IRAN-U.S.

In Answer to Question

This discussion is getting a bit out of control: Why make things simple when you can make them complicated?

I´m not highly motivated to offset past activities, you cannot turn back time anyway. BUT: Apologizing is always a sign of respect, it shows that both parties have learnt from the past and are looking forward to working together. And it´s very important for gaining credibility. So if they are really interested in coming together, they BOTH should apologize to each other.

If it´s so important to someone to blaim a bit around, this can help a bit:

1) Should the country USA apologize to the country Shah-Iran? No
2) Should the country USA apologize to the country IRI? Partially (Gulf War)
3) Should the country USA apologize to the people of Iran? Twice (1953 & 1979)
4) Should the country Shah-Iran apologize to the country USA? No
5) Should the country IRI apologize to the country USA? Yes (Insult)
6) Should the country IRI apologize to the people of USA? Partially (Jews)

Mehrazar...

That is a good one, and I've heard worse than that too. Who knows, these are folk stories and I have not seen any source for any of them though. We know that it took some 300 years for conversion to islam to complete across iran, with some never converting, so there must have been some unhappy jaziyeh-paying folks there for a long time who probably loved to poke at the corrupt and brutal fanatic caliphs of the time.

going wild Kadivar?

Kadivar, you are posting comments as yourself here with full name and real face, and it would be very unfair of me to respond to you in a similar way as I post anonymously. However I can assure you as an Esfahani who grew up in lower class and not among the royalty (unlike your majesty) I could more than embarrass you....

Anonym7 Why Should I say Marg to begin with ?

Why Don't You answer my questions from time to time instead of asking one after another ...

Aslan Toh Meedoony Fascism Cheeyeh ? Do You also know the difference between Faschism and Nazism ? I don't think you do. Both were Totalitarian ideologies and condemnable but Fascism did not include Racial Superiority ideology as Nazism did. Mussolini did however have to accept it when he lost ground in italy with the allies invading Italy and when Hitler brought him back to Power. So he had to accept the deportation of Italian Jews to Germany. Franco too was  a Fascist dictator, Yet Spain became a Democracy thanks to Franco. Also Jews were not deported in Franco's Spain through which many Jews fled to America and other Free countries. Spain did not participate in the War.

Start using words you understand their full significance before throwing them around irresponsibly ! ... 

Death to Shah :

No Never. Stupid Shah Yes, Death to Shah No !

My father a surgeon operated equally revolutionaries and soldiers during the dark days of the revolution when both were fighting eachother and the least I can do is never to say Death to a Person even if god knows I am tempted to do so when I read the Shit here.

Michael Leeden Vs Robert Baer: 

Of course I know Michael Leeden's reputation and I don't like him (No more than I like Richard Pearl)  I actually denounced him in a film review I did on Robert Baer's Syriana movie adaptation:

SYRIANA BREAKS IRANIAN STEREOTYPES BY DARIUS KADIVAR

The Same Robert Baer Whom I also Criticized for his own dubious role in Kurdistan and his Lobbying of the IRI in Washington:

//iranian.com/main/node/50925

And which so many Iranian Liberals on this very website have been hailing as a Great Guy when he is calling Kurdish Freedom Fighters Terrorists in this Hoax of a Report because they smuggle Playboy magazines and Alcohol into Iran:

//iranian.com/main/singlepage/2008/secret-war-iran

Why Is Sleeping with AIPAC ( Using Condoms) a Crime but Sleeping with the IRI a Virtue ? All the More that Iranians and Jews have more in Common Historically than Iranians and the IRI !  The Mayor of LA Jimmy Delshad is Jewish Iranian and does much to help the Iranian community in general and is proud of his Iranian heritage.

All the more that in the latter case Iran Bombed the Kurds with the Turkish Army exactly a few days after the Israelians bombed GAZA. How Convenient to accuse the Israelis of Genocide but not clean in front of their own doors ...

As for the Neo Con's Of Course some Old Guard monarchists ( who were at odds with RP) flirted with the Neo Cons in Washington at first, even with some enthusiasm given their staunch stance against the IRI. People like Leeden or Pearl belong to Think Tanks and make a living as middle men and offer lobbying for groups with whom they think they can find common ground or if they think they can have mutual interests. They have access to TV and Medias and more importantly with people in the Administration in the White House. Sometimes its indirect contacts at others it is direct. The Liberals and Democrats on Capitol Hill also have their own think tanks too Like Gary Sick or Brezinski who are often in good terms with IRI diplomats. As a matter of fact monarchists also flirted with Bill Clinton's Democrat Administration when he was President. Flirting is the Rule of the Game on Capitol Hill anyway. Everyone in diplomatic circles tries to have access to information or be influential with the Adminstration running the country. But Flirting with in order to have access to higher levels of influence is not the same as endorsing their actions or Policies. After All One of the consenquences of flirting with these people was to help finance the opposition groups by the US Congress which in effect is financing such medias like VOA persian or Radio Farda/ Radio Liberty in beaming into Iran which is nothing unusual since the same was done when America helped dissidents fight Communism in Eastern Europe. What's Wrong with That ?

As a matter of fact when Leeden started making some dubious comments before the Iraq War but regarding Iran as composed of different people and not a naturally united country suggesting that he would not be entirely against a dislocation of the country, he was very staunchly and harshly criticized by the monarchists and had to make some public excuses for his blunders by responding to the KRSI radio in LA.  From then on the monarchists started taking some distance with him and the neo cons in general.

At Least IF the Monarchists tried to sleep or slept with AIPAC or neo cons as you say (which I DON'T believe they do ) I am sure They used Codoms.

Persian Literature, I heard from other sources

that Persians labored the mosque with "one" dome and "two" minarets to show "Zahak", a head with two snakes on shoulder.

good thoughts, good words, good deeds make sense too.

re·ac·tion·ar·y

re·ac·tion·ar·y (r-ksh-nr)
adj.
Characterized by reaction, especially opposition to progress or liberalism; extremely conservative.
n. pl. re·ac·tion·ar·ies
An opponent of progress or liberalism; an extreme conservative.

reactionary
Adjective
opposed to political or social change

Who is opposed to real and structural political change in Iran?? Both reformers and hardliners because they are fed by the same trough.

//www.thefreedictionary.com/reactionary

Kadivar, did you ever say marg bar shah?

Kadivar-e azeez, I rather start with present! Can you tell me why Iranian Monarchists, in particular Reza2 camp have been in bed with the neocons, AIPAC, and other fascist or borderline fascist entities, and war criminals, I am sure you are smart enough to know Michael Ledeen ....,
No links this time, unless it is a good french song.
BTW, where you in Iran before and during the revolution or you were in France? Did you say 'marg bar shah' ever?

Anonym7 Go Learn Your History Kid ...

Revealing errors
Iran, Jews and the Holocaust: An answer to Mr. Black By Abbas Milani

pictory: Pahlavi and Jews

//iranian.com/Pictory/2002/November/jewish.html

More on Abbas Milani :

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHLd-dfrrsk

ta libetre de monarchie Kadivar!?

Kadivar says: "Why Don't you Go Sing with YOUR Neo Nazi Partners in Crime who endorsed these killings..."

But Kadivar-e azeez, historically and currently the Iranian Monarchists are the ones who have been involved with the fascist governments,...., at some point with the Nazis (during the Reza1), and currently with the extremist Zionists and the U.S ultra right. That is why I am so surprised that a liberal such as yourself who lectures us on fascism is so fanatically involved with a basically ultra right fascist camp (Reza2 camp)?
BTW, can you correct my french, even if you don't want to share any more french songs?

Anonymous7 Since You Insist on a French Song

 I think this song  truly fit your views and that of your friends ...

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=03AxJZoaICc

For Overlooking the TRUE and LEGITIMATE Demands of People against this Abject Regime :

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNeqL8Frvbs&feature=related

No Matter Who tries to alert You even People like Abbas Milani who is not even a monarchist, You Guys Keep a Blind Eye and Deaf Ears:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHLd-dfrrsk

You are either Too Young to have lived the Revolution like This Niloufar Parsi not to say that she probablynever had relatives who lived through WWII Europe to be shocked by the historical distortions made on OUR NATIONAL TV In IRan...

Anonym7 Ma Liberte de Lecture !

Why Don't you Go Sing with YOUR Neo Nazi Partners in Crime who endorsed these killings...

EVEN AFTER ALL THIS TIME By Afschineh Latifi ( A Memoir ):

//iranian.com/main/blog/darius-kadivar/book-even-after-all-time-afschineh-latifi-memoir

 A Women for All Seasons : Farokhroo Pārsā (1922-1980)

//iranian.com/main/blog/darius-kadivar/pictory-women-all-seasons-farokhroo-p-rs-1922-1980

To Hassan Kachal's Treacherous Pro Hamas and Pro IRI Collaborators, I still prefer Alladin's Loyalty ( Even in French) :

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_riPk5hmfs

And Royalty ...

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbYJUHTsqXs&NR=1

Dear NP

The First one was by Khayam the 2nd was from Hafez- almost 300 years apart. That is why I think Persian Literature is right in his/her analysis.

Also, you state the following:

"ancient iran fell so easily to the arab invasion precisely because of
its rigid and inhuman caste system. harking back to pre-islamic iran
like some kind of heaven on earth is simply a self-indulgent fantasy."

Are you saying that Islam got rid of this "caste system"?  Wasn't Iran a feudal state until the Shah's White Revolution?Wasn't this feudal state preserved by the clergy who were one of the biggest landowners?

I am not a monarchist by the way. I am just trying to see what you are saying exactly.  

Ok Kadivar, how about some french music!

Ok, Kadivar-e azeez, you want to stick with your Israeli/American puppet prince (Reza2), fine! You see no need to look for Hasan Kachal for prince, fine! You don't want to be the Hasan Kachal, fine! You want to burden yourself with apologizing for the rotten monarchy, fine!

How about a good french music now? (like 'ma liberte de penser').

MERCI MAHMOUD: Thousands attend neo-Nazi rally in Germany ;0(

Khoshhaleed? ;0(

//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7890993.stm?lss

Another one in England Somerset:

//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/7632507.stm

Khejalat Ham Khoub Chezeeheh ...

IRI apologists Call Mickey Mouse A Jew, America embrace Khayyam

You Spit on Everything American and Demand Respect in Return ? First You take Hostages then burn Flags and Still Ask for Excuses ? Now Even Take Our Greatest Poets Hostage to Islamic Revisionism ? ...

Even HOLLYWOOD has More Respect for Khayyam's poetry and humanism than most of you IRI apologists :

//www.rozanehmagazine.com/MarchApril03/Adariuskhayam.html

" Gaga for Khayyam "
Hollywood's depiction
of the great Persian Poet's life
By Darius Kadivar

Sorry Fellows You have a LONG, LONG WAY TO GO TO DESERVE RESPECT, INCLUDING OF YOUR FELLOW COMPATRIOTS YOU KICKED OUT OF THE COUNTRY !

KHAK TOO SARETOON ! KHEJALAAT NAMEEKESHEED !

SHAME ON YOU !

IRI DENIALS OF THE HOLOCAUST USING THE SAME NEO NAZI ARGUMENTS KNOWN FOR THEIR FALLACY TO CREATE DOUBT ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST :

PART I:

PART II:( INTERVIEWS A FRENCH MEMBER OF JEAN MARIE LE PEN's RACIST NATIONAL FRONT PARTY) 

Go JOIN YOUR HAMAS BROTHERHOOD AND SISTERHOOD INSTEAD :

Iranian Scholar: Tom & Jerry is a Jewish Conspiracy and doubts reality described in Schindlers List:

anonym7: on irony

yes it never ceases to amaze how these seemingly opposing ideologies are mirror images of each other. they apply the same methods but for allegedly different goals. if you scratch the surface of their discourse, you will find a common myopic vision underneath: a blind, antagonistic, condescending, self-obsessed, virulent form of nationalism. them and us. as simple as that. arab versus persian versus jew versus aryan versus muslim versus zoroastrian... it goes round and round in circles. try reaching out across the identity lines and they will crucify you the I.T. way.

even more ironic is that these identity constructs are used to impose long-gone definitions on us exactly at a time when (and perhaps because?) globalisation is gathering pace. And in this sense, the IRI's most extreme cultural isolationists, the zionist absolutists and our myopic shahi aryans are no different from each other.

they are all heavily into blowing against the wind. definition of a reactionary.

Anonym7 Diffence Between Apologists ? ...

The Difference ?

A Monarchist Apologist is accountable for the Past and holds a Promise for the Future not to repeat the same mistakes.

An IRI Apologist is accountable for the Present and his or her arguments justify current events regardless of the pain and sufferings they imply for the people with NO PROMISE FOR CHANGE !

So criticizing and contradicting an IRI Apologist is all the more justified and legitimate given that their stance only perpetuates the suffering of the people TODAY.

I can only give you the benefit of the doubt in YOUR choice ...

AI:

Omar khayam? he is my favourite btw, precisely because of his anti-puritan character.

he too is part of iran's diversity. like us. no point denying the existence of any particular outlook or religion as 'un-Iranian'.

20/20: take  a little more time when responding so you can be a little more coherent. there is more anger in your comment than there is sense coming through.

Farhad Kashani you have no clue what you are talking about!

Go and get your facts and sources lined up before you spew more ridiculous propaganda. Aren't you tiered of writing the same crap over and over again. People who buy off on what you are writing can't be that ignorant or are they?

Mehrazar...

The reason that I hesitated explaining this is because it is based on folk talk; that is, I have no documented evidence of this.

I have heard two opposing explanations, both from folklore rather than any reliable sources. One is that converting Zoroastrians wanted the dome and minarets to represent the three mantras of Zoroastrianism as 20/20 explained: good thoughts, good words, good deeds.

I have also heard another folklore attributed to unhappy tax-paying persian labors, but sufficient to say that it is not a polite explanation.

Abarmard: I did not think you would bring yourself down to the low level of islamists who continuously use allegations of zionism/imperialism/savak/shah to divert attention and justify the brutality of the islamic republic with blood of some 40,000+ iranian youths on their hands.

The islamists are the ones who care more for non-iranians than iranians, who belittle anything iranian and elevate anything islamic, not the other way around.

When it comes to iran, rhetorics such as zionism, palestinianism, imperialism, islamism are all equally foreign, immaterial, unrelated, and unimportant. We will not be able to make iran a decent place for all iranians until and unless we value iran above all things and work for the sake of the country rather than ideology, religion, if jews want or don't want a home land, or anything else. All other things, pro this or anti that, are only diversions and cover ups for hidden personal agendas. We have enough on our hands that bringing up unrelated issues for this or against that is by itself a treason towards the country (for those who believe in iran being a country with her own unique identity and deserving more than being subjugated to islamic dictatorship) and crime against some two hundred youths that are waiting on death row in iran at any given time. Even the people in iran is sick of seeing their so-called government beating their chest for the palestinians while robbing and oppressing iranians, and often react by saying "what about us?". Who cares about this and that or anything else when iran is doomed and iranians are under 3 decades of oppression.

The unfortunate

The fact that Israelis and Americans with their political agenda have aligned themselves with the Iranians who disconnected themselves from the Iranian people inside Iran, is the most unfortunate. If it were not so, then the Iranians would unify regardless of their political views, once there was a non Iranian present making a case based on "their" agenda and benefits, which can never be better than an Iranian who knows and cares for Iran. Care might be the key word, which those non Iranians can never have! 

Just a thought 

20/20, Persian Literature, will you please explain & let me know

This is driving me crazy and I am bad with puzzles.

They labored the mosque with
by 20/20 (not verified) on Fri Feb 13, 2009 08:23 PM PST

They labored the mosque with "one" dome and "two" minarets. I leave it to your imagination what it resembles and represents.

would you please explain for those who want to add to their knowledge. Thanks.

Abarmard & NP Who wrote the following Poems?

O Mullah, we (people) do much more work than you,
Even when we are drunk, we are still more sober than you,
You drink people's blood and we drink the grape's blood [wine],
Let's be fair, which one of us is more immoral?

Or This one:

Dear, Persian Literiture, you are 100% correct. Thank you! 

NP: thank for the

NP: thank for the laugh.

I've read your views on many blogs and I find your agenda morally appalling and deceptive. So, I'm not going to waste my time treating your propaganda as serious debate.

However, I must admit I somehow envy you. Simple mindedness must be such a reassuring way of perceiving reality. You live in this one-dimensional and comforting universe. And obviously in that comforting little universe of yours you and your ilk are always right.

You are a hopeless reactionary, but you spend your time on the IC blogs proclaiming your ineffable and eternal state of ideological well-being. How could that be? If you are so satisfied with your superior world-views, why waste your time preaching diversity?

The Quran/Islam did not bring anything new. You can't contribute or give something that you don't have.

A Christian Waraqa Bin Nawful wrote it, and a few of the "ayat" were actually Arabic poetry that pre-dated the so-called holy book.
//wais.stanford.edu/Iran/iranandislam.htm

Don't bother responding because you have shown in the past that there is no possibility of dialogue, debate, disscusion with you. You keep singing the same jingles and

I suggest changing your name if you want to waste other peoples time...I have read too many of your quasi-intellectual, self-serving harangues to fall into your circuitous trap.

You got it...

I knew you would!

To the islamist cloaked in Persian Name:

What is so islamic about Hafez talking about "may", "love", "saaghi", "saaghar" and never about "osooleddin" or "forooeddin".

Where in the heart of islamic world (mecca, medina, najaf, karbala) do you see music boxes carved into structures next to a major mosque as in shah's [sorry Emam's] mosque in Isfahan, or serving of wine depicted and painted on the walls as in Chehelsotoon, or dancing girls chalked on buildings as in Hashtbehesht, or hunting scenes carved into ivory and sold just outside the sheikh lotfollah mosque in isfahan; all considered unislamic never to be found in the heart of islamic world? What is this influence which is brushed aside in every step of the way.

As for IRI, Changiz Khaan also ruled iran for a long long time, albeit with an iron fist. Was shah willing to kill as many as IRI killed, he would have been able to rule for a much longer time. The snow ball is just forming against IRI, so don't read too much into this authenticity of IRI as 30 years is long compared to the life of a person, but only a blink of an eye in span of history. IRI can fool some of the people some of the time, but cannot fool all of the people all the time.

another irony about our "aryans" (to NP)

NP, Another irony is that some of the pro Israeli extremists are fully in bed with these right wing "aryan" Iranians. The very same "aryan" hamvatan of ours who call many of us "arab parast", "ommati", "sayyed" etc., because we don't like their prince charming (Reza2).

abarmard

well said! it's hard to understand why the islamic content of iranian culture is being so pointlessly denied by some.

ancient iran fell so easily to the arab invasion precisely because of its rigid and inhuman caste system. harking back to pre-islamic iran like some kind of heaven on earth is simply a self-indulgent fantasy.

yes we should extract what was best about ancient iran, and do the same with the islamic period.

the puritan project to deny iran's diversity is a little scary, and it is no surprise that it seems to be perpetrated mainly by the extreme right. they tend to be like that: fantasizing about racial purity (that stupid 'aryan' thing), religious purity (true 'aryans' are 'only zoroastrians', if not actually said, then inferred), language purity - and the fantasy list goes on to construct a notion of 'iranianism' that is more like comedy than anything resembling iran. except it's not funny.

what IS funny is how they don't seem to ever tire themselves out. perhaps it gives meaning to their lives to imagine that they have a cause, and to spend their time dissing 'leftists' and 'IRI apologists' or posting videos of deposed dead fascists as romantic 'reminiscence'.

try telling them that the IRI in fact IS iran, and they act like you just invented the IRI out of thin arab air and dumped it on poor innocent defenceless aryan zoroastrians who were completely caught unaware! 

to 20/20: now you explain it so we get it too

baba jan, zajremoon nadeh inghadar

I got it: good thoughts,

I got it:

good thoughts, good words, good deeds

To: Persian Literature: baba

To: Persian Literature:

baba jan, zajremoon nadeh inghadar. At least, give me a hint! lol