Babak's Story

"I want to help her leave her husband, so that the two of us can be together"


Babak's Story
by Nazy Kaviani

From the "Kissing All The Frogs" Series*

Maryam loved Babak and Azita. They were her best friends in the world. Babak had been her first friend in the US, when she had first arrived from Iran. She and Babak had gone through college together, had helped each other through some rough time, and had celebrated each other’s weddings. They had also helped each other through their divorces. They could talk about anything and everything, politics and arts and gossip, and they never grew tired of each other’s company. Luckily for both of them, the men and women who had entered each of their lives seldom felt threatened by their deep friendship. Maryam was so happy to see Babak’s life brighten up when Azita entered it. Mature adults and professionals, lovely and compatible together, they were a joy to watch and to have around. Maryam was so happy Babak had finally found the true love of his life, a woman who could keep up with him and present excitement for him. Over the past five years, Maryam had seen them meet, fall in love, date, and finally move in together three years ago. Babak had quit his job two years ago to start a new business with his partner, Homayoon. By all accounts and evidence, it seemed like their business was thriving and doing well.

Maryam hadn’t seen Babak in three months. Yes, she had seen him, but not really. She hadn’t been able to talk to Babak. He worked long hours quite a distance from where she lived, and seemed to keep really long hours at work. The few times she had seen her friend had been at busy and noisy events, never having a chance to chat. Their smaller gatherings were all missed by a working Babak, and were only attended by sweet Azita who always told Maryam how much she missed doing things with Babak, and how much she hoped for the business to reach a point where Babak could have a replacement some of the time, so that they could go back to their lives, taking trips and sleeping in on the weekends again.

That night when Maryam finally saw Babak at a gathering with other friends, she couldn’t resist telling him off for having ignored her for three months!

“Bah Bah, Bi Marefat! Where have you been?!! I miss you so much!” Babak looked so tired, so haggard. He was sporting a short beard which made him look gaunt and older all of a sudden. And what was that look in his eyes? Maryam knew instinctively that her friend wasn’t happy. What was it? The business? The economy? She tried to cajole him into a discussion: “The whole world has changed since the last time I saw you! I have missed talking to you about it! You never return my phone calls, either! What’s up with ya?” Babak reached for Maryam’s arm and said: “Hey, how about a cigarette?” Maryam obliged and grabbing her purse, the two of them stepped into their friends’ balcony and shut the sliding glass doors behind them.

Babak wasn’t saying anything, so Maryam went on complaining about his having ignored her for weeks. She was about to continue teasing him mercilessly when she took note of her friend’s facial expression again and knew this time with certainty that something was really wrong. So, she said: “Babak, are you O.K.?” Babak said: “No, I’m not O.K.” Maryam said: “What’s wrong? What is it? You know you can tell me anything.” Babak said: “I’m not so sure of that! There are things I have been wanting to tell you, but I couldn’t. I didn’t think you would take them very well.” Maryam said: “Since when?! You know we have always been able to talk. Just tell me what it is. Maybe I can help you.” Babak said: “No one can help me. I’m in a mess.” Maryam said: “Is it your business? Your loans? Your health? What is it, you’re killing me!” Babak said: “No. It’s none of those.” And before the silence that fell was further extended, he said: “I love someone else.”

Maryam was speechless. Through the glass door she could see their friends gathering around the dining table, talking and laughing. She could see sweet Azita, with her gorgeous hair and exquisite face surrounded by others. She said: “How long has this been going on?” Babak said “Six months.” Maryam said: “Does Azita know?” Babak said: “No. She doesn’t know. But I want to tell her. Soon.” Maryam’s heart was racing. She said: “No, don’t rush it! Wait! Who is this other woman? I mean it doesn’t matter who she is. What I mean is does this other woman know that you love her? I mean are you guys having an affair, or is it just an interest, an infatuation, something in your head?” Babak said: “It’s past all those stages.” Maryam said: “Are you sleeping with her?” And Babak shook his head, yes. Maryam said: “So, that’s it? You want to leave Azita for this other woman? You love her, Man! And she loves you! You guys have been through so much together for five years! You guys are so perfect together! In all the time I have known you, you never seemed happier than the years you have been with Azita. Why would you want to ruin all that?” Babak wasn’t saying anything. Just standing there, taking deep drags on his second cigarette, and looking miserable. Maryam said: “So, have you already discussed this with the other woman? I mean have you guys planned it so you would leave Azita and the two of you would get together? I guess I’m trying to find out whether this is ‘final?’” Babak said: “We can’t do anything yet.” Maryam said: “Oh really?!! It sounds like you have already accomplished a lot! What do you mean “we can’t do anything yet?” As Maryam was saying this, she was hoping that the situation wasn’t really concrete, that this was just a passing affair, and that Babak wasn’t going to take any further steps to ruin his life with Azita. Babak said: “She can’t join me yet. She is married.”

Maryam’s face was burning. Her palms were sweaty, and her heart was beating too fast. She said: “Babak, what’s wrong with you, Man? You are in a long-term relationship with one of the nicest people I have ever known, and you have to ruin it by having an affair with a married woman!? Jeez, talk about complicating your life! Obviously, the two of you must have been unhappy in your relationships or why would you even contemplate having affairs which would hurt so many people in the process? But couldn’t you each seek some couples counseling and try to sort things out with your partners? It just seems like such a lot of heartache my friend.”

Babak said: “Are you going to preach or are you going to help me? I love Azita. I don’t want to hurt her. I just don’t love her as my lover anymore. I love another woman. I want to help her leave her husband, so that the two of us can be together. But things are really messy, really complicated. I am risking so much for this. I need help.” Maryam said: “Risk? What risk? Do you mean hurting Azita’s feelings? I think you’re past that even if she doesn’t know it yet.” Babak said: “Well, no, I was talking about losing my business.” Maryam said: “Losing your business? How? You think Azita will come after your money? Why would you even be thinking that right now? She doesn’t know anything and her whole world will be coming to an end soon. And you’re thinking about your business?” Babak said: “I don’t think Azita will harm me that way.” Maryam said: “But you said you’re worried for your business.” Babak took a deep sigh and said: “The woman I love, the one I want to marry, is my partner's wife.”

The sliding doors opened to deliver two other smokers into the cool evening on the balcony. The silence was deafening.

* Names, places, and other identifying attributes of this series' characters are made-up and a work of fiction. The relationship and the dilemma at the heart of each story is true and that's all that is true.

Part [1], Part [2], Part [3], Part [4], Part [5], Part [6], Part [7], Part [8], Part [9], Part [10]



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Nazy Kaviani

Dear Iranianblogger

by Nazy Kaviani on

I am familiar with your tale through experience.

The only good news I have for you is that in time you will not only know that you weren't stupid, you will develop a lot of respect and appreciation for yourself for having given your marriage your best shot, trying everything and anything, and that its failure was not your doing, because it takes two to make a relationship a success.

In my opinion people who make good couples are those who each work hard on the many aspects of their relationship's well-being, development, and betterment. Those couples will find a wonderful favorable wind under their wings, helping them to fly high and go far. When only one bird is doing the flying for two, sooner or later the weight and the effort will become wearing and exhausting and the flight ends sooner or later.

I wish you happiness and joy always.


iranianblogger I don't know

by Ajab Rajab (not verified) on

iranianblogger I don't know your story and you don't want to discuss what may be private for you. It seems that you are on the right track and have made the right choices.

It is not right to keep the marriage at all costs. Especially when we are talking about one party being hard headed about how things should be done. My way or highway so to speak. It is not hard to say highway!


Ajab Rajab

by iranianblogger (not verified) on

I trusted that he would show responsibility toward his children and get off his ass and work in order to build a better future for his kids. You're correct, I think he trusted that I would take care of him forever because I probably came across stupid and naive. More reason to divorce because that translates to he didn't even respect me and thought I'm a fool.



by Anonymous Mnonymous (not verified) on

Hire a detective then. That's what I was trying to say.


American Wife


by American Wife on

"Women think of men as being promiscuous, unfaithful, lying, cheating dogs"


Please explain

by Anonymous Mnonymous (not verified) on

I’m interested to know about that 1% that you agree with.

American Wife


by American Wife on

I agree with the first paragraph.  I'm sorry to say that is probably IS because a woman can accept a friendship only whereas a man is ultimately too weak to know the difference between a friend and a lay and values one over the other.

I don't think I agree with the rest.  No... I'm quite sure I don't agree with 99% of the second paragraph. 


It's not mine theory

by Anonymous Mnonymous (not verified) on

{Women instinctively know that most men have little power when it comes to sexual intercourse in male and female relationships. Women know that if a platonic relationship exists between a male and a female, ninety percent of the time it is a platonic relationship because the woman does not want to have sex with the man instead of visa versa. Most women do not feel that men are psychologically or biologically capable of resisting another woman's sexual prowess because of their undying love, loyalty and respect for their committed relationship with them. If a man does not engage in a sexual relationship with a woman who is drop dead gorgeous, most women believe that it is because the other woman was in control of the outcome of the type of relationship. Women intuitively know that most heterosexual males find extraordinary beautiful women sexually irresistible and if that extraordinary beautiful women wanted her man, he would be hers for the taking.

Women are so busy competing with each other for male attention that they do not have the psychological, intellectual or emotional insight to change the social climate that is causing them to suffer from low-self esteem. Women think of men as being promiscuous, unfaithful, lying, cheating dogs. But what most women need to come to grips with and understand is that research shows that a man is most likely to have a sexual affair with a woman's best friend, relative or neighbor… a woman whom she trusts, loves and respects. One of the reasons that men who cheat are so successful at it is because women allow them to because they are in competition with each other.}

Cassandra George Sturges, doctorate degree in psychology


Iranian Blogger if he was

by Ajab Rajab (not verified) on

Iranian Blogger if he was living in comfort courtesy of you, what did you trust him with to do that he failed?

Not knowing anything else other than what you've said he could have trusted you to keep him comfortable forever.


On the subject of trust

by Iranian Blogger (not verified) on

Trust is key to any relationship. But you only know if someone is truly trustworthy, when there is a problem and not when everything is fine and dandy.

I trusted my husband in every aspect and was very honest and open with him but I was taken by surprise when I decided to divorce him. No drama involved, only the fact that we don't see eye to eye on where we want to be in life and the fact that he is irresponsible.

Well, that person whom I credited with trust as his best feature turned out to not be so trustworthy. When it came to finances, out went the trust and equity and I saw his true face. Actually, if there was any chance of reconciliation it all went away when I saw that side of him which never came out when he was living in comfort (courtesy of me).

I've learned my lesson. Be honest but don't trust anyone. At the end of the day everyone is looking after their own best interest even if it's at the cost of someone else.

American Wife

please explain your theory

by American Wife on

Men who DO have female friends are more likely than not to cheat, and most women know this intuitively.

Just how did you arrive at this conclusion? 


Mast eating men

by Ajab Rajab (not verified) on

Nazy define "mast eating men"! In these articles we are generally talking about average Joe and not the sophisticated upper class who are on another level. Their divorce settlements takes care of themselves and not our worry.

You know Bill Engvall, Jeff Foxworthy's friend in his comedy tours? They had an end of show ritual called "I believe" and they start by saying "I believe ...." and said what they believed.

In one case Bill said; "I believe there should be an application process for wearing a thong!"

Now back to our mast eating men, do you believe these men are really "that good" in picking up women?! Do you really?!

Women who pass the "application process" (mentioned above) don't bother themselves with mast eating men. They have bigger fish to fry.

Women who do NOT pass the "application process" find these mast eating men appealing! Don't ask me why. The mast eating man is not hard to please so even those who "fail" their application will eventually find another way to apply!

So to make a long story short and answer your question, yes it is not hard to seduce a mast eating man. The question really is what do these women want with a mast eating man?

Lastly not all mast eating men are the same. For women who are planning to seduce a mast eating man with a snap of their thong be weary of rejection and another huge blow to your already low self-esteem! Some mast eating men are happy "just" eating a mast. Don't be fooled by the smirk on their face, it is just a reaction to mast!


Great piece on Divorce.

by KouroshS (not verified) on

Marhaba Nazzy.

You wrote a very beatiful piece on divorce and on how it inflicts the real damage, on both parties. I, unfortunately, been witness to a few of them, marriages that no one would have ever thought wind up in a divorce.
I think a couple owe themselves and each other a good and introspective look, in order to know their weaknesses and strenghts, in order to prevent such horrible outcome. I belive that a strong frienship based on honesty and truthfulness, affects marriage in many positive and meaningful ways.

My best friend, whom i have known for 19 years, always credits his success in marriage to the unique nature of his frienship with his wife and how that is the most important ingridient in their marriage and on various occasions, I witnessed that.

NOthing is more beautiful than a couple's full trust for each other and NOT ever wanting to betray that trust.

I appreciate your understanding of that strange encounter with ajab rajab earlier today. I Hope that one day people would refrain from taking a condescending approach regarding different comments, and really come here with an open mind, and ready to learn and experience new ideas.


“When Harry Met Sally”

by Anonymous Mnonymous (not verified) on

For those of you who don’t know, “When Harry Met Sally” was a romantic comedy movie that was released in 1989 and won several awards including an Oscar for Best Writing, Screenplay Written Directly for the Screen in 1990. Here is a brief summary of the plot: [Harry and Sally meet when she gives him a ride to New York after they both graduate from the University of Chicago. The film jumps through their lives as they both search for love, but fail, bumping into each other time and time again. Finally a close FRIENDSHIP blooms between them, and they both like having a FRIEND OF THE OPPOSITE SEX. But then they are confronted with the problem: "Can a man and a woman be friends, without sex getting in the way?"] The movie had several unforgettable lines including one by Harry: “men and women can't be friends because the sex part always gets in the way.” Of course as most romantic movies at the end they get married and live together happily ever after.

I don’t think Anita ever watched that movie, otherwise, for one thing, she would have known, or least contemplated, that Babak and Maryam were best friends and sooner or later they had to deal with “the sex part” that “always gets in the way.” That was her FIRST mistake. Men who DO have female friends are more likely than not to cheat, and most women know this intuitively. Don’t blame me, I’m not the inventor of the sex parts and I did not write the operator’s manual for it, but I know if I had a partner in life that had opposite gender friends I would definitely hire a detective, and, in case of Azita, along the way I would discover that he is having an affair with his business partner’s wife.

In my opinion, if you don’t want to be cheated start by getting into a legal contract that is written for a monogamous relationship. That will not eliminate cheating but at least is a good beginning. There are all kinds of other contracts out there for the taking: there is “We Sealed It by a Kiss” contract, “We Declared Our Love for Each Other” contract, “We Were Born to Be Together”, “We Will Get Married Next Year”, “We Will Get Married When Mom and Pop Get Their Visas”,…you name it, there is contract for it. There is a contract for every sucker.

Nazy Kaviani

Dear Kourosh:

by Nazy Kaviani on

I am with you on why it's important for people to really try to keep and fix long-standing relationshps, if they can. And "if they can" is the operative phrase here. Couples suffer from so much loss when they breakup after a long relationship, be it a marriage or a monogomous commitment. They lose things which are easy to spot and things which aren't so visible in the process. Financial loss, for example, is one that most people see most prominently in a couple's breakup. Things get divvied up and standards of life slip for both partners.

But that isn't all that is lost. Small comforts and conveniences are lost, friends and acquaintances are lost, memories and mementoes are lost, and people's self confidence is lost, at least for a while. Well, we aren't talking about divorce and breakup here, so I'll stop there. But here's a piece I wrote on the subject a while back. Time it was and what a time it was, it was...

Thank you so much for your continued participation in a dialogue I value greatly. I understand every single word you and Rajab say!

Nazy Kaviani

Dear Rajab:

by Nazy Kaviani on

Not so fast my clever friend! Though I'm with you on the lose/lose situation for all involved in an affair, are you really saying that an affair is only the result of a woman seducing a committed man who is just sitting there having his maast?!! You say:

" Women who seduce mast eating men want something. What do they want? Why do they bother with mast eating men?! It is not "just sex" because these mast eating men are NOT Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt! Usually like Monica they want something in return. Mast eating men, well they are just eating mast and don't know any better! If a woman wants a mast eating man, who is he to argue?!"

Discounting or eliminating the man's responsibility just beause a vixen is coming at him with huge boobs, sufficiently sexy lingerie and the right sexual moves is so pathetic Rajab! Is it really true? Please say it isn't so!


Why Get Married?

by t (not verified) on

Dear Nazy:

In response to your question, "why all the insistence on getting married in a society where people can live with anyone they love, have legitimate sexual relations, and have a family witout marriage?"

In theory I agree with you. But practically speaking, and I speak based on my own experience and circumstances, if we were living in the greater Western society we could do so. But, if we have ties to the Iranian community and wish to socialize with the Iranian community, it is the same as if we were living in Iran and need to consider the Iranian norms in making such decisions.

Just look at some of the comments people have made about "Azita" and her choice to live with the guy. They think she is stupid, naive, being taken for a ride, deserves what is coming to her, etc...

Iranian parents could care less that their child is in love or marrying for love as long as the guy fits the bill (degree, family, money (or potential income) and they can show him off to their friends and say "look how well my daughter married." Because how well she marries determines her worth. Hence, you see the 42 year old MD marry the 22 girl. Do you think if the guy held a BS in poli-sci the parents would be happy marrying their daughter off to him.

My point was there may be more stories like the one you told because within the Iranian society at first we marry to make our parents and people around us happy and when we come to a certain age we realize that without love life is incomplete, and so we either divorce or start an affair. Either way, one is getting out of a meaningless relationship. True, it is sad when there are kids involved but then what kind of role models will those parents serve. One needs to break the cycle of deception.

Zan Amrikai

Love and Marriage, go together like a horse and carriage

by Zan Amrikai on

Ajab Rajab, Matt Foley called me and said he is moving in with you because he is tired of living in a van down by the river!   (LOL about your comment.)

As an American woman, born and raised in the US, but married to an Iranian for decades, and with mostly American women as my closest friends, I can safely say that I can speak for most women I've ever known.  For Americans, marriage is typically based on romance.  Perhaps more so than an Iranian marriage, if we are talking about khastegari as the reason for the marriage.  After all, khastegari cannot truly be much more than a sudden crush because the parties involved don't even know each other. Americans will typically be going together for months if not years before they finally tie the knot.  Usually a marriage occurs because of romance, and that starry-eyed notion that nothing will ever interfere with LOVE. 

Just as you said, Nazy, all the hoopla surrounding the wedding leaves little energy for the actual meat of the marriage.  People spend RIDICULOUS amounts of money on weddings and receptions, only to divorce two years later.  Often, they even go into debt for this fiasco.  But as for premarital counseling or deep discussion about true compatibility when it comes to things like having children, how to raise children, what to do about religion, extended families, and so on, most couples only give this a cursory nod.  They are so certain that they will never have any significant head butting that they neglect vital conversations or gloss over them.

The other thing that happens, I think, is that people have a very unrealistic idea of what marriage is.  They think that if it takes effort, it must be no good.  So a big argument happens or they find--how utterly shocking!--that there are other fish in the sea to whom they are attracted, and they believe they married the wrong person and the only remedy is divorce.

As a divorced woman myself, I am glad to be divorced.  Well, glad in the sense that the marriaged I was in was very bad and it's better to be out of it.  It would have been great to have been in a good marriage; I would not have divorced, and as you know, Nazy, I gave that marriage the majority of my life so far, as did you yours.

OK I am damn tired. I am going to draw a bath and think about love without marriage! ha!


Out of respect for nazzy khanoom........

by KouroshS (not verified) on

Yeah, okay. whatever rocks your boat.


Now this one is coherent!

by Ajab Rajab (not verified) on

Now this one is coherent! Perhaps that's what you meant. Perhaps :-)


That is Okay.

by Kouroshs (not verified) on

Ajab rajab.

Now you know how it feels to read your comments.

American Wife

very very good start

by American Wife on

The build-up to the climatic end was very good... fully fleshed out main characters.  Information about the external characters is irrelevant at this point.  The story would have no direction if too much information was given on their personalities.  Their story will come in due time.

Anon-mynon... what in the WORLD does having a female best friend have to do with anything??????  You are so off track, my friend.  I seriously don't understand your whole rant about living together versus marriage.  As IF it's her fault that he's has cheated?  I'll never ever get over that attitude from some men.  No one "makes" you do anything.  If you cheat, it's your fault, pure and simple.  Living together is just as much of a commitment as marriage to some people.  It's naive to suggest otherwise or to denigrate the relationship by implying otherwise.


Kourosh your comment

by Ajab Rajab (not verified) on

Kourosh your comment addressed to me is not coherent and not sure what you are trying to say. I just see a lot of words slapped together!


Nazzy khanoom. I think many

by KouroshS (not verified) on

Nazzy khanoom.

I think many people are in your shoes and get excited when they hear such news.It is unfortunately true that many of them don't show the required committment or take a pass after a while, But that is precisely why they need to have spent more time getting to know each other in a real sense.

To answer your question, That is if i can, You are not cruel to think that since lotta of marriages do indeed take place because of money and name. Despite all the independence and freedom in life style that you mentioned, Putting great emphasis on marriage gives the relationship a whole new proportion, something more valuabel that you can not have while in it prior to that.
To me it means that you take your committment more responsibly, while before, you were just pleased and felt good that You are in a serious relationship, without no real obligations. Don't get me wrong, i don't mean to use the term "obligation" to imply that marriage places a chain around your neck, But it gives more meaning to everything. (if i come across as someone who has been down that road many times, you must forgive me: it is a total coincidence).

It is absolutely heart-breaking to witness Infidelities, and other acts that eventually may take a toll on a marriage. To prevent that from happening, a couple needs a great bond and togetherness. I think there is more reason to work for a solution towards saving a marriage, than to save a long term relationship, for in the latter case, It is rather easier to let things fall apart.
Bottom line it is a way to secure that committment and knowing that what you and your partner have is worth cherishing and making sacrifices for.

and... that was my 2 gheran.


To Ajab rajab

by KouroshS (not verified) on

You are right. Nothing makes more sense than having independence and maturiy of mind to know, as close as one can get to reality, what one wants in a relationship with a particular person, or even having a relationship is a good thing or should the person continue to live on his/ her own life.

Living together is not just "practice" and BS. it is a necessity EVEN though the numbers might not add up. You are really comparing apples and oranges ihere. When you say" look around you" you are generally referring to the fact that In this day and age, many marriages end up in divorce, You are notspecifically addressing the issue, as in How many of those who actually lived together,for a long enough time Did end up going their separate ways.Then if that number is not significant enough, you have every right to make the conclusion you have made.
Living in one's own space, and Living apart IS already what many couples are doing! it is called dating. I wonder
How you can know that your feelings are real and the two of you have a future together, if you continue the sleep overs, and all the routine dating , for months and years on end? How can you know you have real feelings if you don;'t get the chance to see the person, upclose, on a day to day basis, his or her real self in the everyday life?


Marriage vs Living together

by Ajab Rajab (not verified) on

Nazy I believe times have changed enough that how one chooses to live is his/her business. Whatever works for you. So looking for marriage or just living together is a personal choice. The result is important.

I believe before you decide if you want a partner in your life you should become independent. You should be able to live on your own and be happy with it. Don't say I hate being along and it is boring and I need someone and so on. You don't need anyone, the only one you need is you. You'll learn this one way or another, sooner or later. The sooner the better.

If you are independent then once you realize this relationship is not working you can pick up where you left off and move on and land on your feet. If you are not independent you'll become a mess.

Now does that mean if you are not independent you should ask for marriage? Sure. Is anyone biting?! Is anyone willing to marry a woman who "claims" she is not independent? Probably but not too likely.

One thing I know. When a couple says they are living together as "practice" and get to know each other, that is complete BS! Look around you, of all the people who said this how many ended up getting married? Of those who ended up getting married how many ended up in divorces? See we've seen many examples and we can tell the numbers don't add up.

If you want to "practice", practice living apart but see each other. Live in your quarters (alone or with family or roomate) and sleep over. "Practice" this way until you decide to get married or become "roomates". I think it is ok to live as roomates and save money. But don't say it is something else until such time and you can find a "reason" to get married. There can be plenty of reasons.

One thing is for sure the level of commitment is vastly different. So don't say they were as close as they can get to marriage. It is not "close" :-) You can pick up and leave at a moment's notice. At most you'll wait till your yearly lease is over and you're out of it!

Also, when people talk so much about something, about being self-righteous they are usually the opposite. Look at some public affairs:

This IL guy was a vocal advocate of corruption and won on a platform of anti-corruption, he ended up being the father of all corruptions.

Clarence Thomas the Justice of Supreme court, he was in charge of fighting sexual harrassment, he ended up being poster child for sexual harrassers.

NY's Govt was fighting gangs and prostitution rings, he ended up being addicted to prostitues.

Larry Craig voted in Senate against gay rights, he ended up having sex with gays in men's rooms.

That FL congressman was in charge of fighting child expolitations he ended up sending improper sexual emails to children.

Last but not least, the late Henry Hyde who led the Clinton impeachment sex scandals ended up fessing up to "youthful" indiscretion and other politicians involved in impeachment leadership such as 2 House leades who ended up having affairs and children out of wedlock and lying about it under oath!

Sorry if these examples and my comment got too long but I just wanted to say don't look at absolutes and don't be holier than Pope. Look at the options that you have and don't be too picky or stuck on one issue. Live normally and let others live as they want. Just remember the consequences of the choices you make. These choices will shape your life. The higher you go the larger and more damaging the fall.


Seducing mast eating men!

by Ajab Rajab (not verified) on

I'll write another comment about marriage and living together.

Nazy I remember during Bush's first campaign back in 2000 someone asked him what would he do if a young woman (Intern) snaps her thong at him and winks and stuff. He said he'd fire her and also ask her Manager to recommend a mental health evaluation!

Now remember Bush was coked up out of his mind back in his days and partied all the time with strippers and all (in Texas's infamous strip clubs on every corner) until he got married, so he is not hungry like many other men in this respect.

I think having an affair is like borrowing when you don't have the means to pay it back. Like many who are now stuck in 2 or 3 mortgages because they wanted to live lavishly and now are screwed and screwing the rest of us along with them!

When you get into an affair you loose a part of yourself. The more you get involved the more you are gonna loose and eventually you'll loose it all, the spouse, the lover, the friends, the house, the car and all the other crap you paid for. You'll end up sleeping in a van down by the river!

Women who seduce mast eating men want something. What do they want? Why do they bother with mast eating men?! It is not "just sex" because these mast eating men are NOT Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt!

Usually like Monica they want something in return. Mast eating men, well they are just eating mast and don't know any better! If a woman wants a mast eating man, who is he to argue?!

So this is a loose loose situation and if you think borrowing money is having free money, you might as well jump into an affair too! They are the same. Once you are drowning you can drown in any depth of water! right?!

You can always loose "more". Keep add it and pile on and you'll "pay" more. So take your pick; it IS your choice.

Nazy Kaviani

Dear Kourosh

by Nazy Kaviani on

You are making me think hard about this one! In fact, I was married most of my adult life and to a large degree I don't have a problem with the institution of marriage. I get so happy when I hear a wedding is happening around me. I love knowing that two people who know what they're doing want to celebrate their union and I get excited looking at their wedding gowns and rings, and attending a wedding has always been a special treat for me. But do I think marriage is good for everybody? No, I don't.

I see people getting so excited about "proposing" and "getting proposed" to get married. I see them making huge fusses over the ring, the reception, the rehearsal, the gown, and the whole production of the wedding. I don't see many of those people pay as much attention to what a marriage/commitment really is. I don't see many of them making sacrifices and devotions for maintaining that commitment which sadly, in too many cases will lead to a divorce, a messy and cruel process.

I hear your thought that people in the US get married for more or less the same reasons as people do in Iran, but this is the part with which I disagree! See, in Iran, people live with their parents until they get married, simple as that! So, if someone wants to live independently in Iran, there is no socially acceptable way for doing this, but in the US, almost everybody past a certain age moves out of their parents' house and lives independently, free to do as he or she pleases. In Iran, even though unmarried people increasingly have sexual relations, since it is not an acknowledged and respected norm, the sexually active ones do it very privately and secretly, and the celibate ones wait to get married to have sex. This is not the norm in the US. In Iran, two people cannot move in and live together freely, but this is a very normal thing to do in the US. In Iran, two people who love each other and have sexual relations cannot have a family before they get married or the consequences for their children who are considered illegitimate will be grave. In the US, children are born out of committed, non-marrige relationships all the time and nobody persecutes them for that.

I ask the question again, then. In the US, where people who love each other can live together and have a family, why the big deal over marriage? Is it cruel of me to think that it's mostly because of names, assets, and taxes?


Marry me!

by kouroshS (not verified) on

Nazzy khanoom

Interesting that you should pose this question:). One only needs to look at couples who have been together for ages and just cringe at hearing the word, marriage.
I think their rationale for insisting upon marriage is pretty much the same as for us in iran, Mainly based on a family tradition, their religion, and the above-mentioned list of desires.
It gives their committment a sense of legitimacy and that now they ought to feel more responsible toward each others's welfare and well-being... I hope i am making sense.
As i wrote To The Mrs., Evenn when you consider yourself in a fully committed relationship and everything is totally legitimate, there really is no motivation to take things to the next step, there are no plans, if the neither party is marriage-minded
It is like floating endlessly and aimlessly in space! LoL.

Nazy Kaviani

Dear t

by Nazy Kaviani on

Though I have no social statistics pro or con your assertion, just from personal knowledge and experience, I believe your statement to be a gross over-generalization. In fact Iranians are mostly respectful of family and marriages and I doubt statistics of adultery among them to come anywhere near that of other countries. In addition to religious values which strongly prohibit and punish adultery, our social norms are not in acceptance of the phenomenon, treating people involved in adultery as outcasts who will have a hard time living peacefully in the society.

As a result, the subject of adultery as any other taboo subject is of interest to Iranians when they have a chance to discuss it. That's what you are seeing here.

As for marrying for money or last name, I have a question which I would love to ask you. In Iran and other traditional and religious countries, marriage is a matter of course. Other than for love, people get married to leave their parents' homes. They get married to find independence, legitimate access to sex, and the basis upon which they can build their own families. My question to you is this: In the US and other western countries, where people can live with anyone they love, have legitimate sexual relations, and have a family witout marriage, why all the insistence on getting married? Considering the alarming rate of divorce, the whole exercise seems futile to me. Could it be for money and last name?

Thank you for your question and I look forward to hearing from you.