Savalan

savalan

You are a clown from turkey, and I suggest worrying about the 30 million Kurds in turkey who are breeding like rabbits.

Btw, Aryan isn't a racial term, it's original meaning means noble or refers to a group of languages. and even if it was it refers to iranic people, so Aryans = Kurds, persians, Pashtuns, original non-turkified azeris (Persian name, lol) etc... not just persians

I personally myself never use aryan to refer to myself, just Iranian/Persian. 

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"They are not afraid of the ideology alone, but of the detemination and will of the men behind it"

 "I'd rather be hated for w

Houshang

You only embrass yourself by agreeing with this pan-turk racist savalan who can't even speak Persian. There is a reason why those poets wrote their poems in Persian and not Toorkish, which was a language forced on the Azeri people.

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"They are not afraid of the ideology alone, but of the detemination and will of the men behind it"

 "I'd rather be hated for w

Hoshang Jan

What are we? I already pointed out my own ancestory, I also pointed out my loyalty, I don't need a lot of mumbo jumbo about history. Azarbaygan is Iran. 

Sir, you have already trashed Iranians in a previous posting and I debunked it. What do you want? Dissolution of Iran is not an option. 

It seems " Savalan" just made some very substantial points

on non-essentialism of "national identity," and not a single person in here has adressed it, just piling up insults on him. So before piling more insults on him and our Azari sisters and brothers don't forget that:

A) Some of the most successful lovers of Persian language were Azaris, Shamloo, Saedi, Behrangi,...

B) Before accusing him of being a tape recorder and coming up with the same response over and over again, address his points on " non-essentialism" of national identity, (BTW  this also applies to " Human Nature " and many,. many other social phenomenas: meaning you ought to be very careful before dismissing it out of hand. Class dismissed!)  

@Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Because it is the truth.

ستار خان

ستار خان آذری بود. حالا شما هم خود را آذری خطاب کن.

آذری‌ها مثل خوبی‌ دارند: از میان انسانها اگر خر و الاغ در نمی‌‌آمد، قیمت یک خر از ۱۰۰ میلیون هم بیشتر میشد.

حتا رهبر آذری هم را آنقدر آزردید که شما را میکروب نامید. هر چند که به نظر من بر سر شما منّت گذاشت.

برو این دکّان را جای دگر پهن کن که شاید خریداری پیدا کنی‌.

OKtaby

Have you

noticed that "Savalan" does not answer any posts. Just goes on ranting  Turkish nonsense. It reminds me of "Mutlu". Many years ago before the web there were UNIX news groups. The Turks came up with an automated rant generator that would post under "Mutlu". It would scan the UNIX news for the Armenian keyword. Whenever it found it then it would post nonsense about Armenians genociding Turks. It got a reputations for being idiotic rants. This creature is a true son of Mutlu.

این چه اراجیفی است؟

بسم تعالی

مگر من کجایی هستم مردک؟  شما میکربها دیگر شور حماقت را در آورده اید.

السّلام علیکم و رحمت الله و برکاته.

Belief in Essentialism and an Essentialist notion of Iranian-nes

The dominant order in Iran promotes an essentialist notion of identity based on race and language. Instead of viewing identities as shifting, non-fixed and fluid categories, the Iranian racist order assigns fixed identities to individuals and communities based on their degree of ‘Iranian-ness’ (Iraniyyat). Under this essentialist and essentializing mentality, those speaking an Indo-European language are considered to be in possession of authentic Iranic identity and hence ‘more Iranian’ than those speaking a Semite or Turkic language.

The dominant order plays the race card to create hostilities among marginalized communities, seeking to prevent the formation of any semblance of solidarity among them. By identifying some of them as ‘true Iranians,’ ‘real Aryans,’ and ‘the authentic owners of Iran,’ it engenders a policy of divide and conquer, while sowing the seeds of mistrust and animosity among different ethnic groups. At the same time, it prevents a sensible census from taking place based on ethnicity and language, fearing that an ethnic-based and language-based census would reveal the true size and number of both Persian and non-Persian communities in the country. Just as such racist notions as ‘the true owners of Iran,’ ‘the real Aryans,’ and similar mumbo-jumbo are emphasized to an inflated and inflammatory degree; so too the real issues and concerns such as the need for ‘conducting of an ethnicity/language based national census,’ ‘opening of ethnic studies departments in the universities,’ and ‘researching ethnic groups and ethnic relations in the country’ are de-emphasized, degraded, and dismissed.

Thanks Farah

I figured I give him the Zands despite their Azari connections so he doesn't come back and bore us with more propaganda by telling us that they were Persians, etc.

Dear AO

You are right on the spot. If I am not mistaken you might as well add Zand dynasty to your list.  Although they were Lor in ethnicity, I suspect they were related to the Zands of Azerbaijan.

FR

You sound like a broken record on auto repeat

that is totally detached from reality...spewing the same delusional rhetoric.  Instead of cutting and pasting the same paragraph over and over again, please either answer the following question, or kindly STFU:

What is the ethnicity of each of the following dynasties and individuals that ruled Iran in the past ten centuries (the overwhelming majority of that time period):

-Saljooghis;

-Safavids; 

-Afshars;

-Qajars;

-Ali Khamenei;

The IR is an equal opportunity offender. It jails, tortures and murders anyone who it sees as a threat without regard to their ethnicity.  My cousin was executed by the IR, and we are as "Persian" as an Iranian can get.  If you don't believe me, pick up the phone and call your great hero Nasser Pourpirar.  He used to be a Revolutionary Guard member, torturer and interrogator.  He will tell you. But first, answer the question that I posed to you above.  

separatist nonsense

"projects in Persian populated cities such as Isfahan, Shirza, Yazd, and Kerman, while the non-Persian regions of Kurdistan, Baluchistan, Azerbaijan, and other areas more and more plunge in poverty and deprivation.
"

Azerbaijan is richer than Shiraz, Yazd, Kerman and has more industires.  Aslo majority of Tehran merchants are Azeris.  These nonsense lies are spouted by pan-Turkist fascist/racist/separatist anti-Iranians  like Fakhteh Zamani and her stooge here.

The Belief in the Systematic Practice of Racism

The Iranian racist order uses the coercive force of governing organs to marginalize, criminalize, and punish the activists advocating the cause of minoritized communities, labeling them as traitors, secessionists, agents of foreign governments, etc. During the cold war period, it was customary to label anti-racist activists as communists and KGB agents. Nowadays such activists are labeled as agents of CIA, Israel, Zionism, Turkey, and even the Republic of Azerbaijan. Through such practices, the dominant order refuses the legitimate demands of minoritized communities for equal treatment, justice, and fairness. It brutally suppresses any ethnic-based and language-based activity, forcefully denying and condemning the right for self-determination of various nationalities. On the economic front, the government channels the country’s resources to building infrastructure, factories, and development projects in Persian populated cities such as Isfahan, Shirza, Yazd, and Kerman, while the non-Persian regions of Kurdistan, Baluchistan, Azerbaijan, and other areas more and more plunge in poverty and deprivation.

Actually, If anything, the Fars should complain about Turk

domination of Iran for the past 1000 years.  With the exception of Zand and Pahlavi dynasties, can you tell us one Iranian ruling dynasty for the past 1000 years that was NOT Turkish?  

Every single one of them has been Turkish: the Safavids, the Saljooghis, the Afshars, the Qajar, etc., etc..., and now King Khamenei.  And what about Khakhali, the biggest butcher of Iranians in modern history?  What was his ethnicity?

So much for being an oppressed minority!! 

IRI trickery?

I am wondering if these separatists are not IRI plants. Whenever things go bad for the Mollas they bring out the specter of dissolution. They get someone to make a separatist claim. Then come out and claim to be protectors of Iranian unity. 

Is this Savalan for real? Is he or she some IRI plan to use fear to unite us behind them.

Savalan - Can you please tell us the ethnicity of

the Supreme Leader of the Fars dominated, racist, fascist Iran, Seyyed Ali Khamenei? 

I guess

according to this Savalan Kasravi is a European!! Read this buddy:

//www.amazon.com/Azari-Zaban-Bastan-Azarbayga...

If you can read! The Azari are Iranians and will remain Iranian until the end of this world. Turks have a lot of nerve talking after their genocide of Armenians. 

Now after all that the separatist calls us racist.

Mehr o Mihan

There is a wonderful play written by the great Iranian painter "Rassam Arjangee". He was from Azarbayejan himself but a true patriotic Iranian. The play is named: Azarbayegani Chegoneh Tork Zaban Shod".

I am fortunate enough to have a copy. I think I will publish it on IC. This way we can lay to rest the myth of a turkish Azarbayegan. 

Ta chesme jodayi talaban koor shavad.

Aryan Race and Language

Drawing on discredited European racist views, the dominant discourse in Iran equates language with race and tries to fabricate Indo-European language ties for non-Farsi speaking peoples such as the Azeri-Turks in an attempt to show that over a thousand years ago they spoke an Indo-European language and are therefore Aryan. As such, they should cleanse themselves of their inferior linguistic/ethnic/cultural identity and become one with ‘the superior Aryan race’ by speaking the language of this race: Farsi. This kind of racist reconstruction of prehistoric (imaginary) languages essentializes race-based and language-based identities and prioritizes them based on a fabricated history of origins, arrivals, etc., giving rise to the absurd idea about who has come earlier than whom, who has come first, who has come second, who has come last, whose language was spoken earlier than the others; and who, as a result, should have mastery over others. These kinds of non-sensical absurdities serve to create unnecessary competitions among various ethnic/national groups which lead to animosity, mistrust and lack of cooperation among them, while leaving them vulnerable to be colonized and assimilated by the dominant racist order.

The Iranian racist order openly proscribes non-Farsi languages in the country, banning them from becoming languages of education, instruction, learning, correspondence, and governance. By banning non-Farsi languages, the dominant group violates minoritized communities’ identities; subjugates their minds, and brutalizes their spirits. It supplants the indigenous names of geographical landmarks, cities, towns, villages, and streets; appropriates ancient heroes, historical figures, literary figures, scientists, movie stars, popular singers, dancers, and artists belonging to the marginalized communities. It prevents non-Farsi speaking communities from naming their children as they wish, using their own indigenous languages, cultures, names, words, signs, and symbols, forcing them instead to use names and symbols approved by the dominant discourse and praxis.

Azari

My maternal side is from Azarbayejan. All of them are patriotic Iranians. Not one is a separatist. My grandfather would choke you with his bare hands if you called him a Turk. We all hated separatists. 

Kasravi documented that the real Azari language is a variant of Persian. Turkish was forced on them fairly recently. Azar in Persian means "Fire". Azarbayejan is really Adarbaygan the land of Fire. 

The separatist are traitors and worthless aholes. 

Move away if you don't want to be Iranan

VPK

Couldnt get more racist than this Mr. Savalan

What exactly is an Azerbaijani?

We have no Azerbaijanis in Iran. What we have is ethnic Azeris. 

Azerbaijani: a person from the country Azerbaijan

Azeri: an ethnic group within Iran.

You dont go around writing  articles about Shirazis, Kermanis, Khorasanis in jail,but you seem to make a fuss about the Azeris as if their blood is more red than rest of the Iranic peoples.

I condemn the regime on imprisoning ANY iranian for their political and religious views  regardless of their sub-ethnicity within the Iranian umbrella. In other words

Maghaleye shoma por az boye gande pan-turanisme  

In hope of a Free, Independent, Democratic and Secular Iran

The mask of Savalan came off

Separatist support for poorpirar is nothing new.  By the way Poorpirar publishes his books freely in Iran and has his own publishing house.  He is mainly supported by pan-Turks...

Savalan - You give all Iranian Azaris a bad name

The Azari nation has been a contributing, and an inseparable part of the Iranian society and Iran as a country.  While I agree that no minority in Iran should be discriminated against, the only people who go the lunatic extent about the issue that you have gone are separatists and foreign agents who want to see Iran broken apart.  To that end, you may want to give this idiot a call and discuss your issues with her:

 //lecturer.haifa.ac.il/showen/1232

She seems to share your "passion" for "ethnic minorities" in Iran.

BTW, you lost all your credibility when you began praising that idiot "Poupirar" and called him a "historian."   

The Belief that Iran Is the Land of Aryans

Persian racism openly defines Iran as the land of these so-called Aryans who are in turn identified with the dominant Persian group, its language, culture, and identity. Through this racist process, Farsi becomes the only national/official language and the Persian culture gets identified as the national culture of all Iranians; just as Iran’s history gets appropriated to the advantage of this so-called ‘Aryan’ race by excluding, distorting, and erasing the histories, stories, and narratives of other ethnic groups. This exclusion takes place in government-sponsored research projects, schoolbooks, university texts, curriculum, allocation of research funding, etc. In short, under the racist order in Iran, to be Iranian becomes equated with being Persian. This kind of racist identification serves to foreignize and otherize those communities who are not Persian and who do not speak Farsi as their natural mother tongue.

AO, we can finally agree on

AO, we can finally agree on something. This is a load of crap.

We are Iranian, period. 

Savalan, Pourpirar is a historian??!!! PUHLEEZ!!!!

Pourpirar is a pan-Turkist idiot whose delusions can be, and have been, debunked by very rudimentary research.  Here's my comment from a thread that featured this idiot some time ago:

Video and Other Evidence That Debunk This Ani-Iranian Sepratist

by Anonymous Observer on Wed Dec 10, 2008 07:21 AM PST

Here's a YouTube video that debunks these claims:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzOYdOmoOJc

This person is an anti-Iranian, seppratist pan-Turkist.  He has no education beyond a high school diploma, and he certainly has no education in history.  Even his name is not real.  His real name is Nasser Banakonandeh.  He was a high ranking Tudeh Party official, who after the revolution, and after a lover's quarrel with Toudeh, became an "interrogator" for  the Revolutionary Guards (Paasdaran) and was heavily involved in tourture of political prisoners (including some of his former Toudeh Party colleagues) in the 1980's and early 1990's.  This explains why the IRI leaves him alone, which is partially because of his loyalty and partially because of the things that he knows about them. 

Please note that this man's claims are not limited to the Achaemenids.  He claims there was NO civilization in Iran before Islam and after Xrexes, I.  This means that there was no Sassanid Empire either, which, in turn, means that ALL Arab historians, including Ibn Khaldoon, Waghedi and Al-Buladheri, and most importantly, the Prophet Mohamed himself, are either alll liars and / or are all "in" on the Jewish conspiracy that exists in Mr. Banakonandeh's head.  As anyone with basic knowledge of Islam knows, Mohamed himself, on several occasions, spoke of Sassanid Persian kings and Arab historians have written volumes of books on the pre-Islam Persian Empire.  It also means that the battle of Qaddisiyeh never happened, Imam Hussein's wife never existed and.....well, the list is endless!

Mr. Banakonandeh's silly theories also menas that all Greek historians, and Alexander himself, were either liars and / or they were "in" on the conspiracy as well, because they sopke about the whole line of Achaemenid kings (Alexander fighting Darius III, who, according to Pourpirar (or Banakonandeh) never existed).

Here's also a website (out of Iran) which debunks his gibberish:

 //naria.blogfa.com/

For a real, in depth analysis of the history of Iran and Iranians, everyone should read Khodadad Rezakhani's (a registered member of Iranian.com) site.  Here's a link:

//www.iranologie.com/history/history.html

There are great pictures of Iran's historical and cultural places as well, including this one of the palace of Ardeshir-e-Babakan:

//www.iranologie.com/history/pics/Sasanian/Ardeshir-Goor.jpg

Another reputable source of Iran's history is this one:

//www.iranchamber.com/history/historic_periods.php

In clonclusion, I belive that it is highly irresponsible and childish for Iranian.com to post this man's gibberish.  Claerly, this person has an anti-Iranian agenda and he should not be given a forum or publicity.  Moreover, everything that he says is false, and therefore, his ideas have no value.  I understand the provocation factor that this video may cause to attract visitors to this site, but the essential question in these situations is: how low are you willing to go to get clicks on your site? 

There are many things that are provocative, but posting them on a website that proclaims itself to not be bound by any ideoplogy is simply wrong.  What's next? Posting a video denying the Holocaust or praising the gassing of the Kurds by Saddam Husssein?  The supposed argument that the site is neutral and you don't take sides on the issue can be equally applied to posting of those videos.  With freedom of speech and thought comes responsibility, which is conspicously absent on this site in this instance.

He Belief in the Superiority of ‘Aryan’ Race

Persian racism in Iran advocates a racist and racialized view of the world where the so-called ‘Aryan’ race is seen as a superior race. Using the racist ideas of 18-20th centuries Europe as its theoretical/ideological bases, the dominant group exploits the country’s resources to promote lavishly funded research and exploration regarding the history and existence of this ‘superior Aryan race’ in Iran. On the other hand, serious works challenging the supremacy of Aryanist historiography not only do not receive any assistance but are not even allowed publication in Iran. A glaring case in point is the historian Naser Poorpirar whose recent work on the history of Sasanid dynasty was not permitted to be published in Iran. According to his personal website (//naria.persianblog.com/), the author self-published the book in Singapore and shipped it back to Iran for distribution. Ordinarily one would expect that a study critically examining the Orientalist construction of pre-Islamic history of Iran would not encounter any kind of government censorship in the Islamic Republic. Not so. Works like Poorpirar’s are not allowed publication simply because they interrogate the Aryan/Fars-centric history of Iran, powerfully exposing its fictional, disingenuous, and dishonest character.

Getting tiring

Why is it pan-Turks label everyone who is against them as "Persians".  I am Iranian from Tabaristan (Mazandaran), and I am proud to be an Iranian (Persian).   We have our own dialect (close to standard Persian), but it does not mean that every single group has the right to not learn the common language of Iran. 
I have never seen pan-Turk groups accept Persian as the common language of Iran (unlike Baluch, Kurds..etc.) and these groups are racist to the core. 

 Fakhteh Zamani is a pan-Turk who calls Iran a  "so called country".

//www.kavehfarrokh.com/articles/pan-turanism/the-futility-of-advocating-pan-turanism-the-case-of-madame-zamani/

 Azeris are not discriminated against in Iran.  Indeed an Azeri by the name of Khamenei is messing up Iran left and right. 

The fact that Persian is the medium of education is not discrimination as it was 100 years ago in the traditional Maktab Khanas.  For example, in Germany, we have also Turks who do not learn German and several days ago, the German leader had to declare "multi-cultralism" as a failure.

In Iran though, the Persian language has always been the medium of communication and education.  There is no ban on Turkish as it is freely spoken, has its own printed media, magazine, newspapers, t.v. and private courses.  However, all Iranians are obliged to learn Persian.   There is no human rights violation in having a language of communication and education.  France, Germany, England and etc. all have it. 

If pan-Turks actually cared about the language issue, they would ask to remove Arabic instructions.  But rather they have concentrated on the national Iranian language which is Persian. 

 Also pan-Turk groups raise the flag of other countries in soccer games and make racist slogans:

//www.youtube.com/watch?gl=DE&v=e55o871atQA

Their t.v. Gunaz-tv makes racist comments against Kurds, Armenians and Persians.

Pan-Turks have also commited the Armenian, Greek, Assyrian, Zaza and Kurdish genocies.

The rights they offer to minorities like Talysh, Armenians in the republic of Aliev or in Turkey is much less than Iran. 

Lets face it, there is no discrmination against Iranian Azeris.. There is discrimination against Iranian Kurds, Baluchis and etc. who are Sunni.  All of this is just Turkey/Aliev trying to gain influence and that is where exactly someone like Zamani comes in:

//www.kavehfarrokh.com/articles/pan-turanism/the-futility-of-advocating-pan-turanism-the-case-of-madame-zamani/

If pan-Turks have a problem, they should complain to the Turkish guy Ali Khamenei and leave the rest of Iranians alone.

Also do not forgot about genocides commited against Armenians, Assyrians, Greeks by pan-Turkist ideologies.

Why does everyone get so defensive as soon as we start to talk

about Oppresed National Minorities in Iran.

First and formost let me remind all my fellow Persian speakers that most of our non-Persian fellow countrymen and women ( that would be Azaris, Kurds, Arabs, Baluchis, Turkman,...) speak better Persian that us "The Persian." If such claims  sounds exaggerated to you, I reffer you to Ahamd Shamloo ( an Azari by birth) the ultimate modern poet of Iran, one latest example was our martyr Farzad Kamangar: through his letter writing from inside jails of IR he was able to speak with the nation, and through those letters you could see how much he was in love with Persian poetry and culture.

So, it's not as if Persians are facing some aliens bent on destroying Persian letters and culture. What they are facing is a very ligitimate demand to have the ability to speak and read in your own language. It's a bit puzzling why we have such a positive respond when it comes to multi-culturalism in Western Europe and North America, but when anyone mentions anything resembling it in Iran, they're instantly accused of palns for creation of an Iranstan!*

 - Long live the solidarity of all nationalities in Iran.

-Yashasin Azarbaijan

-Hazhy Kordestn, khuzistan, Baluchistan,...

____________________________________________-

* BTW in my case I won't mind changing Iran to either Zapatistan or Spinozaistan? what do you think?