MOJAHEDIN

The Veiled one: As for the portion of Iranians wanting

vengeance against the MEK, I have to say I beg to differ with you sir!

Let's agree to disagree on just that item, get it!

Oon Yaroo

VPK: I am NOT one of them, MEK!

All I am trying to depict here for you to observe is what MEK appears to be than it actually is

It's true that in the 70's members of the MEK assassinated American military and civilian advisers in Iran but that was last millennium, last century, and 4 decades ago.

Remember, Americans, unlike Iranians, are willing to forget and forgive. So, MEK, from the eyes of Americans are no terrorist any more. What MEK does to IRI is another thing. 

You need to lighten up a bit. Have a cold beer please.

Onn Yaroo

If you really believe that you are not living on this planet. MKO has never abandoned terrorism. Nor has it reformed or is going to. You seem to be one of them so I expect nothing better from you. Please do not take us as fools. The only role MEK will play is when they get tried. That is if they are lucky. I don't give a *** is EU de-lists them. It is not up to EU to tell Iran who the criminals are. In fact many EU leaders themselves are criminals. Who supplied Saddam with WMD against Iran.  

نه قم خوبه، نه کاشون ....

لعنت به هر دو تاشون 

Mo & VPK: MEK = IRI except in several areas that matter most!

Firstly, it is the area of terrorism. MEK has abandoned terrorism. IRI has accelerated it and encourages others to do so as well.

MEK has relinquished its ideological stubbornness while IRI has intensified hers many folds.

MEK has given up on conflict between Israel and Palestine. IRI has become more catholic than the pope.

Finally and most importantly, MEK has  embraced AMERICA. IRI still burns its flag and chants "Marg Bar Amrika!"

That's why MEK is about to be delisted from the list of terrorist organizations. IRI continues to be second to none in that list.

MEK will play a big role in the demise of IRI. That's for sure!

Reality Bites

VPK

I did misunderstand your post, my apologies. I thought you were giving examples of great Kings followed by ineffective/useless ones, to illustrate your point that a nation cannot rely on inherited rule, which is a valid point.

Dear Vildemose

Thank you for your kind words.You nailed it re Mammad.

Dear Areyo

Sorry I don't understand what you mean by simplistic and immature. Why do you monarchist, I assume you are, get insulted when anything negative is said about the Shah? I clearly stated below that he loved Iran and did many great things. His actions - leaving the country during Mossadeg, were not something that a strong leader/King does. Look, many people accuse him of being a puppet for that.

Also, his actions before the revolution- Waiting for signs of approval from the Americans and the British and taking bad advise such as making that speech about hearing the voices of the peoples revolution... these were mistakes.  Screw the Americans and the British. Castro has been screwing them for 50 years. 

Yes like you say, the guy was not perfect. No one is. But he failed to deliver when Iran needed him most. What I mean by he did not resist is that he left to easily. His generals were divided and backed stabbed each other- That is how he liked thing as he did not want to create people with a lot of power and he just got up and left. That is not leadership.  

What about his one political
party rule. You don't think that made things worse for him at the end?

Again, at the end, just like you, I agree that it is Iranians who are to blame for the revolution. I said below that people should stop blaming England, USA, Israel....... That is pure bs. Iranians are ultimately responsible. 

Dear Bavafa

Sorry I did not mean to insult anyone. I don't know which insult you are referring to. I may have called a few people Islamist but this MKO thing gets me pissed off asd I want to see Iranians outside united.

Thanks Mammad

You have nothing to come back with so go to personal insults. You are the same Mammad defending terrorist IRI's nuclear cycle while the same IRI people abused the crap out of you the last time you went to Iran. I guess thoes IRI cultists that abused you are defending Iran so its OK. Now you just have a problem with the MKO cultist. Great politics Mammad. Great politics.

Reality Bites

Iran 2050

• 4) We are more or less in agreement. People are easy to manipulate as they are done in USA. We just need to accept it. The only solution is education. Unfortunately most IC posters do not seem to know what is going on.
• 5) Many Iranians are anti-Arab. I give you that; but it is not racism. It is due to pan Arab behavior. I make a distinction between Iranians of Arab origin. Many of my own family have Arab ancestors. Many other Iranians do as well. We accept it as you know the top commander of Iranian forces against Saddam was an Iranian of Arab origin. If we are so racist why did IRI pick him. And why did he remain loyal to Iran. You may say whatever but Iranian nationalism is not based on Aryan race. That is a European invention and not an Iranian concept. Plus Iranian Jews go back thousands of years. Queen Esther of Khashayar Shah was Jewish. That means the oldest Royal house of Iran has Jewish genes. So we are not an Aryan nation in that sense of blue eyed and blond haired. Aryan just meant "Noble" and that is it. Nazi hijacked the name and ruined its reputation.
• 6) Shia did take some Sassanid Zoroastrian concepts mostly from Vandidad. That book is a part of "Younger Avesta" and not of the real Zoroastrian origin. The real Zoroastrianism is based on Gathas which have nothing in common with Islam Shia or Sunni. Please make yourself familiar with details of Zoroastrian religion.
• 7) We did have some cruel kings. But compared to others Iran was enlightened. We did not practice slavery as did Greeks. Cyrus freed many nations including Jews. Those days wars were common and Iranian kings were no different. The latest part of Sassanids was indeed corrupt. But as a whole Iran was better off then. I said it must be updated to fit modern world.

Regarding MEK

VPK, I’ll start with

VPK, I’ll start with point # 4.

4- West has SOME responsibility, but it ultimately comes to the fact and reality that it’s the will of the people that decides the future of a country with the exception of 1 case: they are directly occupied by another army. And by people, I mean A PORTION of the people; they could be minority of majority at that time, but nonetheless, it’s the PEOPLE who will make the ultimate difference.

5- You are wrong. Maybe your Iranian nationalism is not like German nationalism, but unfortunately, for many Iranians (And that number increases by the day) it is same if not worse than German Aryanism. Just listen to what they say: “We are Aryans” , “Aryans are the supreme race” , “Arabs are savages”, “our brain functions better than Arabs and others” , “We were blond, blue eyed people up until these dirty Arabs mixed with us”…….you want to tell me that doesn’t sound like Nazism? Just because during Reza Shah we never got that powerful to act like Hitler, doesn’t mean many of us don’t think like him.

6- Vey wrong. I didn’t say Islam is a copy of Zoroastrianism, I said “Shite” is. Shite is a Zoroastrian-copied religion mixed with the old Iranian “laat baazi” and “kolahbardari” mentality. Remember, we invented it, so we added our own flavor to it, and by flavor, I mean the options to do the dirtiest things one can think off and somehow legitimize it.

7- You can’t be more wrong. What aspect of 1000 years of pre_Islam Iran are we to be proud of? Let’s talk. Are there some aspects, sure. One aspect we can be proud of, and that’s if you believe in occupation and murder, is that we had a vast empire at points. How is that something to be proud of? Don’t you think innocent Iranian and non-Iranians lives were lost in the process of building this empire? So you’re saying Mongolians should be proud of Genghis Khan? We had some of the cruelest dictator kings in pre Islam Iran. That’s not to say we didn’t have them post Islam, heck, we have one of the cruelest dictators right now (Khamanei!). Every culture has bad things and good things, EVERY culture has that with no exception. But the problem with us Iranians in the last 60 years or so, and specially in the last 30 years due to IRI’s extremism, is that we worship something we were falsely represented to, and that’s a huge threat for building a democratic Iran. If like you said, we need to model pre Islam Iran, we have indeed, gone back to the process of building that empire which means wars with other humans, specially neighbors and bringing destruction and death to Iran and to others, just like Koroush, Daroush, Khosrow Parviz and others did.

8- Similar response to 7.

With regards,

Dear Aryo Barazn: Precisely my point

MEK should be afforded all freedom and rights in participation as long as they do not have blood on their hand and as long as they can demonstrate and respect democratic process. Sadly they have not shown any sign of that yet.

MEK much like Sepah and Basij has Iranian blood on their hand, much like Sepah & Basij have betrayed Iran and Iranians and much like Sepah & Basij have not shown any sign of change of heart and direction regarding democracy and respect for individual rights. Their rank and file need to be given a way out and reinstitute into society and then given all rights and freedom that every one else enjoys but as an organization, legitimizing them is to betray those Iranians whose blood has been spilled by their hands and actions.

'Vahdat' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

Dear Bavafa

I believe I have already answered that question

Even for the Islamises and members of Sepah and Basij as long as they do not have blood on their hand and as long as they can demonstrate that they respect democratic process, they should also be free in tomorrow’s Iran to form their own political party and present their ideology.

The final judgment will belong to the people and will be conducted trough a fair transparent ballet box

101 of cyber activism: over 1600 hits and 100 comments.....

Strange that we, the small iranian.com community seem to be spending so much time on the "potential threat" of a few thousand middle aged MKO folks to our 70million plus nation, yet totally ignoring what is happening right now to our people back home

//iranian.com/main/news/2011/07/14-7

But hear the good news:  The real heroes,  the ordinary people of Iran are fighting the fascist , corrupt islamist regime, without any help from any foreign congress, with no let up until this fascist dictatorship is gone forever. God bless my people, people of Iran. Long live Iran. Death to dicatror. Death to islamist republic.

//iranian.com/main/news/2011/07/14-9

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Dear A.I

I am afraid your approach is too simplistic and immature.

Any Iranian with half a brain  and a shred of patriotism whose vision have not been blinded by Ta-assob will agree that Mohammad Reza Shah and his Father Reza Shah The Grate were the best thing that happened to Iran over the past 100 years.

As I believe any fair-minded Iranian already knows about their services to this country I see no point to repeat them here.

Regarding Shah’s relationship with US and the West, again it is our ignorance and lack of knowledge that will not let us to understand the political world of 1970s which use to be ran with a mob mentality where everybody had to pay bribe and protection money to the master Gangster (US or USSR) or otherwise face the consequences.

Dr Mosaddeg was a perfect example of a patriotic man who did not want to pay that bribe and as a result was eliminated by them.

The fact that Shah had to bribe US and Europe was not a matter of choice but necessity

This was simply because people of Iran at the time were a bunch of backward uneducated superstitious loonies who were looking for the signs and of their future or advice for their daily decision within the pages of a 1300 years old useless book.

People for whom what they observed in the dream they had the night before was more important than the actual realities of the world. People who paid more attention and dedication to an Arab culture that destroyed this country than their own heritage, national heroes, scientists and intellectuals

Now! You tell me my friend. What can one expect form a nation of idiots who were looking to the moon for Khomeini’s picture and wanted 100 Tonam a day as their oil money.

Does this mean that I believe Shah was perfect? Not at all. In fact far from it. Just like others he had many mistakes including suppression of groups such as Communists and MKO loonies instead of exposing them and by doing so he was buying them sympathy and legitimacy without even realizing it

But his biggest mistake was standing up to the West and hiking the price of oil especially his speech in OPEC where he threatened them with stopping export of crude oil. He took this giant step without realising what kind of Nation he is leading or what was the mentality of his people. He did not want to accept that people of Iran had no concept of international affairs and could never support his cause as it was out of their comprehension

Furthermore I would very much like to know what you mean by the notion “he did not resist”?

Would have preferred that he followed the path of IRI and killed millions just to stay in power

How can one protect a nation from their own stupidity?

The bottom line is that the biggest mistake was made by us the Iranian people, by groups such as MKO and Toodeh party and individuals like Banisadr, Rajavi, Ibrahim Yazdi Shariati and many others who supported Khomeini and brought him to power.

Khomeini could have never become the Khomeini he became without the support of groups such as MKO, communists and Toodeh Party and if some people regard the escape of MKO members to Iraq as their biggest sin, I on the other hand regard their support for Khomeini as their biggest act of treason and demand answers from them

Dear AI: I remember ..

I remember you were less into insults and more to substance

Can we have him/her back please?

MEK betrayal has been to Iran and we are all Iranians first regardless of Muslim, Jewish, Christian or atheist belief and faith.

'Vahdat' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

Dear Areyo barzan: How about the same rights for Sepah & Basij

I truly see and understand your idealism and admire it, even though I truly believe in reality not workable. So based on this principal, do you offered the same rights and participation to Sepah, Basij and other IRI heads and members?

'Vahdat' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

VPK

Regarding your one to the last post. First a point of correction; Darius was a great and very able King. The Persian Empire reached its greatest extent and success under his rule. I'm surprised that you didn't know this, unless you meant Cyrus's son, Cambyses II, who ruled the Empire for a few years before Darius took over.

More to the point, if ever Iran goes back to some of a monarchy (which I highly doubt) it cannot be one where the King rules again. It would be have to be a constitutional monarchy of some kind where the King is only the ceremonial head, and the country is governed by an elected Prime Minister and cabinet with checks and balances that an elected parliament provides.

As regards to Israel, yes it may well be that they don't want competition in the region (given their numerous conflicts with the Arabs and now a potential one with the IR, I'm not really surprised), but I don't go along with the idea that they are an expansionist nation and seeking to dominate, beyond stealing land from the Palestinians. I base this on the fact that they gave back the Sinai to the Egyptions and left Southern Lebanon. They know that at some point they'll have to give up the Golan heights to the Syrians and more territory to the Palestinians, if only they would do away with the right-wing idiot Netenyahu.

Getting back to NIAC, I don't accuse them of being on anyone's payroll, but I'm sceptical of their intentions. I asked a question earlier that no one has yet answered. NIAC has been very active recently in highlighting the dangers of MEK for Iran and the US government supporting them. That's fine, I wouldn't want to see MEK gain power in Iran either, though I would support their right to free speech.

However, keep in mind that the MEK danger is a "potential" danger of what "might" happen if in the "future" they ever get some kind of power in Iran. My question is, if NIAC is so concerned about Iran, why is it that they seem to be so silent, or at so least inactive, about what is "actually" happening to Iran "now", under the IR rule? Why is it that we do not see article after article by NIAC regarding constant and numerous incidences of suppression, human rights violations, mistreatment and intimidation of various people/groups, imprisonment, torture, executions of dissidents and general trampling of freedoms by the IR?  

Sean, Good, you say you

Sean,

Good, you say you want democracy for Iran and NO MKO?  Well, put your words to work and write to your representative about it.

If you are an Iranian-American, it will be even more effective to write to your US elected officials.

NO TO MEK NO TO NIAC

End of story.  We want democarcy and neither group represents that.

Falling from grace

Poor mammad, having a melt down again...You are not worth one minute of my precisous time. Your type are morally and ethically challenged because as an ideologue you and your type have adopted a bunker mentality where anyone who disagrees with is out to get you or wants war on Iran. Ideologue usually love their sound of echo chamber.

Your endorsment of Quadaffi was another low that only militan shariti followers can reach.

Your knowledege of Iran amounts to nothing more than gossip-mongering among those who are struggling to maintain their embezzled and ill-begotten wealth.

You are the best example of why the US has decided to de-list MEK.

The jig is up professor. You're a militant jihadist if not in your actions in your heart.

Do not engage me anymore because I cannot stand to watch you self-destruct. It's heartbreaking....

Please seek some professional help....you are not well.

Iran 2050

1. Maybe good chance.
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes but with a lot of shared responsibility on the West
5. No. Iran is not n Aryan nation and never was. We always had Semites; Chinese;Mongols and others. Your statement is wrong. Iranian nationalism is not racist not like Germany.
6. Not really. Islam is not a copy or Zoroastrianism; it took the worst parts and left out the good. Islam is our problem and will be until we leave it.
7. No. Pre-Islam Iran should be a model. It was immensely successful and we have a lot to learn from it. Of course it needs to up updated to match the 21 century.
8. Yes (mostly). We put aside ideological difference; keep MEK out.

Mammad - US recognizes Libyan Rebels + funds for NTC

Several points from the analogy that Mammad pointed out for the Libyan rebels vs. MKO just materialized in the news that just came out on Lybia

U.S. Formally Recognizes Libyan Rebels

//online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304203304576447551762812720.html

* US/EU will provide the Libyan rebels with funds from the frozen Libyan assets

* The US recognizes the rebels (National Transitional Council, SOUNDS FAMILIAR) as the legitimate government of Libya

I hope this scenario does not repeat with the MKO!  But, given the support the MKO is getting on Iranian.com, anything goes.

Thank you AI

Once again, you proved that - though it did not need proof - that you are not kidding when you refer to yourself as artificial intelligence. Your intelligence is truly artificial and non-existent!

Mammad

Thank you vildemose

It is a badge of honor to be a dreaful boring fruad, coming from you and your type. You have nothing - absolutely nothing, zilch, nada, zero, nil, ... - to contribute to the discussions, other than cheerleading, and cheerleading the worst type at that.

I am no better than anyone. I only express my opinion. But, I do have an opinion, because when it comes to Iran, you and your type cannot even dream of having a tiny fraction of knowledge that I have. How about you? What is your contribution? You lost respect because I act according to my principles? That is a second badge of honor.

What you said only confirmed what I said about you, if it needed any reconfirmation. You attack me because I have made it clear that I am a practicing Muslim. But, what you do not know is that participating in a political discussion is not the same as participating in a beauty or popularity contest that you must adjust your views to "win."I express my opinion based on what I believe in, which have been formed throughout my life.

Yup, I should advocate attacks on Iran to make it "exciting" for you. I prefer to be boring than doing it for you.

Mammad