اسطورۀ واژه های تازی شاهنامه


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Manoucher Avaznia
by Manoucher Avaznia
13-May-2010
 

بسیار مشاهده شده است کسانی از ایرانیان مدعی عدم وجود واژهگان عربی در شاهنامه شده اند.  برخی شمارۀ واژگان عربی موجود در شاهنامه را بسیار اندک شمرده اند.  البته، گرایشات سیاسی خاصی به این باور غیر واقعی دامن زده اند که در نهایت برای درک واقعی عمومی جامعه ایرنی از یک میراث فرهنگی مانند شاهامه زیانبار است.  از اینرو بر آن شدم تعداد 43 صفحه از دفتر پنجم شاهنامه را؛ از پادشاهی بهمن اسفندیار تا پادشاهی اسکندر، در جستجوی واژهگان تازی دوباره خوانی کرده، نتیجه را با لغتنامه آنلاین دهخدا مقایسه کرده، برای آگاهی همگان در این گفتار بیاورم به این امید که نگرشی عینی تر و واقعی تر به این پرسمان انگیخته باشم. نسخه مورد استفادۀ این جانب جلد دوم قطع جیبی؛ 11×17س.م، شاهنامه نشر مهراد چاپ تهران سال 1386 خورشیدی است که بر اساس نسخه چاپ مسکو چاپ و منتشر شده است. حجم این نسخۀ شاهنامه 1968 صفحه است. 

 

و اما واژهگان

 

1.  کافور

2.  کیمیا: واژه ای معرب شده است

3.  صف

4.  تابوت

5.  رسم

6.  ولیعهد: واژه مرکب

7.  ایمن

8.  صندوق

9.  عقیق

10.  عنبر

11.  حریر

12.  عنان

13.  دکان

14.  عَرَض

15.  سلیح

16.  منزل

17.  رعد

18.  برق

19.  خیمه

20.  رواق

21.  عود

22.  زهره: برابر نام فارسی ناهید

23.  طلایه

24.  فلک

25.  میمنه

26.  قلب

27.  جاثلیق:  واژۀ معرب

28.:  صلیب

29.  زلزله

30.  قیصر: واژۀ معرب

31.  کرسی

32.  طوق

33.  نثار

34.  نفس

35.  مسعود

36.  هدیه

37.  رمح

38.  حصار

39.  نعم

40.  مثقال

41.  مهد

42.  راهب

43.  سقف: اسقف

44.  نکهت

45.  عروس

46.  مال

47.  حکیم

48.  قضیب

49.  محب

50.  عدد

51.  نبات

52.  ترجمان

53.  هوا

54.  عاج

55.  مجلس

56.  نبید

57.  ساقی

58.  دهلیز

59.  فال

60.  فدا

61.  قیر: واژۀ معرب

62.  فخر

63.  فلک

64.  قطره

65.  خبر

66.  جفا

67.  کاف و نون: کُن 

68.  غریب

69.  عیب

70.  صافی

71.  صوفی 

72.  درم

برخی از این واژهگان مانند واژۀ صندوق در داستان داراب بالاتر از ده بار در همین چهل و سه صفحه تکرار شده اند. برخی به مراتب اندکتر تکرار شده اند. بیشترین این واژهگان بالاتر از دو بار آمده اند.  علاقمندان می توانند با مراجعه به شاهنامه صحت و سقم این
نوشته را ارزیابی کنند.

بیست و سوم اردیبهشت ماه 1388

اتاوا 


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Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Re: "the myth of Islam being"

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

Q is now quoting himself as proof! Boy that is a real good one! What a joke. I agree with Jamshid. I don't know if Q is even Iranian. He sure feels no connection to the people who lived there 1400 years ago. So he calls us names while he thinks those who leveled Estakhr were perfectly justified! His hatred of Iranians is very obvious.

PS,

People bragging about being Seyyed is fine but mention of Iran is racist!!


jamshid

"the myth of Islam being

by jamshid on

"the myth of Islam being spread by the sword has been debunked for ages now."

Tell that to your raped and murdered ancestors who tried to defend their country and culture against the Arab invasion 1400 years ago. It is not expected from someone like you to have shame, but "andaki" remorse towards the sad faith of your ancestors won't hurt either.

However, remorse is not required if you don't consider them to be your ancestors to begin with. Then we are fine.


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

The only

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

one obsessed with purity is you Q. You are the one who is going around calling people names and accusing them of all the crimes your IRI buddies do.

The rest of us are having a conversation while you scream "Nazi".


Q

To those obsessed with purity:

by Q on

ask any modern neoNazi or White Supremacist, the standard line is "I don't have a problem with culture X, just don't want it to be mixed with mine."

Replace what you say about Arabic with Spanish in America or French in UK and you will see how racist it really sounds.

If you said "we should purge Spanish words from English", that would be widely viewed as racist and bigoted. The second reason it is racist, is because of single minded obsession with "Arabs" and "Islam". Iran and Iranian languages, as I mentioned, have had influences from many many different places and cultures. Many of these influences also came after invasions (Greeks, Mongols, Turks, etc.) A lot of cultural artifacts remain as part of Persian heritage that were borrowed from other cultures throughout time. The tradition of Islamic miniatures for example is a direct result of Mongol influence. English and French words (and some Russian), for example are a direct legacy of imperialist influence in Iran. If you are sincere about what you say, you would be equally as "disturbed" about these other influences. Sadly, like many other people with this "obsession", you are not sincere. You are overly concerned on one single event 1400 years ago, but remarkably nothing that happened before or since to Iran.

Islam itself was greatly influenced by Iranians, by the way. Sheism, Sufism and mystic traditions of Islam would not be possible had it not been for Iranians. In fact, many credit Iranians with faster spreading of islam into central and Southeast Asia. So, if you hate Muslims, which I can tell by the insulting remarks about it that I regularly receive, you also hate Iranians, the majority of whom are Muslim. It's that simple really.

By the way, the myth of Islam being spread by the sword has been debunked for ages now. I wrote about it back here: //iranian.com/main/blog/q/myth-islam-spre...

Racist, by the way is an entirely appropriate word. The silly notion (usually advanced by Israelis as rhetorical sophistry) that for example, because Israeli Jews are "semetic" they can't be racist toward Arabs, is simply hogwash, no pun intended. The definition of racism, includes bigotry based on ethnicity. However, if it makes you feel better, we can use the term "bigot" or "fascist" or "Islamophobe" instead.

Once again, no one has a problem with intellectual pursuit of Iranian langauges. People, however, feel naturally offended when such pursuits are justified based on bigotry and racism and also false notions of history.


Manoucher Avaznia

تتمۀ هفتاد و چند واژه

Manoucher Avaznia


ترجمان

ز لشکر بیامد سپیده دمان

خود و نامداران ابا ترجمان

داستان آمدن سکندر به ...بیت هشتم ص.1153

 

عاج و طوق

تو گفتی که داراست بر تخت عاج

ابا یاره و طوق و با فر و تاج

همان داستان ص.1154

 

مجلس

چو نان خورده شد مجلس آراستند

می و رود و رامشگران خواستند

همان داستان ص.1154

 

ساقی

بدو گفت ساقی که ای شیرفش

چه داری همی جام زرین به کش؟

همان داستان ص.1154

 

نبید

بفرمود تا زو بپرسند شاه

که جام نبید از چه داری نگاه؟

همان داستان ص. 1154

نبید در عربی شراب خرما را گویند: دهخدا

 

خیمه

نگهبان فرستاد هم در زمان

به نزدیکی خیمۀ بدگمان

همان داستان ص. 1155

 

فال

به گردان چنین گفت که آباد بید

بدین فرخی فال ما شاد بید

همان داستان ص.1155

 

فدا

فدای تو بادا تن و جان ما

بر این است جاوید پیمان ما

همان داستان بیت دوم ازپایین

 

فخر

ز جهرم بیامد به شهر صطخر

که آزادگان را بر آن بود فخر

داستان رزم دوم...ص.1158

 

فلک

برآمد چنان از دو لشکرخروش

که چرخ فلک را بدرید گوش

داستان رزم سوم...ص.1159

 

قطره

که گر آب دریا بخواهد رسید

در او قطره باران نیاید پدید

داستان کشته شدن دارا...

ص.1161

 

خبر

همانا که نزد تو آمد خبر

که ما را چه آمد ز اختر به سر

همان داستان ص.1162

 

جفا

جفاپیشه گان تو را هم کنون

بیاویزم از دارشان سرنگون

داستان اندز کردن دارا...ص.1163

 

هلاک

بر این گونه خسته به خاک اندرم

به گیتی به خاک هلاک اندرم

همان داستان ص.1164

 

کاف و نون

بر آن دادگر کو جهان آفرید

پس از آشکارا نهان آفرید

دو گیتی پدید آمد از کاف و نون

چرا نی بفرمان او در، نه چون

داستان نامه نوشتن اسکندر...ص.1166

مراد از کاف و نون کلمۀ کن دز زبان عربی است که در قرآن آمده است که چون خداوند اراده کند که چیزی را بیافریند می گوید: کُنّ و آن آفریده می شود. تکوین می یابد.  و این اندیشۀ آفرینش دو جهان با یک واژۀ خداوند در اسلام پذیرفته شده است. کن فیکون.

 

غریب

غریبان که بر شهرها بگذرند

چماننده پای و لبان ناچرند

همان داستان ص.1167

 

عیب و صافی و صوفی

دل ازعیب صافی و صوفی بنام

به درویشی اندر دلی شادکام

همان داستان. همان صفحه

 

 


Manoucher Avaznia

همسایۀ عزیز

Manoucher Avaznia


سپاس از کمکی که کردی.


Niloufar Parsi

vpk

by Niloufar Parsi on

pls rest assured that i respect your opinion. was just stating the opposing arguments :)

my own way of looking at such things is that the flow of time and life has no specific starting point that can be adequately categorised into the start of some identifiable and unique culture and its specifcs. the classification systems that we use help us describe things how we can understand them in simpler forms, but they are never close enough to revealing the 'truth'.

you can talk about a culture from the standpoint of when or how it was penetrated by an alien force. or you can trace how it has evolved through time with various injections of foreign doses. my arguments come from such an approach.

Peace


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

As Niloufar

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

points out there is no such thing as a "pure" language. Shahnameh may well have a number of Arabic words. In fact Arabs and Iranians lived next to each other long before Islam. Therefore you would expect an organic diffusion of words both languages. There is nothing odd about it. The issue is that since Islam there was an imposition.  Persian was in danger of being wiped out; not by 430 words but by being *banned*. The goal of Ferdowsi was to recover and resurrect Persian.

The goal was successful beyond belief. Perhaps the only one who knew its value at the time was Ferdowsi. Of course now it is a national treasure maybe the greatest of them all. So what if there are a few hundred Arabic words. Persian was saved. 

To Ferdowsi: Afarin!


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Persian Alphabet

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

I just started a blog about Persian Alphabet. In particular Avestan / Din Dabireh. This is my shameless plug for it! I like participation specially by SamSam but all other polite people are welcome. 

//iranian.com/main/blog/veiled-prophet-kh...

Thanks,

VPK


divaneh

Some more facts

by divaneh on

It seems that I have been accused of being gharbzadeh (someone who view Westerners as superiors) for bringing the result of research by professionals to the attention of readers in this blog. Mr Avaznia has found it an insult that I have stated that given his resources (one copy of Shahname) and his linguistic knowledge (?) his contribution to this matter will be of limited value. I find it necessary to explain a few points in response:

-Shahname has been classed as an international asset and has been researched by scholars in many different countries. For your information, to this date the best editions are results of hard work by foreigners and not Iranians.

-The Shahname that Mr Avaznia uses is based on a copy that was edited and published in Russia and perhaps should be treated with the same Xenophobia instead of being the only reference.

-The findings that I listed are from an article by Parviz Natel Khanleri, one of the most respected scholars of Persian literature and contains the result of his own research alongside others.

-Fritz Wolff devoted his life to creating the Shahname’s word index and many studies including Khnaleri’s are based on his index.

Now a few more facts from the same article.

- The number of Arabic words in Shahname are according to Humbert ( 984), khanleri  (over 800), Horn (430 words) , Brown (4-5%), Masse (430) words.

Humbert studies also show that:

- 470 words have only been used once.

- 400 words are used between 2 and 20 times.

- 69 words are used between 20 and 50 times.

- 23 words  are used between 50 and 100 times.

- 22 words have been used 100 times or more.

All scholars agree that some words and verses have been entered into the Shahname by inscribers and there are examples of this.

I have now also found that there is an article by another respected scholar, Abbas Zaryab Khoyee who believes the verses in the introduction of Shahname are not from Ferdosi and have been added to the book at later stages. If you have access to this article please forward me a copy and I will be extremely grateful.

 


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Why do

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

you keep getting to purity? I never said anything about it. Of course there is mixing and so what? I have been calling the horrible little box with pictures Television no problem! The issue with Arabic is that it was *imposed* on us. After the conquest Persian was *banned*. People's tounges were cut off for speaking it. Books burned because they were in Persian. That is different from organic and voluntary mixing of words.

The invaders had one goal: to destry Persian; a goal shared by some to this day. As I write this the name "Persian" is under attack to a point even IRI takes action!

This is the same has happened in Ireland (not by Muslims but by English). They *banned* the use of Gaelic. No wonder the Irish are pissed! 

I don't mind organic diffusion of cultures and words. I do mind cultural genocide. The kind done to Egypt with 90+ % success. To Iran with 50% success and to Ireland. NP jan, be fair you know what I mean please :-}


Niloufar Parsi

vpk

by Niloufar Parsi on

but there is no such purity in any culture. it's come through in the discussions on this thread. people cannot agree whether a word was of iranian or arab origin. as shown by these terms, there was plenty of cultural mingling going on well before islam ever came. go and figure today who is an iranian in dubai or bahrain. anyhow, in my view, cultural 'purity' is hard to identify, especially in a country like iran.


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

NP

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

I am not anti Arab. I am however opposed to replacement of Persian with Arabic. I like Din Dabireh and do not find my liking to be racist. The Irish want to use Gaelic: does that make them racist (vs British)? No! They are both *white* people albeit of different branches. They like me want to preserve the old beautiful heritage.

One result of the takeover by big 3 religions is destruction of the past. In Europe the old ways were destroyed. People of the old religion were burned as "witches" (even thoug they were NOT made of wood). Their holy sites destroyed and replaced by churches. Their language taken over. The holy days and deities renamed after made up saints. In Egypt the whole 10,000 year + civilization wiped out. The language gone, writings only known by Western scholars. What a shame to lose things of such beauty. I want to see old Egyptian things preserved. That does not say I am an Egyptian purist. I really do not want to see this happen to Persian and Iran. 

I don't hate Arabs. I do get mad when Iranians use big Arabic words pretending to be wise. If someone wants to speak Persian then they should do it right. If they want to speak Arabic then do that right. No half baked mishmash! 

Regarding Iranian Arabs: I already gave credit to Iranian Arabs for their loyalty in the war. To me they are Iranians who happen to be of Arab origin. No prohlem; in fact I take an Iranian Arab over Salman Farsi any day.


divaneh

Well said VPK

by divaneh on

I think the Islamist are possibly not aware that how closely they share the fascist practices.

-Fascists look down on people who are different to them. 

-Fascist believe in forcing their supremacy on others and history is a proof of that.

-Fascist are ruthless to those who are different to them ideologically.

-Fascist attach no value to any art, music or literature which is not in line with their thoughts and in fact try to eradicate it.

Now read them again and replace the Fascist with Islamist  and be the judge.

The Islamist hate for Jews in my view is not only because of their intolerance for different ideology but also rooted in the prophet's dislike of Jews evidenced with what happened to Bani-Ghoraize, farmers of Khayber and other Jewish tribes who fell victim at the time.

Their dislike for Iran is due to the same intolerance for different ideology and the contradiction between the life celebrating, tolerant Iranian culture and the death worshipping, intolerant Islamic beliefs.

And, you are very right. You can not expect rationality and reasoning from those who are chosen by Allah as holders of the only truth and superior to others. The rest of people were probably created by the devil.


Niloufar Parsi

vpk

by Niloufar Parsi on

it is precisely a description of anything that is remotely arab causing some kind of 'impurity' in iranian culture that can be seen as racist. iran's diversity has been built through the ages by virtue of being a physical bridge between various cultures. if my memory serves me right, we have over a million arab-iranians whose first language is arabic.  

Peace


hamsade ghadimi

mr. avaznia

by hamsade ghadimi on


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

The issue

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

is not race it is rather culture and alligance. There are those who put Islam first. They hate anything Iranian specially pre Islamic. These people were represented by charlatan Ali Shariati and his kind. They don't like Jews because they are proof that Semites don't have to be muslim. They don't like Persian nationalism for a similar reason. They call anyone who does not agree with them racist or faschist. Just read earlier post by Q. No point agruing with them because they think God is on their side. So it is a waste of time talking to them. 

They will do whatever is possible to minimize Iran. They do anything possible to mix it with Arabic. Not because they like Arabs but because they want Islam. Too bad IRI has 100% discredited Islam.


Cost-of-Progress

Racism Schmacism

by Cost-of-Progress on

Some of you islamists just muddy the water ...how do say it...maghlate'...ugh..my throat hurts after saying it even I tried it in a non-racist way.

Arab is not a race - in fact by being anti jewish, you people are racist against the very people, Arabs, you love and admire even after 14 centuries of systematic and attempted assimilation. Ya know, both arabs and jews are semites....

____________

IRAN FIRST

____________


Manoucher Avaznia

Hamsadeh Ghadeemee;

by Manoucher Avaznia on

I am sorry that I did not directly answer your question, however your respons is my answer.  I am not aware of Eedoon meaning Eed.  I have not seen the word Eedoon used for Norooz, though I am not very much into this.  It is very much possible that someone has tried to use the word as a plural form of Eed as there are several Eeds from late Esfand till mid-Farvadeen.  It is needess to say that òon`` which is used to pluralize words is the slang form of the formal ``aan`` .  If this is the case, then it is just a mistake.  I do not know more.


Manoucher Avaznia

فرصتی دیگر:

Manoucher Avaznia


حصار

به عموریه در حصاری شدند

از ایشان بسی زینهاری شدند

داستان رزم کردن داراب با فیلقوس بیت 13 ص.1147

 

مثقال

چهل کرده مثقال هر خایه ای

همان نیز گوهر گرانمایه ای

همان داستان ص

1148

خایه : تخم مرغ.  در اینجا همان تخم طلای رایج در مثل فارسی است

 

مهد و سکوبا و راهب

دلارای رومی به مهد اندرون

سکوبا و راهب ورا رهنمون

همان داستان ص.1148

 

سقف

سقف خوب رخ را به دارا سپرد

گهر ها به گنجور او برشمرد

همان داستان همان ص.

 

نکهت

بپیچید در جامه و سر بتافت

که از نکهتش بوی ناخوش بیافت

داستام باز فرستادن ناهید...بیت سوم ص.1149

 

عروس

دل پادشا سرد شد از عروس

فرستاد بازش بر فیلقوس

همان بیت 11 همان صقحه

فیلقوس : نام فیلپ مقدونی پدر اسکندر معروف است

 

مال

چو ده سال بگذشت ز این با دو سال

شکست اندر آمد به سال و به مال

همان داستان ص. 1150

 

فغفور:  معرب کلمه فارسی بغپور یا بگپور به معنی پسر خدا لقب پادشاهان چین است

ز هند و ز خاقان و فغفور چین

ز روم و ز هر کشوری همچنین

پادشاهی دارا...

بیت چهارم از آخر.  ص.1151

 

حکیم

حکیمی که بد ارسطاالیس نام

خردمند و بیدار و گسترده کام

داستان مردن فیلقوس...بیت چهارم ص. 1151

ارسطالیس : ارسطو فیلسوف نامی یونان شاگرد افلاطون

 

محب و قضیب و صلیب

همای از بر و خیزرانش قضیب

نوشته بر او بر محب صلیب

همان داستان ص. 1152

 

عدد و نبات

چو آورد لشکر به پیش فرات

سپه را عدد بود بیش از نبات

همان. بیت دوم از آخر ص.1153

 

تا بعد


marhoum Kharmagas

Race !? (to VPK)

by marhoum Kharmagas on

VPK, some of you guys may just be repeatinging Sarjokhe's terms (Ommati, Abab parast, etc) out of ignorance , but Sarjokhe SS has been very systematic in his racist views.


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Q

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

I am not talking about Mr Avaznia. I am talking about the Imams that you Islamists worship. Ali and Khomeini and the rest of the charlatans. Anyway I am sick of explaining the obvious to you. Next time ask Manoucher or NP.


hamsade ghadimi

mr. avaznia

by hamsade ghadimi on

thanks for your response.  so i take it that you don't think that there is a link between arabic 'eid' (with ein) and persian 'eidoon' (with alef) and it is only coincidental that both are used for norooz.


humanbeing

thanks vpk

by humanbeing on

i appreciate your consideration to write in english so people like myself can follow. i am refraining from commenting on this thread, because i really don't know enough. but it is very very interesting (the bits in languages i can read). maybe one day my persian will be up to par.

sam sam, in my uni, there is a course this semester on pahlevi grammar, and another on texts. if i weren't teaching at those hours, i would probably audit it.

the tension between purism and syncretism has pros and cons, with fascinating analogies to other long-lived or revived cultures. it has socio- and psycholinguistic applications. but here it is in the epicentre of your passions, so the perspective is a bit different.

i once commented on a blog of shahenshahesmail about the contribution of persian brainpower to classical arabic (note: not islamic, or exclusively islamic) culture. it is not entirely relevant, but perhaps a footnote.


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Race

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

Just wanted to make this clear. I have never made race an issue. It is not relevant. The main thing is what is in your heart not your race. I do make love of Iran an issue. But that is not a function of race never. 

There were people like Salman Farsi (Parsi is to good for him) who despite their "race" betrayed Iran. Others who despite their race who love Iran. In fact the commander of Iranian forces in war with Iraq was an Arab Iranian. Race is not an issue except for those who try to divide us. Those include the one who cries Faschist anytime we mention Iran.

VPK


Manoucher Avaznia

Q

by Manoucher Avaznia on

Unfortunately, this unrealistic view has dominated certain political trends among Iranians and in my belief will lead us as a great nation to the verge of disintigrations of which none of us will benifite.  We are beautiful as we are with all different colors and smells ()رنگ و بو


Manoucher Avaznia

همسایۀ عزیز

Manoucher Avaznia


1.  Regarding to the word `deen`` I have my hesitation and as a result I did not  bring it as a word with Arabic Roots, however I can never forget the Haddeth of Ghadeer Khom where prophet says:  ``Al yowm Akmatom Lakom Deenekom and Atmamtom alaykom Ne``mattee``.  Considering there was book named Deenkart at the time of the Sassaneeds, I am not sure about the source of the word.  Definitely, Dehkhoda or other Iranian source can be more trusted than my memory.

2.  Idoon, definetly means eenchoneen.  What you have brought, perhaps, is the second part of a sentence that attributes something to the previous sentence.  Shahnameh is full of that word; and I do not know any other meaning of the word to implicit andything beside :``hamchoneen, or hamcheneen`` which mean the same: likewise; and also; and ....


Manoucher Avaznia

پیامبر پوشیده روی خراسان؛

Manoucher Avaznia


I just wanted to make a few points that are addressed by you or someone who has ligitimate and honest conerns about this subject.

A.  To be honest I am many times faster when I use this Fargangee language than typing in Farsi.  Reason, I learn the keyboard in Canada when I was thirty years of age.  The Farsi keys, I learned about a few years ago when I wanted to write Farsi writings as I felt I owed Iranians more than I owe anyone else.  When I smelled like (pehen) they paid for my education, and not anyone else.

B.  If I have put anything up in here, I am morally responsible for that and I will answer ligitimate questions about it with the best of intention of making things clear as much as I can.  Am I the most learned person in this site?  Never.  Do I claim to be the person who can answer all questions?  Far from me.  Do I care about Iran?  That's my best intention.  Do I care about my race?  Never.  Am I racialy less pure than those who claim to be pure Iranians.  I ascertain you I am from the line of Kormanj people who have more purity than those who claim to have Farr Kianee.  Do I care about it.  Never.  Is my Iranian background a good reason to be attacked and labelled?  Never.  Do I trust those so-called scholars who are paid by the Foreign Office of Colonialists to write a history for me?  Never.  In brief, I trust a grade eleven Iranian Farsi teacher who has read the Shahnameh more than so-called scholars who write about my culture and are paid by companies and agencies who are to plunder my cultural heritage and are still stealing  my heritage every day in order to make histories for us in order to legitimize their supermacy.

C.  By the same degree, I do not trust a whole bunch of Gharab-zadeh semi-intellectuals who spread mistrust about our own capabilities and for every bit of information look into Farangees' opinion.  Is there a higher insult than this that someone is telling me to close the Shahnameh in front of me and read a Farangees' opinion about the number of Arabic words in Shahnameh?  Is there a famine amongst us that we have to close the doors of intellect on ourselves and listen to others to define us according to their interests?  Result is the 300 movie that puts us is equal to trash.  As a person who has studied history, do you expect me to trust that kind of piece of garbage.  Why on the face of the earth, I have to abandon my own wisdom and studies and monkey someone who even doesn't know us?

D.  Azeezam, in poetry, people normally refere to the verse of the poem not the location of a verse as it is different in different sizes and versions of publications.  On the other hand, verse is not that easy to forge.  It is not easy to (in poetry)  froge something under the old name.  It is different from prose in which anyone can qoate something and present it to the public under a new name.  If you look at my quatations, they are more accurate than what Dehkhoda has given.  I adore that man because he remained Iranian and died Iranian, no matter what happened to him.  He did not have a comfortable life, but look at his legacy.  I glorify him as he is the man who still shines in the face of my culture; and his folowers are pursuing his goals with every difficulty that faces them. 

I give the  name of the story in the Shahnameh based upon the source that I have.  Imagine, if I say this page and that page and someone like you go and check in his own Shahnameh which is not my print and edition , what would you think about me?  Manoucher Avaznia is the greatest liar ever; as some have called me so far.  Right!  But, when I tell you this word is in this verse and this story that is more or less (I am not sure) common in all versions of Shahnameh then you can locate it in any Shahnameh which encompasses the whole book with little differences.  Most  strories in the Shahnameh are shorter than two pages long.  It is not difficult to locat my words.

E.  You say, I hope I am correct in this regard, that I am trying to catch Ferdowsee (persumably) about using Arabic words.  I am sure that you are mistaken in this regard.  Is there any word or verse from Ferdowsee himself or from someone who knowledgeably is talking  about him, that he ever claimed that he has never used Arabic words.  Can any person show me one single verse to say that Ferdowsee claimed so.  (I am sorry my keyboard is playing with me as I cannot use the question mark key properly).  This is a fable that some have created in order to stir enmity between us as Iranians and Arabs who are our history-long neighbors.  You should pay attention that the Arabic forms of the words that we use are not in the same way as Arabs use.  If it were the case, Arabs must understand Hafez if Farsee verbs are translated in Arabic.  It is impossible for Arabs to understand language of Sa`adee``s unless they uderstand Farsee first.  Let`s be realistic.

F.  If those who try to stir this eminty among us and our history-long neighbors are honest about what they try to stir, ask them to purify their own languages from Latin, French, Greek, and even Arabic and Persian words.  After all, what is in common between Ango-Saxon people and Romans and Greek lnaguages.  They will never do that.  What is in common between barbarian Anglo-Saxon hords and Roman and Greek civilizations which owed plenty to the people of what is called The Middle East.  Is that not true that the word Vadelism is deriven from the name of the Vandals who sacked Rome: and they were one of those so-called Germanic peoples .  Why do they not do what they endorse for us.  Reason is obvious.  If they cleanse their language, almost nothing is left for them. So, it is beautiful if I fight with Arabs over a word while they enjoy the benifites of the wars that they stir. 

F.  Whatever a person with tendencies towards Fascism in his youth has said about Ferdowsee (this person is not in this site.  I mean the person who called Ferdowsee Harmzadeh) and whatever disagreement I (as Manoucher Avaznia) has with Ferdowsee`s opinions, he (Ferdowsee) is the backbone of my literature and my identity as an Iranian.  He is the product of Irano-Islamic tradition as people like him were never created in Islamic environment alone neither they were created in the Iranian heritage alone.  If I am wrong, please show me an example like him in pre-Islamic era Iran or among Islamic traditions alone; and please bring your reasons.  

H.  I do not understand why greatness of people like Ferdowsee has to be used against someone like Ghazzalee who is a great philosopher and critic of pholosophy and soofee in his own time.  Please, do not do it because of Manoucher Avaznia.  I am nobody; and to Hell with me.  This type of people destroy their people`s every achievement and accomplishment just because they want to say ``Zekkee`` to me.  They do not understand what they do.  They forget that all those dazzling nights of Baghdaad were re-creation of Parveez``s lavish expensive life under a new banner by Iranians except that it was wrapped in the banner of Arabic language.  You count from its music and dance to story telling and...  Do I endorse them.  Definitely not.  Why. Because they were the life blood drained from poor peasants and slaves who had no right whatsoever.  Was it an Islamic creation.  No.  A big no.          

I.  Some people have raised the question of Mahmood (Ghaznaveeds) tolerance toward Shee``and have claimed Mahmod was tolerant toward Shee`s. They purposely mix the subject without feeling responsible to what they propose.  First, I have mentioned that Ismaaleelee Sheeà`s were the most radical type of sheeà in those days and were a dominant force while others brands of Shee'a like Twelve-Imaamees were more or less moderate and did not pose serious threats to ruling Suni governments.  Did the person who raised the question consider whoever Mamood married his daughter to was a Twelver, Zaidee, or Ismaeelee.  Why then Beihaghee quates Mahmood that:  ``I have stuck my fingers in every hole and am looking for Gharmatees``.  Is not Behaghee more intimate to the subject than a second-hand quatation.  If I live long enough, I will expand this subject that Moghol invasion of Iran had two major consequences for Iran as a nation:  first its erradication of the Ismaeelee movement led to the surfacing of Twelver Sheeà.  Second,  erradication of Arabic Language center from Baghdaad and its tranfer to Ghaahereh in Egypt (far from Iran)  provided a great chance for Farsi language to revive:  two great contributing elements to Iranian nationalism.

 

Please, forgive me for the length of this dialogue.  I will go back to documenting more of the Arabic words in the Shahnameh that I have quated according to my souce.  Please, do not hesitate to put forward your questions as clearly as possible.  If I am able to answer them, I will be more than happy to do so. 

Baa Dorrood     

 

 

 


hamsade ghadimi

mr. avaznia or other

by hamsade ghadimi on

mr. avaznia or other readers,

thanks for the blog.  i haven't read all the comments as it seems that the topic has become contentious.  however, i have a question for the writer of the blog and interested readers regarding couple of words and their origins:

din - this word is attributed to arabic; although wiki also mention that is also a pahlavi word.  we have many words in persian such as fardin (glorious religion; zoroastrianism), or farvardin (more glorious religon), ...  is it possible that both people have used this word independently?  or is it a persian word that is now claimed by arabs?  here's the wiki entry for this word: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C4%ABn

eid - another religious word.  some time ago i got an iranian new year card from a zoroastrian mobed who is very careful in not using arabic words.  at the end of the card he wrote: "noroozetan eidoon baad."  i checked the word eidoon (spelled with alef and not ein) in dehkhoda and it means hamchenin.  again this word is widely known as an arabic word.  are these two different words that happen to sound alike?  it just seems as an odd coincidence to go from 'eidoon bad' to 'eid shoma mobarak.' here's the wiki reference with no mention of persian: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eid_ul-Fitr

considering that the arabs only changed the name of one weekday, friday, from persian (adineh; a compound word from din) to arabic (jome'h), would you consider that the arabs were systematically striking or taking out persian words that had to do with zoroastrianism?

thanks in advance for the reply.


Q

Who is destroying your culture? Mr. Avaznia?

by Q on

Get real, my friend.

This is pure delusion.