No Fear

The Gall of You

This is a cheap shot from someone who originally accused me of over simplifying Iranian politics.

You are the one who complained about simplification of Iranian politics and tried to weasel out of responsibility by hiding behind the complexity.

As far as cheap shots, you take the prize by posting this video showing the public mockery of a trial of people who had no crime and no legal representation in which they criminalize any sort of opposition and contesting of this fraudulent election, and then have the GALL to say the following:

And they were NOT executed and infact they are free now. Why is that?

How generous of you, Mr AN, to not have these people executed. Who the HELL do you think you are? They are free now? Why were they arrested in the first place? And yes, Abtahi is free now- AFTER HAVING TO RAISE $700,000! Why did this man have to raise so much money to become free? What crime did he commit? He was sentenced to 6 years in prison. What charge was he charged with? WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF MR. AN AND MR NO FEAR?

And you say that it was great that he was not executed??

You jail people, rape and torture them, and you have the gall to say DIALOG? 

This is your defense of AN? You have no ground to stand on.

Stop betraying your people and siding with a murderer. Shame on you.

Fair

the IRI executive branch

Fair, you may have a point. I've jumped into this thread late and much appears to have preceded me. As it stands now, the thread has devolved into not much more than a shouting match.

That's really unfortunate. I believe it was the author's intent to engage in a civil discussion over Ahmadinejad's policy direction as head of the IRI executive branch. Within the IRI system, there's actually a fair amount of policy alternatives available for inquiry and debate, including budget allocation; subsidies; foreign policy and budget allocation for Iraq, Lebanon and Afghanistan; Latin American political and business ties; commercial ties with Turkey, refined petroleum production efforts, the division of the Caspian Sea and a lot, lot more. I believe the author's intent was to bring to light these policy issues and their alternatives. I'm still open to discuss executive branch policy direction.

But generalized anti-Iran rants or even criticism directed at branches of government other then the executive branch lie outside the scope of this intended topic. 

benross,

"the enemies of this contract are not part of this pact".

I agree 100%, so tell me who is going to be the judge of it to tell us who is the enemy and who is the freind? 

Open and shameless

Open end questions will be ignored, try to be specific please.

I have answered Fairs question on NOV 26. Please read my replies. I have answered them in three different replies. Sincerely.

Open end questions will be ignored, try to be specific please.

Saying fraud is acting against national security...

Apparently Mr./Ms. 'No Fear''s ship sank with a shot of a small and simple question.

This is a cheap shot from someone who originally accused me of over simplifying Iranian politics. You have intentionally toned down their charges to support your arguement. here is a video of the trial watch the whole video and save me the typing.

//www.memritv.org/clip/en/2206.htm

And they were NOT executed and infact they are free now. Why is that? Do you think that Ahmadinejad is convinced that they are innocent? How can you explain it without simplifying it please. I have answered your questions truthfully to the best of my knowledge. Please refrain from name calling or accusations if you wish to have a dialog.Sincerely.

Let’s try it one more time

I’ll do it this time without the 4-letter words. It’s now addressed to both No Fear and Jenaab Sargord.

  “Why don’t you answer the questions? Fair asked you some very relevant and “close ended” questions (1 thru 9). Why don’t you have the courage to come out and expose who you are by your answers? You just say those are Judiciary questions and relate to Sharia law (the current rotten constitution) and has nothing to do with AN (it is out of executive branch).  Who the hell has the control over Basij and Pasdars? Who is enforcing the backward constitution? You will kill a 1000 Nedas in a heartbeat if they say anything even peacefully against your Judiciary system. You will rape any member of your legislative branch if they breathe a breath against your backward “mazhabi” constitution.

You are proud of your bully monkey to provoke the entire world into devastation of your own land (mihan) and her people just to be a brainless “ghayoor”. Yes, you are a “Melli-mazhabi”. Please get out of my homeland. Rest assured your days are numbered.”

  No one can flag this one. If this is deleted, then something is going on.

Wrong Midwesty

Democracy is a social contract among those who agree on freedom of speech, association and naturally freedom of opposing one another.

The enemies of this contract are not part of this pact.

Now if someone who was not a democrat wants to know how to become a democrat, he is most welcome. But he is not coming here lecturing us. 

Let's tone it down people...

We always need the opposing opinions. Otherwise we are condemned to fall in another type of dictatorship one way or the other.

"the world arrogance" and

"the world arrogance" and zionism

Oh no not another one!

It seems that now the 'guideline' is to focus on 'pro-Iran' stance! No matter how fancy or elementary your vocabulary is, all Iranians are 'pro-Iran'. But this is the place for those who seek a secular democracy. IRI is the enemy of this goal, so is anybody supporting it. Pro-IRI is neglecting Iran by stopping the development of Iran through secular democracy. So although I don't call them non-Iranian or traitors, they certainly don't have any credibility in defining what is pro-Iran whatsoever.

Pro-IRI people do not belong here. As simple as that.

Thank you Mardom Mazloom, Midwesty, and others

Let it be clear to the world:

WE ARE IRANIANS.

WE ASK "WHERE IS MY VOTE"?

WE DEMAND OUR UNIVERSAL HUMAN RIGHTS.

WE SAY NO TO DICTATORSHIP WITH OUR BLOOD AND OUR ACTIONS.

AHMADINEJAD IS NOT OUR PRESIDENT. 

STOP TREATING US LIKE SUBJECTS. WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS.

IRANI MEEMERAD ZELLAT NEMIPAZIRAD.

WE ARE IRANIANS

Fair

First answer the unanswered questions

Sargord Pirooz. There were 13 questions I had, none of which got answers. There are plenty more that were made, most of which did not get answers.

So before you ask for more questions, maybe you can address the ones made so far.

I know it is difficult. But when you signed up on the side of the Iranian establishment, you chose to stand up against your people. This is not easy. At least for people who care about their own people. Show us which type of person you are.

The reason this thread lost coherence is that NO FEAR said "ASK ME ANYTHING" and then rejected any question that he wished on grounds of being "open ended". Just like the "enemies" are called enemies on grounds of "acting against national security" and "are punishable by death".

When you invite questions, BE READY FOR QUESTIONS. If you can't take the heat, GET THE HE** OUT OF THE KITCHEN.

And For the record, US law enforcement did not arrest thousands of people and put on a televised mock trial of people who had no legal represenetation.

They did not send thugs on motorcycles to people's house threatening them with death.

They did not grab girls off the street, rape them and then kill them.

Are you still with the Iranian establishment? Then you are a disgrace to your uniform. Iranian soldiers always have stood with the people. What kind of soldier are you?

-FAIR

All I can say is that I

All I can say is that I accept the fact that my presidential candidate did not win the election, and that Dr. Ahmadinejad is Iran's legitimate president. I also accept the IRI as the legitimate government of Iran. And according to the recent WPO polls, my views are shared by the majority living inside Iran.

Thanks for the laugh! The intellectual midget of the year award goes to Major Pirouz!

p.s. Do you really believe your own BS??

Jenabe Sargord,

Apparently Mr./Ms. 'No Fear''s ship sank with a shot of a small and simple question.

Thank you Fair and Midwesty

Beside all these negative waves and cr@p, the soul of Iran has beaten once again. I'm sorry to see some Hamvatans playing the dirty game of the ennemies of Iran. But, I'm proud also to see that our love for Iran predominates this treachery.

It gives hope for the future and also commemorates our ham-mihans who gave their lives for a better Iran.

پاینده باد ایران

Major Pirouz: are you a

Sargord Pirouz: are you a member of the IRGC? who issues your paycheck?

Why do you feel a need to declare your rank and file in the Islamic Republic army to come to this site and spread your official propaganda? Do you think your admission to being a military man from IRI gives you more credibility as a propagandist??? Or do you want to intimidate people?

sargord= Major in English

The actual subject

This thread has lost coherence. There seems to be a string of emotional parting shots and personal accusations taking place.

When I first joined in, I offered a partial answer to a question directed at No Fear, but asked for additional info. Instead, I received a host of accusations directed at my screen name, avatar, etc., which really don't have a direct bearing on the subject of this thread: Ahmadinejad's policies.

I really don't know where to jump back in, what with all the screaming going on.

All I can say is that I accept the fact that my presidential candidate did not win the election, and that Dr. Ahmadinejad is Iran's legitimate president. I also accept the IRI as the legitimate government of Iran. And according to the recent WPO polls, my views are shared by the majority living inside Iran.

Even though I didn't vote for President Ahmadinejad, I don't have strong opinions against him. While I'm not much impressed by his economic record, he has performed well in standing up to "the world arrogance" and zionism. Strides have been made in Iran's nuclear and ballistic missile programs. National independence and cultural integrity are very important to Ahmadinejad's followers, and I respect that. So is law and order.

I recognize that there is now a vocal minority inside Iran that makes up the rudiments of a budding anti-establishment movement, amid the backdrop of a cold war between the West and Iran. This situation shares some similarities to the anti-establishment movement of the United States during the late 1960's and early 70's. Back then, there were also mass demonstrations and a heavy response by US law enforcement.

But like I said, I'm on the side of the Iranian establishment. Any more questions directly related to executive branch policy initiatives or policy alternatives?

Thanks Mardom Mazloom and Midwesty

Even more evidence that the election was fraudulent.

So we have a president whose legitimacy, even under the IRI rules is in serious doubt, yet insists at holding on to power and shooting and killing and imprisioning and torturing as many people as it takes to do so.

And we have a person who has the gall to call himself No Fear defending a tyrant who rules by terrorizing innocent defenseless Iranians.

Remember, calling election results fraudulent is against national security and punishable by death! Everybody just bow to AN and everything will be fine and no one will get hurt.

-FAIR

Thanks Mardom Mazloom and Fair,

Great discussion!

Buy AN's cr@p for free - Acte 180: The Election Fraud

Fair, Midwesty
The Guardian Council admitted the election Fraud. Some extracts from the following article quoting the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB):

The Guardian Council admitted that the number of votes collected in 50 cities was more than the number of eligible voters, the council’s spokesman Abbas-Ali Kadkhodaei told the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB) channel Sunday.

LOL

He said this amounted to about 3 million questionable votes, but added that “it has yet to be determined whether the amount is decisive in the election results”.


Villainous, ain't it?

Midwesty

The Guardian Council didn't admit fraud, they just took much longer (a couple of weeks) to certify the results. According to the constitution, the Guardian Council must certify the results before the Islamic Fuehrer declares the results official, but the Islamic Fuehrer didn't even bother to wait for this step.

But remember, the Guardian Council's makeup is controlled by the Islamic Fuehrer himself. So this is a system of absolute dictatorship, which AN swears to upholds and No Fear defends.

After the coup of June 12, millions of Iranians peacefully protested, asking "where is my vote?". In any civilized country, only 1/10 of that reaction would have caused a recount and investigation. But in the Islamic Republic under the presidency of AN and leadership of Islamic Fuehrer, those protesting even peacefully are responsible for any action taken against them.

This is the Islamic Republic of Iran in 2009.

-FAIR

Buy AN's cr@p for free - Entr'acte: A rhyme

‫سرور هر چی خرکِ وقیحه      ‫علی یهِ دستِ، رهبرِ فقیهه

Fair

Good point. I wasn't even aware that the Guardian Council even admitted that there was a massive fraud but the excuse was even if they add the fraudulent counts to Mousavi's he won't still make it....:O) I got to love this...Thanks man!

So even by the IRI standard the green movement leaders didn't commit any crimes.

Compare this to what happened to Afghanistan's election when Abdollah yelled fraud...Did he get arraste? 

Absurdity and outrage without end

Since when is calling the election results fraud punishable by death? In any country except Nazi Germany?  What you say is outrageous and you should be ashamed of yourself.

No Fear, the more you try to justify this criminal the more you embarass yourself. There is plenty of evidence of fraud- the results were called only hours after the polls closed, in a country 3 times the size of France where votes are counted by hand. The Islamic Fuehrer declared the results official and divine before the Guardian Council did so, which is against the constitution. If the election was not a fraud, THEN WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF? Open the ballot boxes all throughout the country in front of opposition representatives, and sit down and count them for 6 months openly and transparently.

WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF NO FEAR?

Why must you instead ban even PEACEFUL demonstrations and kill people instead?

Why must basijis terrorize someone like Karroubi calling for his death outside of house?

These people claimed they were treated humanely? You are full of CRAP. These people did not even have access to a lawyer or families for days and weeks, and then emerged in a mass trial in pyjamas saying ludicrous things under distress. Just go look at Maziar Bahari's interview and the threats they made to him to not talk.

Why should Maziar not talk? WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF Mr AN?

Your point of view is you can't plagiarize 11 million votes. Of course you can. But what you CANNOT plagiarize is 3 million people in the stree protesting. SILENTLY. And then basijis attacking them and killing and arresting them.

Stop defending dictatorship. Stop defending murder. You are a partner in crime and betray your people when you do so. Stand with your people, not those who butcher them.

-FAIR

So saying fraud is acting against national security....

Saying fraud is acting against national security...

Saying fraud is acting against national security...

Read that couple of times man!...if you don't still get it...I have nothing else to say...

but to your readers....

The act against national security crime was never defined in the constitution or the general law frame of IRI despite of many attempts by the various PMs in various stages of time to define it but the beneficiaries of the vague law wanted have a French door that can open both ways and to let them manipulate the law as they go...

if you ask 'No fear' what is it on the list of national security crime, he will not have a quantitative and definitive list of crimes but very vague and general ones.

Open end questions will be ignored, try to be specific please.

Who brought the charges against the current opposition leaders in Iran? Weren't the most charges against Abtahi, Atrianfar, Nbavi and the rest from the information ministry? Isn't the Information Min. part of the executive branch? What were the charges then? Bad mouthing the IRI? Thinking about velvet revolution?

Acting against national security was their charges and it falls rightfully under the information ministry. Calling the election results a " Fraud" without any proof and calling people to come to street and show " solidarity" ( read riot ) at a time when massive riots are breaking out in the capital is a crime in IR and punishable by death if proved to be against national security. The three who were charged had all held government positions before and should have known this better.

While you defend their right to mutiny against a system that they swore to protect, they , themselves have admitted in a public court that they were wrong and their " fraud " accusations were baseless. Not even one of them got up in the court and shouted among many national and international journalist that they were mistreated. They said they were treated humanely in prison. They confessed it was a plan with code name " fraud" to weaken the administration. This is called acting against national security, for your information.

What were their sentences? 5-6 years prison time , and now they are out on bail?!  Because they used to be Hashemi Rafsanjani senior advisors they get special treatments.  They should serve their prison sentences since they were in a position of trust among people and their actions prolonged the riots which in turn had cost human lives. But Karroubi picks up the $700000 bail for Abtahi ( where did he get that kind of money anyway? ), while others bail money is provided by people affiliated with Rafsanjani.

So, these three are easily off the hook. When in IR history, anyone who had been accused of acting against national security , got off this easily? Give me an example. During your beloved mousavi or Rafsanjani era, anyone accused of this will be declared " mofsed fel arz " and immidiately executed. Some people have a very short memory span.

if we assume that the election was not a fraud and 11 million votes cant be plagiarized ( try looking at it from my point of view ), then the demonstrations on the street should be considered as riot. It had all characteristics of a full blown riot. Burning cars, looting stores and so on to name a few is not considered civil disobidence. Granted, not all protestors burnt cars , but you cant argue against anti riot forces trying to break this up.

No Fear

all wartime leaders subsidise pretty much all sectors of the economy. Moussavi's economic policy at the time was sound. trying to connect his policies of the time to the current failures in agriculture policy is pointless.

and the biggest subsidisers of agriculture in the world have the healthiest industries and most profitable producers in the world. it is incorrect to blame subsidies for the failure of the sector in iran. agriculture is the most highly subsidised sector in the world. one reason is food security. this has little to do with market forces. a nation that is not food secure is insecure, on many levels.

Peace

SK jan,

Iran is not Iraq in term of geography, where she is in a land lock unlike Iraq which is wide open region for ground invasion, nor Iran's military power is comparable to Saddam's Iraq under heavy embargo and massive corruption. They tried it in 1980's to invade Iran but in no avail.

Nevertheless Iran is a no match with the West's military might but she can still sting and inflict several painful bites. That's what west can't afford and that's what IRI knows about it exactly.

I say leave all these hoopla aside and concentrate on Iranian people who are taken hostage by IRI and the West. 

Anytime West denies Iran's right IRI find an excuse to torture people. Anytime IRI scores a point, the West find an excuse to torture people. It is insane! Bunch of dumb ass politicians sitting on both sides of the table locked in a gridlock the only thing they find to hurt the other is to poke at Iranians. 

Buy AN's cr@p for free - Act 171: the entry of Sargord

Sargord, if you are real, I’m wondering in what kind of military corps you can be except the Sepah. So you are telling us that you voted for Moussavi and now for Mehan you support AN and that’s what we should all do. WHAT A JOKE! Even Moussavi didn’t say that. So you either voted for him by conviction and you shouldn’t say that or you did it because of some obscure reasons which is in complete paradox of what you are telling us now. LOL.

I’m used to multi-personality individuals, especially on the web. For me Vatan is people who live in it, I’m mourning to not have been aside of my Ham-mihans when they got shot in the middle of the streets. DO YOU REALLY CARE ABOUT THAT, Sargord, No Fear, or whoever you are?

You say:

During Ahmadinejad's tenure as president, the US invaded Afghanistan, removing the Taliban, who had worked to greatly reduce the drug trade. Now, during the US occupation, Afghanistan's drug trade is at an all time high. As a result, despite its best efforts, Iran is awash in heroin. Hence, more drug addicts. Don't blame Ahmadinejad, blame the incompetent US led occupation next door to Iran.

What a joke! Iran ain’t the only neighbor of Afghanistan. Why other countries like Pakistan from which the transit is much easier than between Iran and Afghanistan haven’t such a high record of drug addicts? It’s not the US fault if Sepah eases the entry of hashish into Iran, don’t you think so, Sargord?

Your other half says:

when you inject money ( raise incomes, give handouts , etc) in the economy, you create inflation. There are other reasons for inflation too.

You’re kidding? When you inject money into the economy by investing and creating more jobs you decrease the inflation. That’s what happens in all other wealthy countries.... Oh, I forgot we are in Iran and Khomeini said that economy is for donkeys so one should expect the reverse. According to your theory, a rich country is the one which has a high inflation, LOL

If Sanghak price is 1000 tuman, then it should be sold that much. If its too expensive, people won't buy then the price will be adjusted.

So, according to you if bread is expensive people have to starve and that will bring the price low as the majority of Iranians will die meanwhile? What kind of THING are you? How can you say that? Do you have an epsilon of love for Iran; or people are just objects for you?

Your first avatar is much more appropriate. A blind, big mouth who shows teethes. It reminds me AN, all other fu@ker sepahis and beasts in the Hell.

You also conveniently

You also conveniently ignore question 13- does AN support Khamenei's public declaration of war against the Iranian people ?

This is not a question, its a statement by you and its too generalized thats why i ignored it.

It is a question- a simple and specific one, and everyone can see why you ignored it- because the answer will not help you.

FACT- Khamenei publicly declared war on the people of Iran in Friday prayers after the coup.

QUESTION:Does AN support this declaration?

You have no defense, and once again weasel out of it without success.

This thread was not about defending IR you know. It was about defending Ahmadinejads policies.

Baloney. If you aim to defend AN while not defending IR, you must show that AN is championing change in IR, which you have failed to do. Once again- SPECIFIC steps he has taken to defend human rights in Iran. WHERE ARE THEY? AN's policies ARE defining the IR today. If you disagree, then disprove it.

As far as "with us or against us" mentality, it is your leader and his leader who always use the word "enemy" for characterizing anybody who does not stand with them. "Doshman this" and "Doshman that". It is the criminal who you support who has called those demonstrating against him "dirt and dust".

QUESTION: So how do you justify his calling millions of Iranians "dirt and dust"?

Another example of your exclusive mentality (us or them):

the opposition outside of Iran is a non factor in Iran's political future,

Listen No Fear and AN and Khamenei thugs: ALL IRANIANS ARE A FACTOR IN IRAN'S POLITICAL FUTURE. This just illustrates how you have monopolized the country for one faction. This is dictatorship by definition.

And to Sargord:

I think I can already tell I'm going to be in a minority opinion here.

Yes, if you stand against the will of the Iranian people like No Fear does and side with a dictator, you are definitely in a minority opinion here. If AN won fair and square, then why did not the election commission invite all the candidates representatives to observe a recount of all the votes? Why the insistence that the result is official after so much doubt, even if it means killing dozens, and arresting and torturing and raping thousands?

You saw the largest demonstrations in Iranian history in the face of certain death and arrest expressing their outrage at the fraud. These are your people. If you go and talk about meehan and sang-e-ahanam, respect them and stand up for them, not against them.

BOTTOM LINE: No Fear has failed miserably to defend the dictator of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who led a military coup on June12, 2009, and the most brutal crackdown on the Iranian people in modern history. This crackdown still continues, and this election continues to be challenged by millions of Iranians.

No Fear has tried deflecting blame whenever possible, and ignoring the question by calling it "general" when even deflecting blame was not possible. As long as you do this No Fear, you stand against your people and your country, who need your help right now, not your betrayal.

-FAIR