VIEW

Then

Re: IMF. This person thinks by calling me a "she" that would be an
insult. I have news for him/her: my mother is a "she". I have no problem
with women. I Just happen to be a dude.

PS: I am not a Christian. For goodness sake I am a frigging PROPHET!

Then it is you who keep lying on IC! You keep changing your stories!

;-)

NP

Re: IMF. This person thinks by calling me a "she" that would be an insult. I have news for him/her: my mother is a "she". I have no problem with women. I Just happen to be a dude.

PS: I am not a Christian. For goodness sake I am a frigging PROPHET!

NP

I am not sure what your point is. Mine is very simple: there is a difference between a nation and a government. Iran has been around for thousands of years and I hope will be for many thousands more. In this time it has had many governments. They come and they go but the nation remains. This is not an ideological statement.

Regarding "unity". How about this suggestion: IRI stops executions and the diaspora go into hyper gear to stop any attacks. We are already doing what is possible. However a moritoruim on executions will sure make it a lot simpler. It is a better approach than people having dinner at CASMII with AN. Plus it might save a few lives right now.

Re: peace; yes I am all for it. Start with banning the death penatly.

vpk

actually it is there in the name so why complicate matters? the islamic republic of iran has a government. that would be the government of the islamic republic of iran.

you cannot say i will vote against the islamic republic of iran.

but you can i will vote against the government of islamic repulic of iran. 

the rest of the argument is just claims versus counterclaims. i don't have the time.

Peace

Nilou

sometimes you sound like a religious convert... are you one?

You bet VPK is a convert! Although she is disgrace to Christianity as much she was to Islam as a bigotted fascist!

;-)

veiled

You keep repeating the same crap over and over.  You can't prove a point by lying and making up historical facts. write the references to your claims! 

Let me guess! You don't have any.

shazde thanks

merci SAM khan I never knew the whole ghasideh

And i'm going to save it and send it around.   

it is true "khar ro did kado ra nadid".       Maziar

PS: the whole story is much longer, and even more educational

//ganjoor.net/moulavi/masnavi/daftar5/sh59/

نیلی موشه: شما ذکر هسته ای رو دیدید ولی‌ از کدو غافلید (مولوی)

یک کنیزک یک خری بر خود فکند

از وفور شهوت و فرط گزند

آن خر نر را بگان خو کرده بود

خر جماع آدمی پی برده بود

یک کدویی بود حیلت‌سازه را

در نرش کردی پی اندازه را

در ذکر کردی کدو را آن عجوز

تا رود نیم ذکر وقت سپوز

گر همه کیر خر اندر وی رود

آن رحم و آن روده‌ها ویران شود

خر همی شد لاغر و خاتون او

مانده عاجز کز چه شد این خر چو مو

نعل‌بندان را نمود آن خر که چیست

علت او که نتیجه‌ش لاغریست

هیچ علت اندرو ظاهر نشد

هیچ کس از سر او مخبر نشد

در تفحص اندر افتاد او به جد

شد تفحص را دمادم مستعد

جد را باید که جان بنده بود

زانک جد جوینده یابنده بود

چون تفحص کرد از حال اشک

دید خفته زیر خر آن نرگسک

از شکاف در بدید آن حال را

بس عجب آمد از آن آن زال را

خر همی‌گاید کنیزک را چنان

که به عقل و رسم مردان با زنان

در حسد شد گفت چون این ممکنست

پس من اولیتر که خر ملک منست

خر مهذب گشته و آموخته

خوان نهادست و چراغ افروخته

شادمانه لاجرم کیفر چشید

در میان خانه آوردش کشان

خفت اندر زیر آن نر خر ستان

هم بر آن کرسی که دید او از کنیز

تا رسد در کام خود آن قحبه نیز

پا بر آورد و خر اندر ویی سپوخت

آتشی از کیر خر در وی فروخت

خر مؤدب گشته در خاتون فشرد

تا بخایه در زمان خاتون بمرد

بر درید از زخم کیر خر جگر

روده‌ها بسکسته شد از همدگر

دم نزد در حال آن زن جان بداد

کرسی از یک‌سو زن از یک‌سو فتاد

صحن خانه پر ز خون شد زن نگون

مرد او و برد جان ریب المنون

مرگ بد با صد فضیحت ای پدر

تو شهیدی دیده‌ای از کیر خر

NP

I will just address a few. 

• IRI is not Iran. That's right. IRI is the "government of Iran". I explained this enough for anyone who paid attention to understand. What part of this is not clear?
• CASMII is a waste of time. What do they acheive while IRI is executing 3 at a time. What do you think the "enemy" is going to say? Oh, IRI is real cuddly. Just 3 at a time!
• A fifth column is a group living in a nation and working against it. That pretty much defines the West residing; West hating types who oppose everything it stands for yet live there. You people put other Iranians in a very bad situation.
• Some of us have done a lot more for Iran than you know. We bring trade and reconcilliation. Not all of us; yest there are those who call for war. I don't. But your side sure makes my job more difficult. 

vpk

your statements:

'IRI is NOT Iran.' 

ok, which country is the islamic republic of iran then? pls enlighten us.

'Having a CASMII gathering is a waste of time and money.'

who is going to organize against sanctions and war instead? who has proven to be committed to it? why belittle and undermine such a positive movement?

'IRI is not Iran. No more than Pahlavi or Ghajar or any other government.'

actually iri is not a government, the same way that the usa is not a government, or the islamic republic of pakistan is not either. the government of iran is the government of iri. the constitution of iran, the one that iranians voted for, determines the name of the country. you want to change it, you have my full support. but until it is changed, the constitution is what it is. playing with words in a deceptive manner like you do is not the basis of a freedom movement. it is simple misnformation. 

'They are here as a "fifth column". So that when Imam Madi shows up they
can make him feel at home. Or to cause dissent and trouble; give the
rest of us a bad name; and generally be a nuisance. Manipulate the
diaspora and their patrotism to help sustain the IRI and its criminals.'

this is just utter garbage! the diaspora - or that section of it that is like you - better get off its spoilt fat arse and do something useful for iran for once instead of prostituting itself and holding iran back. show some gratitude to the land of your ancestors, their culture, and all the POSITIVE things that they strive for.

'Islam is not for Iran or for any sane people.'  yours is an absolutist, extremist, dictatorial language. you are in effect calling most iranians insane. whatever you imagine your intentions to be - i would guess you need emotional readjustment - this kind of tripe just makes you look silly.

Peace

NP

You brought up a bunch of issues and should be open to reading the response. I responded to your points. 

Regarding "unity": how is that achieved when IRI is hanging 3 Iranians at a time. They are not even smart enough to hold off on their terror for a few months to fool us. Murder and executions have become an addiction for the ruling Mullahs. 

If they want unity they can start with:

• Moratorium on executions.
• Permanent band on stoning.

Lets see your side take a step to promote "peace". 

vpk

am afraid you dominate the propaganda discourse here. there is nothing on this earth that a muslim could possibly do right for you.

regardless, this is a debate about iran. no need to bring old arguments into an invitation to unity against foreign threats. this has been a consistent argument of mine.

NP

If you think Islam was accepted by Iran "with open" arms then you either

• Have no knowledge of history. Just the IRI revision
• Are making up things for an agenda.
• Have lost your mind.
• Live in an alternate universe.

I need not go into the obvious and well documented data in detal. In one incident the Arab and Muslims whiped out the whole city of Estakhr. Reason: it resisted them. 

Regarding the USA. In its worst day USA is vastly less destructive than your dear Islamists. Yes 12 people are a lot but not a genocide or even a massacre. In fact most killings in Afghanistan are by Taliban.

No matter: none of this excuses the actions of Arabs who unquestionably tried to destroy Iran. By the sounds of it they particall succeeded. Just read your own postings and those of other IRI supporters on IC.

niloofar farsi, are you out of your mind?

Stop this terroristic and anti american rant. Consider yourself as lucky to have escaped Iran to USA, before the Islamist regime is overthrown. Do you know what people will do to your like after the regime is overthrown??? Do you want to get deported back to Iran, if Iranian or Gaza if arab in an orange jump suit?

BTW, who taught you to write in farsi, naghola :)

vpk

sometimes you sound like a religious convert... are you one?

this is not limited to history. on any given day this week: how many people were killed by 'christian' bombs and how many by 'muslim' ones?

last weekend, in the middle of the worst flooding to hit any country in decades, in the middle of the terror of a third of a country's land area going under water, 20 million people affected, american drones killed 12 people in pakistan.

muslims wouldn't do that. only western savages can commit such crimes in broad daylight and get away with it.

shazdeh jan

Shabe jomas mellat have had a little too much Najessi. Pay no attention.

They won't pass at any opportunity to take you on Boyy! What is cracking there  Playaa?:))

Do tell them Who is daa maan.:)

دالی موشه!

شازده تو که با نمک بودی مثلأ! 

بنده عرض میکنم، "به جای این روضه‌های صد تا یه غاز، برید به اون ارباب‌های کاخ سفیدتون بگین که دست از صدام حسین بازی‌، تروریست پروری‌، آدمکشی و تجاوز
ور دارند، تا لازم نباشه از ترس و لرز هر شب تو بغل موشک سی‌ متری و زیر
بمب صد کیلو تنی  اتمی بخوابند." 

دیدی چقدر راحت بود؟ حالا برو یه چایی دم کن تا دور بعدی. 

ملت ایران یه بار برا هشت سال گول شما رو خورد ولی‌ دیگه نمیخوره

یه مشتی "عالمان" علم سیاست و "خبرگان" امور جهانی‌، هر شب در این سایت جمع میشوند و به بحث و مناظره مینشینند که، "آیا امشب اسرأئیل آخوند‌‌ها رو سرویس میکنه، یا فردا؟"

هدف واقعی‌ این گروه هم خیلی‌ ساده است: "توجیه وجود نکبت اسلامی نما در ایران، و تروریست‌های وابسته به اون‌ در سر تا سر دنیا"!

این جماعت حتی ذره‌ای دلشون به حال مردم ایران نسوخته و نمی‌‌سوزه. فقط مشغول خدمت به ارباب هستند و زمینه سازی برای‌ ظهور حضرت قایم!

البته حضرت "قایم موشک" هم که دیگه تو این دوره و زمونه نمیتونه با لوله هنگ به جنگ کفار بره. لاجرم، این "ابرمردان و شیر دختران" حالا کاملا نقاب از چهره بر داشته اند و غوغای "ایران باید به سلاح هسته‌ای مجهز شود" سر می‌‌دهند.

اما از سر موذی گری، راست و حسینی‌ نمیگند که هدف واقعی‌، تجهیز ملا به بمب اتمه. مزورانه مردم رو میخوان خر کنند که، "ما دلمون به حال ملت ایران می‌‌سوزه، مبادا یهو زیر پای آمریکای جهان خوار لهٔ بشه! کشور ما هم چند تا بمب اتم لازم داره که به حال صدام حسین نیفته."

بنده عرض میکنم، "به جای این روضه‌های صد تا یه غاز، برید به اون ارباب‌های آخوندتون بگین که دست از صدام حسین بازی‌، تروریست پروری‌، آدمکشی و تجاوز ور دارند، تا لازم نباشه از ترس و لرز هر شب تو بغل موشک سی‌ متری و زیر بمب صد کیلو تنی بخوابند."

ملت ایران، از فارس، ترک، کرد، لر، عرب، بلوچ، گیلک ... یه بار برای هشت سال گول شما جنگ طلب‌های دیونه رو خورد ... ولی‌ دیگه نمیخوره!

parsagarda

I am against any religion or ideology being forced,  want it to be by Islam, Reza Shah or Marx.  I have the rights to argue the nonsense and ask for logical answers.  

Can I send a salavat instead of Vodka for cheers?  or I would be violating the western code of conduct.

parsagarda aziz

yes i agree with your sentiments in your comment to vpk and me - and also elsewhere. i may not totally go along with what you describe as 'iranian' or 'not iranian', but that is a separate issue.

beh salamati! :)

Religion

Dear VPK and Dariush,

Religion is a very private thing. Belief in almighty and its miracles is something everyone should feel in their own heart. To force one or another view under the threat of death is just bull. 

As social animals, we need public laws to govern our conduct in society but Islam does not stop at the doors of the mosque. It pushes its way on every thing you do, say and think, often with sever punishment if you cross the line. I may have lived with that type of strict codebook for life if Einstein or Gandhi or Marx were the writers, but in this case a bunch of stupid, Arab wantabe mullahs who can barely tend to their own hygiene sit on the manbar and send people to death because they crossed some stupid Islamic law god knows which sick idiot concocted.

I say keep religion in your own house and keep your hands off others who live within the law. Let God that lives in your heart guide your actions but not the one described by the mullah, priest or rabbi.

veiled

If force was the only factor, Why is it not working today? IRI is forcing people to Islam and it is actually having the opposite affects and people are leaving it.  Your beloved Reza Shah used force to get rid of it, but he couldn't.  Wouldn't it be a good opportunity for people to convert back to Zoroastrianism or some other religions? but instead they resisted Reza Shah's force.  This shows that majority preferred Islam.   Maybe the Islam practiced then was different than what is practiced now and therefore welcomed.

Dariush

• Iranians often faced a choice: death or Islam. Many picked death but guess what: they are not around. Many moved to India: they are the Parsi. Many became Muslims. Not by choice but by force.
• In more benevolent times they faced "jazeeheh" or Islam. You know the huge tax imposed on non Muslims. Again some chose not to pay the tax and became Muslims. 
• Later under Safavi even being a Muslim was not enough. The choice was death or Shia. Result was lots of dead people and lots of Shia Muslims. 

I know you won't get it. But I am not going to let your lies go without a response.

parsagarda

You wrote, Iran and Islam aren't meant for each other.

If they weren't, people wouldn't have converted to Islam from Zoroastrianism. So people must have found something wrong or right with one or another.

I agree that Ahmadinejad should leave the religion to clerics and do a presidents job and take charge and fix the justice system before anything else.  However, that takes a lot of work and convincing on his part with others. 

You wrote, he is power hungry. I disagree.

I don't see him having much power or profiting from it.  

Dariush on Ahmadinejad

Dariush A. What do you think of Ahmadinejad? He sounds to me like a nationalist. Doesn't really want to follow the Mullahs. At time he feels uncomfortable with the push/pull he gets from the akhoonds. But he has no choice but to mind them since they are his most important power block. Similar to Natanyahou and the orthodox wall huggers in Israel.

I see Ahmadinejad as power hungry and Islamic leaning but I also see his nationalistic side. He cares for Iran but he is too lost in Islamist bull to ever be good for Iran. I say this since I feel Iran and Islam are not meant to be together. Any foriegn idea forced on a people under threat of sword is bull. Religion belongs at home not in the public and certainly not as a weapon to legitimize centuries long rape, pillage and murder.

Amir

You correctly point out the West ain't about to collapse. Now regarding the question:

With all the IRI's "improvements and advances" that Abjee Nilou has highlighted, what's stopping such folks from leaving the collapsing western countries for the scientific and technological powerhouse known as the IRI? Cheers  :-)

There could be two reasons:

• They are here as a "fifth column". So that when Imam Madi shows up they can make him feel at home. Or to cause dissent and trouble; give the rest of us a bad name; and generally be a nuisance. Manipulate the diaspora and their patrotism to help sustain the IRI and its criminals. Go to CASMII dinners. And get a big fat check from IRI for being their voice.  
• Because it is more comfortable and free in the West. They get to say what they want and not hang off a crane. Meanwhile watch their fellow Iranians hang to death and support the murderers who do it with no personal risk. The money is good and risk is minimal. Plus they will get to pretend to be journalists and honest people.

Parsagarda

I agree with the point regarding a free government. This time I agree with most of your post.

I have one additional item. A government even the most democratic is not a nation. If a nation's government collapses the nation may and often does survive. A nation speciall an ancient one goes beyond a government. Iran was; is and will be around regardless of IRI or Islam. These are not the same things. That is my point.

As it is, without any

As it is, without any sanctions and despite the looting of other countries resources they are about to collapse. I must add that Shah in such conditions wouldn't have lasted more than a day or two and would have left the country.  I know some in IRI has done terrible things, but It also was IRI that has done many improvements and advances as Niloufar mentioned.

Oh yeah, the "western countries" are about to collapse. Sure they are. But what happens to the IRI Groupies residing in those "western countries" when that collapse occurs? With all the IRI's "improvements and advances" that Abjee Nilou has highlighted, what's stopping such folks from leaving the collapsing western countries for the scientific and technological powerhouse known as the IRI? Cheers  :-)

Pasargada

You have a sound judgment. I agree with just about everything you wrote. However, you also wrote, "but then wipe Iran clean of IRI".

I am more in favor of getting rid of all the criminals in government. IRI or else.  I think there are good and bad in IRI just as there are in the oppositions.  Ahmadinejad is a good example.  

About these statistics, I must say that if any of these western countries were sanctioned, threatened and pressured as Iran has been for the past 31 years, none of them would have lasted more than a few months. As it is, without any sanctions and despite the looting of other countries resources they are about to collapse. I must add that Shah in such conditions wouldn't have lasted more than a day or two and would have left the country.  I know some in IRI has done terrible things, but It also was IRI that has done many improvements and advances as Niloufar mentioned.  So I think the problems are the criminals in either camps.