divaneh

This is beyond belief Escape

I am sorry to say this but your last comment shows that you are beyond help. I do not wish to debate you because you seem to be bereft of any logic and have a day-is-night type of conviction. I think those abused kids must have had unsuspecting parents with the same mindset as you, which indicates the danger that people who think like you cause others.

I however provided you that letter, and here it is again. Read it and try to understand the directives between the lines.

Extract from the Sacramentorum Sanctitatus Tutela: Apostolic letter from Cardinal Ratzinger (2001). Sent to Bishops of the entire Catholic Church.

......

In the delict perpetrated with a minor by a cleric, the prescription begins to run from the day when the minor has completed the eighteenth year of age.

In tribunals established by the ordinaries or hierarchs, the function of judge, promoter of justice, notary and legal representative can validly be performed for these cases only by priests. When the trial in the tribunal is finished in any fashion, all the acts of the case are to be transmitted ex officio as soon as possible to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith............

Cases of this kind are subject to pontifical secret

..........

Further comment of my belief

On the subject of the age of the Earth and man's devolpment.There were men before Adam,they were not like Adam,as evidenced by the missing link. They had little to no intelligence until God gave Adam a gene that included intelligence.

  Divaneh you did not

  Divaneh you did not provide the letter.Stop lying.If you want to debate me answer the question of hearsay in your so called evidence.
COP You don't have the brains to know the difference between a apeman and common man nor the brains to differentiate Islam and Christianity let alone the brains to know what I think.

I think you people are all the same too,reactionary and redundent with closed minds bound to ignorance.

..........

CNN News 3/8/2011

Dear friends

Thanks for your comments and contributions.

Dear Yolanda,

Thanks for the selection of extracts from the Bible. It is another proof that it is all about interpretations. Unfortunately some stick with one interpretation and treat it as the only truth.

Dear Escape,

I have provided you the letter by the Cardinal Ratzinger and you are still going on about the validity of the BBC programme that discussed it. I have provided you with much evidence and there is a lot more but I won't be posting any more. It is like lighting more candles for someone who has closed her eyes. It doesn't matter how many more candles you lit, she will not see them.

Dear Rea,

Thank you for your kind words. I also read the news about the Pope absolving the collection guilt of the Jews. Just unbelievable. Whilst his church is hiding the war criminals and transfer sick paedophiles from one group of children to another, he goes on about the guilt of all Jews for the killing of one man 2000 years ago by Romans. And as you said, all allegedly. They are all the same. The Church of England who also reminds its parishioners of that killing every Sunday and collects their charitable donations, happened to be a big investor in weapon manufacturer, British Aerospace. I don't know if they still hold to their blood stained shares.

Rea jaan,

never mind this escape character. He probably believes the earth is only 5,976 years old because it's in the Bible.

Religious nuts aren't exclusive to Islam.

Thank you very much.

____________

IRAN FIRST

____________

Escape, c'mon, you can't be serious

Did you know a Dog came back from the Dead?

  //blog.seattlepi.com/thebigblog/2011/03/03/euthanized-dog-comes-back-to-life-kind-of/

Allegedly because I did not see it with my own eyes..

You did a great job writing this blog

Followed it from the very start. Just, didn't think the Old Man was worth all the fuss, so never commented.

But now he's worth it. Update, watch out ;o).

The Old Man has just absolved the Jews for having allegedly crucified 2000 years ago the one who'd allegedly existed, lol. ;o)

PS. worse even, there are still people who believe the itinerant rabbi, disciple of the Hermes school, the first and the last true communist, had really been resurrected.

Looooloool ;o) 

  Divaneh If there was a

  Divaneh If there was a fair trial to be had in this case you wouldn't be on it.You read into the BBC link what you want to read apparently.Because after reading this link that once again is supposed to prove your point it fails to do so.It states they are unable to make a decision.I can understand that.These cases are he said/she said.They have be dealt with appropiately so everyone involved is treated fairly.If you follow rape cases/stalking cases etc,A court of law would have done the same thing.There's no proof in alegations and we don't need judges who judge the case before all the evidence has been brought forth.

These people are not just in the Church,they are in the Boy Scouts,they are in Public Schools phys ed programs,they are in our colleges,they're in the entertainment industry.They've even made movies promoting it.It's not just the Church,it's our society of liberal sickness.

Parent's need to be aware,they do have responsibility as well.

...........

 .....

Here is what Bible says:

Genesis 2:24 (Old Testament)

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

**********************

Genesis 2:18

The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

**********************

Proverbs 18:22

He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the LORD.

**********************

Unfortunately, Catholic church feels that it is a great idea for priests to be alone........and then some of the perverted priests find "pleasure" in the wrong places!

Great blog and book review!

Thank you!

..........

LOL!

  if we put an Akohnd and a Catholic priests in a mixer we may get a normal individual out of it. If it fails to work still we have two less harmful individuals in the society.

****************

Thanks,  Dear divaneh!

Difference between marriage and adultery

Dear Yolanda,

In the case of Islam there is a difference between marriage and adultery. In the adultery cases the Akhond has not received his fee and is angry. They make an example of the pair to make the rest of the people understand that they cannot have sex without paying the god's official pimps, i.e. Akhonds.

A very good observation about Catholics and Muslims. I suppose based on that observation, if we put an Akohnd and a Catholic priests in a mixer we may get a normal individual out of it. If it fails to work still we have two less harmful individuals in the society.

Dear Escape

Please see below a link to the 1985 letter by Joseph Ratzinger in which he places the good of the universal church above the need to remove the child rapist. The man who was the subject of this letter, Father Stephen Kiesle was allowed to continue working with children and was convicted again in 2004 for molesting a young girl.

//www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/vaticancityandholysee/7573321/Text-of-1985-letter-from-future-Pope-Benedict-on-California-sex-abuse.html

Please also see below extract from the Sacramentorum Sanctitatus Tutela: Apostolic letter from Cardinal Ratzinger (2001). Sent to Bishops of the entire Catholic Church.

......

In the delict perpetrated with a minor by a cleric, the prescription begins to run from the day when the minor has completed the eighteenth year of age.

In tribunals established by the ordinaries or hierarchs, the function of judge, promoter of justice, notary and legal representative can validly be performed for these cases only by priests. When the trial in the tribunal is finished in any fashion, all the acts of the case are to be transmitted ex officio as soon as possible to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith............

Cases of this kind are subject to pontifical secret

..........

 The above is from an appendix to the book that has been reviewed in this blog. I also suggest that you read on other cases including the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) reaction to the information about Father Lawrence Murphy and rape and buggery of 200 deaf boys over 20 years in Wisconsin. The CDF headed by Ratzinger did nothing. I also encourage you to read on the John Jay study that revealed since 1950 no fewer than 10,667 individual had made allegations against 4392 priests in the US. Please also read on two high profile cases Doe v Holy See (which has now reached the US Supreme Court), and O’Bryan v Holy See.

The links that I have provided were all from respectable news outlets and media organisation that would have withdrawn the information if there was a valid protest from the church. At the very least for the fear of financial penalties associated with the defamation cases. You are however not the first religious person with whom I have entered a discussion. No amount of evidence will change your mind. People with religious conviction do not enter a debate to find the truth; they rather do it to give other people their own version of the undisputable truth.

Finally, I agree with you that even a paedophile deserves a fair trial and it would be nice if the church instead of running a parallel justice system, reported the allegations to the civil authorities so that they could give these individual a fair trial that every other member of the society would receive.

......

Hi! Divaneh,
Catholic churches rather have fake "celibacy" than letting the priests getting married......very strange!
I am not sure how they operate? The priests have no wife or children.....so when catholics have marital problems, the priests can't give any advice....they have never been married to an opposite sex....have no clues about married life!

You are right that they derprive a human of basic physical need.....and then the priests turn into Michael Jackson! Very tragic! They need to have an open-minded Pope.......maybe, the church members need to take to the street and protest!

Islam is one extreme regarding sex: you can have 4 wives, sigheh, or but you get stoned for adultery!
Catholicism is another extreme: The priests can't even have one wife!
************

Thank you for your blog! Very interesting discussion!

Dear Yolanda

I have reached the same conclusions as you and believe that depriving a human of a basic need will result in perverts who prey on children. What I can't understand is that why the Abrahamic religions make such a big deal of sex, the very act that creates life. There is no other solution to this dilemma as you mentioned and they eventually have to follow the lead of other churches with regards to the clergy marriage.

These links are a poor case

These links are a poor case Divaneh.For instance,this BBC documentary link based on some 'secret' document is supposed to prove the Pope covered up.I wouldn't even consider it as circumstancial as it's Impartial.

I mean even a pedophile deserves a fair trial.

.........

Thank you, divaneh, for your last post...........

very informative!

I personally believe that Catholics churches practice "Don't ask, don't tell!"

They don't ask their priests if they are pedophiles..... they also don't tell their parishioners that their priests are pedophiles......if the victims start to complain, they will rotate the priests to a different parish! Why? They have no solution to the problem as long as they insist that the priests have to be celibate!

Dear Escape

Thanks for your answers but I was hoping that you would base your answer on facts rather than your own conviction. If you think church does listen, then please explain how he has reacted to the demand by some priests for church to allow them to marry. An example was a survey of 500 Catholic priests in Austria. I do appreciate that they have now agreed that the earth is round but that is not what I call listening.

//blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2010/06/29/austrian-priests-critical-of-rome-want-marriage-allowed/

They actually do protect the criminals as revealed by Murphy Commission.

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy_Report

These are not only the Paedophiles that they protect, they also protect war criminals.  These include Gen Ante Gotovina, Croatia's most wanted war criminal, Father Athanase Seromba a Rwandan war criminal who was hid by Vatican in a Tuscan Seminary, and many more.

//news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4263426.stm

//www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article607633.ece

//www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/mar/29/pope-catholics-rwanda-genocide-church

They do not report them to Police because of direct communication from Curia and particularly Cardinal Ratzinger. Unless in your view Pope is also a leftist.

//www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23369148-pope-led-cover-up-of-child-abuse-by-priests.do

//www.irishcentral.com/news/Vatican-asked-Irish-bishops-not-to-report-clerical-abuse-to-the-police-113868834.html

You may think that church is sorry for people but you are wrong. If that is the case then why don’t they show a little care for the victims? Should they not be sorry for them? And what about the abuse of the Nuns? Is it the gays who sexually abuse the nuns? Or is it sexually frustrated priests?

You may have you own conviction, but the facts are not on your side.

Dear COP and Faramarz

Thanks for reading and contributing to this discussion.

Dear COP,

Although religion now weak, it is still trying to retake the lost ground and spread its backward message and practices by getting involved in International organisations such as UN. They may not be able to success but they surely do enough damage in the process.

Faramarz Jaan,

I totally agree that expecting celibacy from men or women is just a futile effort and denying the existence of a basic human need will have its own deprecations. You are also right about the nuns and the reports of abused nuns must be a minute fraction of the real number of such cases due to the shame factor involved. In 2001 Vatican confirmed the abuse of nuns by priests in 23 countries and almost 10 years later the abuse still continues. The bad news for the church is that it is very difficult to hide the scandals in the information age and the internet is full of authenticated stories from reliable sources.

Yes Divaneh

Yes Divaneh I know the difference between gay and pedophile.But not Michael Jackson..I think the majority of the Church cases are both.Homo-Pedo's.

When did the church listen to anybody with regards to this matter? The Church does listen.Benedict was chosen to clean the church up.

Why do they protect these sick criminals? Some do but not all of them.

Why does it not report them to the Police? Because the leftists.

Do you have any answers?I gave you the one answer.It's the leftist's in the church.They feel sorry for anyone and anything.If you need someone to feel sorry for you,go to the Church.It's their business.I say kick them out of the Church.

..........

Thank you, Faramarz, for your post!

I agree with you........Catholic church demands celibacy...very unnatural demand......it is almost like mission impossible.......and then ends up having pedophiles as prients.......other denominations, like Baptists, Methodists, Church of Christ, do not require celibacy........they don't have many pedophiles as Catholic churches have.............

The Priests, the Nuns and the Choir Boys

Thank you Divaneh for bringing attention to this important topic.

I believe that it is extremely dangerous to demand celibacy from men in the prime of their lives and then throw them in a private convent with women and young boys and expect them to behave themselves. Many of these priests have other issues to start with and join the Church to seek salvation. But the end result is the abuse that we are learning about these days.

This problem is not going to go away. The Catholic Church needs to allow its clergy to get married and have families like most other religions.

The other problem that has gone un-reported is the sexual abuse of the nuns by the priests. In many of those cases, the nuns would rather keep everything to themselves and live in shame instead of coming forward and expose the priests.     

Vatican and the "colonies"

The power of religion, but only a glance of what it once WAS.

I must remark about the beloved religion of Islam of course! Funny (sad, actually for us) how Islam is the Johnny Come Lately in the power game scene that is religion.

Good read, Thanks. 

____________

IRAN FIRST

____________

Dear Fatollah

Thanks for your encouraging comment. At least we can have comfort in the fact that Mullahs are not the only evils.

Dear Oktaby

Thanks for reading. I think most of them join these organisations with sinister intent and many out of greed. It is a very good business that involves no physical or mental work, but more than that, a cover for criminal acts.

an eye opening read

thanks. :)

good review

I wonder about the motives of most priests (mollahs, Rabii's, or anyone feeding off religion). Do they join the church because it provides acceptance and cover for deviant behavior in exchange for absolute obedience? or they simply evolve to become as deviant as the institution!

Oktaby

Dear Friends

Thanks for reading and providing more information on this matter.

Dear Yolanda,

The book challenges a legal issue but is written for the general public and not only those in the legal profession. I have no issue with gay priests as they exercise their own rights but paedophile priests have to be arrested and brought to justice. Your solution is the most logical solution and has also been suggested by some people within the Catholic Church but has been refused by the Pope and the Curia. The church does not look the other way in these cases, it in fact protects the perpetrators whilst silencing the victims.

 AO Jaan,

I could not agree with you more. All religions are there to infect the society with lies that touch human's deepest desires and fears. The infected society is then ripe for the personal gains of the clergy.  

Thanks for the links to the additional materials. I found the Hitchens' article very interesting and will be reading the other two next. A big problem is this hocus-pocus state of the Holy See that is itself illegal. The church classes the criminal priests as the citizens of this so called state and run its own parallel justice system that rewards the paedophile priests with new fertile grounds instead of allowing the civil authorities to put these criminals behind the bars.

Red Wine aziz,

Your wish is my command. Thanks for reading. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Dr Saadat Noury geraami,

You are right as usual. They are certainly involved in other forms of crime. A god example is the mysterious death of the reforming Pope John Paul I who was found dead in his chamber only 33 days after the start of his papacy. His reforms amongst other things would involve the corrupt Vatican Bank whose scandals at time had hit the news. His death and the church's cover up has been the subject of different books. There is also very interesting information available online about the poisoning of the Pope John Paul I.

Dear Escape,

Do you know the difference between Gay and Paedophile? When did the church listen to anybody with regards to this matter? Where in its charter or anywhere else has the church endorsed gay priests? And assuming that you are right and it is the gay priests who also happen to be paedophiles who commit these crimes. Why does the church protect these sick criminals? Why does it not report them to the Police and civil authorities? Do you have any answers?

Sick leftists put Gay Priests in the Church

You know how they did it,they called the Church racist,neanderthal,homophobic etc.  The same sick leftists now complain about them.When the church realize that a leftist isn't worth listening to,they will be fine.What political affiliation do you think a Gay Priest is? A leftist itiot of course!