WAR

Voiceofreason I am willing to take your case and sue

Dear friend:
As an attorney at law I'm willing to take up your case against the Iranian nation and sue them. Meanwhile go ahead and stir some more problems for the people of Middle East. Bomb them, destroy their houses, burn their crops, destroty their cities.
Keep on hating. Grow your hate, let it burn everything Iranian or moslem. You know you are entitle to everything good on this earth and nobody else.

R et al: You're really not

R et al: You're really not helping the anti-war cause by attacking Craig. Craig represents at least more than a million people,perhaps even more.

You have managed to quadrupled the number of people who think like Craig in just a last few minutes.

There are thousands of Craigs out there wishing the same thing on Iran because they have lost irreplaceable loved ones and they will not be silenced until they get some justice. At least, Craig is willing to listen to the Persian community point of views.

Nazy, You said “I have met

Nazy, You said “I have met Programmer Craig in cyberspace many times, and I have found him enthusiastic and articulate, never abusive,..”

I had a polite conversation with P. Craig under the thread “Neocons on the run” (go see my comment for yourself), someone wrote something to him and look at his reply below. He showed me his true colors, and the fact that he wants Iran to be attacked and bombed and to become another Iraq, and his deliberate dodging of important matters says a lot about him and his claiming to care for the United States of America.

"PC, Great rebuttle. BTW, Congratualtion are in order for you! The scumbag is dead...hahaha
(Progrmer Craig): “Thanks! I know, happiest day I've had in a while! He deserved worse but we take what we can get, right :)”

??? But then again, not surprising at all.

Dear Concerned Citizen & Synonymous Anonymous

Who I am:

First of all, who I am is another concerned Iranian citizen. Secondly, since you ask me to "focus on Art" I assume you are referring to what we do at BeyondPersia, so you must know a little about me. I will respond by saying that the purpose of my article was in keeping with all my other articles and interviews; to promote Persian culture.  Any art, books, films or music made by, for or about the Persian people is absolutely within the jurisdiction of what we set out to do at BeyondPersia. And the driving force of our mission is to overcome the dodgy image Iranians have in the West. This image is aggravated partially by the disrespectful, arrogant, sometimes sexist, and too often cowardly sniping on this site for instance, that belies only a certain self-hatred.  This is a real shame, and one that is (and has been) used against us by those who’d like to see us fail as a collective. However, as a contributor to Iranian.com under my own name, with nothing to hide and no agenda (for the record, I loathe the IRI, am not Jewish, Moslem or Christian, dislike organized religion in general and find many faults with Mossadegh and the Shah) I reserve the right to bring up, defend or "interfere” with any subject that interests me, just like anyone else. If you'd care to step out of the shadows and let me know who you are, perhaps I can convince you via email, or at our next event, why when it comes to Iranian politics, I am just as informed as anyone else and more than many. I'd thank you to direct your patronizing remarks to me directly so I may address them directly.  "With all due respect"
Lale'

To the rest of you, I'm glad this is a subject that interests you, but I still can't believe you're buying into the hatemongering that is in fact the agenda du jour by those who get rich from it.

anonymous-patriot: I advise

anonymous-patriot: I advise you not to mess with "Craig Boy". You have no idea what you're talking about. You're clueless. Stop portraying Iranians as hooligan street thugs.

Suppose Q's one-sided and

Suppose Q's one-sided and out of-historical-context narrative is the absolute "truth and nothing but the truth", What are Q et al going to do about it?

Are they implying that the Islamic Republic's hostile behavior is justified because they haven't still gotten their full revenge? Is the Islamic Republic envisioning utter destruction of the US because they've been "harmed" so "egregiously" in the past???

Would the Islamic Republic or the Iranian people like to go to Internation Courts to settle their grievances against each other? How about the grievances of the Iranian people against the Islamic Republic? Should Iranian people take the Islamic Republic to International Court for the harm it has done to its own citizens and nation?

What is the solution to this long-standing animosity between the two nations? War? more proxy wars? More terror? Is that really the solution?

Craigy-Boy

To my learned friend, "Q",

Please don't waste your time arguing with the half-wit. He will drive you crazy. It doesn’t matter what you say. This SOB is an agent of "Fox News" propaganda machine, especially formulated to drive you and I crazy. One thing I do give him in all this banter: “there ain’t anything we can say that he will not refute with rudimentary republicanism”; mainly that America is just in the absolute, even when it commits genocide. I think you and I should save our brain cells for something better. Let him squirm in the cesspool of his ideology while I pay him a visit in person.

Craig: can I pay you to read Kinzer's book?

Your ignorance is reaching dangerous levels. First of all, you either did not read or are purposefully ignoring my long statement below. But as to what you did choose to address:

US didn't actually DO anything in that 1953 "coup", other than offer the Shah advice.

is this a joke Craig? You mean you have never heard of CIA Operation Ajax that cost the US tax payers millions of dollars to secure Oil contracts? The Shah was hardly even aware of what was happening.

This was no "advice"! It was a coup-de-tat, a classic, text-book foreign intervention in direct violation of the UN charter and Iran's sovereignty. It was an independent operation by US and UK headed by a direct US operative reporting to CIA. This is just the first paragraph from Wikipedia:

------------------------

In the 1953 Iranian coup d'état, the United Kingdom and the United States orchestrated the overthrow of the democratically-elected administration of Prime Minister Mohammed Mosaddeq and his cabinet from power. The support of the coup was carried out, using widespread bribery[1] in a covert operation by Kermit Roosevelt, Jr. for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). According to a report on the BBC, Britain, motivated by its desire to control Iranian oil fields, contributed to funding for the widespread bribery of Iranian officials, news media and others. The project to overthrow Iran's government was codenamed Operation Ajax (officially TP-AJAX).[2] The coup re-installed Mohammad Reza Pahlavi in the primary position of power. In 2000, former U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, during the administration of President Bill Clinton, called it a "setback for democratic government" in Iran.

Time Out!

May I implore all to stay on the same civilized, polite, and intelligent track we have, with each person explaining their point of view, and addressing the others' with respect?

There really is no need (nor use) to call anyone names or to use threatening language in a dialogue as important as this. Showing emotion about an emotional issue may be warranted, but showing wisdom in discussing it is so much more productive.

I have met Programmer Craig in cyberspace many times, and I have found him enthusiastic and articulate, never abusive, even if some of his points of view differ from mine. The fact that he has enough of an interest in Iranians and Iranian.com is sufficient indication for me that he really cares about the issues at hand and is reaching out to hear from Iranians and to have a dialogue. We are all grown-up enough to endure some vigorous debate and intellectual exercise, I should hope.

Inviting each other to duels and using profanities is hardly the way to civilized discourse. Let's please continue with more restraint.

Anonymous-Patriot

I wonder if anyone knows this icon of redneck America...this "Craigy-Boy"?

There are people on Iranian.com who know who I am. But if you want to shoot me an e-mail so that I can verify who YOU are, maybe we can arrange a little pow-wow and get this worked out.

My e-mail is programmer.craig@gmail.com.

I'll be happy to "discuss" matters with you face to face :)

Q

The 1953 coup was planned and executed by the CIA from the same US embassy
that was the site of the hostage crisis.

So? Also, you fail to note that the US didn't actually DO anything in that 1953 "coup", other than offer the Shah advice. Offering advice is not illegal, Q.

If the 1979 hostage crisis, where 53 white men were held for 444
days and then released with no casualties makes Iran a "terrorist
nation", why wouldn't the 1953 coup make America a terrorist nation?

I don't ahve time to educate you, sorry. Read these two links:

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_...

//www.answers.com/topic/vienna-convention-on-...

As far as suicide bombers killing American marines that were
occupying their country, this was done by Hezbollah which is a native
Lebanese force.

a) Hezbollah is an Iranian proxy

b) the multi-national forces were Peacekeepers, which makes attacks on them criminal

And, really, this is only the tip of the iceberg for Iranian terrorism since 1979. To document every act of international terrorism commited by or sponsored by the Islamic republic since 1979, one would have to write a book. A thick one. I'm not going to debate this with you. There's nothing to debate. The evidence is clear and it's overwhelming.

Peace and Love, War is not the answer

Peace and Love, War is not the answer.
Peace and Love, War is not the answer.
Peace and Love, War is not the answer.
Peace and Love, War is not the answer.

Long live the friendship between Iran and USA

Long live the friendship between Iran and USA
Long live the friendship between Iran and USA
Long live the friendship between Iran and USA
Long live the friendship between Iran and USA

Long live Iran and the Iranian people

Long live Iran and the Iranian people
Long live Iran and the Iranian people
Long live Iran and the Iranian people
Long live Iran and the Iranian people
Long live Iran and the Iranian people
Long live Iran and the Iranian people
Long live Iran and the Iranian people
Long live Iran and the Iranian people
Long live Iran and the Iranian people

Craig: I can't believe this

Craig: I can't believe this idiot is threatning your life...This is so uncalled for...but how very typical of his kind.

Craig: I can't believe this

Craig: I can't believe this idiot is threatning your life...This is so uncalled for...but how very typical of his kind.

Prgrammer Craig

I wonder if anyone knows this icon of redneck America...this "Craigy-Boy"?

I have tangles with this one before and have met many like him. Basically they have a FOX News antenna stuck up their fat asses with rapid, fart-like grunting of Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity comes out of their every orifice.

Basically, I'd like to swing by and have a friendly chat with Craigy; so if anyone knows who Craigy-boy is, please disclose his identity to me.

Don't think for one second that I mean to harm this pretty boy. I just want to be sure he pays attention to his first grade textbooks so he learns the principles of spreading Judeo-Christian democracy by installing Mohammed Reza, Musharef, Mubarek, Abdullah, Hassan, Hussein, etc.

Didn't the original Mr. “dahhh”, AKA Bush-man say water boarding is not torture? I think Craigy-boy would enjoy being spread on the board and have a few Abu Gharib maneuvers done to his butt. If Craigy-Boy would listen, here’s what I’d say to the idiot:

You are right. Iranians need to apologize to you. We need to treat you with proper respect as you are American. Hope that you forgive me.
Just keep threatening the rest of the world with your bombs and bullets. Continue with starving the poor and investing in nukes. Deploy star wars and missile shields around the world to keep everyone under your thumb. Invade foreign lands and send your GI's to all continents to invade, attack, kill, mame, rape, conquer. Make sure you torture people and deny torture is torture. Keep insisting on how no one but you should have access to even the "knowledge" of using nuclear energy but keep making new nukes. Give nukes to your cronies around the world as another tool of intimidation. Make and sell chemical weapons and cluster bombs to Iraq to use on Iran. Then invade Iraq under the pretense that they have WMD's which you gave them in the first place. Give Israel the most advance form of cluster bomb to kill as many Lebanese civilians as there are. Vilify the Soviets for shooting down civilian airliners by mistake but turn around and shoot down innocent Iranians on purpose and blame it on the victims. Keep polluting the environment and deny that it hurts us. Keep promoting "democracy" but support tyrants like Musharef, Mubarek, Hasan, Abdullah, etc. At the same time, try your damnest to overthrow any other leader you disagree with like Chavez, Castro, Ahmadinejad, etc. Sometime, when it is profitable for you, sell weapons to genocidal maniacs around the world, use the proceeds to buy and import drugs into the US to make even more profits and use the proceeds to hire mercenaries to wage wars on people who want to stand up and be independent. once a year, look back proudly at your handi-work in Japan and Vietnam where you used both Nukes and Chemical weapons but got away from being tried as war criminals because you have more bombs than everyone else in the world combined. This is not about 2000 years ago Craigy-boy, this is about the ignorance and hypocrisy of your kind. But I am sorry I said it because in your White American eyes, I am less than human just like the other non-whites. So here it goes..."yes masa..you right!" Just remember, my words may be offensive but never like the genes you so proudly carry around!
don't do it (and again "we do, do it!" I think Craigy boy would enjoy a little bit of his own medecine.

Don't bomb Iran

Dear friends of oppressors and war mongers, (sickofiri, Not Anonymous, programmer Craig, etc)

Please do not bomb Iran. Instead find some hay for my donkey to munch on (photo on the left side).

Thank you,

Mola, Ghazvin

"teenage angst," ? To:

"teenage angst," ?

To: Craig
I'm sorry craig. This odious character does not know what he is talking about...he talks about peace and justice while sowing the seeds of hate and creating incitement to war execuses.

Craig: Q's facile arguments give us a rare insight into the minds of Islamists/communists mindset. Most IRGC and devout Basiji think this way. (more than 15% of the population)... And Mr. Kinser thinks we could trusts the Islamists in a diplomatic negotiation...LOL

Craig, maybe you SHOULD read History books

it's obvious you are disproportionately affected by what you have seen on American TV during your youth. As I said, you are not nuanced at all, yet expecting this from the opposite side. You should read history so that you understand other people's perspective as well.

The 1953 coup was planned and executed by the CIA from the same US embassy that was the site of the hostage crisis. You were not alive, and those who were didn't get any TV coverage about it in the US, like you did 25 years later. But those events hurt a lot Iranians. The US overthrew a democratic government and installed the dictatorship of the Shah.

No doubt the hostage situation was unpleasant. It must have been a traumatic experience for you as a teenager watching 53 hostages being held for 2 years and then all being released without anybody being hurt or killed. But let me ask you, can you seriously compare that to 25 years of a US-backed dictatorship where over 10 times that number of civilian Iranians were killed, jailed and tortured, their lives ruined and their families destroyed? All backed and supported by the United States, executed by CIA-trained SAVAK. Can you imagine how you would feel if it was your family and your country held "hostage" for 25 years? If there was a possiblity of this scenario being repeated again, would you take steps to prevent it? Be honest.

If the 1979 hostage crisis, where 53 white men were held for 444 days and then released with no casualties makes Iran a "terrorist nation", why wouldn't the 1953 coup make America a terrorist nation?

As far as suicide bombers killing American marines that were occupying their country, this was done by Hezbollah which is a native Lebanese force. If you know anything about the region, you would know that no Arab would do anything like this purely for the sake of some Persians 800 miles away. This was done because US and France were occupying the country, trying to enforce colonial era policies that have marginalized the shiite people of South Lebanon.

But, let us say that Iran was actually responsible for Lebanese attacking an army of foreign occupation in their own country because Iran supported Hezbollah. If that is the standard, then we must say that US is responsible for Iraqi invasion of Iran resulting in a ruinous war that killed over 700,000 Iranians, left many more maimed and scarred for life. At the time that Mr. Rumsfeld was shaking hands with Saddam Hussein, America was supplying Chemical Weapon ingredients to Iraq that he was using against Iranians against all international norms. Not only did US give him intelligence, money and weapons but American policy protected Saddam diplomatically and actively prolonged the war to hurt both sides and benefit Israel.

So, let's again, put 280 occupying Marine soldiers, against 700,000 Iranians, many civilians bombed to death in their own homes in Iran's large cities. And what about the 300 people who died when US shot down a civlian plane on a routine flight over the Persian Gulf. The people who died when US decided to intervene on the side of Iraq and destroy Iran's defensive naval structures in 1988? Do you think there's any contest here? Just count the bodies.

The Hezbollah action is self-servingly called terrorism by biased western media, even though it was done against armed soldiers. Yet, what the US has done to Iran is never called terrorism, even though many civilians died and internationally banned chemical weapons were used. Do you understand the hypocrisy of calling Iran a "terrorist nation" ?

With all respect to your "teenage angst," Craig, you have no case against Iran. US owes more to Iran by a long long shot. Any "nuanced" perspective of US-Iran relations would have to include these facts.

Once again, read the book. 

For Mr. Kinser's continued

For Mr. Kinser's continued education on Iran. Someone should translate this for him.
کسری ناجی: انتخاب احمدی نژاد تغيير رژيم بود، نه تغيير دولت

//www.radiofarda.com/Article/2008/02/19/f1_ka...

Nazy

Hi, thanks for the response. I understand what you are saying. I hope you are right about the sanctions, but I don't trust sanctions to accomplish much. Europe has a long history of violating their own sanctions, not to mention China and Russia who have very little interest in imposing real sanctions on Iran. Also, the nuclear issue brings up some serious time constraints. Iran is still producing fissile material, and Iran is still testing missiles in apparrent attempts to build ICBMs. That is the HARD part of a nuclear weapons program. Actually building a nuclear warhead is fairly easy. Sanctions have to not only work, they have to work soon. I'm not very optimistic, and I don't think theer are many in the US government who are either.

As far as diplomacy... even the feeble attempts the US has made to engage the IRI diplomatically have backfired in our faces, and made us look like fools. What do you think would be accomplished? Do you think the Iranian people would be empowered by seeing the US negotiating with the regime? Or would they be disheartened?

Q

How about you start being a little "nuanced" about your own view of the
world which seems to mirror Sean Hannity and Glen Beck.

Q, I don't know how old you are but I'm not basing my views of the Islamic Republic on history books. I was 15 years old when I saw my fellow Americans being paraded around in blindfolds with guns to their heads on television, by Iranian "students". I was 17 years old when they were set free. I was 19 years old when friends of mine were murdered by Hezbollah, in Beirut.

What exactly is
a "terrorist state", Craig?

Iran is. The IRI was born of terrorism.

Think about it for a second and while you
are at it, question all your other assumption which were almost
universally incorrect, or at the very least nothing close to "nuanced".

I don't need to think about it "for a second" - I've thought about it for most of my life. This guy who wrote this book looks to be quite a bit older than I am. I'm a bit puzzled how he can have the opinions he does. I'm suspicious of that. He can hardly have missed all teh acts of terrorism that the IRI and it's proxies have committed against the US since 1979. I could understand his opinions if he was a 20 year old college student. But he obviously isn't.

An Iranian general has

An Iranian general has declared that Iran's proxy, Hezbollah, will soon destroy the "Zionist regime." As is usual with Iranians, it is impossible to know whether Major General Mohammad Ali Jafari's remarks were a threat or a prediction. Ought Israel be entitled to regard statements such as these as threats? If not, why not?

The actions of Iran are the flip side of the boy who cried wolf. They are, instead, the wolf who cried boy.

Rather than one who loses credibility and succor because of over-reaction to unrealistic threats, the Iranians are like a wolf who keeps feinting at the boy, all the while denying that there is any ill intent.

The boy is justified if, one day in the woods, he finds that the wolf is unguarded and rids himself of the threat.

I see my posts have been

I see my posts have been deleted? Why? Too much truth for you people? This site has become a pathetic echo chamber for a special interest group; mainly the democratic left in the US and their Iranian reformers lackeys.

In this regard the anti-war

In this regard the anti-war lobby and the left as a whole must take a long hard look at itself and realize that the current path followed is playing directly into the hands of the neo-cons in Tehran and Washington. Search for a solutions and honest debates; do not appease different interest groups if your intention are honorable, ethical, and speak the truth. Truth will set everyone free althought, it might create resentments on both parties in the beginning. What we need here is mediator who understands both party's position (Iran and US; anti-war and pro-war both in Iran and US) and arguments and does not invaldiate them right off the bat.

The ONLY solution is WAR!

Iranians are the most incompetent in ruling their own country. The evidence is clear for the last 500 years. Its about time their country be disintegrated into many smallers countries and ruled by a bunchh of new lackeys.

To Pro Craig

Hi! Long time, no see! I hope you have been keeping well. I see that you are battling it out with other readers routinely these days. Whatever our views, I welcome and embrace the civilized exchange, so keep it up!

Craig, I just want to say that Tehran's actions and words frighten all of us. Beyond political posturing (and oh so much of what we do hear is just that, because when politicians are cornered, they resort to bold rhetorics without actual backing), we all fear that there might be truth to the provocative words. That is a real fear for all of us, pro and against military action on Iran. Some Iranian-Americans who love Iran, wish no harm done to the people of Iran. In this way of thinking, any action that might jeopardize a single Iranian's life cannot be condoned in good conscience, no matter what the action's goal and aim is. So, caught between fearing the recklessness of those in charge in Tehran and the recklessness of those in charge in Washington, a responsible position seems to be opposition to military action against Iran, as opinions can be voiced and heard in the US, but unfortunately not in Iran.

Through economic sanctions, which despite Tehran's fake bravado, are really working, and an effort to encourage both sides to negotiate, I truly believe a better alternative than military action does exist. It may not be optimum initially, but it will be over the longer haul.

Craig, we do live in the 21st century. Bloody revolutions and wars and losses of life may have been inevitable during earlier historical events, where a demand for change was present. I believe the time for bloody revolutions and use of war and force to be over. They do happen, unfortunately, but each time they do, very little is accomplished and true democracy and freedom remains illusive.

I believe enlightenment, literacy, and information to be the new direction for change in this century. If US and Iran do begin a diplomatic dialogue, so much of the rhetoric thus far used to contain and control and intimidate the people of Iran will become moot. The real dialogues, the real road to enlightenment and freedom for people of Iran will start when their leaders are devoid of excuses to keep the country isolated. The way to do that is through peace, not war. That's what I think.

Craig...

Anything seem a little funny to you right here?

1. I hope his treatement of Mossadeq and Ajax was more nuanced and less one sided than his treatment of current events.

2. Iran is a terrorist state and we cannot be seen "negotiating" with terrorists.

How about you start being a little "nuanced" about your own view of the world which seems to mirror Sean Hannity and Glen Beck. What exactly is a "terrorist state", Craig? Think about it for a second and while you are at it, question all your other assumption which were almost universally incorrect, or at the very least nothing close to "nuanced".

History should be evaluated based on facts and Kinzer is experienced and articulate enough to lay them out objectively. Read the book, you could learn a lot. 

Personal attacks against the author only cheapens your own argument.

Stop hating Iranian nation you lovers of Israel

Israeli Lobby is hard at work at Iranian website. Why dont you move to Israel and fight there. Leave Americans alone with your evil plans. You wont stop because you feed on your hate.