NEW POLICY

I really don't care about Shah or Opposition idiots

Iranian decisions are made in Iran not on Iranian.com.

commnet.

Iran's drug problem is only collateral damage that results from the bargaining game IRI plays with Europe. Opium needs to enter and exit Iran in order to get to Europe, and if some demands can be met by stopping this traffic, IRI would very easily stop it for Europeans , if not the drugs are free to pass through.
But lets not forget that the "heroic" Iranians are the ones who are using these drugs by choice. Now you might argue what choice do they have, well they have a lot of choices except people take the easy way out and that's just human nature.
-------------------------

It is a bit tiring to see that every Iranian keeps bragging about the great past of Iran. "Iran was a great country before the coming of Islam" , "Iran was a tolerant nation before the coming of Islam" , " Iranians suffer because of Arabs that are running our country today"

That just shows you don't know any history. The only reason i'm pointing these out is I want people to stop burying their heads in the glorious past that didn't' even exist and focus on the future.
1. I'm sure most of you can only name two great kings before the coming of Islam and that's more than a 1000 years before the coming of Islam. Darius and Kurosh
2. Before Islam Sasanids ruled our country. We had a cast system, and people like Kartir were in charge and people like mani were executed. Zoroastrian was a court religion and if you were christian, jewish , or any other religion you were prosecuted (records of these prosecutions exist, and this has nothing to do with Zoroastrianism itself)
3. people didn't have access to education , because of the script used in the sasanind era. the creation of the new perso-arabic language gave access to education to the populace. (yeah Iranian were having a great time back then , even though they were put in different casts at least they were too stupid to know it)
4. To say that Iran was only great before the coming of Islam is a disservice to the memory of those people who fought for this country. people like , sarbedaran that was a mixture of secular and religious movement.
5.etc, etc, etc,

so stop being so arrogant , you are not any better than any other race of people. All civilizations have had their ups and downs. Our mentality has only allowed us to be racist against other ethnicities like Arabs, Afghans, Indians and many other and has crippled us by allowing us to be stuck in the past.

Re: Midwesty

Iran's drug problems had begun much before US invasion of Afghanistan. In fact, after the invasion of Afghanistan and multiple fold increase in drug production in there, nothing has much changed in Iran's drug comsuption increase, it still has the same rate than 10 years ago. At least this is how Iran's health ministry reports it. Even if you adjust for the usual IRI "lies", it still is more or less the same. Read it here:

//www.fdo.ir/Global/Fa/Default.aspx

But still that "same" rate is still too huge to the point of a social illness.

Your attempt to "apologize" on behalf of the IRI by blaming the US as the reason for Iran's drug use, is not only childish but also false.

Additionally, one may ask why after the invasion of Afghanistan, other neighboring countries such as Tajikistan, Ozabakestan, Pakistan, torkamanestan, etc, are not suffering a drug problem with the same magnitude than Iran's?

Anyone who defends the IRI regarding the drug issue and blame it on others, must be a regime supporter, perhaps its "reformist" version, but a supporter nevertheless.

You just don't have the balls to admit it in public.

Midwesty: You're being

Midwesty: You're being utterly disingenous here.

You know full well that the IRI's drug problem started way before 2003. In fact, the IRI is involved in drug traffiking and drug dealing itself. It's a major part of financing proxy mercenaries. Where have you been my friend? what planet??? I like to sign up to live there too...lol

Drug addiction is promoted in Iran to keep the populace from rising up against the regime, period.

Why are we jumping from one branch to another?

I personally don't give it a damn for someone who to escape from one problem embraces a bigger one. I've been through thin and think so I believe were many of you and have never tried to suppress my pain with another one.  There is no excuse to abuse drugs and I have no sympathy for people who misuse them. Medicated drug under special circumstances is another story.  But...based on the facts, since US has invaded the neighboring country, Afghanistan, the opium production has been several times multiplied so the number of drug addicts in Iran and consequently Europe. This is not just an incident. It is now cheaper than a pack of cigarettes to obtain drugs. The game of supply and demand plays very well into it.

IRI Cesspool

Midwesty jan: I really don't give a hoot about the Shah or his not-so-bright, opportunistic offspring, Reza Pahlavi.

However, I hate hypocrisy.

I'm thrilled that you're not a xenophobe. My bad!

20 million drug addicts out
by sickofiri (not verified) on Mon Nov 10, 2008 02:27 PM PST

20 million drug addicts out of 66 million:
Iran in a drug fix

//www.atimes.com/ind-pak/CL13Df05.html

Islamic Republic of Drug

Islamic Republic of Drug Addicts! One out of 16 Iranian is a drug addict.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipUbB60XKks

sick

Midwesty, are you suggesting that cheshm-abhia-- which btw displays your xenophobia--did not have anything to do with installing the mullahs?? Where have you been my friend?

  I think you’re missing my point and shooting yourself in the foot. How do you know I have xenophobia?  To answer your question, no sir, in contrary I exactly meant the opposite. When I said cheshm-abi-ha I was referring to shah’s miscalculation about the westerners. How he who once was installed by the west could possibly think that he could defy the west? I tell you why? The price of oil misled him. But that was one small factor.

Re: Midwesty

"Tell me one of the viable alternatives that you mentioned been crushed? Just one and I tell you why it wasn't a viable alternative."

I think Bakhtiar was one such alternative. As you know, the IRI brutally assasinated him.

copied from another

copied from another thread:

//iranian.com/main/2008-374

If the shah had one master, the mollahs have 4 or 5 of them; Russia, China, Islamic caliphate, EU, etc....

considers the history of the Bushehr nuclear power plant. The construction of this plant started in 1975, and 33 years later the plant is as yet not in service! For clarity, 33 years is longer than the life-time of a generation. The Russians have been working on this plant for the past 12 years and as of today it is unclear when they are eventually going to deliver it (at present "2009" is being floated around, which could conceivably mean 31 December 2009);

they are blackmailing/milking the delivery of this plant as an instrument of power in their political dealings with the USA. Further, Iran has as yet to receive a single penny from the companies (e.g. Siemens) that declined to complete the Bushehr power plant, in contravention of the terms of the contract that they had signed with Iran.

If Shah was a "slave" to his "masters", he would still be ruling Iran or his son would still be there.

Tired old 30-year old propaganda is no longer an effective tool to deceive people.

I would suggest you read a few books regarding how the US installed the mullahs in the first place.

Both republicans and democrats have contributed to
installing the mullahs.

I'm hoping Obama et al do the exact same thing to the IRI as they did to the Shah in manufacturing the velvet revolution.

U.S. policies may have contributed to Iran revolution, study says

//www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-f...
Manufactured coup of 1979: " A Centure of War" by William Engdhall

//www.amazon.com/Century-War-Anglo-American-P...
What really happened to the Shah of Iran:

Excerpts from the book:
//www.payvand.com/news/06/mar/1090.html

Report: U.S. Missteps Led To Shah's Overthrow NPR
//www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?story...

The installation of Ayatollah by the West:
//www.williambowles.info/guests/2005/iran_cla...

Carter's Habitat of inhumanity:
//www.investors.com/editorial/editorialconten...

Complicity of France in Manufacturing the Iranian Revolution and Jimmy Carter's betrayal of the Iranian People
//www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1857

Khomeini interview in 1978:
//iranian.com/main/singlepage/2008/khomeini-1...

note: self-proclaimed '"imam khomeini" himself, the ultimate pursuer of independence and the bastion of protection against foreign intervention, believes that the peoples of the world, and the governments of the world, should step in and affect a regime change in Iran to save Iranians from Human Rights abuses and the tyranny of the regime. It is an irony, that the rest of the world is taking his advice to remove his tyrannical regime and his legacy from Iran, and end the ultimate..""

IRI was imposed upon with a

IRI was imposed upon with a war but she confronted the whole world with the backing of ordinary Iranians

Not so, the war after the first two years was a war of Choice. But that is whole other ball of beeswax.

Midwesty, are you suggesting that cheshm-abhia-- which btw displays your xenophobia--did not have anything to do with installing the mullahs?? Where have you been my friend?

How long my friend are you going to drink the Kool-Aid concocted by the Imperialists?

Your version of reality, unfortuantely, is just that,your version; colored perhaps by your religiosity and your background.

IRI extended the war needlessly and to some extent facilitated the start of the war based on Khomeini's personal vendetta against Saadam.

And I really don't care whether you're an IRI agent, khodi, aghazadeh, or not because either way, there is no way in hell you can justify, whitewash, erase the cesspool that the IRI has immersed Iran into.

The proof is there for everyone to see unless you're in denial or deceiving yourself for one reason or another. Or perhaps, it's a cognitive dissonance that people like you can't come to terms with. I don't know.

My friend, your stance on IRI is unprincipled, immoral, unethical, and inhumane and if you don't understand that then you're miscreant of mullah stripe.

don't get too excited!

it's funny that shahdooneh??? and lefties alike are defending obama's every move.
this guy got elected on the platform of "unifying the country" and other bs tag lines! nuts like pelosi, reid, and emanuel DO NOT REPRESENT the values of the american people! get it through your head! and how is have lefty majorities in the house, senate and a lefty president "unifying" america!?
it seems that rookie obama has a lot of payback to his lefty backers- if you are pushing your own radical agenda, how the hell is that unifying the country!
redemption is coming in 2 years, just like it did when clinton messed up big time!
also, I have a feeling that obama and looney biden are going to be tested in a way that they could have never imagined even in their nightmares! god help us

Shah

Shah was flipped from the within. The main flipper was his ignorance towards his own people and arrogance towards cheshm-abi-ha. Always pick a fight that you know you can win. IRI was imposed upon with a war but she confronted the whole world with the backing of ordinary Iranians. If you fail to understand these basic facts you need to look somewhere else my brother/sister. Now call me IRI agent!

Irony

Double standard for Iran...

How very ironic.

Midwesty: Would you have used the same argument to defend the Shah's regime?? Double Standards, eh?

KouroshS: Excellent! Our

KouroshS: Excellent! Our dear Abarmard has a very high thereshold for corruption, brutality, thievary, torture. He reminds me of that sadist Professor, John Yoo of Berkely who legalized torture by twisting the definition of torture.

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo

He also seems to think highly of his "observations". Not only that, he thinks for the country to change, every single xenophobic, racist, chauvanistic, misogynist pig, bigoted hooligans, fanatics, and thugs should approve or agree with the changes.

If that was the case even here in America, we would have still had 'segregation' and Obama would have to sit in the back of the bus.

I have asked Abarmard to articulate his stance based on Objective facts as recently as October 31st, 2008, but he always opts for silence.

Here is a sample of what I'm referring to.

Note: Read the comments of "makenomistake" and "anonymous...).

//iranian.com/main/2008/remove-sanctions

The war of words...

doesn't help any body. Blowing a problem out of proportion also doesn't either. Let’s respect each other’s opinion because respecting even your enemy makes you to assess him/her realistically and let you come up with realistic and effective plans.

The fact is there are many factions inside of IRI. These factions are typical and all other governments possess them too in some degrees of strength. We know the story how Enron scandal led into many out-of-the-blue suicides and how a Blair eager for a war permission silenced his opposition voices from left and right. A while ago I read that in a far Indian village member of a tribe caught a female adulterer, opened her up, empties the content of her stomach and filled it with hot sand, left her in open to die. Did we get media coverage on that?
 

The questions is why so much double standard when it comes to Iran? We know there is a lot of stuff wrong with that country so is with many freaking other countries. But when it comes to Iran they want to see the problems fixed right now, right on the spot and right on the point. Why? Funny enough they want to fix it for us!

I beg your pardon?? What planet are you living on??

You don't see this as fundamentalism and fanaticism? To want and demand people to adhere to the most basic islamic ideologies and to seek the proof of it when people are out on the streets? I think it is the most significant indication of fanaticism when a regime would do all it can to curb its citizens social freedom. How is it that there is only "some" restrictions, when you get nabbed out in the public for making the slightest of violation to their made up and mandatory codes?
be it badhejabi, or the way you are dressed or your long hairs and accessories?

You say that:
In china you get killed if they "assume" you are against the system.

I am sorry, but does the centrist, and pragmatic iranianin officials take you through a process to prove that you are against the regime and once they are convinced that is the case, then you are off to jail? please.
I highly doubt that extermism is "dying out" and there is move to the centerwhen you see mask wearing sobs calling themselves the police walk in the broad daylight,, kicking and dragging people around.

The irony is that i do agree with you that this giant islamic draculla of regime has turned into a capitalistic machine. perhaps a tactic that they have given into to ensure their own survival and preventing a major uprising.

And as far them being "stablished", my friend, you can expect that out of any tyrranical regime in the world when there is an adequate amount of suppression and repression of the society. How do you think Castro in cuba has lasted this long? How do you think Chaves is doing It?

Iam not confusing the dress code and having practically all the social freedom taken away
with some imaginary political freedom when i see and read that people are thrown into jail, and more specifically into a certain area of that jail, and tortured. Don't tell me all that is done under the banner of respect for the right to freedom of expression?

kouroshS

I don't believe the regime in Iran is fanatic. It's a capitalistic system and uses so called "Islamic" dress code to prove its power. Yet many officials in Iran are changing to a more moderate and pragmatic figures. Iran is changing already from revolutionary to a established.

Those who are extremists or totally right wing are dying out, and people are more towards the center. But from what I know, there is no talk or thinking of a revolution or a system change inside Iran. Most people do believe in a gradual change.

We need to push for Rights (Human Rights) and lifting of sanction to empower the Iranians inside. That's the best that we can do to better the lives of Iranians.

In china you get killed if they "assume" you are against the system. That's a fact. Don't mistake the Islamic dress code and some other social restrictions with the political freedom.

slow change?

Abarmard

I am sorry, but we are talking about a seriously fundamentalist mullacracy and i don't care how slow the change process would be, it is not going to shake the foundation of this ragime, which is its fanaticism. they are here to stay and it takes much more conviction and determination to take them out, in a form of the revolution or any kind of movement and unfortunately that is the impetus that is

currently missing in iran. And i really don't blame iranians for it. As it stands, most have found a way out of this mess and are politically neutral or indifferent and as for those who stay behind, well. lets just say those are the ones who have chosen to break bread with IRI.

I also agree with opportunity cost that it does not make any sense to compare the level of brutality exhibited by IRI with other nations and come up with the conclusion thatthey have been more "responsive" or going softer on people. Come on!Brutality is brutality is Brutality! I wish i had never set sight on those horrible images on Youtube on how these street thugs operating under the name of police, with their faces covered, maim and beat our youngsters. But thatis only a fraction of such ruthlessness. I doubt if anyone gets executed in China if he or she dares to start up an anti-gov blog? will they?

shahdooneh, again in a

shahdooneh, again in a typical Since you're so good at basing your wishful thinkings on empirical data, why not provide them. Once you do that then I might feel generous and go to the trouble of wasting some more time on this thread to back up my "clairvoyant" prognosis.

I see ,once again, you're obssessing over whether you're going to lose your ATM in the near future or not...lol

Opportunity Cost, since you say...

"Acceptance does not mean inaction or not whitewashing (I think you didn't mean to say "not" here) the injustices committed by the evil.", I'm wondering what kind of ACTIONS you have indulged in to get rid of the "evil". So far you've predicted a civil war and/or revolution because oil revenues will "dry up" in the "next 10 years" among other factors. Do you have any data to back up your doom and gloom predictions about the depletion of oil reserves in Iran? Was it a coincidence that you failed to mention Iran's almost untapped natural gas reserves which will be the fuel of the future instead of oil. After all when it comes to fantastic predictions nothing seems to get in your way.

At times it may be necessary

At times it may be necessary temporarily to accept a lesser evil, but one must never label a necessary evil as good; one must never contribute directly or indirectly to perpetuat it either. Acceptance does not mean inaction or not whitewashing the injustices committed by the evil.

Things are bound to get worse as it always does in authoritarian systems. The system is simply not sustainable as it is structurally and fundemantally broken. You can't build castles on sands forever.

Everything is going against it; including drying up of oil revenues in the next 10 years and the election of Obama.

How much longer can the regime buy the loyalty of basijees and hizballhi?

I also don't agree that the Chinese or Egyptions are more brutal than the IRI. IRI is certainly more corrupt than those two.

Abarmard, how do you quantify ruthlessness?? How much more ruthless can IRI get for you to be appalled? IRI is simply smarter at fooling people that they are less ruthless. When was the last time China stoned someone to death. Why should you even compare Egypt with US Iranians. Have we sunk this low?

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does."--Margert Mead

DK

What you are saying is great, we do deserve better in Iran and would be great to have that. I just don't get that impression from the people of Iran, villages and towns, and don't see any quick solutions. 

As you  can see the below comment, "Opportunity Cost" is hinting that civil war is long due. That's a huge possibility from my point of view also. There are many ways, systems or style that I wish Iran to be governed by, yet there is also a chance for things to get worse. If government needs to go, we need to know how and what would replace the vacuum of the Islamic Republic. 

Some think that things can't get worse, or we are special people that wars or civil wars can't be a part of our history. I disagree and worried about it. I certainly rather have the Islamic Republic than any wars or uncertainty that could turn Iran a part. So I draw the line somewhere.

I don't see any possibility to have a better Iran than to believe in the people and hope that our society would evolve to get there. I have not heard any ideas that appeals to me personally and although I see the regime as a backward, religious and "khoshk Maz-hab"(not all within it but many powerful decision makers are currently), yet I still think that the Islamic Republic has not been formed to be the way it is for good. It can change. Perhaps gradual change, that might not be fast enough for some, but it can change. It has shown some level of responsiveness and let's face it, the IR is not as ruthless as Chinese, Egyptian, or some other dictatorial regimes that we are familiar with.

Sometimes slower movements, if they exists, are better than a quick fast answers. I don't believe that Iran and Iranians are standing still and movements have been blocked. As long as there are some movements, I keep my hope alive. Otherwise, revolution might be the final path that Iranians see as a solution. Then, when people want it, it will come... 

Abarmard & Midwesty:confusing Regime Interests & CIVIL SOCIETY

who is calling for revolution ? What does supporting the CIVIL SOCIETY as OPPOSED TO supporting the REGIME have to do with calling for Violent Change or calling for Military Attack on Iran ?

Midwesty keeps highlighting the IRANIAN PEOPLE but he means the IRANIAN REGIME since it consists of giving them once again credit and trust for conducting in unconditional negotiations. WHAT does THAT have to do with supporting IRANIANS ?

Supporting CIVIL SOCIETY is EXACTLY what Moderate Iranians in the Diaspora have suggested and which echoes with what the majority of Iranians in Iran would like to see. That is have their voice HEARD !

Why is it that most of you guys keep refuting ANY DIALOGUE with them including people like Abbas Milani, Akbar Ganji or Azar Nafisi.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=M02xYwKAJIM

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTEAlcT8sos

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHLd-dfrrsk&feature=channel

What Shocks you in what they suggest? After all I find myself more in touch both philisophically and humanly with them than with this mullah's mentality.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QY1T-2f_KM

So Why Are these People attacked vigourously and hatefully by those you guys seem to support or admire so much ? The likes of Hamid Dabashi or Soraya Ulrich are a Parody of Intellectuals.

Its not we who are out of touch with Iran and Iranians but the Regime in Iran who is out of touch with the World and universal values that most humanists share.

WE SIMPLY BELIEVE OUR COUNTRY AND COUNTRYMEN AND WOMEN DESERVE BETTER.

I say this with NO ANGER but DETERMINATION AND CONVICTION.

That is the major reason of our opposing the Regime and NOT the People who have NO SAY in the upcoming possible negotiations.

If that is to happen on a diplomatic level WHAT does that have to do with the IRANIANS and THEIR INTERESTS.

By Supporting Civil Society like it was done in Poland for instance during the solidarnosc years we mean that the West and free world should take into account a thriving civil society in the making and their voice. It is this civil society that can ultimately reveal and create those potential leaders who can then take charge if they get the necessary support and international recognition.

You guys seem on the contrary to continuously defend the political agenda of the regime which is struggling for its own survival. That is not what I call a Support for IRANIANS as Midwesty or you suggest.

My humble opinion,

D

The answer to your list is a

The answer to your list is a resounding NO to all except the need for Revolution, however, I don't think that all anti-revolutions are all hezbollahi or basiji or part of the system. They are simply wishful thinkers, pacified by propaganda and sheer brutality of the regime and the cost of dissent, disillusioned, fearful of their lives, occupied with staying alive and making ends meet, self-deception, etc....

But once the cycle of self-deception reaches its critical mass, which most certainly will in due time, there will be an implosion.

The timing of this revolution and its occurrence or nonoccurence are not going to be determined either by you or me. But I will guarantee you that in 10 years there will a revolution either manufactured or organic against the system.

This revolution will have a cathartic effect on the soul and the psychee of the Iranian nation. A civil war is inevitable in Iran. It has been postponed for too long...We are in need of civil war a la American civil war.

opportunitycost

If you think that:

-Iranians are sitting and talking about the Zoroaster or 2500 years ago greatness

-They are ready to revolt

-Opposition in LA is appealing to Iranians

-Iranians are not Muslim, or hate Islam

-The system is Islamic ideology and there are no other voices or movements within the country

-Our backwardness is directly related to the system alone

-Whoever that talks about other possibilities than revolution is pro system, Muslim, Hezbullahi, etc. 

-and similar stuff.

Then you are part of the group that I had mentioned, otherwise you are not.  

I stand by what I said, Iran is not a certain part of Tehran, unlike what you claim, I am not talking about my family or certain part of the country. I wish it was not the way it is, but my wish does not change the reality.

Finally, I agree with your name "opportunity cost". We have lost a great deal, some of those are now have turned to sunk cost. Now what can be done? 

Abarmard: You're incredibly

Abarmard: You're incredibly presumptuous and condescending. Why do you think people are not in touch with Iran or don't understand how Iran has changed.

I think you live an Islamic bubble. I think you come from a very religious background. Your views are colored by what you're exposed to when you travel to Iran. Your family members and your sphere of relatives and acquaintances in Iran are not representative samples of the whole of Iran.

You're myopic as usual and as always never provide anything to substantiate your claims except accusing others of being stupid or out of touch.

I think because you have so much stake at not seeing the objective truth has made you a reality-challenged armchair "expert" on Iran.

Dear Abarmard, the taghootis made the same claims as your ilk does way back then. You're in for a rude awakening.

Thanks Abarmard,

I am glad to be back. I missed you guys!

What you said is very true. Iran has changed and amazingly changes always happen in Iran very quickly. For some part it saddens me but for most I am happy we passed some ugly and rough times. I congratulate you on Obama's election. A year ago when we were writing for Obama while he was facing some serious uphill battles, the future was dim and hope was out of sight but amazingly he is here now…

Welcome back

Mr. Midwesty, good to read you again.

The problem with many Iranians out of Iran is that they are not in touch with Iran and think Iran is the same country when they left...

Shadooneh

I agree with you 100% and that reiterates my point that we need to act swiftly preventing this admin from being hijacked by the same "Iran Experts" herd.

Jamshid,

Tell me one of the viable alternatives that you mentioned been crushed? Just one and I tell you why it wasn't a viable alternative.