Musings of a former chicken

naneh man gharibam

Ask the "Persian friends" to explain to you what this means.

-

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9

Thanks for your concern

Dear Aryana,

I certainly do not take your words as a joke.

I am not an organisation but an individual. Somehow you seem to feel the need to de-personalize me. Still I welcome your concern. Whenever appropriate I play my part in addressing apparent uncivilized or arrogant behaviour in any organisation that I belong to, including the baha'i community. Although baha'is are far from perfect and many institutions still immature, I have fortunately not been much exposed to such behaviour.

If you refer to the court case I still fail to see how that reflects uncivilized or arrogant behaviour. I also fail to see how the loss of that case could have such dramatic consequences as you paint.

Be that as it may, I appreciate your concern for the welfare of the baha'i community

Best wishes, Martijn

'Martijn

You as an organization have been put on notice. I've said to you what you needed to hear. Heed the advice you've been given here for your own sakes and start behaving more civilized with less arrogance, or risk bringing unbelievable grief and suffering upon yourselves as an organization (from East and West to North and South) much worse than Scientology ever did! If you as an organization are not prudent from here on out and do not follow the dictum of 'live and let live' your loss in two US courts can potentially be the first step in opening a pandoras box which will potentially see your organization literally shut down in a generation just like Scientology was in France! This is not a joke so don't take it as one.

You have been served!

-

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9

'Aryana'

Ok, I give in, I'll give the quotation marks a try

"... in the sociopathology of the
cult groupthink and mindset you belong to the presumption of your moral
righteousness in any given situation (and the converse imputation of
moral unrighteousness to your given adversary) is already a given
whereby as such any end then justifies the means for your type."

Looks like we're more alike than we might have guessed. Are you (still) one of us after all Aryana?

"... when you pay millions of dollars to lobbyists
and advertising agencies to peddle exclusively your agendas, using human
rights promotion as a corporate advertising gimmick and implimenting it
as if you were peddling a product against a competitor, ..."

I'm not paying anything to lobbyists or advertising agencies. Anyway, I fail to see how raising awareness about the persecution of bahais in Iran equates to what you describe.

"... that means
there is less attention available to the plight of other communities and
other issues. In other words you are monopolizing the agenda with your
own exclusive concerns as opposed to others"

No I don't think it works that way. Raising the issue of the baha'is also raises awareness about other human rights issues in Iran. Some of these other issues are on occasion mentioned in statements by the baha'i community. Would you think it would be beneficial to the situation in Iran if the bahai community would pay more attention to other human rights issues in Iran in their public statements?

"... whereas before they were mercilessly harrassed by
your organization, from here on out the rules of that game have changed
forevermore. You either play fair from here on out with these new
established rules..."

I'm sorry I don't follow. What exactly do you mean with 'mercilessly harassed'? Are you referring to the court case?  How have the rules changed? What was 'unfair' with the earlier 'play'? What are the 'new established rules'?

"... so you are being put on notice to watch your steps
from here on out, clean up your act and quit your aggressive behavior
(even as a pragmatic self-protection strategy) or you will without a
doubt be facing extremely dire consequences."

'Watch my steps' and 'clean up my act'? Can you be more specific about how I should change my behaviour? In what way have I been aggressive? I realize you may not mean me personally but the bahai community in general - in that case I guess my question applies to the behaviour of the institutions representing that community.

Blessings

Martijn

stavakoli

واعظان کین جلوه در محراب و منبر می کنند
چون به خلوت میروند آن کار دیگر می کنند

'Martijn'

 I do not see a 'dirty tactic' in trying try to protect the name of the faith community by an appeal to the law of the
country. 

Of course you wouldn't given that in the sociopathology of the cult groupthink and mindset you belong to the presumption of your moral righteousness in any given situation (and the converse imputation of moral unrighteousness to your given adversary) is already a given whereby as such any end then justifies the means for your type. In that regard you are exactly like the mullahs and the Islamists (not to mention fascists in general) because they also think and behave the same way as you do.

This would indeed be a dirty tactic - and is has been used  extensively by enemies of the bahai faith, most prominently Islamic clergy for 140 years.

It is, and it has been done by your cult as well on an extensive basis, especially as regards to its blatant whitewashing, conflation, reimagining and outright lying regarding Babi history and the Bayani community.

Interfering in personal lives is not allowed in the bahai faith, in extreme cases contact is avoided with individuals who actively work to undermine cohesion in the community under the guise of being a member of that same community.

This is doubespeak, not to mention a lie, especially in light of pp. 15-16 of this (final paragraph),

//bahai-library.com/published.uhj/counsellors.html

 Also, I do not see how that 'overshadows' other very real human rights violations in Iran.

On the most basic level when you pay millions of dollars to lobbyists and advertising agencies to peddle exclusively your agendas, using human rights promotion as a corporate advertising gimmick and implimenting it as if you were peddling a product against a competitor, that means there is less attention available to the plight of other communities and other issues. In other words you are monopolizing the agenda with your own exclusive concerns as opposed to others.

 Various alternative communities (or groups) have certainly made no secret of their existence and aims over the last century and have had plenty of opportunity to manifest themselves freely and will continue to do so.

That they will, but whereas before they were mercilessly harrassed by your organization, from here on out the rules of that game have changed forevermore. You either play fair from here on out with these new established rules or face the possibility of being relegated to a situation not unlike what happened to Scientology in France. 

Are you hoping for that to happen or is it a genuine warning out of compassion?

This will happen and so you are being put on notice to watch your steps from here on out, clean up your act and quit your aggressive behavior (even as a pragmatic self-protection strategy) or you will without a doubt be facing extremely dire consequences.

- 

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

So, since I actually have work to do and work for a living (had a long weekend here in the US and figured I would play along with you, but now it's back to real life for me), I will say these last few words and be done with this whole blog.

I have tried over the past few days to rationally show that most of you spew out is conjecture, but I really did not have to do that because of the fact that most of what you say is transparent anyway, based on no real proof (heard from some of my Baha'i friends that I stay in contact with, really? Should we include this with the rest of your "documented stuff"?) and mostly the product of hatred.  However, as we have come to this conclusion with you before, you are not going to see the truth for what it is.  I was thinking about this last night and it occurred to me that maybe you should go back and read what you have written on this blog.  No one with as much hatred in their heart will be objective.  Did you hear that? No one with that much hatred is objective, they can not be, it is impossible. So, first and foremost you have to wipe the hatred off your heart before anything else happens.  A rather intelligent person like you should be able to do that.  Review what you have read/written before, not only on this blog but elsewhere.  Do you honestly think you are the only really well-read and intelligent person who fell prey to their own narcissism? History is full of people like you (Jamal Broujerdi, Ibrahim Kheirollah, Rouhi, Remey, Sohrab, .... to name a few).   Think about your contribution to the world, Hosein Ali as you call him has more than 100 volumes worth of work none of which invite to hatred and wiping out populations or anything other than what leads to the unity of Mankind and love amongst them? He has 6 million followers around the world (by the way, I find Naseem Khan's references to the "real" number of Baha'is around the world rather amusing; really referencing some blog from someone nobody knows, yeah that is reliable information; come on people, get with the program, real proof please), not one of which harbors any hatred towards you or anyone else for that matter (well, most of them don't even know you).  Their "agenda", my agenda is out in the open, we want people to know about Baha'u'llah as I call Him and the Faith and decide for themselves.  I have friends, acquaintances, and relatives who have for one reason or another left the Faith or have quit having an active role in the Faith.  No one has gone "after" them, no one harasses them, just because you say we have done this in your case doesn't make it true you know.  Show proof, I can say you have harassed me on a daily basis, but where is my proof?  I don't have any.  

Now as it comes to this blog, the sad thing is that you actually think there are a whole host of people reading this thing, when in all actuality and probability there are probably about 6 at most.  I have put in all this time not for the readers but for you because I believe there is still time for you to wipe the hatred from your heart and not become a Baha'i, but to live your life without that hatred in your heart.  In other words:

 من آنچه شرط بلاغ است با تو میگویم

تو خواه از سخنم پند گیر، خواه ملال 

والسلام

A bit late reponse ...

Dear Aryana,

"Suing rival communities for trademark infringement (as if a
religion or ideology is a product) in the attempt to drive them out of
existence, is a dirty tactic and strategy."

I do not see a 'dirty tactic' in trying try to protect the name of the faith
community by an appeal to the law of the
country. For better or worse, the court decided against the National Spiritual
Assembly. Incidentally, it was Mason Remey himself who filed the first lawsuit
against the NSA of the US accusing that institution of trademark violation.

Whitewashing, rewriting and re-imagining the collective memory in order
to project your own triumphalistic narratives as truth (when they are
not), is a dirty tactic and strategy.

This would indeed be a dirty tactic - and is has been used  extensively
by enemies of the bahai faith, most prominently Islamic clergy for 140 years.

"Interfering in the personal lives of individuals who break away
from your organization and even denounce its abuses, is a dirty tactic and
strategy."

Interfering in personal lives is not allowed in the bahai faith, in extreme
cases contact is avoided with individuals who actively work to undermine
cohesion in the community under the guise of being a member of that same
community. Shoghi Effendi's guidance in this regard is: "...the mere fact
of disaffection, estrangement, or recantation of belief, can in no wise detract
from, or otherwise impinge upon, the legitimate civil rights of individuals in
a free society, be it to the most insignificant degree. Were the friends to
follow other than this course, it would be tantamount to a reversion on their
part, in this century of radiance and light, to the ways and standards of a
former age: they would reignite in men's breasts the fire of bigotry and blind
fanaticism, cut themselves off from the glorious bestowals of this promised Day
of God, and impede the full flow of divine assistance in this wondrous
age."

"Brazenly monopolizing the human rights agenda and by so doing
overshadowing the concerns of other communities, is a dirty tactic and
strategy, ad nauseum."

With all means at their disposal bahai institutions work to call attention
to the very real persecution of baha'is in Iran, which is the only (and
indirect) protection that can be provided. This is not dirty at all. Also, I do
not see how that 'overshadows' other very real human rights violations in Iran.

thankfully, as a result of its mind boggling stupidity that has made your
community lose face, the playing field has now been leveled out allowing
alternative Bahai communities to play equally on the religious market as you
have been. Things have now changed forever in that regard"

Various alternative communities (or groups) have certainly made no secret of
their existence and aims over the last century and have had plenty of
opportunity to manifest themselves freely and will continue to do so. At most
they had bit more attention in the press. Be that as it may, I presume no love
is lost between you and those groups given that they still accept Bahaullah as
Manifestation,  Abdul-Baha  as the Centre of the Covenant and, some
of them, Shoghi Effendi as (first) Guardian. I guess you are just happy that
they oppose the bahai administration ;-)

indeed, if your specific Haifan organization exhibits in the post-IR
Iran the same kind of malicious behavior and brazen arrogance that just got an
entire chicken coup full of eggs landed on its face in two US courts, expect a
massive backlash from other communities against yours.

Are you hoping for that to happen or is it a genuine warning out of compassion?

Best wishes, Martijn

PS why do you use quotation marks when writing my name? It looks silly.

Orthodox Baha'is are 50 (?)

They are definately more than 50 but the Haifans are How many ?
//bahaicensusindia.blogspot.com/
//iranian.com/main/blog/ravian-bilani/bah...

VVVVVV

When has the regime behaved rationally (or your organization, for that matter) that you seek a rational answer as to why it has done what it does? But the more appropriate question is why has there been an ad hoc National Assembly of Iran in the form of the Yaran (formely Ma'arif-e-Bahai) operating in Iran in the first place? And why until quite recently when the regime knew quite well about the existence of this body did it move to act against it? This is the question that goes to the very heart of the issue of your organization's under-the-table connections to the regime.

The answer as to why the regime arrested these individuals is pretty self-explanatory on one level, however. They did it for their own internal PR propaganda purposes, especially in placating a hardline constituency internally. But even then, some of the activities of the Yaran were raising eyebrows all over the world and there were countless allegations of corruption and authoritarian behavior emerging from Baha'is themselves against it, especially regarding Mr Khanjani. From what I heard from disenchanted Iranian Bahais in contact with me the corruption, nepotism and favoritism of the Yaran (aka Ma'arif) was on the level of the regime itself, and so far as my information shows some Iranian Baha'is themselves had made outstanding complaints against it to the government - this is going back to the time of Khatami.

Now all of the things you say apply even more so to the 23 Gonabadi dervishes as well as to many others. But we don't ever hear a whimper from you Haifan Bahais about the plight of other communities while you expect everyone in the world to beat their chests exclusively for you without any question or criticism. Why is that? 

These people will be released because they will become a PR liability to the regime if held any longer than necessary. They are also primarily being used as bargaining chips with the West. Since their sentences were commuted so fast likewise will their release come just as fast, so once the regime gets what it wants from the West, these folks will also walk. I say this from studying the patterns in the regime's irrational behavior and the time frames where similar things like this have happened before.

- 

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9

commuted

Thank you for your explanation.  Now kindly explain why these guys deserve to be in prison even one day without any proof? There was no proof of any wrong doing.  Even you, as twisted in mind as you are, know that if there was such proof the IRI would have put it on every TV channel, radio station, newspaper and everything else they could find.  But there was not.  So, again, I ask you, having established that the regime is in bed with as you call us "the Haifan Baha'is", why would they imprison the 7 leaders even for one day much less for 5 years (by your calculation).  How do you know that they will be released in 18 months, why not 17 months, why not 20 months? Where is your proof? You go on a rant and call us demons, but you are the one without any proof.  They reduced their sentence because there is no proof for any wrong doing and they had no reason to have them in jail to being with. This regime, even though dictatorial and evil in every sense of the word, is under very close scrutiny of the outside world.  They do from time to time do things that no one can explain, for example they let one of the three hikers go, why did they do that? They must be in bed with her family; yes that's it; yet another conspiracy unveiled by the great Aryana.  You should write a book about the nonsense you're peddling; no one would buy it, but you should write one anyway.  It would probably have a calming effect on you. Actually you should include your manifesto at the end of it, it's good for a laugh.  What, you don't think people don't know about your claims do you?  Like I said before, find yourself a jacket, it's white with straps that go around to the back.  

Ignorance and illiteracy as a product of RUHI institutes

It means their sentences were reduced. A commuted sentence does not necessarily mean they will be released - which I believe they will be anyway within the next 18 months. It means the sentence is reduced and amended from what was initially handed down. A commuted sentence may involve a release or it may not. But that stated, can you explain how this could've happened in the case of the Yaran but not others like Sakineh and the 23 Gonabadis?

The level of ignorance and adamant stupidity of you Haifan Bahais does not cease to amaze me at times especially where we are dealing with otherwise together people who should know better. Yet the level of triumphalistic sectarian arrogance and brainwashing that is instilled into you people over a lifetime makes such dark, ugly and utterly pathetic souls out of you all that the ignorance and stupidity is a natural and inevitable outgrowth of the darkness you people inhabit as a matter of course. Where I come from, you are what we call demons. Luckily the universe has answered and you have been slapped silly by it and your demonic nature revealed to the world for what it is.

- 

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9

Commute means what?

I failed to refute really? Who sentence was commuted? What does commute mean I asked you.  If their sentence was commuted, shouldn't they be out now? How come they're still in prison.  This one claim of yours is proof for the invalidity of the rest of your claims.  They are still in prison, do you understand that? Their sentence has not been commuted.  I don't have to refute a false statement.  It's night here, if someone walks in and says there is a nice sun out tonight, I don't have to refute it, I have to call EMS to come take him in a straight jacket.  The only question I have for you is where is yours?

Kashkeh khodetoon sabideh shod

Khomeini's lawyer was picked for him based on his friendship with Ishraq-Khavari and the various Baha'is who had helped him over the years. Yes, Ishraq-Khavari was a clergyman before he joined your organization. But he and Khomeini continued their friendship. The fact that no bloody, genocidal pogrom was unleashed against your community after the devolution, and that your community was left relatively unmolested compared to what could have happened to it, proves Khomeini was protecting you people on one level. Khomeini also disbanded the Hojjatiyeh and had its leaders incarcerated. Surely even you know that.

I see you have failed to address the fact regarding the commuting of the sentences of your 7 Yaran members when Sakineh and the 23 Gonabadis remain on a razors edge. Go figure. Add to that the allegations in 2006 from India that members of your community had broken into Indian military facilities and sold information to the governments of Iran and Israel, and no question remains anymore that you have your hands in the pockets of the regime.

Husayn 'Ali's quotation of Hafez, since he could never compose a verse anywhere as good as the Tongue of the Unseen from Shiraz, is good for his auntie (be dard amash mikhoreh) as is your quotation of it! 

- 

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9

VVV

Really now? Khomeini picks a Baha'i lawyer because he knows he can't trust anyone else, or maybe the lawyer was a good one, or maybe no one else was available to him, or ... This is your proof, really? Khomeini killed the Hojatiyyeh, really? did he now? Khamenei and his cohorts are very well known Hojatiyyeh members; you of course have proof for what you say; that, we should take on faith.  Khomeini and his death angles killed a bunch of people, most of whom were direct threats to his devolution (as you call it), he had a reason to kill them, what was his reason to kill 200 some Baha'is? To make things look good? really? These are your indisputable proofs right? Come on.  Proofs have been provided on this fora and other places? Like what? Dalgoureki provided proofs too, should we believe him too?  Ishraq-Khavari was a clergy man before he was a Baha'i, obvious things do not need disputes, we do not dispute his friendship, because it is irrelevant.  We do not really care what you think or say by the way, you probably haven't picked up on the fact that I am just toying with you, but most of the "objective observers" should by now have figured that out.  To me, the rest of the Baha'is and Baha'u'llah this Hafez poem fits this situation:

ای مگس عرصه سیمرغ نه جولانگه توست 

عرض خود میبری و زحمت ما میداری

in other words, boro kashketo besab 

VVV

Whether deliberately or by oversight, you forget I am an ex-bahai and know you people, your organization, your twisted minds,  insular cult culture and your ways better than you sometimes know yourselves. I know all your dirty tricks and everything you people have attempted to conceal about yourselves from the rest of the world.

That aside, the linkages between the Haifan Bahai organization and the founder of the Islamic republic of Iran, Ruhollah Khomeini, are indisputable given the facts that have been presented. None of you dispute that Khomeini's attorney who got him off after the riots he incited in the 1960s was a Bahai. None of you dispute his long friendship with Abdu'l-Hamid Ishraq-Khavari. None of you can dispute the manner in which Khomeini clamped down on your worst pre-revolutionary era enemies, i.e. the Anjoman-e-Hojjatiyeh. What you cannot also dispute is that as compared to a meagre 200 some odd people who were executed after the 'devolution' (as compared to a community you have claimed at the time to exceed 100,000 people) hundreds of thousands of non-Bahais were violently killed by the regime. Given such facts, and countless more which have been endlessly presented in other fora, any objective observer will rightfully conclude that there is a gross disparity between your claims and the actual reality of things; and that given this, it is fair to conclude that there is a longstanding connection between your specific organization and powerful elements of the regime. That the regime has also bent over backwards recently in commuting the sentences of your 7 Yaran members under international pressure, when it has been reluctant to do so in other cases (i.e. Sakineh, the 23 Gonabadis, etc), merely reinforces the point and strengthens the case that there are surreptious connections between the Haifan Bahai organization and the IRI. Robert Dreyfuss merely drew attention to the obvious some 30 years ago.

- 

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9

LOL cont'd

Well, thank you for explaining how the Baha'i administration works. You are in the end correct however, your tone of voice, your true hatred for people you do not understand, my calm and collected responses to your name calling (remember, I have only stated facts, I am not the one with a bunch of aliases, I am not the one who threatened the other party, I am not making accusations about relationships that do not exist but in someone's mind (like the relationship between the Faith and the IRI) without having any proof), are enough for whoever reads this blog to understand where I come from and how your mind works.  I hope you stay safe and wish the best for you as always.  

VV

For the edifiction of others, and as a means of wading through the doublespeak of the Haifan Bahai Internet Agency hacks trying to muddy waters with misinformation: the Haifan based Bahai universal house of justice (the head of this majoritarian Bahai sect) had its representative in the United States, the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States, sue the Orthodox Bahai group and the Bahais Under the Provisions of the Covenant group in 2006. Since the uhj technically will not bring a lawsuit in an American court under its own auspices, and since it has direct representation to do that for it (i.e. the NSA), this lawsuit was in fact initiated by the uhj itself via its conduit the US NSA. This is so because the top-down administrative hierarchy and modus operandi of this organization does not allow for any independent decision making by any branch of its organization without first being given the go-ahead and approval of its superiors above, viz. here the uhj.

Like their Islamist counterparts in Iran and elsewhere, people should note that the individuals representing the Bahai Internet Agency of the Haifan organization here are still insisting on defining who is and who is not a Bahai, when all the oral arguments of the recently lost case will show that under US law they are in no legal or constitutional position to do this. Whatever these people say, there are in existence multiple Bahai sects. What the Haifan Bahai organization and its members think or do not think about them is irrelevent. Yet the attempt to besmirch, ridicule or otherwise deprecate the history, personalities and existence of these groups constitutes a form of egregious interference with these groups - an interference that the individual in question has claimed is not happening. Folks should especially note the double-standards of these Haifan Bahais who were Iran and the IRI are concerned are ready to cry foul regarding the regime's definition of these people as heretics (and other pejorative deprecations hurled at them and their beliefs) but these people themselves are quite ready and eager to do exactly the same thing where other schismatic Bahai groups are concerned.

I trust that this conversation has proven yet again that these individuals and their organization cannot remotely be trusted on any claims they make regarding themselves, and that we are indeed dealing with a self-righteously arrogant, close minded and double-standard mentality just like the IRI itself. 

- 

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9

LOL

Good, finally you are getting a little fun out of this.  I hope you giggled a little.  Again, we as Baha'is do not give a hoot, I don't really care what the NSA (although, I should mention you said UHJ first and now you're saysing NSA, so which is it, the NSA sued or UHJ; but I digress), did in that particular case.  I do not have double standards in my life.  The Faith, as it stands carries a name and the name means something to the general population.  At most, the NSA, does not want that name sullied, otherwise there is nothing to be gained or lost by letting a bunch of people going around calling themselves something they are not, as they are not Baha'is.  There, afterall, is a definition for who is and who is not a Baha'i.  Merely losing a court case does not make it right for the other guys to call themselves Baha'is just because they "figure" they are right.  Baha'is Faith's principles are written down in plain language.  There aren't a whole lot of doubts that Remey for example was not a Son of Abd'ul Baha, but crazy as he was (read his life story, he appoints people, then he takes their positions away, he calls himself the head, then he is not the head, he really and truly did lose his mind unfortunately), he decided to go after this and did fail miserably whether you believe it or not.  The rest of his followers and others like him are going the same way he went, no one in their right mind would argue that.  Years ago, I had a friend who belonged to the Church of Latter Day Saints, he told me they refer to everyone else as Jew!  Well, I figure there already is a definition for the word Jew, but apparently he figured they can go around calling everyone Jew.  There is no quarrel, if you want to go around calling a table a pencil be my guest, but for the rest of us, a table has four legs and a flat surface on top and people sit around it...

It's been nice to talk to you, you are an amusing fellow. 

LOL

Like I said, you are sore losers. This here below is hilarious and just too rich because of what it reveals about how bad this blow is to your collective morale, not to mention the depth of your double standards, whatever else you say:

The last time I checked, we as Baha'is don't really give a hoot what the Orthodox Baha'is and the like do.  

Pray tell, if this were true, then why did the US NSA see fit to sue said organizations for trademark infringement? Obviously it gave a hoot, and quite a bit too! 

True, personal beliefs are no one's business but their own. So given this, as an organization kindly stop interfering in the personal beliefs of other individuals and groups which do not accord with yours. If the principle behind such mazloom-nama'i/feigning victimhood on your part is applicable to you, it certainly applies more so to the other groups here. As such the next time you people descend into your well known double standards and either ridicule or in any other manner interfere in the personal beliefs of other individuals, I'll be sure to be here and remind you of your own words!

Happy quaking. May I suggest wearing Doc Martens as the best brand of boot to quake in :) 

-

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9

Circling the wagons

We are hereby shaking in our boots inasmuch as we have lost these cases in the court.  The last time I checked, we as Baha'is don't really give a hoot what the Orthodox Baha'is and the like do.  The legalities of the Faith do not concern me or any other individual Baha'i.  I was just trying to make a point.  But, I was mistaken as you do not see points, I am sure. I was however, sorely disappointed since you did not make a personal attack against me this time, I guess you've figured out we don't get scared easily.  

In any case, one's personal beliefs as I have mentioned before, are their own preference and it is none of your business, or anyone else's for that matter.  I hereby relieve you of your duties of informing the poor souls who are getting trapped by the web of deceit we Baha'is are weaving for no apparent gain!!!

 Good luck with the rest of your endeavors. 

Sore losers

Personalize the issue as much as you wish. Circle your wagons as much as you wish. Play the victim as much as you wish. But the irrefutable fact of the matter is that your so-called covenant and its so-called present center in Haifa has been proven in two US courtrooms now to be a complete joke and a farce with no power or truth behind it other than hot air. The uhj initiated these lawsuits and it has lost. In the process it has proven itself and your entire community to be composed of a bunch of power hungry, fanatical creeps, and because of it you have lost face. In short you people have been slapped in the face by the universe.

Will you learn from this experience and take the lessons you need to learn from it and move on? I doubt it because the fact that you cling to your arrogance and adamant stupidity in this conversation by digging in your heels is proof that your organization is fast being relegated to the dustbin of history where it rightfully belongs and that others have now stepped into the fray equalizing the situation with multiple Bahai communities as your perpetual contenders forevermore - multiple Bahai faiths which your organization can no longer bully. Luckily it is by your own hands and your own stupidity and arrogance that you are burying yourselves, so happy digging. Your so-called covenant is a fiction and a mirage. It has nothing behind it and this court case proved it. Given this, pray for yourselves. I don't need your prayers, but you might need those prayers for yourselves. 

FYI note New Zealand and Australia are two separate countries. You might wish to amend your RUHI book accordingly.

@Faryar, I know very well that you Haifans are masters of doublespeak, deception, smoke and mirrors and sleights of hand, and that to you people up is down and down is up. The uhj is the leader of your community, and besides the uhj there are leaders in your organization. Call it whatever else you like if it makes you feel better, and continue deluding yourself with whatever other label that makes you happy, but that is what it is, leadership.

- 

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9

stavackoli

Thank you for the sound advice...

:)

faryarm 

The "Bahai Baseej" and other weed induced titles he likes to call Bahais :)

According to one of  Aryana/Nima Hazini's attack blogs on Google  

No One Bahai Holds Authority over The Other...

You Know Full Well... Aryana/Nima/Wahid Azal etc :)

That no single Bahai or any elected memember of any Bahai Assembly from the local to National to International House of Justice, has absolutely any personal power or authority.

Bahai Leadership rests on the shoulder of democratically elected local and  national, institutions that continue to evolve and mature.

Unfortunately , it is you who ad nauseum tries so desperately to paint a picture of disunity.

Regarding the case against the illegitimate use of the name Bahai etc, 

What is revealing in  the court's obvious unease, is the revelation in its research and documents of the kind of successive behind the scenes conflict and quest for leadership by the defendants, the various violators of the Bahai Covenant.

Nima, Aryana, one can not honestly take your pathetic bias seriously... 

Compared to the history of disunity amongst these pretenders, The Bahai Faith stands in stark contrast, as it has without a single leader, since the passing of Shoghi Effendi, devoted with utmost faith  and certainty to the Covenant of Baha'u'llah, which has and will undoubtedly continue to safeguard the healthy growth and guarantee the Unity of The Bahai Faith,in its quest for universal unity.

Court Case

Dear Faryar and Muscle-defender,

 I am not sure why you waste time discussing things with this poor soul (Aryana, Wahid Azal, Nur, etc.), I bet he has forgotten what his real name is these days (Nima Hazini, BTW).  You talk about the miserable failure of the orthodox Baha'i movements of the past, he talks about a court case, the foundation of which is based on prevention of these people who have basically forgotten what the covenant means from using the name Baha'i, not to prevent people from reading their laughable arguments.  The Chicago Herald had an article about this, here it is for Nima's benefit:

//www.heraldonline.com/2010/11/25/2642982/orthodox-believers-can-keep-calling.html

Nima jaan, see how it says the group that was following Remey fell apart? that means miserable failure, maybe you should look up the meaning of miserable failure.  See how it says the Orthodox Baha'i movement is 50 strong? I would say that was a miserable failure.  No one really cares what you think, you might as well get used to the idea.  Your baseless accusations which are supported by conjecture and a bunch of articles that are non-existent anywhere except sources that have to be downloaded (would not recommend to anyone as Mr. Hazini is well-versed in computer world, and who knows what else travels with the files he wants you to download), are just that, baseless.  Everyone and every government is supporting the Baha'i faith in your mind, but you don't consider yourself a conspiracy theorist for some reason.  You say the sentences of the 7 Baha'i leaders have been commuted, but strangely enough they are all still in prison, I know this as one of them is my relative and three others have a very close relationship with me; what is your proof of their commuted sentence?  You say the people of Iran hate the Baha'is, we hear other stories from inside Iran, from people who are not Baha'is, who travel back and forth between here and Iran and who don't live their lives in some basement in New Zealand playing on the computer using Sourcewatch.  We do not harass you, you harass the people who leave comments on any blog that has the word Baha'i in it, do you not have anything else to do?  We don't care who you are, but you personally have attacked me on Iranian.com telling me about my relationships with other people, telling me how you know who I am and where I am and what I do and that I am being watched on Sourcewatch.  Apparently, you have forgotten you are talking to a Baha'i, we are not even afraid of the killers of the IRI, why would we be afraid of you?

We pray for you and all your aliases! 

Faryar & muscle-defender

 any one who has tried to claim leadership and cause schism since the passing of Shoghi Effendi in 1957 (and subsequently the election of Universal House of Justice with thousands of local Bahai assembles all over the globe, ) has failed miserably

Then how come your organization just failed miserably to convince two US courts of this? It appears the American legal system has conceded the very opposite to your proposition. 

Moreover the proposition that the Haifan Bahai organization has no leader is just pure double-speak and bunkum. The UHJ is the leader and head of the Haifan Bahai organization just as Joel Marangella is the guardian and leader of the Orthodox Bahai faith; as Neal Chase is the guardian and leader of the Bahais Under the Provisions of the Covenant; as Jaques Soghomonian is the guardian and leader of the other Orthodox Bahai faith, ad nauseum. The unified picture you are attempting to project is simply a myth, and two US courts right now have recognized the fact that what you say is a complete myth.

- 

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9

The name Baha'u'llah, Baha'i, Greatest Name,

UHJ, Counsellors, AMBs, Ruhi, NSA, LSA, xxxxxxxxx 'WERE' the registered trademarks of Baha'i International Inc. (Registered as a Company in almost all the countries)

Each Baha'i his own leader

Same thing stated another way is that each Bahai person is his own leader and exercises this self-leadership by electing the Universal House of justice members, etc

The name Bahai, belongs to those Faithful to...

The name Bahai, belongs to those Faithful to Baha'u'llah and His established Covenant; which today means acceptance of The elected Universal House of Justice, as well as Local and National assemblies; and not the self proclaimed leadership of any ambitious egos looking for religious following. 

The Bahai Faith has NO ONE leader; and any one who has tried to claim leadership and cause schism since the passing of Shoghi Effendi in 1957 (and subsequently the election of Universal House of Justice with thousands of local Bahai assembles all over the globe, ) has failed miserably.

The illegitimate use of the name Bahai ,will lead to nothing , as it has not in the past. 

I will recite Kafiroon in their ears

I will recite Kafiroon in their ears