
absolutely ridiculous. The IRI will always find an excuse, even if
the US was completely out of the picture. He ignores idiotic IRI
policies and behavior which has lead to the pressures on the IRI with
regards to its nuclear program. Nations who were not traditionally
on the US side with respect to its Iraq policies are more American
than the Americans when it comes to the IRI. I am talking about
Germany, France.... they are all afraid of the IRI and see it as a
Mammad, none of these countries are afraid of Turkey. A country
with a much stronger conventional military might than the IRI. An
Islamic country. Why? Its not Islam or Muslims that they are afraid
of. Its the Ideology.
A country which forces the Christian husband of a Muslim Iranian
woman to first convert to Islam before they give them visas so she
can visit her sick mother can not be changed from within without
Lord of War (to Salar)by Anonym7 (not verified) on Tue Jul 01, 2008 07:38 AM PDT
Salar, have you watched Lord of War (2005) //www.imdb.com/title/tt0399295/
or you are a War Lord, i.e, MEK cult leader?
Here is what happened a fewby Anonymousanonymous (not verified) on Tue Jul 01, 2008 07:27 AM PDT
Here is what happened a few days ago in Mashad: Note: There are using tazers.
میدونستم که ساعت پنج قرار هست یک تجمع اعتراض امیز در پارک ملت برگزار بشه ! ساعت چهار راه افتادم و یک دوری حومه پارک ملت زدم ببینم اوضاع از چه قراره … هر چه که به چشم میخورد نیروهای انتظامی بود که دور پارک ملت رو به محاصره در اورده بودن ! داخل خیابونهای فرعی اتوبوس های مملو از نیرو پارک شده بود !
ساعت پنج نیروها قبل از اینکه شعار ها شروع بشه شروع به بازداشت کردند ! ماشین ها پر میشد از بازداشت شده ها و راه می افتاد … تجمع کم کم شکل گرفت و شلوغ شد …نیروهای لباس شخصی همه جا پر بودند و هر کس رو که میگرفتند کتک میزدند ! یه لباس شخصی بود این پفیوز فک کنم بوکسور بود … چنان هر کس رو که میگرفتن زیر مشت و لگد میگرفت که انگار دشمن خونیشه ! مردم که شروع کردند به شعار دادن و سوت زدن یکدفعه نیروهایی با جلیقه سبز حمله کردند و بلافاصله نیروهای لباس پلنگی که مسلح به اسلحه هایی بودن که تا حالا ندیدم بودم ! اسلحه ها تقریبا شبیه سیمینوف بود اما با لوله هایی بزرگتر و جلیقه های ضد گلوله و سپر که به تجمع حمله کردند ! یه عده از نیرو ها هم لباس سرتاسر نارنجی پوشیده بودن که در نگاه اول فکر کردم رفتگر هستند ولی فهمیدم نیروهای ویژه هستن !
چیزی که برام جالب بود نیروهایی بودند که لباس هاس فرم سر تاسر مشکی پوشیده و کلاه های کش باف مشکی به سر مجهز به کلت کمری و کارد با دستکش های چرمی بی انگشت و قیافه های سوخته و البته ورزیده ! ایندفعه بر عکس دفعه قبل نیروها قبل از اینکه تظاهرات شروع بشه وارد عمل شدند و میتونم بگم اکثرا شانسی میگرفتن و از روی قیافه ها بازداشت میکردن !
جوانی رو گرفته بودند و داشتند میزدند و میبردند که مادرش رسید و دست پسرش را کشید که یکی از این مامورها با باتوم زد روی دست مادرش و پسر رو بردن ! نیروهای زن چند نفری به زنان حمله میکردند و یک نفر اونها رو که میگرفتن نیروهای لباس شخصی دست هاشون رو به هم دور اونها حلقه میکردند و به طرف ماشین نیروی انتظامی میبردند تا مردم برای ازادی اون زن نتونن کاری بکنن !
یک پیر مرد رو گرفتن و نمیدونم چی دیده بودن ازش که خیلی بهش سخت گرفتن و بازجویی بدنی کردند ازش و وقتی اعتراض کرد زدن توی دهنش که بنده خدا دندون مصنوعی بالاش از تو دهنش افتاد و اون رو از روی زمین برداشت …با اینکه ماشین جا نداشت این پیرمرد رو به زور هل دادن و توی ماشینش کردن و ماشین راه افتاد !
با یکی از نیروهای لباس شخصی روی هم ریختم و گرفتمش زیر سوال ..گفت از تمام شهر های استان نیرو اومده مشهد …میگفت از هفت صبح اینجاییم و پاهام شل شده ! بهش گفتم حاجی یه چیزایی این مامورا دستشونه چیه ؟ گفت اینا شک وارد میکنه … میگفت اشعه داره و به هر کسی بخوره نمیتونه حرکت کنه و میفته ! گفت این دیوونه ها نمیدونن چقدر نیرو اومده ! همینقدر که نیروهای لباس رسمی هست همینقدر هم لباس شخصی اینجا هست !
داشتم برمیگشتم روبروی کلانتری سجاد شلوغ بود … مادرهایی که دنبال گم کرده های خودشون بودن !))
گزارشی بود از پیک ایران
slara, exhale before you pass out...by Mola Nasredeen on Tue Jul 01, 2008 06:53 AM PDT
Your blog was so moving that I almost fainted while reading it. I remembered to exhale and I felt better afterward. I have the same suggestion for you.
Reform has failed, appeasement has failed, subordination failedby Slara (not verified) on Tue Jul 01, 2008 01:51 AM PDT
Student and civil movement, velvet, pink, orange,…. revolutions have all failed against this barbaric mullah regime. They have all been experimented and tried but failed. 20+ million voted for khatami in hope of reforms, it failed. The same number of people didn’t even show up for antari-nejad’s election and didn’t vote for yet another reformer or sardar sazeshoo o sazandegi = Rafsanjani, in their eyes they were fooled twice by the smiling mullah and his reforms but never again.
In another thread I wrote quite a bit about this and I say it here again. Show me one historical example where democracy and freedom has been established against fierce opposition and repression of a regime that claims its legitimacy from divine power and religious establishment much less ours that the king and pope is all wrapped in one absolute ruler. All major democracies, British, French, American came to be by fierce revolutions and battles. The British example is a comprehensive one, look at the history and progress of Manga Carta in history which after 400 years of reforms against the king and its partners in religious establishment finally had to fully be put in place and to pave the way for common law (ie democratic constitution) by a battle and execution of the king and his theocrat supporters (is it really surprising they always end up in the same camp?). Pay special attention to eviction of archbishop Laud and the rest of the bishops from the parliament and his trial, which btw was found guilty of high treason and executed based on claiming that magna carta was invalid since it had not come to place by REFORMS and it was forced upon the king by rebellion. Certainly reminds us of some claims done by reformers today in our case, doesn‘t it??
What these people say now by reforms even with their good, naïve intentions, going against the most brutal and repressive regime ever seen in modern history is highly hypothetical and theoretical and have absolutely no validation and proof in history that it would succeed. Moreover, our very own experiments with it for more that 8 years showed its inability and failure against velayat faghieh and its Islamo-fascist state. Now draw your own conclusions on what must be done in practical terms, what choices are left for people of Iran now? more waiting? I am talking about our underage girls and boys being sold in UAE, go and look at their own reports in Shargh newspaper for god’s sake, our nation has been number one in drug use in the world shown by UN data reports, girls at age of 10 prostituting on the streets, didn‘t you hear a word this abas palizdar say? Wake up people. What territorial integrity???? The integrity of our people is being raped everyday, now you are talking about some dirt and paper to me. I am sorry, I love Iran and every bit of it but where are your priorities? People, IRI must be gone, retired, whatever you wish to call it, first for any of these concepts to find true meanings. The only way is by force, to cut off IRI’s oppressive arms (sepah and basij) and give Iranians support and courage necessary to finish IRI.
Mammad, I have already given your answerby jamshid on Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:13 PM PDT
Re: Mammadby jamshid on Mon Jun 30, 2008 09:59 PM PDT
Illegal war against Iranby Ahmed from Bahrain on Mon Jun 30, 2008 09:50 PM PDT
Any sopposedly Persian origin person who advocates attacking Iran becuase of IRI is not worth the blood that runs thro their vein.
Such persons have no love for the land which will be contaminated by the Zionist DU nor respect for the people and their hirtiage who will undoubtedly suffer the consesquences of such barbaric attack. To understand what the consequences will be, just look at Iraq. Think of inncent lives at stake because of these warmongers and don't tell me IRI also kills Iranians. That is childish and ignorant to kill just because others also kill.
As a Persian, I will not tolerate Israeli/American adventure in the land of my ancestors, regardless of Mullahs. It is upto the people of Iran to eventually decide their own fate, not upto Zionist Israel or American neocons or their agents. And think: all Iranians living in USA will be suspects regardless if you love America. Your lot will be treated like the Japanese during attack of Japan.
Support such Americans if you will:
and if you have doubt as who is behind these wars, read here:
Peace to mankind.
Ahmed from Bahrain
Jamshidby Mammad on Mon Jun 30, 2008 07:52 PM PDT
First answer my question: Describe to us your way of making deep changes in Iran. You are evading it.
As I said, you seem to like only commenting on what I say.
Anonymous4nowby Mammad on Mon Jun 30, 2008 07:50 PM PDT
I am sorry, but I do not see it that way.
A strike by the oil industry led by Iranians living in Iran, without outside interference, is vastly different from one by the outsiders. This is my whole point: whatever change that comes in Iran must be done by Iranians living in Iran.
Jamshidby Kurdish Warrior (not verified) on Mon Jun 30, 2008 07:23 PM PDT
Thanks for bringing up the points about Kurds.
Unfortunately many of so called oppositions are very passive and believe in reform from within. What they don't understand is the Mullah won't just leave their posts and allow a democratic movement take place. They will do what ever it takes to hold on tight to what they have achieved so far. Theses people need to wake up...
Mammadby Anonymous4now on Mon Jun 30, 2008 06:54 PM PDT
We have come full circle now. What is the difference between an oil and economic embargo and an oil and economic boycott, as a result of civil unrest, for the average Iranian? The reason strikes worked in 1978-79 is that the Shah’s government was paying government employees even as they were on strike. This regime will kill in order to make a point, and people know it. That is why it will never happen. So, in the end, in terms of achieving the goal of destabilizing the regime, what is the difference between a blockade (the topic of this discussion) and strikes, other than the obvious danger it poses to those on strike?
Re: Mammad, a few notesby jamshid on Mon Jun 30, 2008 07:04 PM PDT
You wrote, "a sustained and comprehensive strike in the oil industry can break the back of the radicals in Iran. But, that needs organization and leadership that does not exist yet."
The problem I have with such statements is that although they sound correct, but they are not feasible, rendering them as false statements. For example, there is no way that under the IRI rule such organization and leadership could ever come into existance.
You keep thinking of the Shah's regime. I keep repeating to you that the Shah's regime and the IRI are two different entities. What worked with the previous regime will not work with the current one.
It is legitimate to ask why after 30 years such organization and leadership does not exist yet. Or how can it be created without bloodeshed or imprisonment in say 30 more years. Perhaps you can provide details.
Your comparison of South Africa and Iran is wrong. The South African regime was not willing to kill hundreds of thousands in order to survive. That is why they gave in. They had no choice.
However, the IRI is easily willing to kill hundreds of thousands in order to continue its survival. It killed about 8000 in just one day in 1988, eventhough it was not necessary for its survival. So they do have a track record.
You wrote, "the threat may be brought onto Iran by what the hardliners do. But, if the US is smart, it can take away the excuse."
Ok. Let's say you are the US and do whatever you see fit to take away any excuses the IRI today has. Allow me to be the IRI. I am hellbent to create tension and "excuses". I order my assets in the region to fire rockets on Israel, explode a bomb on a US ship and so on. What would you, the US, do? Sit idle?
That is the whole point. You talk about taking the excuse away, while the IRI won't and is fully capable of not allowing it. The threat would forever continue to exist. The IRI lives on and nurtures itself on this threats. It is its bread and butter.
Again you talk about something that sounds good, but it is not feasible.
Also, why should Iran have so many problems when it wants to have nuclear technology for peaceful reasons? The West not only had no problems, but they were even competing against each other to provide that technology and the know-how as well to Iran under the previous regime.
Lastly, you wrote, "The difference between me and people like you is..."I am interested to know who those "people like me" are. You seem to have a cateogry for me and some others. So can you elaborate on what these people have in common, etc. I am asking this purely out of curiosity.
Jamshidby Mammad on Mon Jun 30, 2008 03:17 PM PDT
Regarding the Iranian Revolution:
The difference between me and people like you is perhaps in the following equation:
Revolution=Ruling group after the Revolution
The two are not the same. Revolution had its roots and was, in my opinion, totally justified. In terms of political and social freedom it has failed misreably. But, that is not, in my opinion, because the Revolution was not justified. The Revolution was simply highjacked.
Regarding changes in Iran:
Fine, disagree with what I say. Why don't tell the rest of us how you think change should be brought to Iran. Give us a detailed response, not based on cultural wishes, but based on practical and implementable steps.
Salar: Are you advocatingby abc (not verified) on Mon Jun 30, 2008 02:25 PM PDT
Salar: Are you advocating for war on Iran??? Yes or no??