If proof > poof.......... this should be fun!
I've been following this news bit about the Holocaust denying Bishop from South America. Nevermind the pope holy baba himself was a member of the Hitler Youth (imagine if M. Ahmadeinejad had... nevermind that!)
So now the part of the story has reached the top of the parabola of a news story. Bishop Dick Williamson (the darndest men seem to have that esteemed name, Dick) has been asked to shed his opinion that the Holocaust was not real, that Jews were really just sitting at their dinner tables in peace and no fear for their lives. Just say it and it'll be ok - right? Because all these years he thought it, saying now he suddenly regrets it will make it ok. That's how opinions are shed and people change their minds THAT quickly. Oh yes.
Of course, the Pope has been deeply shamed in public for this guy, having PROMOTED this guy recently to some dumb beaurucratic post in the "church" and what does this Bishop do? He acts like a complete jerk! The Vatican has demanded an apology from him too. But no. Dick Williamson says that he demands proof.
As a lover and admirer of religions for their deep foundations on truth and facts, I find this fascinating. Jesus was real yes he was. God is not just a spirit ghost waving his fingers/energy and making the world! Proof needed NO! Poof needed yes ok that's fine. It just feels so good to clasp your hands and look up to the sky.
But when it comes to this, the pesky Jews and their pesky persecution, this jerk needs proof. Hooray for religion. Peace from coast to coast. Love from desert to high mountain.
BTW have any of you seen the Ted Haggard documentary? All this guy liked to do was get high and enjoy a man and the church, instead of helping him through this "sin" sent him to roam the streets like a dog. He made all those a-holes rich. Filthy rich. I mean, he's not even allowed to live in his home state for Dog's sake! It's so IRI I can't imagine.
If Ted wants to make a come back, he needs to say what a hypocrite religion is - that he was the perfect model of how religions really treat people. There's your PROOF.
btw mr. pope, there is lots of PROOF that one of the funny hat wearing holy babas who preceded you ordered the mass killing of millions for a sexy extended period of time. And he told people that they would be going to heaven no matter what if they died! ahahaha. Now these catholics are telling us that we are all here on earth because our parents did not abort us. What lovely contributions. Where do I sign up?
Oh and I don't know about any other religious head figures who dare send the US president a letter/list of demands. Screw you. You did not campaign, America is not yours. By the way, here's a funny video (the vatican has a YOUTUBE account joy to the world wide web - don't try to rate the videos, they're all diabled :-( Check out the two hot women who come in with their Iranian veils to shake his hand. Cuz you know, the pope might get an erection and fall over at his age.
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You know i actually very
by Ariya-E (not verified) on Mon Feb 16, 2009 05:58 PM PSTYou know i actually very much so agree that we'll really just have to wait and see whats on the other side. I still think its a two way road on the spiritual side either way...
LOL most of your husbands claims are true!! (and i say most because we can exaggarate alot of times)
sometimes i think the truth
by anonymous fish on Sun Feb 15, 2009 05:50 PM PSTof religion is purely an individual belief. raised catholic and a believer (somewhat), i don't think any organized religion is 100% true... too many interpretations by man. it will be interesting to see whats "on the other side"... don't you agree?
i love the idea that the garden of eden is in tabriz. goes back to my husband's claim that "everything" orginated in Persia... :-)
oh its the truth for a fact.
by Ariya-E (not verified) on Sat Feb 14, 2009 01:50 PM PSToh its the truth for a fact. But are thier intentions, goals and visions righteous?
I think not. As a matter of fact I think the reason the Persian society as failed in this world is because of our good nature. (and im not talking about the likes of Dr. Kamrava.) Im no christian btw, im only spiritual since religion has destroyed the name of God, but even in the bible, we're mentioned quite a few times for our good deeds on helping the jews out and whatnot. and did you know theres a possibility that the Garden of Eden could be located in Tabriz??
Ariya
by anonymous fish on Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:23 AM PSTand do you think of that as a negative thing or possibly the continuing struggle of finding what the truth might truly be?
as if THAT'S a possibility...:-)
a few words: knights
by Ariya-E (not verified) on Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:18 PM PSTa few words:
knights templars, illuminaties, freemasons.
bohemian grove, skull n bones, n.o.w.
this is why everything is happening the way it is.
marge
by anonymous fish on Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:48 PM PSTif i wasn't already married, i'd buy you a mercedes benz. rosie has convinced me you're the woman of my dreams... :-)
roiban. what can i say... you're a class act all the way.
peace out.
AFish, Marge..
by rosie is roxy is roshan on Mon Feb 09, 2009 05:57 PM PSTNOW do you see that you two have a lot in common? Smart, sassy, honest, acerbic, loyal, passionate, compassionnate...what more can you ask for?
marge: ignore the part about the wedding gown, it would be a little bit over the top. The rest is all for you:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnEuJMy_E_E
For Afish and all those like us in search of g-d;
www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-GFqhCq2HA
.
you couldn't have said it better
by anonymous fish on Mon Feb 09, 2009 04:50 PM PSTreligion as an institution is corrupt. i must confess that all the conspiracy theories interest me... the templars and all that cool stuff. i rather like the idea that jesus was just a man and married mary magdelene and had a baby and all that human stuff. i never was a "bad" girl so i think i'm just jealous. this chick actually got to sleep with "the man"! now would that make you the most popular girl in school or what!
my mom is extremely close with Mary. i believe in her affinity 100%. my faith? well, like i said, it's hard to get your mind around some of the teachings... like the 7 days thing as princess says. my family is as catholic as the pope (oh shit, THAT's not a good thing) yet a brother is gay. go figure.
Actually AnonFish,
by rosie is roxy is roshan on Mon Feb 09, 2009 04:23 PM PSTif the Pope is traveling incognito here then I expect he's theMrs.
I have had for a long time an attraction to Catholicism. I don't believe n a "God upstairs" kind of thing of course but I do believe in Universal Mind and what the Buddhists call "The Heart of Compasson", in other words Energy capital E. And for me the Christian symbology of the Passion as in the suffering that is at the core of existence and its transcendence through Renewal, resurrection along with partaking of the body of Christ which is the body of us all with wafer and wine, the importance of the Mother, and of course Jesus' idea of turn the other cheek which was so revolutionary in his day..
and actually I took Communion once in an Episcopal Church in New York and they're so progressive..
but I lwant the whole nine yards, the sensuous of the iconography, the pageantry and so on...so if I can't become a Catholc I don't want to be a Christian..
but I can't be a member of a church that is anti-homosexual, abortion, etc. etc. so I never became a Catholic.
Marge, of course religion as an institution is corrupt and the Catholc Church has been among the most corrupt but the heart of a religion is its ideals. The ideals of Christianity were revolutionary as were the ideals of the secular Enlightenment (democracy, Universal Rights of Man, etc.) but human evoluton is slow to catch up with both its ideals and its technology. But hopefully we willspeed up a bit because if we don't our ass is grass.
May the force be with you,
Luke Jaywalker
you guessed?
by anonymous fish on Mon Feb 09, 2009 03:31 PM PSTwell, keep it to yourself. he likes going incognito. he also mentioned that you can contact him via his facebook page.
i'd like to point out that most Catholics don't believe every single word that comes from the pope, or the bible. i mean, really, do you expect me to believe that woman was really created from adam's rib? surely God could do better than that. :-) and this crap about the forbidden fruit? i am soooooo tired of being blamed for all of adam's faults. like, dude... if you aren't hungry, don't eat the damn thing.
jeez.
AnonFish, you missed it..
by rosie is roxy is roshan on Mon Feb 09, 2009 02:57 PM PSTbecause like you said we're all a little "raw" from the last couple of days.
Sushi, anyone?
As for what I want to know, do you think the blogger who calls himself "the Pope" here is really the Pope?
You ougtta know.
well i don't know how i missed this one...:-)
by anonymous fish on Mon Feb 09, 2009 02:14 PM PSTas the resident Catholic... can i join the party?
what do ya want to know...:-)
Dear I have crush...
by Princess on Mon Feb 09, 2009 03:31 PM PSTDefinitely your best! What is there to expect of these people who believe that the world was created in seven days and that Moses turned his staff into a serpent?
I once went along with a friend to a Sunday sermon - don't ask me how I ended there. The priest started by saying that Jesus was either mad, bad or God. Then he continued by explaining how he couldn't have been mad or bad, so he HAD to be GOD... that's when I got up and walked out.
That's what religion does to people. Of course it's not just Christianity it's all of them. You are spot on with the irony of a so called religious person - including our own Ahmadinejad- asking for historical proof.
That was a great one, thanks!
Yes, yes but,
by Multiple Personality Disorder on Mon Feb 09, 2009 03:32 PM PST...and I mean but , not butt. As we say in Farsi, pardon me in Persian, ma maasaajh daarim taa maasaajh, which loosely translates to, there is a big difference between massaging a number than massaging a little kid’s butt.
Multiple Personality Dude this is not a "massage"
by I Have a Crush on Alex Trebek on Sun Feb 08, 2009 07:51 PM PSTit's a full blown you know what home run with happy ending. 5.7 million people?
Also, you can't use the word Massage and talk about the Catholic Holy See Vatican - it's like one of the banned words. I think its how all those law suits started. "Massage".
I know, I know
by Multiple Personality Disorder on Sun Feb 08, 2009 07:40 PM PSTI know he denied Jews being gassed and burned in ovens, so his number was off by 5,700,000. That’s what I’m saying, if he is willing to readjust his number, massage them so to speak, by let’s say 5-6 million, he could be a valuable asset to Vatican.
It's not about numbers - it's about GAS - not that kind
by I Have a Crush on Alex Trebek on Sun Feb 08, 2009 07:22 PM PSThe says that Jews were not gassed nor shoved in ovens. He was quite clear. I suggested a text - the Diary of Anne Frank - but maybe the Vatican can fly him (FIRST CLASS or PRIVATE JET At LEAST) to visit a gas chamber?
I change my mind all the time
by Multiple Personality Disorder on Sun Feb 08, 2009 07:18 PM PSTHey, I change my mind all the time. There is nothing wrong with that. If I call some idiot an idiot I don’t want it to be used against me for the rest of my life. Take George W. Bush for example, would I want it to be used against me just because once, or twice, I called him names? No! What if one day he becomes someone important? Would I want it to be used against me? Of course not. It’s the same thing with Bishop Dick. So what if he denied the Holocaust, it’s not like he molested kids. It’s not like he said “Jews were whining about Holocaust”, or anything like that, he just disputed the numbers exterminated. That’s all.
If he is willing to massage his numbers a little bit, the Vatican should allow him to do it, and if he is forced to apologize for mis-underestimating it before, well that’s not a big deal for the Vatican. It has happened before, and it won’t be the end of it. The Germans did it too, adjusting the numbers. Let’s say they came up with a number for how many trains it was needed to take the Jews to Death Camps, if it was too many, they reduced the number of trains and cramped more people in them. Numbers could be changed according to what outcome one expects to get.
my blogs rarely have a point
by I Have a Crush on Alex Trebek on Sun Feb 08, 2009 06:44 PM PSTHowever I think this is my most hopeful blog ever here. Religious people are asking for proof. I think it's great actually because now we can ask them for proof. Once a Christian told me "well jesus's toga was found so that proves the resurrection". That's what I'm talkin about!
I also went on about the crusades contradicting the church's money wasting campaign to tell us about the sanctity of life when they killed millions dating back to 1000 years ago, and use that same life to get jiggy with at young male age AND then cover it all up.
Regarding that "inviolability of life", the Pope holy Baba promoted back into the scene a guy who denies the death and genocide of Jews. It's all so classy and attractive. Religion has so much to offer us!
No point. Just the usual HUH?
Bunch of Pedrasts & Pedophiles
by Kurush (not verified) on Sun Feb 08, 2009 06:08 PM PSTI do not get the point of this blog: is it wrong for the Vatican to ask for recantation, or is it worng for the excom prelate to ask for the proof? Of course, these is a simple solution: the Holocaust crowd should provide him with the proof, or the Vatican should deign to do so, and the renegade then should recant. The converse is not acceptable, not providing him with the proof but asking him to submit to the dogma raises more questions than settling the existiang ones. The Vatican's own authority is of course open to debate. The Pope Pius XII is known as Hitler's Pope. Our historical memory is of course mercifully short, so is our attention span which is even shorter, so the Vatican thanks god every day that modern consciousness has big holes, gaps, lacunae all over it. Should we recall (god forbid if we do!) that it was Pope Urbanus who decreed and urged the Christian faithful to the Crusades in 1096 AD. of course the first victims of the Crusades were not the Moslems, the Jews in Europe, who went through Hell, were, as Jewish communities were eradicated overnight. The Jews remember it as Gzroth Tatnu. And the present Pope is not the epitome of immaculate perfection either: he was a soldier in the Nazi Flak defenses which means many a brave allies' bombers & pilots were doomed by his Grace's pot shots. And in case our short memory intervene again, let me hasten to mention that he did his best to suppress, earlier in the decade, the sexual holocaust in which thousands of children & grown ups had to recall their ordeal at the hands of the sheperds of the Catholic Church. It is well known fact that for decades, the Catholic Church has had a special fund to the tune of 100's of millions of dollars to bribe and buy the silence of the sexual victims of the holy pedrasts, buggers, pedophiles. Taken the fact that the Catholic Church has paid hundreds of millions of dollars for holy perverts, escapades with children, one may say that is one expensive F***! And please, I ask, who makes these sinners the moral authorities, if not some divine irony!?
Sweet Judy Blue Hair...
by rosie is roxy is roshan on Sun Feb 08, 2009 07:30 AM PSTI heard it. I put the volume loud.
Tomorrow I'll have my computer.
Tomorrow. Man~ana.
Fardaa roshanat.
Oh no!
by I Have a Crush on Alex Trebek on Sun Feb 08, 2009 07:02 AM PSTIf you can look past the bad sweaters and handle bar moustaches/ sideburns. I dedicate this to you! Turn up the music in the netcafe :) I hope your computer will be back with us soon so you'll be back soon.
My computer died...
by rosie is roxy is roshan on Sun Feb 08, 2009 06:47 AM PSTand it's in the shopand I dont have $ now because I lost my bank card last night because I was so upset. So I can't use the I'net cafe today after this. But I'll have the cash tomorrow.
And then I'll stop by here again.
And I just wrote a short blog I'd like you to read.
Thank you so much Margie ,for being..fire and flame, orange and gold..in a brown place and a brown time and a brown world..
Another Holocaust DID happen
by I Have a Crush on Alex Trebek on Sun Feb 08, 2009 06:35 AM PSTJavad, I know it's shocking but it's possible. Let's try again. What makes me upset about this Bishop is that at first he said "genocide? what genocide? only 300,000 Jews were killed".
Who is he to use numbers to qualify a genocide? Do you know who else did this? Saddam Hussein and Chemical Ali. They committed genocide against the Kurds. It happened during the 90's but began decades before.
THe kurds share genocide with the Jews and I think it's one of the reasons that when Kurdistan gain nationhood, the two will have a strong alliance.
This is one of the things I grapple with about the Iraq war. Yes it was a cluster F, but there are Kurds who have named their children after GW Bush. They were treated no differently than Jews during WWII. Certainly, they were liberated. I will never dispute that. America owed it to them. They are not like Iranians or Iraqis - they did not hire their dictators. I'm proud for the Kurds and I do not judge them for embracing George Bush, as much as he hurt the United States. But the Kurds are now a sitting target both for their cooperation and their new strength as a budding nation. Turkey is having dirty underpants on a regular basis for example. They can't keep their bombs to themselves. So yes, they were like most of Europe during the Holocaust - quiet and happy to have been targeted like the Kurds.
I believe we must study the Holocaust and yes, draw connections. It is something that can happen to any group. We have to watch ourselves. Human beings are overrated (I said this in Khar's blog before).
What?!!
by Javad Yassari on Sun Feb 08, 2009 01:06 AM PSTAn Iranian woman leading other Iranians in peaceful talk about the Holocaust?!!! You all are supposed to be saying something really contrary and controversial here, you know?!! Damn! Another boooring blog about peace, Iranian love stories, Persian literature, Iranian elections, nostalgia about Iran, and Iranians' views on sex! Triple Damn! No fights to pick! This must be so disappointing!
On topic, Madame Marge, to deny the Holocaust is to show that there is no shame. To deny any genocide is to show that there is no shame. Claiming ignorance is no longer an option in this century.
"There were many ways of not burdening one's conscience, of shunning responsibility, looking away, keeping mum. When the unspeakable truth of the Holocaust then became known at the end of the war, all too many of us claimed that they had not known anything about it or even suspected anything." - Richard von Weizsaecker
lets do our math!
by erunnee (not verified) on Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:39 AM PSTEvery human life is precious specially when they are innocent.I do not care wether they are black,white or any colour or if they are Jews,Muslim,christian or from any other faith.I condemn any crimes that is done against a large portion of population because of heir faith or colour.I am not trying to be funny and I am just quoting what I heard someone said about Holocaust.If we calculate the number of years that Nazis started to persecute Jews and the number of Jews who lost their lives we come up with a number that does not make sense mathematically.I am sure many Jews lost their lives under Nazi regime,but 6 million seems like an exaterated number.
Tsion get over it.
by rosie is roxy is roshan on Sat Feb 07, 2009 09:42 PM PSTGimme a break. Whadda ya think, someone PAID Marge?
Marge Jaan...
by ebi amirhosseini on Sat Feb 07, 2009 09:33 PM PSTThat was exactly my point,he doesn't deserve it as who he was/is; but what he was,an instrument of so called church hypocracy(though he has had few good deeds comparing to other pastors in his resume)! for that, I believe he desreves it.The system/church is treating him like this since he is not any more of use to them.Definitely his family don't deserve this.
sepaas
Ebi aka Haaji
To honor those who died in the Holocaust
by I Have a Crush on Alex Trebek on Sat Feb 07, 2009 09:25 PM PSTTo honor those who died and suffered, I think it is important not to use their experience as a political tool in any war or political maneuvering.
I'm going to wait for Rosie's blog to address the Israel issue. For now, please, Bishop Dick is in play. Wooohoo!
Shalom Zion...
by Khar on Sat Feb 07, 2009 09:15 PM PSTNobody here is against Jewish people and Judaism and yes Holocaust did happen and millions of people did die as the result of racism and hate! Having said that, today Zionism is creating a new Holocaust in Palestine as the Nazism did in Europe. My you find peace!