IRAN-ISRAEL

Re: The Issue

Dear Ben, you are right. As you see I continue a debate only as long as it adds anything meaningful to the discussion and stop afterwards. :)

Anonym7, I agree with you, we need to have this dialogue. Difference of opinion is natural, we are individuals with different ways of looking at the world. As long as we talk to each other that is all fine.

Anonymous Observer, I have the same question as well. In my opinion, the reason there is so much fixation on Israel among Iranians is partly because it reflects the unresolved issues within the Iranian modern culture in a more pronounced way. I am thinking of expanding on this in another article soon.

Why Are We In This Constant Debate About Palestine?

Aside from the the "humanity" debate which may apply to any number of countries and suffering nations (i.e, Darfur, Somalia, North Korea...) can anyone clarify for me why we as Iranians should be fixated on the Israeli / Palestinian issue when our people are facing enormous social and economic problems such as out of control (I believe the highest rate in the world - here is a link to the subject as of 2005:
//www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?...) addiction, unemployment, inflation...etc.?

Can someone point me to an article that has been written recently on Iranian.com about ways to help the Iranian society combat addiction- as opposed to the myriad of emotionally charged, highly commenetd on Palestinian / Israeli conflict?

What is it with you people and your desire to be the standrad bearer of an Arab issue?

the dialog must go on! (to anonym, and ...)

Like many of you I disagree with many things that Zion says, but I am glad that he is posting here. The dialogs such as the one that Q and Zion have must go on. I have argued with Zion on several other occasions and I have much more respect for him than some of these Iranian extremists such as the retard below who consistently calls those of us who disagree with him "evil", "islamofaschist" ...., regurgitating right wing radicals such as Rush Limbaugh, John Bolton and ....

The issue

Zion, you don't need convincing anybody, you wrote the article, some people read it, some agreed, while others didn't. Let it be ;)


The fact of the matter, as I see it, is that Iranian leaders shall not be preoccupied with distant foreign affairs that DO NOT affect their citizens' lives. Palestinians have their own Arab neighbours and they need to deal with their own problems in their own turn and Iran is not a desirable part in the whole issue. Any government shall take care of its own citizens, that is, any legitimate government. I doubt Iranians would normally see it as acceptable for their government to pay Hamas, Hezbollah and others with hundreds of millions of dollars. I truly doubt it. But Iranian government is not a legitimate and popular one. Ahmadinejad must not say things like that because it does not serve the interests of the Iranian people, PERIOD.

Spin!

Oh, yeah... That's where the problem lies, the semantics! I guess that now makes it alright for the "modern state of Israel" to raze Ghaza strip to the ground and bomb its "bacward" people to the stone age!!!

Now it is getting funny

I won`t waste pixels to repeat what I have said and what evey intelligent being would understand. You are most welcome to keep defending your heroic president with repetitive nonsensical kindergarten arguments like a broken grammaphone.

Nice reply Q

Nice reply Q...I think you're right on the money there.

Wrong Zion

Wrong wrong again...

You are conviniently trying to put your own twisted self-serving explanation here. Nobody is buying it.

If someone is fanatical enough to actually want to bomb Israel and says so publically, that person has no qualms about repeating it. Either he is not a fanatic, or he really means it like USSR. You simultaniously say Ahmadinejad is reckless and careful. This puts you in a position to say: "yes, he's lying here, he's telling the truth there." In other words, his words mean whatever YOU say without objective verification. That's called cherry picking.

So juvenile...

So is your last question. I never said they are "essentially the same cateogry" I said, he has likened the destruction of Zionist entity (a government) to USSR. In the same way that it "disappeared", so will the Zionist "regime".

There must be dozens of reasons why IRI does not have diplomatic relations with Israel. This is not relevant. Quit wasting time.

Yes Exactly!

Of course they are doing both. What is so incomprehensible for you there? They have been saying this for so long, they were pretty surprised when this time it suddenly provoked such reaction (so were many of us!), so they decided to tone down this particular case and take it up again when time is ripe. Ahmadinejad evidently has no qualms about deliberately creating reactions of this sort, but this one time his overlords figured they needed to pressure him to tone it down a bit.

`The only aspect of USSR that is important is that it has disappeared form the face of the earth.`
Exactly! That`s why this time they couldn`t use the older and more favourite comparison with South Africa for their damage control.

Now my question to you again: If Israel and USSR are in essentially the same category in the eyes of Islamists ruling Iran, why doesn`t the Islamic Republic have the same kind of mutual relationships with Israel, have the leader merely write some letters of crappy advice to Israeli heads of state and just mind its own business and let Israel fall apart as did Soviet Union?

Once again, you insert your own biased opinion

Zion, you are seriously stretching. So, let me get this straight.

You think Iran both actively calls for Israel's destruction AND does damage control when asked about it? So he is telling the truth when he says he wants to destroy Israel but he's lying when he says he wants it to disappear like USSR? So if that's what he really wants (apparently enough to state it repeatedly) why deny it?
How selective can you possibly get?

Your analysis of "USSR" is completely irrelevent and shows your desperation. The only aspect of USSR that is important is that it has disappeared form the face of the earth. Don't waste our time with your meaningless comparisons of nation-states and "acceptance." A shameless attempt at confusion and avoiding the real issue. Very typical.

USSR?

Q, your president`s USSR analogy was a very stupid damage control. It was damage controle because his own statement, his predecessors statements and his own later statements all show clearly that Islamic Republic`s position has always been a call to actively destroy Israel. It was stupid, because USSR was a closed communist cage of different states and nations. Israel is a one nation state, not a union of several ones to disintegrate, a state with free press where dissent is legal and deomcracy is in action.

Now that we are at it, if your leaders see Israel as yet another soviet union and nothing more, why is it that Islamic Iran saw no ethical problems with recognizing the Soviet Union, although some of its republics actually used to be parts of Iran a relatively short time before, but does not recognize Israel? Any thoughts on that?

To Gol dust and her/his associates

I'm not an Israeli fan however what I don't understand is why you are defending Palestinians, when they supported Saddam in Iran-Iraq war. Even now they are getting fund, Money that belongs to Iranian nation. Please justify your support because I'm lost. So far Israel has been nothing but rhetoric that it's going to attack Iran which I doubt, on the other hand Hammas and Fatah are fighting each other, killing their own kind, with our money...please enlighten me, if I'm mistaken.

Zion (ist) shame on you all for killing palestinian familes!

Zion, stop your damn PR game! the problem with you all is that you think you can fool the world all the time! no matter what you call it, it is a holocust and you know it! just get out of this site, before you bring your holocust to iran! you guys are the reason for all the mid east wars! go to hell you racists and anti humanity!

Zion what part of "USSR" don't you understand?

did anyone die with USSR got wiped off the map? Why are you avoiding this question?

Jamshid: What happened to Rosie T and Sasha?

.

Zion and Jamshid playing ping pong

Har do sar o tahe yek karbasand.

Zion, Go to Israel!

..and leave us alone!
Israeli crimes are a shame for humanity!
When humanity looks back at this era it would wonder in shame that how this crime can go on for decades....

and sahme on you too!

my great observation (to Kashani)

Kashani says: "Zion, great observation. Very true facts. The reality is theee evil leftist and IRI apologists Iranians on this site and ..."

Kashani, many extremists in this site are getting better and more civilized but you. key_mikhAi_Adam_beshi?

You will never get any apologies from them

Dear Jamshid, you will never get any such apologies. Different people act according to their self interests. It is not surprsing that the palestinians took Saddam`s side in the Iran-Iraq war. What is surprising is that an Iranian government shoul be backing Palestinians so unreservedly. Instead of wasting time with demanding anything of the palestinians, a responsible true represntative government of Iran should simply recognize its friends and foes and sort its priorities in order and act accordingly in the political scene in the future. Act to the benefits of its people and to the support of its natural allies, and rationally towards other parties that do not belong to its circel of friends. You will see that even the palestinians will start treating you with respect. Not with opportunism as they do now, for obvious reasons, but with actual respect. That is the way the world is.

Oh, my poor

Oh, my poor baby...Israel......I feel petty for you.....please kill more Palestinian babies and women....Please extinct them quickly....and hide the corpses under the media carpet.....the faster and more frequent you kill them, the earlier you finish the job.......The balance of population is getting better and better already ........ EXCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPT, dont's forget.......God is watching you! Be wary of God.......Remember the God does not belong to any race.....We all belong to God.....AND.....he's the protector of the oppressed.

BLAH BLAH BLAH.......Can't justify ethnic cleansing

Only Jews who suffered holocaust can understand what Palestinians are going through....NOT the zionists!

Justice must prevail for all humanity.....

Anonym7

I hope so too. If we all survive these lunatics, that day will inevitably come.

Q, do you see the word `side note` on the article itself? How am I changing the subject. I do not accpet your point because it is not a valid one. This is no game of I-concede-one-thing-you-do-too-just-to-be-even. Ifyou have a valid point, I`ll accept it. As far as you don`t I can`t.
There is no real distinction between saying `Zionist entity must be wiped off the map` or `Zionist regime must be vanished from teh face of time` or any other variation of this. The message is the same. The link to Wikipedia of the actual persian transliterated form with word for word translation of the words. End of story.

Zion, great observation.

Zion, great observation. Very true facts. The reality is theee evil leftist and IRI apologists Iranians on this site and elsewhere spare no effort on blaming others, specially U.S and Israel, for the actions of our own regime and our own people because they have been brainwashed by the Marxist Islamist propaganda machine represented in Hezb Toodeh, Khomeini, Soroush, Shariati...and others.

Zion, I get it! It's laughable!

now you are forced to redefine the "main point" of the article? That's rich!

This is a sleazy and typical way to get out of facing the clear evidence that from Project Censorship that I provided for you.

As usualy you want to bash Iran and Islam like you typically do, but will never give an inch even when there is clear proof in front of you. Your thoughtful response? Some BS about how I must be making it up!!! Good one!

It was mistranslated. Would it kill you to admit this and correct your mistake in the article? I think it would. Why? It's not about truth with you. You are just a foot soldier defending Zion.

This really helps clarify where you come from, Zion, keep it up.

Fact is that Zionists are killers and blood suckers.

No Confusion about that!

Indeed Abarmard (to Zion)

Zion, as Abarmard said Iran and Israel have no reason to attack each other. There are extremists in both sides though. I am sure you remember that Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by Yigal Amir, a right-wing Israeli radical.....
Anyhow, hope to see the day that Israeli tourists come to Isfahan, visiting simply beautiful Jacob synagogue and ... (I visited it a couple years ago).

Indeed Abarmard

the question however is why shoudl the Islamic Republic of Iran view Israel, for the past 29 years, as a threat? Israel has no enmity with Iran and is now being forced to defend itself and take constant postion against the regime in Iran.

Israel and Iran are not enemies

The way I see it is that Israel sees Iran a threat and Iran sees Israel a threat, while both have no reason to attack one another. If time permits I will elaborate on this in my future article.

I don't believe that any Israeli would take the word Holocaust in vain. I believe that this is mis interpretation and should be left alone.

metzenbaum

Yes you are right. I said the same thing.
חורבן churban meaning `ruin`, comes from the verb le-hitcharben, `to make a mess of something` and is also used in some circles but it is not as prevelant as Ha-shoah.
Thanks.

Daryush and Q

The main point of the article is of how the media distorts and propagates wrong information against Israel all the time, despite the usual claim that the Zionist control the media. It was a BBC reporter for instance who wrote she had tears falling for Arafat`s death. Makes you wonder what kind of `objective` or Zionist controlled media would they be.
The issue of Ahmadinejad was a side note in response to a point raised before. The fact that you insist on whitewashing it proves nothing. Ahmadinjead has utterd much worse words against Israel than this, as have all the other officials of this regime in the past 29 years. He was forced to back off and use double talk afterwards inthis particular case, but what he said is documented and clear, as I have already explained. That you have written about this before and tried to defend the regime in Iran as usual is no surprise to me, neitehr is it of any value since you have already proved here many time that the things you claim are simply not true.