Divorce and Its Ramifications!

Ida14

PEACE

azadeh

What is an MFT? and what kinds of qualifications do you need to become one?

:0)

Thanks for every single of your comments dear friends.

No doubt that divorce is a bloody darn situation that we as adult put ourselves and most importantly our kids into. Divorce is not a pleasant topic to contemplate. It can be a time of emotional turmoil. It can be a time of financial turmoil as well.

Divorce can have a traumatic effect on all parties involved. Effects of divorce on children in particular is a weighty issue which should not be neglected by our society. None the less every member of the family unit is impacted negatively. The implications of divorce are numerous. Emotional and psychological issues often present themselves and continue long-term preceding the termination of a marriage. Depression Anxiety and behavior problems for children along with other psychological implications can manifest themselves as a result of a divorce. Children who are the product of a broken home are more likely to have behavior problems and are more likely to find divorce as an acceptable means to resolving marital problems. Also, studies have shown that children from divorced parents are more likely to suffer from poverty and abuse than children from families who remained intact.Aside from physical and mental well-being, monetary dilemmas can occur as well. After divorce occurs the family’s monetary situation often suffers. The is due mostly to the fact that following divorce the family’s household is split in two. Furthermore, the actual costs of experiencing a divorce such as obtaining legal council can be a heavy burden alone. Thus, the family’s financial costs increase considerably, and everyone involved is effected negatively.
After I put my proposal here, I decided to brows the internet. My finding was astonishing, because there are actually people who are happily divirced and doing it. Please do not get me wrong, any choice we make in this life has its negative and positive sides to it. There is hardly anyhting you can find which can serve only positive for you.

For starters, it saves money. There's no question that, on average, keeping up two households costs more than keeping up one. Because divorce itself costs a lot of money, it's not at all unusual for people going through divorce to be looking around for ways to save money. If you and your spouse can bear being in the same residence together after your divorce is finished, one or both of you will be able to pocket a little extra cash, and that can make a difference. Also,If you're in the same residence, it makes it easier for both of you to care for your children.  Both parents can be active in morning and bedtime rituals, can help with homework, can spell each other with carpooling, and can support each other with discipline.

And what can go wrong?

If you have children living in the home with you, what risk is there that you will confuse them by continuing to live together? Children respond much more keenly to what they experience than to what their parents tell them about it. If you and your spouse tell them Mom and Dad are divorcing but they see Mom and Dad still living together and behaving as if they are still married, your children may well forget the whole divorce conversation and ignore it the next time or two they hear it as well. That is, by living together after divorce, you run the risk of exacerbating the natural tendency of your children to delay their grieving; they may stay in denial longer.

Now let's say there's no risk of extending the grieving of your children or that of either of you. What else might go wrong? In some states, there's a risk that you could become married again at common law (that is, undo your divorce). The standard is what you and your spouse intend, but because we can't crawl up inside your head and measure your brain (at least not yet!), the courts look instead at how you behave. When people behave as if they're husband and wife, courts in some states might declare that they are husband and wife.

Perhaps the issue most likely to trouble you if you live together after you divorce is money. In the past, you've developed rules and customs about how you accounted for money, how you decided what to spend, and who had what responsibilities. Now those rules are gone. Or are they? What are the new rules? Are there any old rules that remain? What money will you combine, and what money will you keep separate?

PEACE

Very Intersting View Azadeh

But, it requires a lot of discipline from the couple involved to be under the same roof and be civil toward each other and the kids if they choose to stay under the same roof after the divorce. Let's say they do have the discipline and respect each other now the question is if they do have all that for each other why do they have to divorce to be friends? why can’t they build that possible friendship within the marriage? And now let’s assume they would like to have their own life under this “separated environment umbrella” how can they explain to a child or a teenager that mommy and daddy have their own boyfriend and girlfriend. In my view this may harm the kid’s view of the family as a unit more than if the mom and dad are totally separated. One other note most marriages die out due to lack of basic human respect and love and to expect the couple whom were in that vicious environment to all of the sudden start respecting each other and being civil to each other just for sake of the kids may be possible but hardly probable. Your point is very well taken, divorce is more harmful to the mental and perhaps physical health of children involved. Just my two cents. Thanks.

You are such a psychologist :)

I have written two paragraphs and all you say is accusing me that something bothers me? So if anybody disagrees with psychology they will be immediately labeled as something? Nice job ;)  You can endlessly make money by just accusing without ever having to show scientific basis. Crazy!

Dear Azadeh

A divorce is complicated and painful enough as it is. Picking up the pieces and moving forward is another painful step in a divorced person's life. I cannot imagine how it would be possible to do both under the same roof with a person with whom, after all, you didn't have enough understanding and constructive communication to continue your marriage. I seriously doubt such a formula would work, even in the short run. I am sure it won't work on a longer term as each of the two people tries to develop their own social life, circle of friends, hobbies, and later on dating ambitions. I don't quite understand your reasoning for this, either, and looking through the comments, it doesn't appear that you have addressed the logistics you perceive for this idea.

My suggestion is: "Don't even think about it!," unless both of you feel motivated by purely economical reasons where you don't want to split your equity in the house for each of you to move into a smaller household. Even in that case, while it's true that a divorce drastically diminishes each partner's standard of life, you will have to remember that your peace of mind and that of your daughter's is the most valuable and important thing you have to consider. Continuing to live in the same house with someone you just divorced sounds surreal and unpractical to me.

For all it's worth, I leave you with a link to a piece I wrote a while back about divorce. I hope it's helpful. I wish you the best of luck in your life and send you waves of good vibrations and strength during a very trying time in your life.

//iranian.com/Kaviani/2007/May/Divorce/in...

Dear Azadeh

I see your point.  The problem is, how can two people who have enough disconnect and miscommunication to have reached the point of divorce, agree on a complex arrangement as the one you suggest?  

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PEACE

Psychology has ruined more marriages than ever known

With their mixed bag of mumbo-jumbo, faked as science, and with their authoritative attitude (what I say is allways right because the government says so) they have confused more people and lead them astray than any cult.

ADD, by the way, is another fake "illness" which has never been proven to exist. Although there are people who exhibit shorter attention span, etc, this has never been proven to be an illness and in fact it is not clear what psychologists mean when they call it an illness. It's just a scam to collect "patients" and their "solution" is nothing more than crack cocaine and speed. A government study showed that cocaine addict could not tell the difference between the high they get from Ritalin and Cocaine. In fact Ritalin is widely sold in black market for drug addicts. This is just a legal way of turning people into drug addicts.

Divorce

I separated from the father of my daughter when she was 6 months old. It was tough but fortunately both he and I were financially secure and have been able to provide separate homes for our daughter. After the first couple of years, we came to a good working relationship and parenting arrangement. We share custody.

My daughter is 10 now and all that see her are amazed by her emotional stability and astuteness. Iranians especially comment at how wonderful she is, quick to point out how unbelievable this could be given that she come from a 'broken home'!

My daughter has two homes. Two very different homes. She loves both parents and appreciates each one. She acknowledges, all by herself, why her parents could not live together.

The other day as we were driving along, she said to me that she feels one of the most fortunate people in the world. She started counting all the things she has and is. She is beautiful, has a lovely disposition, speaks two languages, is well travelled around the world, has loving family members on both sides, has wonderful friends, wants for nothing materially speaking and , overall is one of the happiest people she knows. The only thing she has not seen, she said, was a 'loving relationship' between a man and a woman. She pointed out, again, all by herself, that she could see why her Dad and I did not love each other. I pointed out that she has seen the relationship of her granpdarents and her uncles and aunts all of whom have been loving. She gently corrected me that she has not 'lived' with one.

To date, neither me nor her father remarried and have not involved her in any relationships that we may have had. After 10 years of singlehood lately I have become involved with a very loving and wonderful man. She is about to witness a loving relationship and hopefully one day she will witness something similar in her father's home as well.

I have had many years to think about a decision I made soon after my daughter was born. I used to think divorce was a selfish decision and the children pay. There is an inherent belief and, I would say it is correct, that two parents are better than one. True. Nature designed it so that each person would have two parents - the child would be doubly supported. In order for that support to be sustained, there needed to be affection, love, acceptance etc etc between the two parents. In that scenario of course two parents would work together for the child or children. However, this is not always the case among feuding couples when the child is being pulled this way and that. In that scenario there is no support and only a burden for the child. And when the feud carries on into the divorce, the children become weapons and remain fragile and hurt. They develop distrust and eventually turn away from one or both parents. The same can happen inside of a bad marriage.

In my opinion divorce works well for the children only when both parents realize that while their commitments to each other has ended, their commitment to supporting the child alongside the other parents remains intact. Then the divorce has a chance of success - both for the two individuals and for the child. The child gets to have two happy homes and two happy parents. versus one home and two unhappy parents. The motto has to be "Move On".

A lot has to also do with the child's temperament. Some children are easy going and some are not. Not every child coming out of a loving marriage is happy and not each one out of an unhappy marriage sad. There are as many divorce arrangements as there are divorces. There are divorces when the parents never set eyes on each other and then there are those when the parents move in and out of the children's home (it is called nesting). The whole dynamics of it all needs to be gauged according to the temperament of the parents and the children. There is no hard and fast rule as to what works and what doesn't.

There is a lot that goes into the makings of a child. However I think the most important influence on a child is the attitude of the parents be they in a marriage or outside of it. We are role models in whatever we do. Children watch how their parents conduct their lives and that is what they learn.

Divorce should not be taken lightly. It is a lonely road. Whereas marriage can end, divorce is forever. Finances aside, the emotional and social toll is bewildering at least in the early years.

My advice to you if you are contmeplating divorce is to discuss it first and foremost with your husband. See a counsellor, see another. Spend a lot of time thinking and analyzing why you want out. Many of the reasons which lead you to consider divorce may appear irrelevant in a year or two afterwards, and as unlikely as it may feel right now, you may find yourself knocking on your ex's door asking to be let back in. Will you have the stomach for that? Only you can answer that.
You must seriously and wholly realize that you will be completely alone, financially, physically, socially and emotionally for a long time. If your ex ends up paying you support, he will have the power to control you, control what happens in your home. He who has the gold, makes the rules (inside and outside of a marriage!). Remember that and respenct that fact. It is the golden rule any lawyer worth his salt will tell you. Aside from the kids and their financial support you will have to face the bitter truth that you contributed to the breakdown of the marriage and you will need to go into correcting your ways before launching into another relationship. Without correcting your ways you will make the same mistakes in the next relationship. You have to accpet that another relationship may never happen. You need to acknowledge that deep down, despite friends and family telling you there are a lot of guys out there who'd give their right arm for you. Guess what, they may do that as long as you are married to someone else. It is not a given that will be the case once you are divorced - with baggage. Remember that (aveezeyeh gooshet kon). You have to be Mom and Dad all the time your kids are with you. No breaks - no letting your emotions rule the house. You have to be two people with half the resources, 24/7. Sounds romantic? Not exactly.

Given all this, think long and hard now and consider whether you could not start corrections to yourself now. Make sure that you have done everything you can before starting a divorce.

Once you have decided that divorce is for you, see a lawyer and don't for a minute think you can do this by yourself. You would not launch upon a heart transplant or brain surgery by yourself, neither should you undertake a divorce on your own. Get a good lawyer and make sure you have an iron-clad agreement. Chances are that you will need it for the first few years until things cool down and you can relax into the new arrangements and you enter the next phase of life.

No matter what you choose, you will need to work hard at it for yourself and next for your children. You will have to work just as hard to make a marriage work as you do to make a divorce work well. It starts with you.

Best,

azadeh jan

a family friend (husband and wife) have been separated but living together for the past fifteen years with their two daughters. they tell me they decided long time ago that they could not get along and they had a love less marriage. they had two choices: one to get divorce and two to stay in the same house as room mates in two different bed rooms and bring up their children. they chose choice number two. they decide not fight and just be friends and create a home suitable for their children a safe and good home. they have done that. their children are grown up and are normal like any one else. they have proved to me and every one else that this can be done. both husband and wife did not date other people and went home every night and stayed with the girls. they put their children first and over came their personal desires. they tell me if they had divorced the out come of their children may not have been the same.  

Dearest Not Therapist

I have no recollection what-so-ever that I said I am a professional, let alone a psofessional psychologist!!!! I do not know where you got the idea, however, whenI write here my friend, I take into account that who my readers are. I could have brought up the idea in more sophesticed way (which I wonderif I could). To me writing here can be mix of both, professional and some grandma's talk:0)

You are probably right, sometimes when I start a very important matter like this, I lost myself and have no patience to extend it, and want to put an end to it even if it looks like a sloppy piece. I have to listen to one of my friend as ask him for editing my stuff, that comes from my ADD side of personality.

dearest, matter of divorce with regard to consideration to the kids does not understand time and 21 centurey. There are a lot of Family and system oriented therapist that do believe in the value of family and staying together under the same roof. Besides Dr. Hetherington, there are other authors who do believe otherwise. One intersting fact about psychology is the controversial nature of this science. I threw that question because I have heard, during the past two months, that has become an epidemic problem with newly MFT (myself included), the reason: Obvious personality growth, and finding one's place in life more especifically Iranian back-ground women.

 به عنوان کسی که با روان مردم سر و کار دارد بعید است چنین ساده انگارانه به مقوله’ طلاق و فرآیندی که در طول آن طی می شود اشاره بفرمایید.Why? Isn't it all about relationship? What was the implition of my taking it lightly?

آیا یک زن و مرد روزی صبح از خواب بیدار می شوند و تصمیم می گیرند که ازدواج آنها بدون عشق است و بعد تصمیم به طلاق می گیرند؟ آیا اختلافاتی بین آنها صورت نمی گیرد که به مشاجره و داد و فریاد ختم شود؟ آیا این اختلافات و مشاجرات بعضا سالهای سال طول نمی کشند؟ آیا اینها مصداق بد رفتاری جلوی بچه های آن زوج نیست؟ بهتر است ما هر نوع تحصیل و تجربه’ شما در کار روانشناسی را فراموش کنیمSorry if I disappointed you!. شما مثل اینکه حتی یک بار هم زوجی را در حال "بدون عشق بودن" یا طلاق گرفتن ندیده اید که این سئوال را مطرح می فرمایید! Did I push the wrong button here?

PEACE

Don't think about divorce,

Don't think about divorce, work on your marriage. People always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence but you would be surprised. You don't want your child to deal with a stepmother, you know how stepmothers are, usually evil... the reason is they either want to step into the position of mother which is impossible because no one can be a mother to your child besides yourself or they are selfish and start competing with your children for your husband's love and attention and the children would get hurt, so if you have the option, don't divorce your husband and instead try counseling, it really helps if you are both willing to save your marriage and go to counseling together.

Let's forget English for a minute

آزاده خانم. کاشکی شما به فارسی بنویسید تا ما بفهمیم شما دقیقا چه می گویید. شما در جایی دیگر ادعا کرده بودید که یک روانشناس حرفه ای هستید، بنا براین توقع من از شما این است که مطالبی را که در ارتباط با اینگونه مسایل می نویسید کمی از لحاظ علمی و منطقی پربار تر و عمیق تر باشند. چند نکته و سوال برای من پیش آمده است. برای مثال آیا شما در خصوص تصمیم طلاق خودتان نوشته اید یا این یک نکته’ عمومی است؟ ذکر مورد دخترتان در متن شما کمی گیج کننده بود. آیا شما میخواهید طلاق بگیرید و نمیدانید که آیا ادامه’ زندگی با همسرتان زیر یک سقف برای بچه های شما بهتر است و یا جدا زندگی کردن از او؟ یا اینکه تصمیم به طلاق گرفته اید، و تصمیم به زندگی زیر یک سقف هم گرفته اید اما حالا می خواهید دیگران راجع به این تصمیم شما همفکری کنند؟

شما می فرمایید که برای بچه ها بهتر است در یک خانواده که پدر و مادر آن یکدیگر را دوست ندارند زندگی کنند تا در یک خانواده’ در هم شکسته مگر اینکه نوعی بدرفتاری برای بچه ها در جریان باشد. به نظر شما تماشای زن و مردی که یکدیگر را دوست ندارند برای بچه ها نوعی بد رفتاری و بد آموزی محسوب نمی شود؟ آیا آن بچه ها از این پدر و مادر رسم زندگی کردن را یاد می گیرند؟ به عنوان کسی که با روان مردم سر و کار دارد بعید است چنین ساده انگارانه به مقوله’ طلاق و فرآیندی که در طول آن طی می شود اشاره بفرمایید.

آیا یک زن و مرد روزی صبح از خواب بیدار می شوند و تصمیم می گیرند که ازدواج آنها بدون عشق است و بعد تصمیم به طلاق می گیرند؟ آیا اختلافاتی بین آنها صورت نمی گیرد که به مشاجره و داد و فریاد ختم شود؟ آیا این اختلافات و مشاجرات بعضا سالهای سال طول نمی کشند؟ آیا اینها مصداق بد رفتاری جلوی بچه های آن زوج نیست؟ بهتر است ما هر نوع تحصیل و تجربه’ شما در کار روانشناسی را فراموش کنیم. شما مثل اینکه حتی یک بار هم زوجی را در حال "بدون عشق بودن" یا طلاق گرفتن ندیده اید که این سئوال را مطرح می فرمایید!

شما بدون ذکر منبع می فرمایید که مطالعات آماری نکته’ مورد نظر شما را نشان می دهند. در کتابی از پرفسور هترینگتون و جان کلی، پرفسور هترینگتون که یکی از سرشناس ترین محققان مقوله’ فرآیند های خانواده در طول طلاق می باشد ( ذیلا مشخصات آن را به انگلیسی خواهم نوشت)، نتیجه’ 30 سال تحقیق روی تاثیر طلاق روی بچه ها، پدر و مادران، و خانواده ها را بررسی می کند و به نتایج بسیار متفاوتی از آنچه شما گفته اید می رسد. برای مثال، بعد از دنبال کردن گروهی از فرزندان طلاق به مدت 30 سال، پرفسور هترینگتون به این نتیجه می رسد که طلاق پدر و مادر نه تنها در درصد موفقیت اجتماعی فرزندان آنها در مقایسه با فرزندان خانواده های طلاق نگرفته تاثیری نمی گذارد، بلکه در گروهی که موضوع مطالعه’ او بوده اند فرزندان طلاق موفق تر از فرزندان زندگی های متداوم بوده اند. دلیل این موضوع هم واقع بین تر بودن آن بچه ها بوده است.

آزاده خانم. باور کنید من نمیخواهم ملا لغتی باشم و به شما ایراد بیجا بگیرم. اما به نظر من فرمایشات شما و راه حل پیشنهادی شما درست مثل حرفهایی است که مادر بزرگ من راجع به زندگی های بی عشق قدیمی می زد. منتها حرفهای شما گونه’ قرن بیست و یکمی حرفهای اوست که در آن شما از فعل طلاق و جدا کردن حسابهای بانکی صحبت می کنید. وگرنه او هم معتقد بود باید به خاطر بچه ها به زندگی زیر یک سقف ادامه داد. درست است طلاق کار مذمومی است اما بهتر است بدانید که ادامه’ زندگی به هر قیمتی هم نتیجه اش ممکن است پرداخت هزینه های گزاف در روح و روان فرزندان آن خانواده باشد.

برای شما آرزوی موفقیت دارم.

For Better or For Worse, Divorce Reconsidered; Mavis Hetherington and John Kelly, 2002, W. W. Norton and Company. Surprising results from the most comprehensive study of divorce in America.

Putting studies aside ....

Azadeh joon

Put studies aside when it comes to your personal life.. because you have to live it.

In my humble opinion, with 2 now adult daughters of my own I think I did the right thing to divorce my first husband. It became a loveless marriage with each of us doing our own thing... mine was raising my 2 girls! I thought about it carefully at the time and I decided my girls had the right and should grow up expecting more.

My eldest daughter now 29 is just about to get married. If I had been able to choose a husband for her, I couldnt have have found anyone better matched for her and she says this is because I didnt settle for any thing less the the best for me.

My younger daughter is in a relationship she is happy in and she too says that I gave her inspiration and confidence.....what more can you give your children??

If I had stayed in a loveless shame of a mariage what message would I have given them ..... that as women we have to settle for what we have even if we arent happy? Better one happy parent, than two unhappy ones!  

I completely stand by my decision 20 odd years ago and although sometimes I wondered if I had done the right thing ... the proof is in the pudding .. so to say!

As a seperated or divorced couple, your children still have two parents and all the love you can give them with out all the strife and mixed messages.

This is just my view but I hope it helps.  Im not saying it was easy, at times it was too difficult but I would never change what I did.

Javaneh