Soosan Khanoom

Ali, you are so wrong that I cannot even believe it

by Soosan Khanoom on Sun Jun 05, 2011 05:37 AM PDT

Decline of Golden Age

One major reasons for the decline of Islamic science is invasions by Crusaders and Mongols on Islamic lands between the 11th and 13th centuries, especially the Mongol invasions of the 13th century. The Mongols destroyed Muslim libraries, observatories, hospitals, and universities, culminating in the destruction of Baghdad, the Abbasid capital and intellectual centre, in 1258, which marked the end of the Islamic Golden Age.

With the fall of Islamic Spain in 1492, the scientific and technological initiative of the Islamic world was inherited by Europeans and laid the foundations for Europe's Renaissance and Scientific Revolution. "

VPK: we have a vaccum in

by alimostofi on Sun Jun 05, 2011 05:33 AM PDT

VPK: we have a vaccum in Iran. The people have a belief system but they really don't know what it formally is. It is a bit like when you go out to shop and you know what you want, but can't find it. So you settle for a compromise. That is as close as I can't get to describing the era we are in. Some of us are there who toil will our labour of love to talk about it here and there, hoping that people will learn. But others will just keep using that old operating system. I use Android and keep changing. Some still use the old Nokias. Facebook is has changed the world communication system and some people are still reading newspapers.

Ali Mostofi

//www.alimostofi.com

 

Dear Ali

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Sun Jun 05, 2011 05:16 AM PDT

 

Soosan Khanoom is a Muslim. They do not want to listen. Rather they want to believe that Islam is the greatest thing that happened to us. No matter how much reason you give it will not matter.

The problem is a closed mind. When people make up their minds with the force of religion it is all over. The one way out is to question but Islam condemns that. A true Muslim is not allowed to question the faith.

Therefore you and I are wasting our time with true Muslims. On the other hand if someone is willing to listen there is hope. But it takes a lot to go against dogma. Years of indoctrination from childhood make it hard.

Sousan: Islamic Golden Age?

by alimostofi on Sun Jun 05, 2011 04:42 AM PDT

Sousan: Islamic Golden Age? Sousan let me humbly correct you. There was no Islam in the period you are referring to. The Moguls wiped out Islam and because of that Koran was not the only book. The Christian Nestorians actually tolerated Art an literature and Iranian culture blossomed. That is why we have Saadi Hafez Molana and why the Shahnameh was printed so many times. Sorry but you got it completely wrong. There is a lot more to this.

Ali Mostofi

//www.alimostofi.com

 

amirkabear4u

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Sun Jun 05, 2011 02:43 AM PDT

• I gather you do agree that Quoran is a book of threats? So now we are to who is responsible for it right?
• How about we blame it on King James? After all he was into this sort of thing.

No matter this book is what Muslims are going by so no matter who wrote it. That is what we have and people read.

 

VPK

by amirkabear4u on Sun Jun 05, 2011 02:20 AM PDT

In my last post I really meant verbal violence which I need to correct it here.

And you done it again;

" think it was either made up by Mohammad and Salman Farsi. Or due to some demonic inspiration."

Why do you think it was done by those you named. If you are really that good in history you should have made a name for yourself. The koran you are refering to is much more recent than you think.
 

Fairness and Equality in Justice

Dear Rozbeh

by Soosan Khanoom on Sat Jun 04, 2011 07:52 PM PDT

of course I did .... and I have talked about it in my comments . Please read some of those whenever you get a chance ...  

Still there has to be a mind ?   :)  

سوسن خانوم، این دعوت به جر و بحث نیست ها..

Roozbeh_Gilani
Sat Jun 04, 2011 06:53 PM PDT

But you have heard of the theory of Evolution by a Guy called Darwin and  The Big bang theory, correct?

 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Soosan Khanoom

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Sat Jun 04, 2011 01:18 PM PDT

 

I will grant you that early Islamic period was relatively tolerant. Definitely more so than Europe of its time. It took a while for the clergy to take root. It was during the Safavids that things got really bad.

And Kasravi proved that Safavids were of "pure" Iranian / Aryan blood. Sort of Ironic. Nevertheless Islam is what we have now. It is useless and anti-productive. It has to go and no way around it. 

The early Islamic rulers did not abide by the Quoran. They drank; allowed infidels to live. And were content to collect massive taxes. The modern Islamists live by Quoran. They are intolerant and refuse to allow original thinking and are doomed.

OK Siavash

by Soosan Khanoom on Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:49 PM PDT

Compare " Islamic Golden Ages " with the " Christianity Dark Ages "  and see how these two are different and why is that?  

Having said that I should also add that today we are experiencing " Islamic Dark Ages " almost everywhere in the world including with our very own pain in the butt " IRI" ... 

may be we should just say that we have two ages in the history to compare ...

Golden Ages vs. Dark ages

and just leave the religion out  of it ....

: ) 

 

Islamic golden agen and our Dr. Shafa

by Siavash300 on Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:38 PM PDT

 

 "Islamic Golden Age (c.750 CE - c.1258 CE) where pholosophers, scientists and engineers of the Islamic world contributed enormously to technology..." Soosan Khanoom.

 "religion has been a cardinal foundation for nearly all empires of antiquity to derive their authority from, it does not possess adequate defining factors to justify attribution in the development of science, technology, and arts to the existence and practice of a certain faith within a particular realm. While various empires in the course of mankind's history had an official religion, we do not normally ascribe their achievements to the faith they practiced. For example, the achievements of the Christian Roman Empire, Byzantine Empire and all subsequent European empires that advocated Christianity are not normally considered one civilization."

From "Rebirth" by Dr. Shoja -e- din Shafa  

VPK

by Soosan Khanoom on Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:00 PM PDT

I am not judging the golden age era with the era of Umar's Invasion of Persia in 644 which  I am not even sure that if it was  for God or Greed?  

I am talking about the Islamic Golden Age (c.750 CE - c.1258 CE) where philosophers, scientists and engineers of the Islamic world contributed enormously to technology...... 

MG....

by Soosan Khanoom on Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:48 AM PDT

I have not read Sorosh's writing on that,  I sort of agree.  

May be because the Islam of the time was an Empire and a Democratic one ( believe it or not).  The freedom was given to any one who was living under this empire regardless of the one's religion or race. So any one then was able to freely contribute and that is if they had something valuable to offer. As the result the Empire succeeded and at the same time owes it greatly to each individual's knowledge and talent.   That is something we see in the U.S after its revolution and independence.  U.S became a safe heaven for immigrants especially scientists and artists from around the world who did not have the chance to flourish as much as they felt that they may have in the U.S....  

I think during Golden Ages of Islam we still , well sort of , were witnessing the separation of church and state ....  Today, however, with all these misguided and misleaded muslims it is better to completely take away the name of Islam or any other religion in that matter and just creat as you said " our own free and equal 'golden age' "  i totally support you on that ...  

: ) 

One more thing

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:42 AM PDT

 

Hafez for all his accomplishments was a Muslim and took the party line. PBS is run by bunch of politically correct liberals. I am sorry but the truth is that Islam provided nothing. It stole from Persian; Greek; Jew and anyone else it could find. Then made a mishmash of it all that has brought a dark age. I feel truly sorry for those who buy into the BS of Islam.

Their liberal allies in the West just feed it. People like Jimmy Carter who called Khomeini a "misunderstood saint". Enough said!

VPK.

Since tha Muslims

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:33 AM PDT

 

Burned every Persian book they found there is little evidence left. Except for a handful of things. For example "Mokkana" did his inventions of "Moon of Nakhsab" by reading the ancient books. Where do you think they came from?

The most sickening thing about Muslims is this. They burn down all the libraries; then say "oh before us you had none". Well we did except Muslims burned them down. And yes MG Greeks did contribute a great deal to it also.

The Islamic Golden Age was formed by translation of Greek

by Mash Ghasem on Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:03 AM PDT

philosophy by Jews into Arabic. 

Sorosh has a discussion about how Islamic civilization was able to 'Tajzieh' o ' Taghzieh' from the World Civilization. Pick and chose what they needed (Greek Rationalism, Aristotel,..). The current Islamic world is only but a poor , gaunt shadow of, a degeneration of, that golden age. IR has been the best 'example' of  such degeneration.

Our futuer lies not in going back to that 'golden age' but to creat our own free and equal 'golden age', in  here and now.(well not here on IC per se, in the real world, you know what I mean).

Storm the Reality Studios.

VPK and Everyone

by Soosan Khanoom on Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:43 AM PDT

There is no doubt that the golden age of Islam owes its scientific achievement to the Iranians scientists but never before in the history of Iran, at least a couple of centuries prior to that, iranians had such an outburst in the science  .... So Iranian scientists also owe it to the values and freedom that Islam of the time ( not the islam of today ) provided for them in terms of scientific studies and research.  There is a  verse in Quran, which I doubt any akhoond even reads it, that suggests if you spend one hour thinking about universe ( how everything is functioning  ) worths more than 70 hours one spend in prayers and worshipping " .... as an Islamic scholar once said " I 'd rather walk in the street thinking of God than sitting in the mosque thinking of my shoes."

I also should add that the Islamic artitechture which has captured the world with its beauty owes its fame to the Iranians architects, artists, and designers of the time... 

May be the Iranian kings prior to that were more interested in women, partying, and spending money for fun causes rather than let the Iranians talent flourishes ... what ever was the reason of the time things changed for better, at least for a while, after the kings were not in power anymore.  

And remember what Hafez said "do not fight with the truth even if your enemy is speaking of it  "   

You and many others may have come to hate Islam and you have every rights to your opinion. But you can not historically deny the events that took place during the Golden Ages  ... by the way, the "Golden Age" is the name given to the Islamic Empire of the time by Jewish and Christians of Europe living  in Spain ..... 

Watch the PBS  documentary on " Islam the empire of faith "  things I mentioned is not just things that I learned or heard in an under grad religion class.....

 

amirkabear4u

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Sat Jun 04, 2011 03:03 AM PDT

 

I do not use violence of any kind against people. Expressing myself is a human right which I use all the time.. Violence is not. 

If you were the creator did you need to make threating remarks to anyone?????

I agree. That is why I do not think Quoran was  sent by the creator. I think it was either made up by Mohammad and Salman Farsi. Or due to some demonic inspiration.

VPK

by amirkabear4u on Sat Jun 04, 2011 02:11 AM PDT

Firstly VPK you said;

"Muslims used both violence and fear to force the damn thing on people. "

since you like to reflect you are any better why don't you try to express yourself in a more civilised way without resorting to insults. To be honest sometimes by reading other peoples' blogs, including yours too, I get the same feeling.

Secondly you mentioned Koran, what makes you think you been reading the right one. If you cared to notice, in the last 40 years or so different formats been printed. If you were the creator did you need to make threating remarks to anyone????? From your writings I get this feeling you are young and unexprienced, a lot of muslems do not believe what they read in modern korans.

Fairness and Equality in Justice

Quran, a book at threats

by Siavash300 on Thu Jun 02, 2011 03:12 PM PDT

 

 " I have read it myself and found it to be a book at threats. It is just line after line filled with threats against unbelievers. Not one good thing in it. " Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

 

Almost every page of the Koran is replete with imprecations against the Kafir and vivid descriptions are given of the terrible fate that awaits him. The post-death destination of a person begins as soon as he is buried (we shall assume a male even though a female is treated similarly). Two Angels (Monker and Nakir) interrogate him in the grave as to his beliefs. If he is an unbeliever he is beaten mercilessly then and there. His terrible cries are heard in all directions, but not upwards so that people on the ground do not hear them (how convenient!) How a cremated body is treated is not specifically detailed, but the Angels can resurrect it even from the minutest particle to administer the beating. Muhammad got this idea from Judaism where the newly buried is subjected to the Hibbût Hakkeber or "beating of the sepulchre".

But this is nothing compared to the fate that awaits the Infidel in the Islamic Hell. The torments in this hell, so vividly described in the Koran, are no different from those in the Jewish hell in which Jesus also believed. This notion of an eternal Hell, common to the three religions, is most destructive to the psychological well-being of people, especially children on whom this absurd notion is inculcated quite early by religionists. It is also one of the strongest fears binding the follower to the religion, often for life, however contrary it may be to common sense.

 

The Gold Age

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Thu Jun 02, 2011 05:26 AM PDT

 

The Golden Age of Islam was built on Sassanid empire. Once Islam took hold that was over. The greatness that was enjoyed was the fruits of seeds that Sassanids planted. It lasted a long time. But finally Islam worked its way.

Once Islam and all its Khorafat took over it was done. No more science; just readying Quoran. I have read it myself and found it to be a book at threats. It is just line after line filled with threats against unbelievers. Not one good thing in it.

Why don't you Muslim scholars show me something good in it? Now go read the Gathas where it is all about good. How we must put other people's good above our own. How we must be tolerant. Religion is not the problem rather Islam is bad.

Islam speread

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Wed Jun 01, 2011 01:47 PM PDT

 

 

Like herpes because it was infectious and nasty. The Muslims used both violence and fear to force the damn thing on people. Then brainwashed the weak minded to keep up the work. That is how a virus works.

Thankfully it is curable. I am proof! The cure is:

• An open mind
• Abandoning your fear
• Most of all it is knowledge

Watching Islam at work also helps :-) 33 years of IR is enough to cure 50% of Iranian Americans of Islam. As the polls show see: 

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_American#Reli...

You too may be cured; there is hope! VPK

Falsification of history

by Siavash300 on Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:17 PM PDT

"He was arguing that Islam expanded like a wild fire through out the world not because of the sword but because of the science and its contribution to it ....." Soosan Khanoom

You were being misinformed my dear. Here is a link of what happened.

Islam expansion in Asia

I recommand strongly to undergrad instructor to visit Topkapi museum in Istanbul, Turkey. Swords of founders of Islam and hair of mohammad, etc, has been preserved there. Those are hard evidences that no one can denies. Wish the instructor look at those swords and  think of those women, children and families who were murdered with it and Tries to feel their deep pain.  

Personally, I saw the trace of those swords in our modern time when Parvaneh Foruhar's breasts was savagely chopped in front of her husband's eyes before her death. I was able to see the historical pattern of what happened then and what is happening now. I was able to make a connection between the blade of those swords and throat of my brothers and sisters who were brutally murdered in Evin prison. Hope that journey opens the eyes of instructor to the reality.

God bless

I agree amirkabear

by Soosan Khanoom on Sat May 28, 2011 08:30 AM PDT

Since early 1900s up to very this minute we are witnessing both the international politicians as well as the "islamy nama" or "rohany nama"  attempted efforts to under value and disgrace Islam. And they  have done a hell of good job .... Mission Accomplished ..

During dark ages when Europe was burning midwives accusing them as witches, the scientists in the East at the time of Islamic  Empire  were practicing medicine and publishing books that they are still using in the universities today ....  during dark ages when church was campaigning against Galileo, determined to kill him, in the East at the time of Islamic Empire  there were scientists studying the law of universe , observing the galaxies ...

I do not know if you have been to the Libarary of congress in washington DC or not but it has a beautiful painted dome back to couple hundred years ago ...There is a painting on it that is symbolizing the contribution of Islam to Science  ... 

once I took an undergrad class in the religion studies and the instructor, a christian himself, made us to study about the golden ages of Islam and scientific discoveries of the time and also the fact that the first library, hospital and university came from that era ...He was arguing that Islam expanded like a wild fire through out the world not because of the sword but because of the science and its contribution to it .....

Now those golden days are gone and we have people like Imam Jomeh Tehran to tell us what Islam is all about ..... what a shame ...

What these clergies have done and are doing could have not even been done by the devil himself ....

But let us not make this blog about religion cause I myself. have hard times understanding the concept of the religions while I am witnessing how sadly they all have failed us ...... 

Hormazd

by Soosan Khanoom on Sat May 28, 2011 07:29 AM PDT

I suggest you go through the couple of pages of reply comments here that I have written. 

I believe the more you know when it comes to science and discoveries the more you realize that you know " nothing "... " absolutely nothing" ....  Nothing is far outdated ...... as a matter of fact we have just started to ask questions and make statements that really make sense .....

Well I guess we are on the same page. You, however, does not like my wordings......  other wise what exactly " the science behind the creation " that you mentioned suggests?

The created world(s) are not the work of an accident or a playful magician..it is a logical calculated of absolutly brilliant events..... now who is behind it and what do you want to call it is something that you can argue about or at most you can say " I do not know " but DENYING it ... that is NOT logical and actually so outdated ...

 

 

bollocks!

by Hormazd on Sat May 28, 2011 06:58 AM PDT

In my opinion the belief that there must be a reason and hence a force behind creation is far outdated. Ever thought that maybe humans arent developed enough to understand the scientifics behind the the creation? 600 years ago most people didnt even know the earth is round.

 

Get over this bollocks.

And another thing

by amirkabear4u on Sat May 28, 2011 02:49 AM PDT

all those Iranians who claim they have sorted it out and make comments like for example;

Who created god?

They do not EVEN KNOW who pulls the string of ahmadeenejad then comment about the creator.

Fairness and Equality in Justice

false religion

by amirkabear4u on Sat May 28, 2011 02:44 AM PDT

I personally prefer to mention "islamy nama" or "rohany nama".

For at least 50 years it been the intention of international politicians to under value and disgrace islam. It seems they are achieving their goal.

However I think this is the essence of politics to 'create confusion and rule'.

Also one should remember all those who comment about the creation want to be scientists or bloggers on this site, they were/are all humans and can make mistakes too.

Fairness and Equality in Justice

"فریدون مشیری"

Soosan Khanoom
Thu May 26, 2011 06:20 AM PDT

گفت: « آنجا چشمة خورشيدهاست 

آسمان‌ها روشن از نور و صفاست 

موج اقيانوس جوشان فضاست. » 

باز من گفتم كه: «بالاتر كجاست؟»

گفت:« بالاتر، جهاني ديگر است 

عالمي كز عالم خاكي جداست 

پهن دشت آسمان بي‌انتهاست» 

باز من گفتم كه: « بالاتر كجاست؟» 

گفت: « بالاتر از آنجا راه نيست 

زان كه آنجا بارگاه كبرياست 

آخرين معراج ما عرش خداست! » 

باز من گفتم كه: « بالاتر كجاست! » 

لحظه‌اي در ديدگانم خيره شد 

گفت:‌« اين انديشه‌ها بس نارساست! » 

گفتمش:‌« از چشم شاعر  كن  نگاه

تا نپنداري كه گفتاري خطاست: 

دورتر از چشمة خورشيدها؛ 

برتر از اين عالم بي‌انتها؛ 

باز هم بالاتر از عرش خدا 

عرصة پرواز مرغ فكر ماست » 

  

Good Question COP

by Soosan Khanoom on Thu May 26, 2011 06:05 AM PDT

At least by that question we are going one step further .... I am not sure how this story ends but we have to first decode the entire universe inside out .... There is billion things to figure out first and I am sure with the capability that is given to us by the designer we will end up with a reasonable answer ... at one point we will stop questioning but untill then sky is our limit 

your question reminded me of the Mosheeri's poem ..... I am going to post it in a separate reply cause Farsi / English posting at the same time makes it a mess here