Iranian of the Day

Dear Divaneh

The migration of "Aryans" to Iran is not a fact but a theory. There are other competing ones. Personally I do not know what really happened and have no idea. I do think there was a large inland lake but that is about it.

Div has multiple meaings:

• One is from the Sanskrit which were a "race of Gods" as opposed to "Asura" which were another race of Gods. In Iran Asura became Ahura and Gods while Diva became Demons. In India the reverse happened. 
• The other may be what you mean which is the pre-Aryan race. This assuming the migration theory is right. Yes they were more advanced. The "white divs" lived in the north probably due to their lighter complexion. While the darker div were in the south for obvious reasons. These got mixed with the "Aryans" and created the Iranians of say 3000-2000 years ago.

I also sometimes wonder if the Div were not in fact the remaining neanderthals. This is purely my own speculation with no basis but a guess.

Anyway getting back to "Aryan" in Sanskrit it means "noble". That does not indicate a race. Of noble lineage may just mean that he was born of a line of rulers. Many nations have "noblemen" who are of the exact same race as the peasants. Just happened to get on the good side of king and be given a title. Hence I do not accept the racial theory of Aryan. I don't think it means much right now other than a historical note. Why do people dig this up for wrongly prove Iranian racism!

Dear Samsam

I hope you don't decide to bring that rock to my house, but if you do please let me know in advance so I can make some room for it.

I am not arguing with the history. You have already made me to move from refusing the Aryan statement by Darius to being undecided and look for reliable translations of the inscriptions. Unfortunately I am not as good as you in reading these haji-majis and need to find the translations. Avesta reference are all about Iranians and I have not seen any talk about Aryan lineage.

I think with exception of that ambiguity we are singing of the same hymn sheet and are both for the unity of Iranians and the celebrations of our diversity. My friend the only thing that I am sensitive to is division and whatever can cause division. Look at our recent history and see how much of our country we have lost as a result of these divisions including the religious difference that separated Afghanistan from us. If not careful we will see other chunks taken off this little cat.

Where is your reference Boosboos?

You can write anything and claim that to be the true translation of the Darius inscriptions. Where is your reference?

Dear VPK

I am not re-writing the history, nor deny the truth, nor have changed my style. I say that there are two different translations of the Naghsh Rostam inscriptions available on the net which unfortunately is my only reference at the moment. One has the phrase "An aryan and of Aryan Lineage" and one hasn't. This can be resolved by having some reliable references from well known institutions but not the claims by Joe Bloggs on the web. This is however only to satisfy our curiosity about the history and does not change anything about today.

I repeat once again that Aryans were the tribes that immigrated to Iran and India. As Samsam explained due to hard winters, food shortage and if I may add, probably over population. The land that they moved to was not inhabited only by lions and zebras. There were inhabitants living in the Iran plateau who were more advanced than the invading Aryans. Shahnameh talks about Divs who thought Iranians many things including writing. These Divs were most probably those inhabitants. So the mixing started right at the beginning. Shahnameh narrated the war between Iranians and Mazandaranis. Another account of war between the invaders and the inhabitants. The history of the old Iran is fascinating but that is where it should stop.

Who are these Aryans that you are defending and what abuse and neglect you are talking about? If you are complaining about the onslaught on the Iranian culture and values by the IRI, then I am 100% with you. But remember that we are all suffering. The Arabs, Turks, Turkmen, Bandaris are all suffering. What we need is unity and not more division. We have to emphasize our commonalities and not our differences.

Why people from young countries like Australia and USA proudly introduce themselves as Australians and Americans irrespective of their race, colour and background, but an Iranian that I meet in a party calls himself an Ahwazi and not Iranian. Some others call themselves Azaris. Is it not the time that we wake up and throw away all these silly ideas and the bigotry that divide us? Are we not a more uniform society than any of those new countries?

How do you know that Boosboos is not an agent of the fake Azarbaijan republic who tries to divide Iranians? How do you know he or she is not paid by the Saudis to help alienate Iranian Arabs further? How do you know he or she is not working for IRI with the objective of dividing the opposition? I give him/her the benefit of the doubt and assume that he is an overzealous nationalist but it does not mean that I stay silent when someone tries to feed us this racist agenda under some dingdong ethnolinguist nonsense.

I hope that we can all refuse to listen to anyone who tries to divide us using race, ethnicity, religion or anything else.

Where have all

the Aryans gone? (rhymes with "where have all the flowers gone :-)

They are still around as so many people said it is not a race. They are integrated into the Iranian and other Iranic cultures in the region.

But of course Nazi; Pan Turks and "Strormfront.org" disagree. To them it means "blond haired; blue eyed and European Christian". No how the heck was Darius any of that I don't know. He may have had the first two features (I don't know; I was not there to see him) but he sure was neither European nor Christian.

We are not kidding anyone most Iranians are of Aryan culture but do not fit the Nazi definitions. The Nazi definition is therefore wrong. It has nothing to do with Iranians. It was just a misuse of the word. As was the misuse of the Swastika. Here is a picture of an ancient necklace adorned with Swastika bearing no relation to either Nazi or antisemitism.

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlik

We must stop allowing Europeans to define us. The Indians have done that. I work with many of them and it is nice to see how they advanced. They went from doing the dirty work of Britain to being a proud powerful nation. Why don't we do the same? Why do we allow the others to define our meaning. I don't give a *** what Nazi or French or British say about Aryan. We must define who we are not them. Or worse let the pan turks do it for us. *** the pan turks we decide who we are.

Parnam, why do Turks & Arabs exist, but not Aryan people?

PARNAM: "Nobody denies there were tribes called Aryans."

<<Great to see you admit it -- the Aryan tribes had babies; what's so hard to understand?  Just like the ancient Arabs that had offspring, the Aryan people also had babies ... why do you insist that Arabs and Turks exist but Aryans don't?  >>

------------------------ 

 PARNAM: "Whether Dariush was part of them [Aryans] or not doesn't matter."

<<Actually it does - it shows that Iranians self-identified as Aryans (something one of your buddies completely denied below).  Moreover, Iranians might want to preserve their national history.  Parnam: do you also go around telling Arabs that it's not important whether Muhammad was also Arab?  Do you also tell the English that it's not important that Shakespeare was English? These are serious questions Parnam - I see you like to dodge questions while telling Iranians to abandon their history: Why don't you do this with Turks or Arabs?>>

------------------- 

PARNAM: "The reality is those [Aryan] tribes don't exist anymore, neither as a race, nor as a language."

<< The reality is that the offspring of the Aryan tribes do exist; the reality is that people have told you 100 times that being Aryan has nothing to do with "RACE" but you keep include that word in (because you're dishonest).  The fact is that the cultural and linguistic traditions of Aryans are still very much a part of Iranians.>> 

------------------- 

Parnam, Why don't Aryan customs or people exist (in your view) but Arabs and Turks do exist?  Can you cite to me a book that shows that Aryans and their customs all moved to the moon and disappeared?     

Aryan represents a culture, more than race, language, religion,

and food.

It means a people who lve life  for the purpose of being noble.

Not to knock any one person in particular but to take a club and whack everyone equally, 

obviously the culture based on being noble is dead today, had it existed strongly enough Iranians would have been able to resist the etrayal of the shah by the west , which was then followed by almost every single political group,

its why I say with contempt for deceitful practices, shame on khaen mullahs, mek, tudeh, jepeh melli and every other group that introduced khomeini to iranians as a saint.

only a noble person can express painful remorse for mistakes, for others, there is no help, not from god, not from fame or wealth.

Some people even imagine they are noble , just because they praise the good of democracy and say they stand for it, where as in practice they never stood for it.

Instead they betrayed the one leader who was candid enough to tell iranans that it will be a process and it wll be the worst thing for iranias if it is started with a mostly illiterate population. 

We hear of the good of democracy mainly by those who are busy listening to Neocolonialists and Traitors to their own people. 

Kind of reminds me of the nazi's that wanted to teach the dutch people the goodness of always saying the truth as they searched their commuities for jews.  

Yeah, I think it's just a terrific Idea to learn for the brits and usa today now that iran has had 33 years of tyranny, the transition will be realistically possible

duhhhhh.  Where is that brain of mine again, where did I leave it?

Dunno, go to the UK or USA you may find it there.

Parham

Well of course those tribes do not exist in their original form. I already said there was "mixing" right from day one. As soon as those "tribes" met other tribes there was mixing. I find it really good and glad to be of "mixed race".

• I am not sure Darius was referring to a race. The meaning of Aryan of 2500 years ago as a race is by no means verified.
• We know that Khashayar Shah wed a Jewish woman for his Queen. Proving race was not a big deal at least to the royal house.
• Who wants to be an inbred human anyway? Pure bred may be good for horses but not for people :-)  

Anyway the problem is that anti-Iranians want to associate Iran with Nazi. That bothers me specially coming from Pan Turks. Iranians have a far better record of racial tolerance. Therefore to hear Pan Turks make fun of Iranians gets me upset. You and I both know who was behind the Armenian Genocide. Their goal is obvious. To demonize Iranians and try to break off Azarbayjan. This is opposed by most Iranians who are from Azarbayjan. Including many of my own family members.

Prophet

Actually, that's a non-issue. Nobody denies there were tribes called Aryans. Whether Dariush was part of them or not doesn't matter.
The reality is those tribes don't exist anymore, neither as a race, nor as a language. That's what the reality is. That's all.

Parham Jan

The issue is the inscription by Darius and whether you dispute it. My quesition to you is: do you dispute the inscription or not? I was not around 2500 years ago so I do not know what he meant but the words are there.

As I said many times before the word has changed its meaning. The idea of race was definitely used by Europeans. I do not know what the ancient Iranians meant; I will rely on SamSam who seems to know more than I do. 

Seems like...

... we have a stronger tradition of schizophrenics than anything else in our country. But oops, that's an "ethno-psychological identity" now, isn't it? Not to be mixed with race or language!

Re: Arya

Once again I don't see why we are even discussing this. Does anyone dispute the Sphinx or Pyramids? It is history and that is the way it is. Sorry if some people don't like it. But that is what happened. 

Darius had it carved just as SamSam says. Are we so PC to deny our history. So what that Nazi misused the name Aryan. It makes no difference in 2500 years ago history. It is very frustrating dealing with with whole argument.

Divaneh

My friend ; even the link you provided me proves my point; GO TO YOUR OWN LINK LINE 13

//www.iranatlas.info/parseh/pe_dtomb1.htm

1. nâm \ xsâyathiya \ ahyâyâ \ bûmi
2. yâ \ vazrakâyâ \ dûraiapiy \ Vistâs
3. pahyâ \ puça \ Haxâmanisiya \ Pârsa \ P
4. ârsahyâ \ puça \ Ariya \ Ariya \ ci
5. ça \ thâtiy \ Dârayavaus

 My dear good friend you cant argue with history , you cant argue with facts no matter how you try to dig up or distort the writings on the wall (literary ;). Short of cutting the whole cliffe and bringing it to your house i cant prove to folks like you & moshiri who have made up your mind that Darius said that .

So i,m gone have to choose not to argue & leave it at that. & yes even Avesta talk extensively about Aryeh Vaeijou, Arya varta the pre-migration  motherland of Aryeh tribes  whom they left(after Iron & copper age) due to long winters & short summers,& shortage of food. Avesta clearly uses airya as an ethnic name where it appears in expressions such as airyāfi; daiŋˊhāvō "Iranian lands, peoples", airyō.šayanəm "land inhabited by Iranians", and airyanəm vaējō vaŋhuyāfi; dāityayāfi; "Iranian stretch of the good Dāityā", from river Oxus all the way to Ural mountains.

You must realize that these post-copper age indoeuropean tribes such as Parsa, Indu, Mada & later Sarmat, Alans, albans, partha, Scythians(Saks), eastGoaths, Iberians inhibited the vast russian stepps from Tagzig lung in Tibbet all the way to todays Bulgaria & Hungaria before the later onslaught of Huns & Magyars who pushed them further west or u;timately absorbed them. Among all these tribes the term Aryan/Aryeh is used in different lingo such as Oir(Alans), Eire(Persians Medes), (Airya)Parthian, Arya(Indu), Eir(Sarmatians) , Vandals(Ir)..

So yes we were once & no longer are but you cant erase what it was. My argument is not about contemporary Iranian but the essence of earlier legacy.

& finally Divaneh, I see how you might be sensitive to this culture & language issue(as you have shown in the past) having being raised in Abadan as you said yourself among our Arab ham-mihans and to see this issue as a threat to their rights due to your affinity but you must realize that living side by side in harmony does not mean that one group should deny their own culture in order to appease other groups. We must all celebrate our diversity in unity as Iranians.

Cheers!!!

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Dear Divaneh

You are a good guy and I like most of your posts in general. What is this with re-writing history? Why deny the writings on Darius the Great. I mean it is there for all to read. Why do you insist on denying it? Not your style.

Dear BoosBoos

Republic of Azarbayjan is one of the most repressive of former Soviet republics. However it is failing miserably. They have a significant portion of their land de-facto part of Armenia. There is no freedom of speech there.

I was listening to an interview with a man from there. He was talking about how his family preferred IRI TV over their own. Because the programs were more family oriented. When people prefer IRI to their own TV you know Republic is in trouble!

Boos Boos Well done

Payande IRAN

ARYAN AND PROUD. I AM PROUD OF MY ARYAN ROOTS.

DEATH TO PAN-TURKISM

DEATH TO PAN ARABISM 

DEATH TO SEPARATISTS.

DEATH TO RUSSIAN IMPERIALISTS

DEATH TO BRITISH IMPERIALISTS 

LONG LIVE THE UNITED COLOURS OF IRAN. IRAN WILL NEVER  BE SEPARATED 

Aryan Tribes Being Ethnically cleaned in Azerbaijan

Iranians crying out for help that people have never heard of because they were trapped behind the USSR's iron curtain and are now forcibly being assimilated by the Republic of Azerbaijan into "Turks."  

People risked their lives to make the human rights website below: Please support them and ignore those that say Aryan tribes do not exist - usually that's a pretext for trying to make them not exist. 

Roughly Translated from Taleshian (an Iranian language) -- the typos are from their own translations and left in:

"As well known, owners of the big lake (Caspian Sea), first inhabitants of Azerbaijan and Persia (Iran) Talishians are the part of the great Indho-European root, Aryan family that also includes; Persians, Tajiks, Kurds, Daris, Osetins, Pashtos, Pamirs, Mundjans, Yagnobics, Beludjs, Gilanids, Mazandaranis, Lurs, Bahtiyars, Tats and ancient Persians, Midyans, Skifs."  

"Total number of Talishians is still unknown, in azerbaijan Republic population of Yardimli, Calilabad almost lost their Talishian identity this is a tragedy of the nation and unfair policy of Azerbaijanian government aimed towards assimilating Talish nation and this policy is still successfully carried out. It is estimated that approximately 1.250.000 Talishians live in 8.000.000 Azerbaijan Republic, generally in Talish Region and also in Sumgayit and the villages of Baku City." 

Taleshian Human Rights Site:  

//www.talinf.4t.com/whoen.html 

Academic Studies of Talesh:

//www.angelfire.com/un2/talishstudy/talish_study.pdf 

Denigrating Iranian History ... shame shame shame

  ------------

Exact translation of Darius from Naqsh-i Rostam:  

 QUOTE: 

1. (1-8.) A great god is Ahuramazda, who created this earth, who created yonder sky, who created man, who created happiness for man, who made Darius king, one king of many, one lord of many.

2. (8-15.) I am Darius the Great King, King of Kings, King of countries containing all kinds of men, King in this great earth far and wide, son of Hystaspes, an Achaemenian, a Persian, son of a Persian, an Aryan, having Aryan lineage.

3. (15-30.) Darius the King says: By the favor of Ahuramazda these are the countries which I seized outside of Persia; I ruled over them; they bore tribute to me; what was said to them by me, that they did; my law -- that held them firm; Media, Elam, Parthia, Aria, Bactria, Sogdiana, Chorasmia, Drangiana, Arachosia, Sattagydia, Gandara, Sind, Amyrgian Scythians, Scythians with pointed caps, Babylonia, Assyria, Arabia, Egypt, Armenia, Cappadocia, Sardis, Ionia, Scythians who are across the sea, Skudra, petasos-wearing Ionians, Libyans, Ethiopians, men of Maka, Carians.

4. (30-47.) Darius the King says: Ahuramazda, when he saw this earth in commotion, thereafter bestowed it upon me, made me king; I am king. By the favor of Ahuramazda I put it down in its place; what I said to them, that they did, as was my desire. If now you shall think that "How many are the countries which King Darius held?" look at the sculptures (of those) who bear the throne, then shall you know, then shall it become known to you: the spear of a Persian man has gone forth far; then shall it become known to you: a Persian man has delivered battle far indeed from Persia.

5. (47-55.) Darius the King says: This which has been done, all that by the will of Ahuramazda I did. Ahuramazda bore me aid, until I did the work. May Ahuramazda protect me from harm, and my royal house, and this land: this I pray of Ahuramazda, this may Ahuramazda give to me!

6. (56-60.) O man, that which is the command of Ahuramazda, let this not seem repugnant to you; do not leave the right path; do not rise in rebellion.

Parnam's Mission To Make Sure Aryans Don't Exist Anymore

PARNAM: "Aryans don't exist anymore, that's the whole point of the argument. Even as a "linguistic identity" they don't exist ...."

ME: Parnam pass around whatever you're smoking ... puff puff ... yeah the French don't exist anymore ... puff puff ... yeah Arabs don't exist anymore .... puff puff ... yeah the world is flat ... puff puff ... yeah the word "Aryan" was invented by Michael Jackson to oppress Elvis Presley.

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Parnam: Why are you on such a mission to erase Iranians' historical, cultural, linguistic, and sociological roots?  What's happened in your life to hobble you with such an emotional crutch to devote your energies to disproving the existence of people you claim not to be a part of?  It's insane how much time you have invested in trying to *disprove* the obvious historical record and to try to falsely equate Iranians' 2,500 (plus) years of Aryan cultural and linguistic heritage to Hitler's misapplication of the term to Blond-Haired / Blue-Eyed people.  The crux of your Argument is basically a false-positive:  It's like saying Hitler wore pants while he engaged in Genocide, therefore Iranians who wear pants worship Hitler.   Iranians' Aryan identity has nothing to do with race or Hitler ... get a grip.

How on earth can Arabs exist when Aryan groups based in Iran dominated the region from China to the borders of Hungary for thousands of years longer than the brief Arab invasion of 700 A.D.?  Do you know how much longer in time the Achamenid, Sasanian, and Parthian empires reigned in comparison to the 7th century invasion by 30,000-50,000 Arabs or the 11th century Turko-Mongol invasion of Northern Iran?  If I drew a timeline, you would see that proving Arabs exist is much harder than proving Aryans exist.   Where did tens of millions of Aryan people go that settled in and reproduced in Iran for thousands of years?  They all moved to Las Vegas?  Your points are silly and contradicted by the sheer time of dominion and influence of the Aryan tribal groups and the continuing and widespread existence of Indo-Aryan languages all over the world.  

Your arguments remind me of this panturk, Alireza Asgharzadeh, who gets paid to denigrate Iranians:   

//www.kavehfarrokh.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/asghrazadehresponse.pdf 

Quote by Dr. Kaveh Farrokh: 

"This article clearly shows that the recent book by Alireza Asgharzadeh is unscholarly, un- academic and racist. The book by Alireza Asgharzadeh titled: ―A. Asgharzadeh, Iran and the Challenge of Diversity: Islamic Fundamentalism, Aryanist Racism, and Democratic Struggles , Palgrave Macmillan (June 12, 2007) )‖ is full of conspiracy theories and based upon pseudo-scholars who support conspiracy theories. The book is incoherent and inconsistent in terms of putting forward the racist thesis of the author. The aim of the current article is to examine the book and show the multitude of inconsistent argument, historical revisionism and selective amnesia of quoting sources by Alireza Asgharzadeh." 

See Dr. Kaveh Farrokh: //www.kavehfarrokh.com/articles/pan-turanism/ 

Do you people

get the difference of ancient Aryan and Nazi Aryan? It seems like we have a group of people stubbornly refusing to get the difference. The ancient Aryan was not a racial issue. 

Of course why let reality get in the way of fantasy?  Politically correct anti-Iranians flourish on the web. Keep repating the same nonsense and hope it sticks. Ancient Iranians were mixed race from early on so Aryan was not a racial thing.

سنگ نبشتۀ بغستان

جناب بوسبوس،  اسم اصلی آن سنگ نبشته، سنگ نبشتۀ بغستان است. حالا برو و اولین پیام من را بخوان و ببین که نام این سنگ نبشته چگونه نوشته شده و آن بسیار از Bagastana مناسب تر است.

اختلاف بنده با شما اما بر سر این نیست که کلمات فارسی را باید چگونه با الفبای لاتین نوشت. شما هم بهتر است بیش از یک فرد دوازده ساله در این موارد درایت داشته باشید. همانگونه که گفتم آن چیزهایی که شما گفتید در این سنگ نبشته نیست. بگذارید ببینیم داریوش چه می گوید:

------------------------ 

1- منم داریوش، شاه بزرگ، شاهنشاه، شاه پارس، شاه دهیوها، پسر ویشتاسپ، نوۀ ارشام، هخامنشی.

2- گوید داریوش شاه، پدر من ویشتاسپ، پدر ویشتاسپ ارشام، پدر ارشام اریار منه، پدر اریار منه چیش پیش، پدر چیش پیش هخامنش.

3- گوید داریوش شاه: ازیرا ما هخامنشی گفته می شویم که از دیر باز سر شناسیم، از دیر باز تخمۀ ما تخمه شاهی بود.

.......

6- گوید داریوش شاه: اینهایند دهیوهائی که بفرمان من در آمدند. با خواست اورمزدشان شاهم: پارس، خوزیان، بابل، آشور، عربستان، مودرای (مصر)، سرزمینهایی که در دریایند (احتمالاَ بحرین)، سپرد (سارد)، یون، ماد، ارمن، کت پتوک (کاپادوسیه)، پارت، زرنک، هری، خوارزم، بلخ، سغد، گندار (دره کابل)، سگستان، ئتگوش (پنجاب)، هرودات، مکران، رویهم 23 دهیو.

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اگر بند دیگری هم هست که به نظر شما از آریایی بودن صحبت می کند بفرمایید تا ذکر کنم. 

به نقل از دکتر ماهیار نوابی که رسالۀ دکتری خویش را در بارۀ کتیبه بیستون در دانشگاه تهران در سال 1325 به پایان رساند.مجله سخن 1325، دوره سوم،  

Divaneh

Exactly!

BoosBoos

I did say "I quote Simorgh" about purification; perhaps you need glasses now.
But then if you only mean "linguistic identity", (and that is not related to race) what does that serve?
Moshiri (and I) here are talking about racism -- what would be the point to bring a linguistic identity into such an argument? See, you don't make sense!
Anyway, I give up!
Aryans don't exist anymore, that's the whole point of the argument. Even as a "linguistic identity" they don't exist since, according to Simorgh, our current language is not pure and should be cleansed of all Arabic words and idioms before it becomes Aryan.
So if that's where the problem lies, the two of you should make up your minds! Is Farsi, as is, an Aryan language or not? Because if it needs purification before it becomes Aryan, then it still doesn't exist and this whole "linguistic identity" becomes irrelevant. Get it?

Dear Boosboos

I think you need to make a serious effort to read and understand the comments that are left by other people. Otherwise you waste everyone's time, including yourself.

Please excuse me if I am now completely confused as to what is the objective of this debate. I think you must explain this ethnolinguistic shotormorgh. Does it carry load or does it lay eggs? Is it a race classification or language classification? Or is it a classification by both. What is it and what really is your point?

Meanwhile these are my points expressed as clearly as possible.

A- Invention of Aryan race is a new concept and Iranians including Achamenids did not class themselves as being the Aryan race.

B- Today we use the name Aryan people to refer to the tribes who moved to India and Iran more than 3000 years ago or so.

C- This is not about Hitler, Jews and second world war. This is about the racist Iranians who think they have an advantage over others by claiming to be Aryans, although they don't know who their ancestors were passed a few generations.

D- The issue of race is as dangerous and divisive as the religion and should be avoided in a multi ethnicities country such as Iran that is already struggling with seperatist movements.

Now let me reply to your points. Please read my replies carefully in order to avoid any more time wasting..

1. That is a good enemy to have. Enemies like these, who needs friends? I already said we need a reliable source. If you don't find it reliable then come with a reliable source.

2. Yes I agree. Again, we need one (preferably more) reliable source. p.s. Wikipedia includes the Aryan term.

3. Those sources were very unreliable. They were blogs by people like you. I still gave them the benefit of the doubt.

4. See my next comment in Persian.

5. There is no such a thing in Baghestan inscriptions. See my next comment in Persian.

6. What the hell has it got to do with this debate. Read my earlier comment where I explained the terminology Aryan people is used to address the tribes that moved to Iran and India.

7. Here we are discussing Aryan as race or lineage.

8. Please read my reply to point 6 again.

9. So what? read reply 6 again.

10. Don't give me this rubbish. I am more Iranian than you. At least I am aware of my history and the necessity of the unity between all Iranians. Don't use the phrase My People either. No one is your people. If you are an Iranian, then you are one of them.

How can one be proud of something they're not?

$10,000 check to Parnam

PARNAM: "I said if you want to "purify" a language, you're doing exactly the same thing as a racist would do ...."

ME:  I Never said I wanted to purify a language - I never even used the word "purify" or even commented on altering the Persian language.  Funny how some people people attribute quotes to the wrong people or just invent them.  I never even addressed the subject, but here goes: Parnam, I'll pay you $10,000 if you can find anyplace earlier than this comment where I stated that I want to "purify" the Persian language.  Man-up or let people see that you fabricate quotes or attribute them to the wrong person.  Come on Parnam, there's $10,000 in it for you ... show me the quote ... and I'll show youthe money.   If you don't find the quote you falsely attributed to me, you're not permitted to keep your integrity intact.  

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PARNAM:  "the question is Moshiri says there is no Aryan race now anymore. Do you agree with that or not?"

ME:  Parnam, both you and Moshiri twist words -- Hitler's RACIAL conception of Aryans (as a blonde-haired / blue-eyed people) is NOT the same as the ethno-LINGUISTIC conception of the Iranian-Aryan identity and culture that predates Hitler by several thousand years.  If it that hasn't seeped in yet, I suggest you read my comments below and consult with an eye doctor because your vision is failing you:  Whenever I write LANGUAGE you substitute in the word RACE to make it seem like Iranians of Aryan heritage worship Hitler.  I can see that it's very deliberate on your part. 

I don't live in England

And if anyone is using double-talk it's you, not me! I didn't say language is race. Read my post. I said if you want to "purify" a language, you're doing exactly the same thing as a racist would do, as you want to get the Arabic words out!

Trust me, my mother's uncle was one of the pioneers of this whole "real Parsi" thing -- he wrote a HUGE book in "real Parsi". Problem was, NO ONE understood what it said -- except him. And if he wanted to explain what he said, he'd have to do it in what I know as "real Farsi", and it took so long for each sentence to explain!

Anyway, that's not the real question -- the question is Moshiri says there is no Aryan race now anymore. Do you agree with that or not? If you do, then what's the problem?

130,000 Iranians Objecting to PanTurkism

@ Parham:  Language and race are not the same thing - though you insist on trying to make them the same.   

OK I get it:  You want to falsely equate the ethno-linguistic identity of Iranians with Hitler's Aryanism.  

The problem is that people are onto you - nobody buys your double-talk and knows that Iran's Aryan identity predates Hitler by several thousand years and has nothing to do with the way Hitler used the word "Aryan."   

Here's  a Facebook group with 130,000 Iranians called: 

"Molavi (Rumi) is a Persian Poet not a Turkish!"  

   //www.causes.com/causes/241707 

Like I said:  People are onto you ... Iranians are complaining about these PanTurkic tactics.  Iranians will not let subversive groups try to De-Iranicize our people (which includes their ethnolinguistic Aryan history).   

You live in England ... what does it matter to you anyway ...   Be English ... be merry. 

It's not "ethnolinguistic"...

... you've been tearing yourself apart over. It's our "ethnolinguistic identity" -- which is Aryan according to you.
Wouldn't matter, if you want to "purify" (and I quote Simorgh here) our current language (Farsi), which is apparently to take the Arabic words out of it to make it Aryan (therefore it's not a living thing -- it doesn't exist -- it would have to be "invented"), you are applying exactly the same racist principles you're saying your theories have nothing to do with; while at the same time you have proved "Aryan" doesn't really exist anymore.

Get it?

Parham: Don't De-Iranicize My People Please

@ Parham:

Sorry you haven't heard about ethnolinguistics before - the rest of the educated world has:

eth·no·lin·guis·tics

   [eth-noh-ling-gwis-tiks]  Show IPA noun ( used with a singular verb )

the study of language as an aspect or part of culture, especiallythe study of the influence

 of language on culture and of culture on language. 

//dictionary.reference.com/browse/ethnolinguistics 

--------------------

I'm sorry you feel it's an "invented" concept.  The real question is why are you trying to Turkify or Arabize (or perhaps De-Iranicize) my people?  

Try to convince the French they're not French ... start there and let me know how it works out for you.  What I really want to know is when are you going to spend your energy trying to convince people that Arabs and Turks don't exist?  Or are your efforts solely targeted at Iranians?