Jahanshah Javid

Indeed

I totally agree with you. Thanks my friend and keep on posting. Let us all challenge each other and grow together.

the dialog must go on (to Zion)

Zion, despite our disagreement I have always been happy to see you post here and as I mentioned to you once before the dialog must go on ...
--best regards

Don`t misunderstand me

I do not consider Mr. Javid by any means an Islamist or a fanatic of any sort either. No fanatic would tolerate free speech for long, and we are all using the venue he has provided us all anyway. I haven`t read as many comments, but from what I read he comes about as a rational man. unfortunately, it is possible for otherwise rational people to have specific delusions about `zionist` and their `conspiracies`. I have seen that many times before.
I am not personally hurt by any of this. As I said before, I get much worse stuff all the time. My reason for arguing in this case is a matter of principle.

It Is Still No Excuse (to Zion)

Zion, my friend, understandably you have extrapolated too much from those two words (Mmmmm blood). I say understandably, because I have seen some posters in this site who use that terminology very irresponsibly and not just against Zionist but against Iranians .... and that has added to your sensitivity.
Having read many of JJ comments in the past I know your extrapolation in this case is wrong ....
BTW, personally I believe the right terminology for those (in the power, not you) who advocate war against Iran is 'evil oil thirsty oil sucking oil junkies'. Remember what Alan Greenspan said about Bush/Chenney's Iraq war: “I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil,” ---

It Is Still No Excuse

I have never advocated nuking or obliterating Iran my friend. Quite the contrary, if you read my comments objectively and without your usual bias you will see that avoiding such a tragedy has been my main goal. But I didn`t really expect your type to let such opportunity pass. I also agree with you, and can understand, that despite the efforts to promote a free venue, Mr Javid has probably been suffering under the psychological pressure, as well as that of his fan base, of witnessing what he evidently percieves as his website being used by `evil bloodsucking` Zionists to promote their causes ... or something of the sort (None of which is true, of course.) Personally, I am happy for him, to see that he was able to seize this opportunity to let off some of that pressure and stand tall in front of his outraged fans. :-)
Unfortunately my understanding of his psychological and ideological insecurities still does not justify his remark. It does not remove the need for an apology, nor the need for a reminder that he should consider himself ethically bound by the same set of rules that he sets for others.

welcomed impunity (to Zion)

My friend Zion, I am one of those guys who does not mind that likes of John Bolton, Hillary Clinton, John McCain, ..., and you, come out and advocate obliterating Iran or "limited attack" against her.
I did not mind that my coworker (in the US) came to me right after 911 and point blank said Iran should be nuked (although 911 was done by the Saudis and American trained so called "freedom fighters" of Afghanistan!).
.... I sure don't have any respect for some ideals and ideas of you, ...., and Blotons ... but I appreciate that you express yourself clearly and explicitly ..... however I think it is unreasonable for you to expect that from everyone .... I have a thick skin you know!
BTW, Zion, like you admirer below feel free to add some racist rants to your "limited war" paragraph to enhance the "moral" level of your argument!

perspolis soccer club and a little old reply

They played yesterday and perspolis won. I would have loved to be there in azadi too bad I missed but I can still cheer for it.

replying to the oppsite fans: tou, tou che un koshe neshasti

                                        tou tou che un koshe neshasti

the rest of it I save for next session.

learn math from your mullah arabs 1st

when you lie atleast make it believable 75000000?

you meant 75000.

danish pastry 2

He is gone to pick up some danish pastry .after a limited war and little nice ethnic cleansy(ohhh make it 75,000,000 this time just to be on the safe side) you are going to celeberate, giving the fact every celeberation ofg yours is based on somebody's else misery, so a new feast  here you go, yet another the best of all persian-jews.

Responsibility

I am not primarily arguing legalistically here, although I do advise Mr. Javid to watch his language more closely. If, as you interpreted his words, what he has said is taken to be a blood libel, the target would not have been me personally but a clearly identifiable group of people who were historically victims of such vile accusations.

No, my argument is ethical. I am receiving worse attacks by commenters on this site on a daily basis, and as I said before I give little importance to them, for such language only proves the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of the individual who expresses them. The owner of the website is a different case however. This website engages in routine censorship by the pretext of avoiding personal attacks and vile language. As such, being the owner of the site he simply has to apologize and retract his words, unless he can clearly demonstrate that he had meant something entirely different.

Zion, that was amusing.

You must be joking, right? You really have some nerve threatening JJ.
"What you ended your last comment with could be mistaken with a libel."

yes, it COULD possibly be mistaken for libel IF your real name was used.

In response to your ROUTINE advocacy to BOMB and KILL my family, what Mr. Javid told you was WELL DESERVED.

That's some Chutzpuh.

Rights

To answer your last question: " Am I wrong?" ... I am happy to say, No, you are right.  In fact, this may be the most "right" on you have been in a long time!

We go through life building associations & memberships to political organizations, religions, and various other associations that we feel reflect our increasingly developped and defined belief system, and it is rare that any of these groups can not fail us at one point or another.  I think what you're asking is for every individual to establish a set of core values [hopefully in line with established human rights] and instead of blinding backing one group or another, provide "conditional" support to any and all groups who meet your individual core values and work towards attaining those goals that are important for you, SO LONG AS THEY STAY ON COURSE. 

It takes an enlightened mind to reach this level of understanding and to be willing to shed many many layers of associations and loyalties in order to only be loyal to one's conscious.  I hear ya!

Samsam1111

Thanks for your support. I assure you, the formation of the state of Israel was the healing of a grave old historical injustice itself.

Mr Javid

Sir, Your website deletes comments under the claim that they constitute deragetory remarks and personal attacks.
What you ended your last comment with could be mistaken with a libel. I think you really should clarify what you meant by it.

Limited war ... unlimited failure!? (to Zion)

Zion says: "In the case of Iran, if it comes to a situation were engaging in a limited war against the Iranian regime can prevent a nuclear holocaust"

my friend Zion, advocate a "limited war" against Iran ... this might turn into an unlimited failure for everyone including Israel. Remember what Rumsfeld said about Iraq: "It could last, you know, six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."!!!!?

Granted there is no shortage of extremists in Iranian government, they are way much less likely than Israel to start any war, "limited one", or a nuclear holocaust (assuming they get the bomb).
Look at the realities:
--IRI despite all the rhetoric has not started any war, even when it was seriously irritated by the fascist Talibans in Afghanistan.
--Israel on the other hand, during the same period has started at least two wars (Invasion of Lebanon in 82) the "unlimited disaster" and the 2006 "limited fiasco". Both of which Israel lost or at best did not win, and as a result many innocent Lebanese and Israelis died.
--Israeli lobby in the US (AIPAC) directly shares responsibility for Iraqi fiasco .... as George Soros says:
"I am not sufficiently engaged in Jewish affairs to be involved in the reform of AIPAC; but I must speak out in favor of the critical process that is at the heart of our open society. I believe that a much-needed self-examination of American policy in the Middle East has started in this country; but it can't make much headway as long as AIPAC retains powerful influence in both the Democratic and Republican parties. Some leaders of the Democratic Party have promised to bring about a change of direction but they cannot deliver on that promise until they are able to resist the dictates of AIPAC. Palestine is a place of critical importance where positive change is still possible. Iraq is largely beyond our control; but if we succeeded in settling the Palestinian problem we would be in a much better position to engage in negotiations with Iran and extricate ourselves from Iraq."

samsam1111

why remove the mullahs?

It's been 30 years. So let's live with IRI, just like you say we should do with Israel. What's done is done, right?

Comparing An ocean of injustice vs A droplet of a mischeaf

is an injustice itself. America vs Iran.

Give me a break!

And my Jewish friend Zion;I am born a shia and when i was a kid and prayed in namaz before mullah revolution I prayed for the well being of all nations muslim or non muslims contrary to some other messages from ali come lately muslims and eventhough I don,t think that inseption of Israel was evolved through a totaly fair process for Palestinians(which I pity).I think Israel is an entity now a nation just like any who deserve a path to future.those who wish it go away are ignorant ,,I congratulate you and your nation on your  60th birthhday & magnificent achievment. God bless all nations & your Jewish nation and I,m sure it will with or without the ill wishes of your foes.

What,s done is done.Israel is a fact.A nation that lives and breath.

If occupation is wrong then America must give the land back to Indians,Turks out of Christians 2nd holy land constantinopolis ,Arabs must get out of Iraq&Syria&lebenon.lalala.Russia must give our lands back.Iran owns bahrain,Iraq,Afghanistan and China out of tibbet.

It won,t happen .because it,s a fact.so live with it.and pray for peace and removal of mullahs.

,

Danish pastry

wonder if anybody here would like some!!!!just to sweeten their palates.

Jahanshah Javid

That was not the only case. Parthian had already given another good example. Indeed there has been many occasions in history were war was unfortunately necessary. You had stated an absolute position as a matter of principle and that was not a correct stance. In the case of Iran, if it comes to a situation were engaging in a limited war against the Iranian regime can prevent a nuclear holocaust in the Middle East, in Israel and Iran and elsewhere, then that war is definitely justified, whether you or I like it or not. It is important that such issues be open to debate and rguments, and it is important for the Iranian community to understand the situation clearly and make wise decisions to prevent a human tragedy in the making. By taking such absolutist positions and closing the door to rational debate you won`t be helping them.

Now, I have to ask you to clarify what exactly it is that you meant by that last sentence?

Thanks JJ

Dear JJ,
First, I wish to thank you for your excellent post. Then, I would like to point out that no matter what one writes, there are always those people who find a point or two to criticize the writer for them. Well, that goes with the territory. The territory that you have been bravely and patiently laboring to keep open -- freedom of expression.
I for one prefer to focus on your mostly excellent points and overlook any "flaws" that people smarter and more astute than I can locate and attack.
What I applaud about your post is a restatement of something that the late Dr. Martin Luther King said it so succinctly and so profoundly: "Injustice anywhere is threat to justice everywhere." This is a good enough reason for me to do all I can to combat any and all forms of injustice visited on anyone, anywhere.
So, thanks man. Thanks a thousand times for your excellent services. Don't ever become dis-heartened. Our Iran sorely needs people of backbone and principles. And that's the way I see you.

Zion, how about a deal?

Your point about Nazis and Fascists is interesting. But the reality is that no one went to war to free Germans and Italians from "fascism". They went to war to turn back the aggression of their government against other countries.

I will make you a deal. I will support war against any country in the Middle East that has attacked and occupied another country if you will do the same. Deal?

You got me

Ok. You found one just war -- that against Nazi Germany. Now go and continue to justify war/bombings against Iran... to defend human rights! :o)

Mmmmm blood....!

Parthian is right

Would you have called those who went to war against Nazi Germany and Fascist italy as anti-human?
Human rights and freedom need protection, they need to be fought for.
As it is said, those who are compassionate to the cruel will end up being cruel to the compassionate.

Mr javid you are absolutely right.

One question

Dear Jahanshah,

Do you feel like you should be passing judgement on whether or not people truly ascribes to these values?

How do you feel about people who take it upon themselves to publically lynch or prosecute others based on what they think those people really believe? Isn't that called fascism or vigilantism?

Religious zealots often claim they have access to higher truth. Unless other people do and say exactly what they want, they feel justified to attack, harrass and humiliate other people just because they think they are more right in their actions.

Why should it be any different when the zealots are secular, Monarchist, pro-war or anti-Islam ?

I agree with most of the sentiment in the article

Except "...if you are pro war, you can not be pro human rights.." What do you mean by that? you mean any war? The war in Afghanistan was completely justified. Even today, majority of Americans agree with that policy. Don't tell me, you are gone sit around while others kill your citizens, and destroy your cities. In an ideal world, you are right, but when human beings are involved, law of nature takes precedent. I know there is this reality out there for you idealists, hard to grasp; but we are animals, in many instances worst than animals. I know this argument is been made over and over,  but again, don't tell me  you were gone sit around while Iraq was over running Khuzestan in the early days of the war. There are instances, and legitimate justification for war.

Fred: This site has left no

Fred:

This site has left no doubt as to its political proclivities via selecting those who are in charge of censorship. However, this is not JJ's fault. It seems like that he is confused as to whether stay loyal to his close friends (mostly reformers) or loyal to his principles. It's not easy to get sidetracked sometimes and I'm sure it is not easy for him.

P.S.: I hope jj chooses loyalty to his principles.

No one has stopped you

Fred (or Zion), no one has stoppped you from publishing your stuff on this site. Javid has not practiced censorship. If the scale was tipped at one point towards those who according to you praised Khatami, there has been a steady stream of vitriolic attacks against the IRI too, especially in the past year. This site is absolutly loaded with attacks against the regime. That time the writers were mostly of a certain opinion but to my knowledge JJ has not rejected anyone who has had something to say and this at time much to the deteriment of his site's quality. You, sir don't understand JJ's approach, right or wrong. His whole approach has been to provide a universal forum for discussion, for dialogue irregardless of his own specific opinion. As to Iranian.com being a "forum for Islamist/anti-semites", you know what many people on this site think of you, that you are a zionist, a Mossad agent in disguise, etc. But I for one defend your right to say what you wish. If I don't like it I will counter with my argument. Go JJ!

Racism, misogyny,murder,

Racism, misogyny,murder, barbarism, violence, and violation of natural rights cloaked in any "religion" whether Islam, Christianity, or Jdaism shouuld be condemned vigorously. To not condone these acts, is to perpetuate the vicious cycle of violence on all humanity.

Religions(man-made fairytales) don't have rights; human beings do.

I agree with International declaration of Human Rights

But it should not be selective. That's the issue