Soosan Khanoom

Azadeh jan

I am spiritual . I do believe in God of  " Being " .....

but that does not necessarily means that God of  " Being " has no authority over me.  I , however , am free .... free to accept this authority or reject it but what is exactly the authority that God of " Being " has over me ?  

I think it is to let go of my ego ( which is hard to do ) and become all surrounded to him, once that happens then I no longer do anything for the sake of God but for the sake of Love and it is not fear that prevents me from certain actions but love .... I become " IT "  and I try to follow certain values because of the nature of the deed and for the love of it ....the values that are imprinted in us .. all we need to do is  to dig into ourselves and we do not need any organized religion for it .... 

That turns everything spiritual ..... at least that is what I think

I strongly believe that we should never do something  just for the sake of God  but rather for the sake of heart only because the heart makes us feel ....This mentality of doing things for the sake of God is nonfunctional ... is dishonest ... is fake .... is talk and talk is cheap 
It is just something that force you to do something but if you really wanted it from beginning you would have done it anyway ..... 

here is a little rumi I like to share 

A lover asked his beloved,

Do you love yourself more than you love me?

Beloved replied, I have died to myself and I live for you.

I've disappeared from myself and my attributes,

I am present only for you.

I've forgotten all my learnings,

but from knowing you I've become a scholar.

I've lost all my strength, but from your power I am able.

I love myself...I love you.

I love you...I love myself. 

... 

VPK- While I prefer Armani

I still want to meet SK's "designer."  That woman is the source of all knowledge.  I want to meet this oracle and ask her a few questions.  

Thanks, Sousan

However, you evaded to answer my question:

"In other words, I’m asking you why you aren’t spiritual instead of religious."

Come on, Sousan. You can answer this simple question.

Cheers,

Azadeh 

VPK jan

Dry ice in water ....  is that what you are looking for ?  : )

Soosan Khanoom

Yor are making my head smoke. Is there anything about fireless smoke in Koran?

VPK

Azadeh

I actually liked your take on the organized religions and the drawings are great ....

Latest News on Shaytaan  ...... year 2011

Shaytaan was last seen begging God:

" Oh dear Lord show me a Human I will promise to prostrate "

:) 

Beam me up Scotty : )

 VPK and Everyone :

I am talking about the way they would transport themselves from one place to another place by being transformed from the matter to energy .... ( check out the transporter scene in Star trek )

being turned to an smoke less fire and /or  energy  and be able to travel with the speed of light .... 

what was that old saying we Iranian used to say 

" He appeared like Jinn " 

hmmmm.... 1400 yrs before Star Trek you are right and of course I knew it ......... but if I had told it then AO would start again writing poems about dragons  : )

1400 century before Star Trek ... WOW.. may be then Quran is after all a science fiction ....  and actually a good one !!

Star Trek fun video-"Beam me up Scotty"

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qMyg1s6G-E

 LOL 

The Designer

I personally do not go for the designer stuff. I just buy my clothes from regular places. But then there are many designers:

• Yves Saint Laurent
• Gucci
• Dior

Are you happy now Mr. AO. The big question: Why are they all French or Italian?

Responses

Azadeh Jan: I agree with you completely. The modern idea of a single God reflects monarchy. One big king sitting there giving orders and demanding submission. You get out of line and you are toast! Sort of a Shahanshah with various Angels being the lesser Shah or Satraps. Very good observation by you. I remember some kid was asked about God. He said "He sits in the sky and damns people" -) ! Now do we really need this?

Polytheists on the other hand were tolerant. They had a whole host of Gods. So what if a subjugated people had a few more. There was plenty of room for more Gods! 

Now to be fair the old idea of Ahura Mazda was tolerant. Cyrus the Great did allow people to worship as they wanted. He did not impose his single God on them. It was the Judeo-Christian idea that brought about the intolerance.

Soosan Jan: The Jin pre-date Star Trek by 1400 years! You do not seriously mean to say Koran got the idea from Spock! Besides Spock has green blood and is *not* made of smokeless fire.

I actually find Jinn one of the most interesting parts of Koran.

VPK

For Sousan: God/Spirituality Vs Organized Religions

Considering your liberal outlook, why do you think you need a religion in order to be in contact with God? All patriarchal organized religions are oppressive to women (and sometimes to men), source of personal limitations as well as what we could call Evil in the world (Wars, abuse of power, control of people, etc.)

God, as it is experienced by mystics, is within each person, is love and does not need to be worshiped. In other words, I’m asking you why you aren’t spiritual instead of religious. Why do you need Islam or any other religion?

There is a cartoon I drew a while ago to show how truth (spirituality) is the opposite of religion. Have a look at it in case you haven’t seen it before.

//iranian.com/main/blog/azadeh-azad/cartoon-organised-religions

Cheers,  

Azadeh

review of Sacred Causes:

review of Sacred Causes: Religion and Politics from the European Dictators to Al Qaeda by Michael Burleigh. Heaven is a Place on Earth – Part I, Part II, and Part III.

Just show me the proof and we'll call it a day

where is the designer?  Just give me a hint of the whereabouts, and I'll get a PI on it, at my expense.  I'll find her.  As I told you before, I've got to have a talk with her.  

PS- you have invoked a discussion that directly relates to science, and you have failed at every level to offer any scientific proof to back up your claims.  What I said in my comment are the objective conclusions that one can take away from this discussion--absent the fluff and poetry and feelings.  This is a scientific discussion.  You talk about cell structure, etc. but then want to relate that to a "creator" with poetry and feelings and quotes from Quran.  

Where is your scientific proof?!!!

Peaceful Coexistence of Science and Faith:

Peaceful Coexistence of Science and Faith: Interview with NIH Director Francis Collins

Francis S. Collins has long been known in the science world for his leadership of the Human Genome Project, an ambitious 13-year joint endeavor by the National Institutes of Health and the U.S. Department of Energy to identify all of the approximately 20,000 to 25,000 genes in human DNA. The project ended successfully in 2003, guaranteeing Collins’ place in history as a vital contributor to the progress of genetic research.

More recently, however, Collins has been making a name for himself in a different realm — that of religion. As an evangelical Christian and advocate for the peaceful coexistence of faith and science, Collins is a controversial and puzzling figure for many. Conservatives call him a heretic for suggesting that Darwinian evolution is not just truth, but God’s truth, and liberals protested his appointment last summer as head of the National Institutes of Health, claiming his faith makes him unfit to be the director of a major scientific organization. In this interview, Collins addresses the concerns from both sides, and shares how studying DNA sequences is not just research for him, but worship.  

//blog.sojo.net/2010/01/27/peaceful-coexistence-of-science-and-faith-interview-with-nih-director-francis-collins/ 

Dear AO

You mentioned about things that you have learned from this blog that means one thing you have not learned anything from this blog ... I am not sure you even read my replies but thank you anyway for your time and your discussions .  

You are entitle to your opinion and me to mine. There are many who think like you and many who think like me ..  Life is too short to spend it in arguments ... let us agree to disagree then .

Thank you All Iranian and Pendar Neek

I tried to stay away from religion but AO keeps talking about the dragon ... I am getting worried about him : )

and VPK

by them I mean ..... 

Captain Kirk .... Mr. Spock ... Scot  

Unlike AO I am not talking about dragons  : )

So, what have we learned from this piece?

We have learned the following:

1) Einstein was an agnostic (he said so himself-see the reference below);

2) The majority of scientists are atheists;

3) There is absolutely no scientific proof whatsoever of  an "intelligent designer," and people who advocate that theory cannot offer a scientific theory to prove the existence of the deisgner, nor can they produce the designer despite repeated requests;

4) The only "evidence" of "intellligent design" are feelings, poems and elipses;

5)  Evolution is the only proven scientific theory that explains life on Planet Earth as we know it.

End of the story. 

PS- we also learned not to kill weeds in our yards this summer because doing so is akin to killing 18% of ourselves. :-)) 

Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle...literally

Soooo, do you believe in my dragon or what?  It's real.  There's a poem about her....and an ocean of something or another...and there are many elipses in my paragraphs when I talk about her...like the one that I just did...or this one....see, it's GOT to be real.

Remember, my dragon is a merciful creature, but she doesn't like it when you eat pork.  So, next time you have a slice of pepperoni...know this: you will end up burning in her eternal, anger fueled fire.  

VPK

We are discussing evolution. In the evolution theory life have generated from water and  that is exactly what Quran says ....

so by water and everything I meant that .... sorry if I was not clear 

The Qur'an describes that God "made from water every living thing" (21:30). Another verse describes how "Allah has created every animal from water. Of them are some that creep on their bellies, some that walk on two legs, and some that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills, for truly Allah has power over all things" (24:45). These verses support the scientific theory that life began in the Earth's oceans.

Now I am not sure where exactly the Jinn appeared on the evolutionary lines  for sure not in the oceans but later or possibly in a Parallel universe ..  : ) ..... it is not even the subject of this blog .....   

and i am not even a Jinn expert ... many thinks it is a joke but honestly  an smokeless fire can be something like energy ....... 

and if you can turn the matter to the form of energy then you can travel with the speed of light .....  or you can appear where you needed in no time ..... after all energy can be transmitted in the form of light 

I do not know maybe Jinns our a science fiction theory right out of the Star Trek .......  seriously : )   but they were all like an smokeless fire and sure would appear in no time !!

Azadeh Jan

I am so sorry to left your other comment unanswered ..... I just did not get a chance to get to it but I will .... 

Now thanks for your comments here ..... I  do not see that designer as being a male or female .....  It does not makes sense to me to give that designer any human form or attributions ......  I am not even sure to what call it .....

perhaps a mind ..... intelligent and brilliant  !

I understand your points about religions and the idea of Male Supremacy ..... but what do you expect when the one who assigns these duties is a man himself?  like  as you mentioned Motahhari ...

We have this discussion in the other blog even when it comes to men and their translations of Forough poem ...... they do it differently than a woman translator !

Now on the topic of Marriage... It is  a union between two persons . A union which in the ideal world there is no more of she or he but only we .... the end result is going to be one then .... is it not?

now who is the boss makes it more like a business than a personal life .... I think we should leave marriage out of this .....  

So it is different than running a school , a hospital or as i said a country ...

but your points are well taken ...... we just need more women to challenge these male supremacy in the religion...  

Soosan:

The comment by Azadeh is the most rational presentation on 'monotheism.'  Actually I saved her posting.  :-)
I think that you enjoy getting a discussion going which is wonderful.   I didn't understand an expression that you used, but that is not an issue.

Now I need to go and perform my evening prayer at the busiest intersection in town.    :-)

The idea of One God is reflection of Despotism

Soosan Jan: although you have abandoned my previous discussions with you, I'm going for a third attempt :-).

Monotheism appeared with the advent of patriarchy, social classes, and despotic system of governance. This can be easily proven. Some people think that absence of hierarchy or presence of more than one "boss" will create chaos. Nothing can be further from the truth.

Ancient people believed in hundreds of gods and goddesses (the animists,) each representing one phenomenon. For everything and phenomenon, there was one creator and protector of that thing. And everyone found it natural and plausible.

Also, in Ancient Elamite society, where people believed in multitude of gods and goddesses, there were three kings ruling the land instead of one. There IS a relationship between the spiritual / religious beliefs and what people perceive as a good system of government.

The idea that without the existence of one single god there would be chaos is a result of monotheistic outlook. And the idea that without one leader, we will be living in disarray is a result of despotism.

The same logic has been applied by some Muslim clerics like Ayatollah Mottahari who believed the man should be the head of the family, because both man and woman could not run it.

The above instances are interrelated.  Gods and Goddesses, Kings and Queens, men and women, can come to agreement over decisions. It might take longer, but it is more democratic and closer to an enriching spirituality

I'd like to have your feedback on my comment.  Don't leave the discussion. :-)  Thanks.  

Azadeh

Soosan Khanoom

No Koran does not say everything originated from water. Jinn were made of fire. Would you please explain how "Jinn were made of smokeless fire". How does that fit into evolution theory or "all" things being made of water.

Ao you are funny

" I am just anxious to meet the designer that SK is talking about. "

I am not going to turn this blog to a religion argument ......

so far all I am saying is that I can not deny this designer's presence ....

I know it is hard to find this designer on mapquest or google for it .....

 : ) 

Ayatoallah Raoul :)

There are many hands at work but they should be one mind behind them all ...... I mean some one should have the final word and should make the final decision .... everything is in order in universe . there should be one boss otherwise things would be " Khar to Khar " 

you can not even run a country with two presidents .....  

AO

I am not a christian and a supporter of the church when it comes to evolution... and since you keep insisting to bring religion into this then it would be fair to discuss Quran.   Quran has verses that strongly support evolution ... in addition to that Quran specifically mentions that life has originated from water and every thing is based on water  ...May be you are an atheists who used to be christian .....  other wise I do not see any reason for you to bring up the  battle raging between the Evolutionists and Creationists ..... Besides I have stated before that I am all for evolution . How can i not be I am a scientists. I also have mentioned that my choice of words varies.   I see a brilliant mind behind it you see it as accident ..... Evolution is not an accident ... evolution is an intelligent processes ....... the word "  selection " by itself suggests a mind .... as i said things do not just happen .. so please do not act like an educated intellectual who is discussing things with a illiterate priest  ...... if you are not acting as I said then what's the fuss? Evolution is intelligent design. The terms are synonymous. What makes natural selection so nifty is that it kills off unsuccessful designs because they don't succeed and conversely, allows good designs to survive because they do succeed. Guided by this process which I like to call it Intelligent selection, nature remains thriving and healthy. 

Intelligent design is precisely the fundamental mechanism at work in evolution. If evolution was stupid, it obviously wouldn't work. 

I am a big fan of trans-universal pollination

but considering how easy it is for amino acids, the building blocks of life, to be made under Earth's primordial conditions (see my comment below), I tend to believe that life originated here.

I am just anxious to meet the designer that SK is talking about.  I have a few questions to ask this creator.  I want to ask her why she gave me a genetic heart defect that can cause me to suddenly drop dead one day without warning.  It really is annoying waking up in the middle  of a cold night, getting dressed, driving to the ER and wondering if the feeling that I had in my chest was just gas or is it time for me to be dismissed from the planet.  So, I really have a bone to pick with her.     

Is it because the designer wanted to "show me" something?  I want to know.  So, where is she?  Just tell me.  I can Mapquest it.   

AO I agree

Intelligent design is nonsense designed to sound good. Theory of evolution is the most likely one we have. However I still insist that we are far from knowing what is going on. Maybe we are leftover from Martian immigrants!

Maybe left was seeded across the Universe by aliens like in 2001 A Space Odyssey. Who knows? I do not. I think the best approach is to teach science with the caveat of "this is the best we know now". Just like the 19th century physics which turned out to be incomplete. Now we know more but not enough. As time passes and we learn more we make better theories. But a scientific mind is always ready to accept new ideas. The religious mind is the opposite. It is dogmatic and refuses progress.

Intelligent Design = Creationism dressed in a cheap tuxedo

Thank you - but no safsateh please

Can I get a straight answer to my question without philosophical mumbo jumbo such as:

 But the book of creation is an infinite ocean ......

Again, for the millionth time:

Where is this designer?  Is she in space, under a rock, inside a volcano, in the clouds, in the desert?  You have the burden of showing the whereabouts of the creature that you claim exists.  

Now, if you won't, I will the make a revelation and will ask you to accept it without me offering any proof:

There is a dragon that lives in and around Los Angeles.  It lives in a cave, and every once in a while, when it's really hungry, it comes out and breaths fire upon all the surrounding areas.  That is why there are so many brush fires in that area.  And don't believe anything that they tell you about other explanations for those fires.  It's really the dragon that is causing it.  That is because:

I know it....I feel it in my being....

The book on dragons is as big as an ocean....

How can we deny the existence of such a beautiful animal....I see it everywhere I go....its wings...the claws....and the fire.  

There are even poems written about dragons....they're beautiful.... Here's one:

oh, you beautiful dragon...

spread your wings and fly...

breath your fire upon us...

or we might as well die....

See, it exists. :-)))