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Who should apologize?
12-Feb-2009
If there is anyone who must apologize to the Iranian people, it is first and foremost Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his four year regime of economic collapse, corruption, executions and more suppression of Iran's civil society activists.
Like most Iranians but only more so, I have lived with the sad history of US and the British involvement in the coup against the democratically elected government of Dr. Mohammad Mossadeq. In many ways, our history either begins with Cyrus the Great or Mossadeq. The latter is very dear to me, not just because my fa ther was his personal attorney, but because the more I read about him and his vision for Iran, the more I believe in the democratic values he upheld: a free press, an independent country based on social justice involving a fair distribution of wealth. Like many Iranians, I wish that history could be reversed.
But the Islamic regime is far from all of that, especially under Ahmadinejad's presidency. Almost four years ago, just returned from Iran after seeing the bad, the good and the ugly under the Islamic regime, I had the misfortune of going to the Hilton in New York City and attending Ahmadinejad's speech to the “wonderful Iranians living in the US.” He had just been elected as president. Anyone with the slightest inkling of how the officials of this regime behave could see right through him. One could hear the ramblings of a street-smart fellow, a preacher engaged in demagoguery rather than a statesman ready to lead his country's administration. When I got up and asked Mr. Larijani, now speaker of Majlis and then head of Iran's nuclear program, why not a single street or an alley bore the name of the man who dedicated his life to defending his nation against the British and the U S, he reluctantly said “Mossadeq is in our hearts,” and in the next breath uttered the name of Ayatollah Kashani.
Iranians know how history unfolded: Kashani, a cleric who would become Khomeini's idol, turned his back on Mossadeq and, by all accounts, collaborated with the coup organizers. In fact, he was one of the first to congratulate the corrupt government that emerged from Mossadegh's overthrow. A highway in Tehran is named after him. There is a street in the name of Bobby Sands, who was a member of the Irish Republican Army and even E.G. Browne, the famous British Orientalist who sympathized with the Iranian constitutionalists, But not a single little alley in all of Iran bears the name of Mohammed Mossadeq. The Shah and, subsequently, Khomeini and the Islamic Republic were always scared of his long shadow cast by his legacy in the form of his continued popularity among many Iranians.
Thus, when Ahmadinejad speaks of "60 years of US crimes in Iran” and the coup against the nationalist regime, he sounds less than authentic. He and his regime have never uttered the name of the man responsible for the oil nationalization, whose government was in fact toppled for that reason. Ahmadinejad keeps using old-style rhetoric to enflame people's sentiments against the US and to rally them behind his failed economic and social programs. His pre-election campaign rhetoric, “a man of the people” is now just an empty slogan. His administration has included some of the most corrupt and criminal people since the inception of the Islamic regime.
As Ahmadinejad knows full well, during the Clinton Administration, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright did apologize to the Khatami government for the US role in the coup. I believe that apology was sufficient and should have been accepted. But we all know that the regime in Tehran has lived by and uses such rhetoric and crisis making to shout that everything is the fault of the US or their British counterparts. There are historical instances where both countries interfered in Iran's affairs. Especially under Republican administrations, the U.S. has done major damage to US- Iran relations. Yet no one can deny that in Iran, the most fundamental rights have been violated by the Islamic regime rather than the Americans or the British. Iranian journalists, students, and women activists are indiscriminately harassed and incarcerated by the Islamic authorities, not by foreign governments. The same holds true for the recent shutting down of Shirin Ebadi's office.
We must therefore take responsibility for our own actions and deeds and not blame “foreign agents” for all the malaise in our society. This begins with the recognition that if it were not for the involvement of Iranians, the 1953 coup would never have succeeded.
If there is anyone who must apologize to the Iranians people it's the current regime in Tehran, having inflicted unprecedented harm to the nation for thirty years now. Today, it is trying to erase evidence of what is perhaps its most heinous crime, the execution of thousands of prisoners without trial, by destroying Khavaran Cemetery, the mass burial site of these hapless victims.
President Obama has offered the olive branch without preconditions, and I do think he means it— even if the regime in Tehran m ay want to believe otherwise.
The people of the United States elected a new president, and have demanded change. Once the Iranians choose a new president in June, the regime should put aside the old slogan of “Marg bar America” (Death to America) and turn a new page as well. I believe both peoples deserve a change of attitudes, and need it more than ever. It is time for Iranians and Americans to welcome a new relationship between the US and Iran based upon mutual respect, friendship, economic benefit and cultural exchange. The tit for tat must stop. The past is only lessons in history. It is time for a fresh start in the long and murky US-Iran relationship.
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Influenced: yes; shaped by: no.
by Persian Literature (not verified) on Sat Feb 14, 2009 09:57 AM PSTAbarmard: Yes iranian literature was influenced by islamic culture, but the two are NOT the same, and are often in conflict. In fact, the conflict that we see today between "iranians" and "islamists" are indeed 1400 years old, separating intellectuals and fanatics for the early days of islam.
Any culture is influenced by its surroundings, let alone when the influencer is at home; Iranian culture today is even influenced by american and european cultures and pop music as well.
But it is a mistake (and an insult to those great men) to refer to likes of Hafez and Rumi as mullas preaching islamic culture simply because the dress code of their time looked like mullas or because they preached some (higher) values. Most of these men were intellectual militants of their times and most had problem with the commoners and challenged traditional mullas around them.
Where in Hafez's divan do you see him praising allah or mohammad or ali (or omar or othman), while he continuously talks about unpopular concepts of his time.
Rumi was a great teacher, but sufism that he preached was in conflict with traditional islam, either sunnism or shiasm. In fact even today shia IRI suppresses sufism: it was few months ago that they destroyed few khaneghahs that were being used for sufi gatherings. There are many examples in his mathnavi of challenging the traditional islam, e.g., when he preaches that you should take care of your neighbor instead of going to "Hajj", or when he dismisses "amr be marouf va nahy az monkar" as none of your business, and so on and so forth.
So what they preached were influenced by islam but was far from qualifying as islamic culture per se, let alone a fanatic islam that we see and often talk about today.
20/20: see what that structure of a dome and two minarets on its two sides mirrors. That is a quiz!
Abarmard: Please provide
by Abardard (not verified) on Sat Feb 14, 2009 09:03 AM PSTAbarmard: Please provide reference and sources to your outlandish assertion. Until then, you've further damaged your reputation as a basiji. Do all basiji resort to revisionist history? Do all basiji live in a bubble like you??
I hope you realize that unsubstantiated, easily refutable arguments, which are steeped in fundamentalist worldview can only ring true to your mullah-indoctrinated zombfied brethern. Don't think you can get away with nonsens like this outside of your sphere of influence. Many Iranians inside Iran know their history and have never bought the mullah version of history. Your porpaganda will not realties of Islam.
Persian Literature
by Abarmard on Sat Feb 14, 2009 08:38 AM PSTI agree with Daryush about the Islamic influence. I am not at all familiar with the Iranian "social" culture in pre Islamic era, but I am certain that many of that flavor is embedded with the Islam that we know today. Many schools of thought were based on that thought including Sufism, which is not fully Islam but certainly aligned with the philosophy of Shia Islam.
Islam is not one entity, it has shaped and reformed itself based on the dominant culture. So perhaps that is not as clear for many readers here and they confuse the word Islam with the product of a culture: Social relationships, music, philosophy, architecture, Poetry and story telling, etc.
Rumi was a Mullah on a Manbar. Sa'di was a Mullah, Hafiz was one too, based on the standards today but not then! and that's the key to understand the argument. Sufism in Iran was shaped based on the religion that became dominant under Iranian norms. The beautiful city of Isfahan is based on Islamic "Culture".
Similar to India, Iran was a caste system that after Islam it was revolutionized. Once castes were gone, general population became "educated" based on the standards of 1000 years ago. That is the main reason that Science/Technology and philosophy grew dramatically after Islam in the Greater Iran. Education now was not for the kings alone. That is history.
These are the positive attributes, and there are many negative also that is argued here daily. Would Sa'di, Hafiz, Rumi, Attar and like exist if Iran was not Islamic? Don't know. Is that important? Don't know. But that's our past and history. We shouldn't package something without knowing what are its variables and how they shaped our culture as we know today, or we'll be lost.
This certainly is not a topic to cover in a comment section.
monarchist apologists?
by Anonym7 (not verified) on Sat Feb 14, 2009 06:36 AM PSTKadivar, I agree with you that there are some people who are IRI apologists. How about the Monarchist apologists? Those of you guys who are propping up Reza2, knowing and justifying that he is an American/Israeli puppet manipulated by some of the most extremist political forces (AIPAC and neocons).
What Bakhtiar Would Have Told Mahmoud ! ;0)
by Darius Kadivar on Fri Feb 13, 2009 09:37 PM PSTMahmoud's Hypocrisy and that of IRI apologists Exposed already back in 1984.
How True it Rings today ...
Khomeiny's Arrival and his Religious COUP :
IRAN HARGUEZ NAKHAHAD MORD -Shapour Bakhtiar
My Opinion too,
DK
They labored the mosque with
by 20/20 (not verified) on Fri Feb 13, 2009 08:23 PM PSTThey labored the mosque with "one" dome and "two" minarets. I leave it to your imagination what it resembles and represents.
would you please explain for those who want to add to their knowledge. Thanks.
FYI/BCC's John Simpson Visits Ahmadinejad's Hometown
by Darius Kadivar on Fri Feb 13, 2009 07:54 PM PSTIran's president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is famous for his anti-Western rhetoric, calling America the great Satan.
But in recent weeks US President Barak Obama has urged Iran to unclench its fist.
As the country celebrates the 30th anniversary of the Islamic revolution, the BBC's John Simpson travels to Mr Ahmadinejad's hometown to find out more about the man.
//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7889856.stm
Incorrect
by Persian Literature (not verified) on Fri Feb 13, 2009 04:43 PM PSTDaryush said:
Islamic Culture my friend is what you read when you open the Hafiz and Sa'di book. When you see an old Iranian architecture or a mosque. It's not only Qoran or Mohammad, but an adjusted civilization that diverted the thoughts to its own culture. That's what it is. My Friend, Sa'di was a Ommati based on Fred. Rumi was a Mullah that P Craig disgracefully puts down as if it was Clinton's bitch.
You should really re-read persian literature from the same people that you claim to propagate islamic culture, and get to know what their time looked like. Almost all of them were very verse in islamic affairs, and almost all of them viewed it, as Hafez put it, "dokkane tazvir-o riya" (shop of lies and deception).
I am not arguing about good or evil of islamic culture here, but your claim of relating it to persian culture and literature is totally incorrect.
Hafez continuously talks about "may", "saaghi", "saaghar", and longs for "deir-e moghan". He opens his book by asking for wine to be poured in followed by praise of love ("ala ya ayyohal saaghi..."), not with the name of god or mohammad as was practiced by his more junior predecessors. He was demonized as unislamic by mullas of his time and he responded that "he had Qoran memorized" and does not need islamic lessons from anyone. He tells mullas to shut up essentially but politely. Ruler of shiraz at his time was a fanatic religious character not very different from khomeini in brutality.
Rumi continuously ridicules islamic sharia laws although he believes deeply in almighty. Mullas of his time demonized him when he opened his Mathnavi, not with the name of god, but with the sound of music only to speak of love as prime manifestation of god.
Khayyam was not allowed to be burried in moslim cemetry due to his continuous redicule of mullas and saying that the truth was something else other than what we know as islam, christianity, ....
Sa'di, although praises the Prophet, deplores mullas and expresses in many places that moslim, "gabr" (zoroasterian), "tarsaa" (christians), etc. are equal in the eyes of the creator.
Ferdowsi, opens his shahnameh in the name of god, but an exact translation of ahura-mazda, or god of soul and wisdom (jaan va kherad), rather than allah or like.
....
So as you see, these people were far far ahead of their times and in hidden ways did not believe in any of the mambo jumbo that we take as sacred hundreds of years later.
And one more thing: you spoke of mosques and architectures. Have you ever wondered why mosques are the way they are? Let me give you a hint: Persians were talented in arts and when islam was forced upon them, they were moslims during the day (to make a living and avoid heavy taxation) and zoroasterians at night for a few centuries. They labored the mosque with "one" dome and "two" minarets. I leave it to your imagination what it resembles and represents.
So it is time to re-read persian culture and history with a non-religious eye to see what those wise men really wanted to inspire.
to programmer craig
by akbar khosh-pashm (not verified) on Fri Feb 13, 2009 03:02 PM PSTI'm not writing under any name but this one. Ask the moderators or JJ to check my IP. You have my permission.
Big duhhh! that doesn't prove anything! People can have access to mutiple computers with diffent IPs! It is the style, syntax, and just a feeling that sometimes people get. Having said that, I am not suggesting anything about you, since I am not familiar with your writing personally.
lol
by SamSamIIII on Fri Feb 13, 2009 03:01 PM PSTthis frustrated Ommatie must be the twin brother/sister of sister anti zionist ;), ...looool....I,m glad the term Ommatie is no longer addressed as a "Samsam invention" ..the sooner Ommaties realize , they are buncha Ommaties , the easier & shorter the rehabilitation & Iranization process ::))...but drop the Iranian name and go with the native nicknames , like yasser or hamdoon , it,s too early , once cured , may be...heeh!!!!!
//www.iranianidentity.blogspot.com/
Mammad, Every time
by Farhad Kashani on Fri Feb 13, 2009 02:58 PM PSTMammad,
Every time you write, it becomes more clearer to us why young people in this country have no clue about politics and how it work in real life, because apparently, they have some shortsighted, filled with hate leftists who have been living under a rock for the last 30 years like you, analyzing politics for them.
1- Are you serious? You must be joking! Are you saying Shah supposed to have been in the streets holding a rifle? I mean do you have any idea how absurd you sound? Who became the King as result of the coup? Shah!! So, it was Shah’s coup! Why is that hard for you to understand? Furthermore, didn’t you beloved Khomeini fly back from Paris to hijack the revolution in 1979? Did Khomeini have to be on the streets fighting? Come one man!
2- One would assume as an instructor you would actually be doing some research, but I guess you’re too busy perpetuating propaganda. Recently, and trust me, one day it will come out soon, Libya stated that IRI paid them lump some of money to bomb the airplane. Since Libya took it, it cannot really blame anyone else, but the reality is IRI is the brain behind the attack. Watch and mark my word, the truth is coming out soon.
3- You make things up as you go on! None of that is true. There is no comparison between MKO and Al Qaeda. There is a worldwide war on Al Qaeda, it is you guys in the IRI who have made “looloo khorkhoreh” out of MKO to cover up your own atrocities. IRI is intertwined with Al Qaeda. That also will be revealed. Wait.
4- Now we’re getting to the point! I told you before, I want us as a nation to take responsibility for our own actions, good and bad, that’s how successful nations do it. it hurts to say, but I agree with you on this. The 1953 coup is SOLELY and Iranian coup, and Hezbollah is responsible for whats going on in Lebanon. But comparing that coup to what Hezbollah is doing is not a realistic or fair comparison. I’m sure you know my opinion on Hezbollah. They are a puppet group created by the IRI, NOT TO FREE LEBANON, but to work as IRIs global fundamentalist movement wing. The ultimate goal of Hezbollah and Hamas is not to free Lebanon or Palestine, rather, to establish an Islamic State, which means, that’s what they are fighting for. Maybe you need to, for example, read their charter, or even read IRIs constitution. You don’t have to take it from me. U
to Darysuh
by akbar khosh-pashm (not verified) on Fri Feb 13, 2009 02:37 PM PSTIslam=backwardness
Wherever there is a a country with a major moslem population, you see backwardness, oppression, and disregard of human rights for everyone, including men. So no matter how some people try to glaze it, islam is bad news. Look at Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistam , Saudi Arabia, etc,...
Combine Islamic laws, plus some seriously backwards tribal, or local costumes, and you see disaterous living conditions, that you see in Afghanistan, Sudan, Iraq, ...
good observation Irandokht!
by Anonym7 (not verified) on Fri Feb 13, 2009 02:37 PM PSTNow Mammad has two clowns on his tail, although I must admit that it appears PC has been rewired or his CPU, or CPU fan replaced, ..., he is behaving more civilized than before and the frequency of his tantrums are reduced.
Daryush
by Kaveh Nouraee on Fri Feb 13, 2009 02:15 PM PSTIslam is the new Christ? Well, seeing that the story of Christ has been described as a Jewish fairy tale, I don't think you'll go very far in making your point if you stick to that particular notion.
Our culture, Persian/Iranian culture, is greater, richer, and deeper than anything Islamic. Furthermore it dates back to more than a thousand years before Jesus, and Mohammad wasn't even born until 570 A.D.
What sucks is neither our history, nor our culture, but what has been done to it.
Kaveh
by Daryush on Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:52 PM PSTI am sick of fearful eyeranians here letting these tiny minds talk their daily dose of none sense. Enough is enough. You want to say my culture and history sucks? The hell with you, prove yours is better.
I' ll take medication after you shave that ugly mustache, a disgrace to an Iranian man. Be a man not a joker.
Fred
by Daryush on Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:49 PM PSTI guess you had nothing to say now. Tell me couple of your ommati jokes.
Kaveh Nouraee
by Daryush on Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:46 PM PSTLike it or not, Islam is the new Christ. It's here to stay. The Christian (and newly formed Jewish) supremacy groups have thought the middle eastern a lot after so many years/centuries. Islamic culture my friend is what you see when you go to Iran during Moharram. Islamic Culture my friend is what you read when you open the Hafiz and Sa'di book. When you see an old Iranian architecture or a mosque. It's not only Qoran or Mohammad, but an adjusted civilization that diverted the thoughts to its own culture. That's what it is. My Friend, Sa'di was a Ommati based on Fred. Rumi was a Mullah that P Craig disgracefully puts down as if it was Clinton's bitch. Respecting my past is the most important thing to me. Those Iranians who put themselves down, are doing just that.
IR doesn't translate, and should not be related to what Iranians have become in the past centuries, with many sad and also glorious history. Islamic culture my friend is not wearing hejab or punishments, as it's seen historically in all religions. It's the warmth that you feel when you go home to dinner with friends and family. Something that you will not see in here (or US) as you would there. That's Islamic Culture with the Iranian Seasoning. Get it?
Daryush
by Kaveh Nouraee on Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:41 PM PSTIf I were a physician, I would write a prescription for you to get a high colonic. In the meantime, eat more fiber.
An observation
by IRANdokht on Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:39 PM PSTAs an observer of this exchange all I can see is that Fred is insisting that he knows who other members are and what their ideology is, despite their own opinions and actions!!!
Now that is skewed big time (zoori keh nist!).
I wish I could put this as delicately as Marge normally does... Fred, I am suspecting that you have a man crush on Mammad,
and it seems like you have found a couple of competitions here too.
Nice to see you PC!
;-)
IRANdokht
Kaveh Nouraee
by Daryush on Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:27 PM PSTYes, it's your responsibility as a citizen, if you care to find out. The large section of the CIA office that monitors media and news circulation. Is it accidental that you don't hear "stuff" that you should? How many news sources in this country truly operate? Not news media, but sources. I don't care for Hollywood Zionist movies, never did, maybe you should open your eyes.
What about Israel? Well Zion and P Craig for one. It's as if you say what about IR?
Criminals are criminals. Khalkhali was one, many IR personell are also and Bush, Cheney and Israeli regime is too. That my friend is the deal. P Craig is not here for his love to Iran. By the time I am done with him, he'll know that jobs such as his are disgrace to humanity.Man khodam khatm e ruzegaaram.
running out of gas P craig?
by Daryush on Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:20 PM PSTNeed a recharge? Your anti Muslim racism is enough to discredit your arguments.In the near future there would be term that Zionists use to hide their crime (Anti Semite) for Muslims and then you would go to jail for your harsh tone and behavior. You are a dianasour of Bush's GOP. Dude Hossain is the President, get wid et.
There was a time that I took you serious and "discussed" with you real issues, now it's enough to expose the criminals and terrorist supporters who supported Bush, Cheney and Israeli governements. That's you. President Hossain should be a clear message to you and your kind.
Isn't it late in Israel? or did you switch to night shift?
Why can't we do the same as Iranians
by whynot? (not verified) on Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:16 PM PSTInstead of all this bickering like looneys day in and day out on IC , all of us Iranians should do the same thing as the Brits.
London Protest for a Secular Europe
Brett, February 12th 2009, 11:33 pm
No Vatican interference in politics
Stop the Pope’s crusade against women’s and gay rights
London, UK
Protest
Saturday 14 February 2009
Meet @ 2 PM outside the Natural History Museum
Cromwell Road, London SW7 5BD (near the corner with Exhibition Road)
March to the Italian Embassy in Grosvenor Square for a rally.
Saturday’s protest in London is in support of a simultaneous protest taking place in Rome, which is demanding that the Vatican end its interference in Italian politics.
“This demonstration is demanding that the Vatican stop meddling in politics and abusing its power to oppose human rights. We also want the Italian government to cease kow-towing to the Pope’s theocratic agenda,” said Peter Tatchell of the LGBT human rights organisation OutRage!, who is scheduled as a keynote speaker at the rally outside the Italian Embassy.
“Our aim is a secular Europe, where people are free to practice their faith but where no religion has privileged legal status and unique access to political power and influence.
“We are appalled by the Pope’s repeated attacks on the rights of women and gay people and by his wilful opposition to life-saving condom provision. The Italian government too often allows itself to be bullied by the Vatican, on issues such as same-sex civil marriage and sex education in schools.
“If Catholics suffer discrimination I will be the first to defend them. Equally, when the Pope supports discrimination against women and gay people I will be the first to oppose him. That is the difference between me and the Pope. I oppose all discrimination, including against Catholics. He supports sexist and homophobic discrimination whenever it suits his intolerant interpretation of the Christian faith,” said Mr Tatchell.
Saturday’s protest is endorsed by the British Humanist Association, OutRage!, the Gay and Lesbian Humanist Association and many others.
This demo will be in solidarity with the demonstration happening at the same time in Rome against the Vatican’s manipulation of Italian, European and world-wide politics.
//www.facciamobreccia.org/london
Daryush
by Kaveh Nouraee on Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:07 PM PSTI just read what you posted, and I'm wondering if you really believe this pile of garbage you just wrote or is this your idea of a practical joke?
"No news gets past the CIA?"
Man, you are watching way too many spy thriller movies. Try a comedy, because based upon this verbal sludge you just posted, you clearly have a sense of humor.
And what is this obsession with Israel? You are aware that there are anti-stalking statutes on the books, aren't you?
Yes, there are one billion Moslems and the numbers are growing. So what? Is that statement designed to be a subtle form of intimidation towards either non-Moslems, or secular Moslems who don't adhere to the ideology of this bullshit regime?
Iranians inside Iran today are increasingly unschooled in Iranian history. More than 25% of the population is 15 years of age or younger. The median age of Iranians as of last year is 26. That's after the revolution, pal. A revolution where these animals have done everything possible to completely erase everything that is Iranian and replace with Islamic.
Islamic culture? Just tell me what the hell is Islamic culture? Is it the culture of violence and bloodlust that Islam has become synonymous with? As for a nuclear Iran, that is still workable, but not in the framework of the IRI. Whether you are referring to nuclear weapons, nuclear civilian energy, or a microwave oven, as long as the IRI continues their irani-baazi on the issue of transparency and verification, forget it.
The US needs to bend for IRI's demand? Bullshit. IRI needs to kiss the ass of the rest of the civilized world in an act of contrition. The IRI is demanding respect, yet hasn't performed a single solitary act in the past 30 years to merit even an ounce of it.
And as for Hezbollah, the "party" will be over before you know it.
Mammad
by programmer craig on Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:05 PM PSTPC, writing under a wide variety of names, took everything out of context in order to score a "victory."
I'm not writing under any name but this one. Ask the moderators or JJ to check my IP. You have my permission.
Interesting you try to assassinate my character now, isn't it? Nice argumentation from the pro-IRI crowd.
Tele-Haji
by Fred on Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:04 PM PSTWhat did Mossadegh say to Shayegan about appointing your likeminded Bazargan to the post of minister of education? Oh yah the old sage of Ahmadabad knew Islamists, even the Western educated ones, didn’t he say the first thing Bazargan would do is to put chador on school girls? And after receiving order from Mossadegh didn’t your guru Bazargan first went to a Mullah, who was it, Kashani, don’t remember exactly, to bibliomancy about his trip to Abadan to take over from the Brits? Khodeti haji!
Fred
by Daryush on Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:03 PM PSTDid I hear you say Mossadegh? Are you saying that you are pro Mossadegh? the same one that the NON muslims and NON Ommatis had a coup to over throw? They same Mossadegh that by the actions of your supported team members has brought Iran the gift of the Islamic Republic? How come you never mentioned that you are pissed at the US to do that to Iran? You learn something new every day.And here I was thinking that you just love Israel and hate everything else.
This is totally different
by programmer craig on Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:01 PM PSTThis is totally different from the report that my colleague prepared, reaching exactly the same conclusion.
:D
And still no evidence from Mammad? I told you, I'm not going to ask again. A report paid for by the IRI that makes accusations is not evidence of illegality. Treaty text, buddy. Article and clause. That's what you needed to come up with, and you didn't.
PS-The link you posted doesn't work.
Fariba: interesting
by Niloufar Parsi on Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:57 AM PSTFariba: interesting article, but a couple of points:
- there is no point writing about your father. it detracts from your arguments
- apology is not an important issue. i don't know if i am missing something here, but who cares about such things other than those who want to raise passions for purely political reasons? if we are looking for justice, there are legal ways of getting that. and if there aren't, we need to create them. but an apology in the context of US-Iran relations or Shah-Iran relations or Mullah-Iran relations is pretty meaningless after all this time and so many events. nobody is innocent, and the US certainly isn't, so what's your point?
mahvareh: i think the reasons why iran does not repeal its membership of the NPT include:
1. it would lose open and legal access to iaea's technology support
2. it would be much easier for the US to attack iran then
3. it could no longer be part of the forces that push for the disarmament of nuclear-powered states - this of course has no chance in hell of actually being implemented, but it does gain iran and other parties to the NPT some political capital.
Peace!
Fredo
by Mammad on Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:56 AM PSTNice barking. Keep it up.
Mammad
I recall his "arguments"
by programmer craig on Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:55 AM PSTI recall his "arguments" many months ago and I tell you
I remember you too! And XerXes, and mammad, and Q... all the usual suspects.
Look at the sites that he quotes that is from an American propaganda machine owned and operated by America's mini me.
Is that the excuse for not being able to back up claims about treaty violations? I wasn't aware that there were multiple versions of UN treaties! Does the UN know? :o
And I notice even you, teh Great Daryush, do not attempt to provide links to any news stories that support this talking point. What's the matter? Are you too embarrassed about the nature of the news outlets that are reporting the story your way?You do realize that anyone here can use google and see what kind of search results they get for your talking points, don't you?
And another thing... how is it that your crew says things that so CLOSELY coincide (I mean, its almost WORD FOR WORD) with what the Islamic Republic is peddling, and you think you can deny being propagandists?
Going ignore all your racist rantings. Been there. Done that. You are what you are, and there's no point trying to counter your hatemongering. Much easier and more effective to just counter your lies.