A Question for Mr. Jahanshah Javid

Reply or not..

My deletions were a gesture of frustration on my part, not respect. Several of my views (not all) were expressed by Azarin.

I thought about it and decided it was disrespectful to the continuity of the thread to have deleted those posts since SO MANY replies were directed to me. I thought it was respectful to reinstate them.

I then responded in general to the cheering section for j's flippant comment. I do not approve of flippancy on the part of the publisher in serious discussions of politics or moderation, of which this vlog is both. But the most irritated parts were for the cheering section, not him.

My comments to j. on the inappropriateness of flippancy in these discussions I have said a million times. This is the million and first. I am sure j. will not fall off his chair if he reads them.

As for the comments to the peanut gallery, about time I finally said them. 

Roxane

The deletion of your post was a very good and wise gesture of yours.

Now, posting this explanation, is like you erase some insults to write grosser insults. I am really pissed off.........yes, even me, your friend.

My tolerance has a limit. I'm really pissed off.

And don't come back to ask me "why" or to tell me "you don't care" becasue I would no more post anything in this blog.

Fro Rosie: Apology Explanation Summary of My Deleted Posts

I deleted the content of several posts I wrote. I've never done it before and I want to explain, but first apologize and summarize them:

The blog had been up for a full day and I wrote a simple post titled Javidi kojaai w/simple text This blog is addressed to one person. A few minutes later J's reply appeared on top of it. Zion posted and then I posted to j. saying the work wasn't superb, it was very good and wouldn't be superb unless he addressed this blog specifically. I also told him Zion's reply was very funny, which it is. Then I nswered Shekar and said that repeating yourself (which he says Zion always does) is not a violation of civil discourse but basically a reply structured directly like Shekar's in the publisher's own style addressed specifically to Zion would be an example of superb moderation (and it would be, even if Zion--or I or others didn't agree with it. It would open a civil dialogue).

I deleted the posts because I overreacted to being told all over the place I am bossing people around. I felt peevish. I deleted two humble posts on Foaad's events thread making simple suggestions too. I shouldn't have done it, I got carried away. I didn't do it because I think I shouldn't make these suggestions. I think we all should. I did it because I felt sick of being criticied for doing it. It was a mistake.

Again.t I did not find J's reply appropriate to Zion. It is natural that overwhelming majority of participants on this website share most of j's politics, myself included. That's what happens in media. You participate in democracy now or new york times or new york post according to compatibility of world view. Very small minority participate to challenge the BASIC (not SPECIFIC but FUNDAMENTAL) ideology of publishers of any media.

I think we are lucky to have Zion because if we didn't have her and people like her we'd all be shooting our wad in a vaccuum and so so what? One day we pray there will be really effectiv e peace talks and if you people think the only ones sitting around the table will be people with ideologies like j. and me and sadegh and niloufar and whoever you are living in a dream world of your own creation.

I support j's moderation system and I do think it's very good but I think the response here was terrible. I'm not surprised j said what he said because that's j and I'm always telling him, you're the leader of the site, you have to set the tone. And sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't, and sometimes he sets a tone I find inappropriate, even destructive. That's the overarching pattern and I'm used to it. Anyway j's whackiness (sorry j, you're whacky, me too...) is the fertile soil on  which this nuthouse of a site grows.

But I cannot for the life of me understand why on this particular thread only the people who share Zion's ideology and me (who doesn't) would disapprove of j's response when it is so unprofessional.

Go ahead, people, tell the people defending Gaza to talk like that to the Israeli government at the peace talks and see where it gets you. Being rude and flippant and facile and self-congratulatroy is not the same thing chaining yourself to an embassy door and being willing to be arrested for your convictions. That's not directed to j.so much as to the people who think what he said is oh so cool.

This is a free speech forum. Freedom of speech implies freedom of hearing. Hearing from the people in power. Otherwise it's just an empty term pissing itself into the wind..

On the other hand we have to note that Zion's blog was featured today. So go figure.

Sorry again for deleting the posts. Peace now.

Roxane

ok non-zionist or moron catcher

or whatever your calling yourself today.

tell me again what it is i said something bad about muslims? the exact bad words i used. tell me the horrible things i said again. just one more time show me where i said anything ugly about muslims. if you can't, you ARE a liar and a coward. dig that?

islamic ethics is a contradiction in terms. this is what your ranting about? thats it???? it's a joke my friend...lol. i can only assume your a muslim since your taking this so personally. if your NOT a muslim, then let me say that your biting off more than you can chew. i've heard a zillion things more specific and worse said against the US ON THIS SITE but then i hear how iranian LOVE america and americans!!!!! let's not get all twisted, ok?

i love many baptists but i hate baptist as a religion. OH MY GOD, KILL ME NOW. i love my family but i point out the contradictions in some of their beliefs as well. OH MY GOD, I HATE MY FAMILY.

dude. come back when you grow up and can talk sensibly... ok?

Anonymous fishie or fishie or whatever the hell you are....

You say that you do not say bad things about Muslims, okay here is the link that clearly shows you don't like Islam or Muslim people:

//iranian.com/main/news/2009/01/12

According to you Islam and Ethics are contradictions huh! So that is why you are a lier.

You keep calling me names like "BIGOT", "... you're a coward and a liar AND a hyprocrite." but you can not say why?

Since you call me names, I got a name for you that really fits well. GARBAGE!

I don't know if my post is going to be published, but I hope they do so because you are such a pathetic thing!

Amused

what's your point? what, i'm not allowed to use the word "we"? or must i use specific names according to... who? you?

samsam is right. it's as simple as that. you don't have to like it. i don't care if you do. but the very same people who talk about people "infesting" this site... or talk about anonymous posters like they are sooooooo above it, are the very same who do it themselves. i'm just pointing out the hyprocrisy...:-)

and to both of them (or you) i say it again. show me where i've ever shown any animosity against muslims or admit right now you're a liar and a coward.

got balls enough? no? didn't think so.

Anonymous fishie:

You keep writing "we" this and "we" that, like "we know who you are," etc. etc.

Who is this "we"? You and your amghezi? Or do you want us to think it's you and Mossad?

to: Ommatist Detector

"ommatist" character here

//iranian.com/main/blog/ebi-amirhosseini-...

"zionist detector" character here

//iranian.com/main/albums/let-gaza-live

LOL, Good catch! Spot on!

to Samsam

you're right... non-zionist and zionist detector sound like the same person. you'd think she would know it was obvious who she was. no matter. we do...:-)

to: ZD and ND... you've never heard me, seen me, or read where i've said anything against muslims. i won't spend one second defending myself against you in that regard. you're a coward and a liar AND a hyprocrite. no matter that the moderators will probably not post this.

yeah, jj is a nice guy and i like him. but one thing you people don't seem to get. you're nothing personal to him, with the exception of a few people. you're hits to his website. nothing more, nothing less.

the moderators are biased and everyone knows it. why are you trying to hide behind this fact? i'm not saying it in a bad way, it's just the truth. human nature.

Sorry Majid

Unfortunately, and I am really sorry about this believe me, I don't take directions on what to do or not to do from you or anyone else for that matter. Sorry about that. I hope I didn't insult you or hurt your feelings by saying this.

Oh, and I don't have any sidekicks. There are decent people, much more respectable than... well whatever, who can read things and decide for themselves what to say or not to say. Again terribly sorry if that was an inconsiderate thing to say on my part. I'm sure you'll forgive me for it.

Chill out everyone....;-)

EVERYONE in this site......go ahead and rent the movie  "WHAT ABOUT BOB".......... and watch it over and over  and......

Some people just don't get it, do they?????

                         ...........G    O           A    W    A    Y .............. 

for God's sake. And take your sidekicks with you!

I think you got the answer you were waiting to hear "AGAIN", this time  from JJ himself! What more keeps you around?

Thanks JJ and moderators, keep up the great job.

Rosie Dear

Please no need for you to get involved in this. I didn't write this blog because you told me so and you are not responsible for anything that is going on here.
I asked a question. I have the answer now. Now we all know formally where everything stands. For the record. We know what it is we are dealing with here, and we can all adjust our expectations of this site and its "moderators". It's all for the best.
----
Also for the record: I have not used any other name , registered or not, to write any comment or blog or anything here except this one. I don't need to. I say what I like to say and I have no need to hide it.

Just for the record. :-)

Oh, and dear Shekar if the problem is with the way I have been addressing some of you as "lot" and "mob" you could have mentioned it earlier. No problemo. I will address your "very lovely group of kind and generous like-minded people with very open minds" using much kinder words from now on. Even though I have no problems with your "lovely side" continuing to address me as "creature" , "bloodsucker", "Sharmootah"(whore), and similar things. No sweat. Deal?

Rosie or whatever

I have been here much longer than you. Like Souri nicely put it enghadr sholooghesh nakon. I wouldn't put it so nicely!

Rosie

I will answer your question. 

There can be no civilized discourse with Zion.  She engages people in discussions ad nauseum and keeps repeating her same jargon over and over again like a tape recorder.  If you read people's interactions with her, you will see that this is not normal behavior for a person who is genuinely interested in a dialogue or discourse. She reads off a script, a template.  Any "human" interaction she ever has with people is to put them down, calling them "your lot," "a mob," or other insulting terms, including but not limited to using deragatory terms for addressing muslims.  I cannot believe the site moderators letting her routinely get away with that. For someone who doesn't appear terribly academic or educated, she certainly talks down to other people, including scholars and academics in our midst.  We see all of that.  We observe it.  We object to this attitude from anyone, Iranian, American, Christian, Jewish, Moslem, or Buddhist.  It is simply not acceptable.  Every time she gets cornered or challenged, she cries "anti semitism."  I can tell you that she has been a poor ambassador for Judaism, to be sure.  Her admitting that she is not even a practicing Jew also adds to speculations about what the heck she is really talking about then.

To answer your question, the discourse on this thread is flawed, because Zion wrote all the supportive anonymous comments herself.  That's called cheating in a dialogue, a practice she has been known to engage in on several other threads.  As for the critical anonymous comments, those are not a fair representation of the way the site members feel, either.  This blog wasn't featured and I can tell you that if it were, you would see the way other site members would collectively react to it, and it would be awful to watch.

I admire you for your good heart and your valiant efforts to try and bring order to this madness.  You are several months late.  The reason things are draining for you is not because you are talking to Iranians.  It is because you are talking to Zion.  Give it up and you will immediately start feeling better. 

Ey baba!

JJ and the moderators: a big thank you for your hard work, I am sure it's disturbing to read all the nasty stuff these people write all day and night. How do you do it? I couldn't stomach these baby-killing machines who come in here to disturb the peace in this website. You are more tolerant than anyone I have ever known!

Rosie: you're not the boss! and apparantly you're not a moderator either.

Shekar: your words are precise, your thoughts are valuable and your comments are the best!

Samsam: your comment is still here (unfortunately) and full of hate and oghdeh, see a professional and get the help you need. wink wink

Zion: nevermind, I am just going to ignore the ignorant.

Rosie jan...baz shloghesh kardi keh :O)))

I believe if you don't do too much, things will take care of themselves.

You are doing too much honey. You were the first one who told us that the moderators (and JJ) are not the police. That we have to be responsible enough to stay away from profanity and personal attack. Now, what happened dear ?

Zion : Can I ask you what's this new form to call everybody "Dear" before starting to insult them ?

Rosy or whatever

It appears that you have appointed yourself a kind of mobser for this site. Whence all this authority with which you speak and direct the rest of us...?

Remember Pink Floyd: "We dont' need no education... we don't need no mind control..."

If you really are a teacher: "Leave those kids alone..."

Me too!

I thank Jahanshah and all moderators for doing as good a job as anybody can. I admire that they even tolerate a certain kind of trash. I certainly wouldn't have!

But I especially thank the folks who know how to address veqaahat with the kind of humor that we don't have to write LOL or make smiley faces for. We just laugh be reesheshoon like we know how!

Dear Shekar

Could you please give some examples of my alleged "hate for Iranians" that is supposed to have "littered" the site and the whatever for which I am "single handedly RESPONSIBLE"? I have been asking for a single example from your lot for some time now, at least so that we can know what it is you keep ranting about all the time?

[...now that you yourself do not seem capable of learning "what others have learned", that is. We still seem to talk to each other a little. :-)]

Zion

Were you smart enough to use this as a tactic to deflect attention from your doings on the site?

Or did you just write it to be nasty as usual, screaming like a banshee just because you can?

You got your answer now.  Mind your venomous tongue.  I am dissatisfied with moderation and management of this site because they let the likes of you get away with murder (no pun intended).  This site is now littered with your hate for Iranians. If that was your mission, your mission has been accomplished. You can stay or leave if you want, nobody cares.

Azarin:

It's sad seeing you say what you are saying. You are a popular writer.  What you don't know is that Zion is single handedly RESPONSIBLE for all the fohsh o fohsh kari on the site over the past month or so.  Catch up with what's been going on and you will see.  Sorry, babe, if you are a good Iranian, if you really love Iran and Iranians, you will not leave the site because of criticism you just received.  You are right, this is not the wonderland it used to be anymore.  This is a war zone started by Zion's hate.  Soon you will learn the lesson many others have already learned:  It's best to ignore the ignorant.

Ignorance is not bliss

Well, except for Azarin Sadegh's, I got pretty much stupid replies to my posting from the rest who thought they had to reply.

Azarin Sadegh:

You are not the only one I was talking about. There are decent people on this site and there are some real nasty people too. I don't think that you are nasty. To be honest, I an not a real fan of your postings but if you are sensitive enough to say that you may leave, probably that makes you worthy enough to stay and contribute.

Anonymous fishie:

Ignorance must be your last name. Nothing can come out of you that is not a lie.

You say "for myself, ... i support muslims. ...you think hamas CARES about the innocent? NO. but it's the obviously bigoted people like YOU and others on this site that want to lump jews and zionists together."

FYI, I noticed your other postings elsewhere on this site attacking Muslim people. That makes you a lier. Where did you see I "lump jews and zionists"? In your dream perhaps. I am half Jewish, but I am no Zionist and never will be. As for Hamas caring or not I don't know, I see only Israeli bombs killing Palestinians, not Hamas. Get real, people are not stupid.

I'm sure you are very proud of yourself "JJ"

As you should be. lol

There we have it then, in case anyone had any doubts left. Look at it this way my friend, twenty years from now, you'll still have memories to write about the kind of guy you were back then. We sympathize. We really do. After all it is well known that recovering from Islamism is a life long process. But it sure is a bummer to have to live with a constant phase retardation, in the order of decades, for all one's life.
I'd take it easy if I were you. ;-)

Khasteh nabashim

I just wanted to thank the moderators, myself included, for doing a superb job.

Non Zionist is the same as

"ommatist" character here

//iranian.com/main/blog/ebi-amirhosseini-103

"zionist detector" character here

//iranian.com/main/albums/let-gaza-live

and a few more annonym  .same vocab same demeanor same emotional immaturity . I know who she is & site has deleted many of my comments exposing her .next time dont use the same tags you used in an email to me on another comment posted here..thats a dead  give away among others..:)  She is the  certain registered character who is protected and given all tools to insult & personaly attack anyone not owning to her retardic views on issues . She doesn,t give a hoot for Palestine and , this is an excuse for her to settle her juvenile hate for  certain other members . She is so ashamed of her vocab that she doesn,t even want to own up to it because she is a phony as I called her demeanor .I have received many emails from readers who are not fooled by her playing annonym neither . & I have enlightened a few too . Madam your gig is up & even poor JJ can,t help u there . folks know who you are and your agenda.. Because they call me "ommati detector" lol..ah no "Zionist detector detector"" .

cheers !!!

This post will automaticaly self delete in 10 seconds... wink wink :)

Interesting!

Yek goldfisheh koochooloo:

'I was arguing that moderators might have acting like what you say to...change your behavior...be honest and accept the faults of the Zionist regime like the massacre that they are perpetuating in Gaza.'

Are you saying if I "confess" to my sins and those of Israel, then I won't get deleted and censored all the time? So is that what the moderators want to hear? You realize those are basically the same kind of reasons why the regime in Iran snuffles free speech of all its dissidents, while allowing its mouthpieces to insult and accuse anyone they like with impunity? Soviet Union was the same. Pravda said whatever it liked, but you disagreed with something or did not "admit" to stuff like you are saying and you ended up in the Gulags. I'm pretty sure that is the reasoning behind all censorships in all totalitarian systems.
What can I say, thank you at least for your honesty. I hope the rest of you guys come out of the closet with such honesty as well.

[As for lesson giving, I am expressing my opinions. You find my opinions insulting or an attempt to give you lessons, here is a good lesson how to deal with it: ;-)
Don't read them. Skip them and read the ones you like! It's easier and less demeaning. No?]

----

Dear Azarin, I know exactly what you mean.

to Non-Zionist

First of all, I would have preferred if you were not anonymous, but anyway...I am going to clarify my point.

Second, you tell me (the only registered user on the thread) that I've kept quiet regarding the bashing of Moslems, etc...I think if you read my writings , you would see that I have always expressed my outrage regarding injustice, no matter who's the victim.

Also, I think helping Unicef, Doctors without Borders, and Amnesty International (to whom I pay monthly donation and right now they’re helping the children in Gaza) should count as the proof of this outrage. Plus, I have signed as many Peace-in-Gaza petition as I could. Is there anything else that you think I should have done?

My support of Zion's complaint is about the level of anger and insults in the comments and non-intervention of moderators.  Last week, I came back to IC after a month of vacation and I was stunned by the amount of anger and "fohsh-o fohsh kari"... I felt in pain to see my favorite site to turn into a fighting club! Has IC turned into a place where the users are being bullied just because they don't agree on some particular way of thinking? 

Honestly, I might not agree with Zion on many subjects. But considering the content of this blog about the non-action of moderators, I fully agree with him.

Since I am a contributor and I use my real name, so I don't want to be associated with a website where users and contributors get insulted on a daily basis without any consequences.  For me the freedom of speech doesn't mean "I have the right to say whatever I want to and ...the hell with others!"!

I repeat again: My main issue is with the embarrassing low level of the used language and non-deletion of all the personal attacks toward the contributors in the comment section...Is this too much asking to keep the discussions in a civilized matter? If this is the meaning of Zionism, then I guess I have been a zionist my whole life and I didn't know it!!

Last, you tell me to leave IC! "Good Ridding!!! Don't come back!"

Do you really think it is in the interest of IC to let go of all the contributors who don’t follow the popular madness? Do you really think I better leave IC just because of my simple request for an insult-less site? 

But if you insist…I would be more than happy to leave, the same way I left Iran… because of the lack of mutual respect as a human being! After all, I think life is too short to keep silent facing insults or to spend it on insulting others anonymously! Voila!

Thanks, Azarin

قربون ضرب المثل های فارسی

مصداق واقعی اینکه میگن « یارو رو تو ده راه نمیدادن سراغ خونه کدخدا رو میگرفت » دقیقاً اینجاست !
خانوم جون...
اون که واسه شما دعوت نامه فرستاده بود پیغام داد و گفت معذرت میخوام ! خوش اومدین ! مواظب در باشین موقع رفتن  نخوره به یه جاتون!

شما کلاً این عادت با شیر رفته تو جونتون....بی دعوت خودتون رو میچپونین یه جا بعدش طلبکارم میشین !

zion,

Zaboonemoon moo dar ovord o to hanooz hichi nabafahmi!

I was arguing that moderators might have acting like what you say to shir-fahmet konand que:

Azizam, we don't have anything against you, but change your behavior we don’t like lesson givers. Or, at least if you give lessons, be honest and accept the faults of the Zionist regime like the massacre that they are perpetuating in Gaza.

Any Answers? :-)

Dear Azarin, Thanks for your comment. The real sad thing is the rate of increase of such acts clear policy. It didn't use to be this way. I really can't understand the point. Why is it they are so afraid of words?

Dear anonymous fishie, thanks.

Yek goldfisheh koochooloo and non-zionist, I think I have already stated it clearly that I don't mind the attacks at all. It is the inconsistency in moderation and the agenda it has set for this website that is the issue.

amirkabear4u and amused, I gather you approve of the way censorship is being systematically waged here to silence some people (The ones you say have infested your website and you don't think mean well.) That means you agree that such a policy is being implemented. That was the main thing I wanted to hear. Thanks. :-)

[You and the rest of the clique don't like to hear certain things so you attack int en mass and by directed "moderation" and censorship deny the other side equal chance even to respond. Good for you. Isn't that the exact same thing that goes on in your country? Still wondering why you never had a democracy? Who do you think is winning?]

Now I have provided a particular instance and asked a simple question. Right or wrong, don't you think there could have been an answer explaining or justifying it by now. Is there no answer? No explanation? I don't know, but doesn't this look like the most pathetic of them all?

why does everyone have to use the word

"zionist" when it comes to supporting israel? wouldn't you be offended if everyone used the term "terrorist" when it came to ALL of the middle east? or iran in particular? are YOU iri? the government is... so why can't i call you an iri supporter?

for myself, i'm nothing even remotely close to a zionist. i do support isreal though. i support muslims. i support christians. i support any and ALL religions, races, and creeds. i am against the violence in gaza. BUT. i do not blame israel exclusively. period. no more no less. i think hamas is a bunch of cowards who hide behind women and children. which is fact but you just can't bring yourself to admit it. i think palestine is fully aware of the repercussions of their denying the latest compromises. you think hamas CARES about the innocent? NO.

but it's the obviously bigoted people like YOU and others on this site that want to lump jews and zionists together.

no wonder there is no peace in iran.