GAZA

HYPROCRISY

continues on this site. those who start personal insinuations and then shout with outrage when someone catches them. and always trusting the moderators to watch their back. but the truth is finally coming out and those hyprocrites will be seen for who they are.

kouroush. YOU might say it's final but attacks continue all the time. no matter how often someone says they decry ANY needless loss of innocent life, they are still attacked if they try to reason with the anti-semitics.

Kourosh

Can you say for certain that the people of Gaza are standing united behind Hamas? And "legitimate or not"? By that same token, the IDF is supported, legitimate or not. You're playing semantics.

You're cherry-picking to serve your argument.

Yes, an ideology can be killed once and for all when there are no more propogators of that ideology.

Listen, you don't agree?.....then you don't agree. No one is forcing you to see it differently.

Thanks Anonymouss

The WWII statistics was very timely and relevant. Gives the right context and perspective. Thanks.

FYI

An estimate of the death toll after WWII --other sites give somewhat higher and lower numbers:

A total of 72-3 million died.

Civillian deaths: 47.5 million

Country by country included

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_...

یک نژادپرستی ، نژادپرستی دیگری را توجیه نمی‏کند

کوشش شکست خورده نازی‏ها در اجرای یک "راه‏حل نهایی" در گذشته، یک "راه‏حل نهایی" دیگر را توجیه نمی‏کند. این که فلسطینیان در کوره‏های آدم‏سوزی محو نشده‏اند و نخواهند شد، به معنی این نیست که کوردل‏ترین و متعصب‏ترین مدافعان موجودیت اسرائیل، و نه آن اقلیت روشن‏بین اسرائیلی رو به افزایشی که توسل به زور را راه حل نمی‏دانسته و نمی‏داند، از همان ابتدا موجودیت و بقاء اسرائیل را در گرو محو مردمی بنام مردم فلسطین نمی‏دانستند.

Read the entire article here:

//www.kar-online.com/beynolmelal/beynolmelal-zand-1.html

The blind Iranians who would

The blind Iranians who would rip their a** off by shouting at Mollahs killing under age kid in Iran (for a manslaughter. But they go quiet, when 100's of innocent Palestinian babies (toddlers, infants) are being exterminated shamelessy.

Wow! Now we redefine justice.I'm sure that these very idiots would be more ruthless than Mollahs if they get on power.

This is for sure a zionist style of racism and justice - Everthing for ME. I'm the chosen!

This is crimes against humanity. The same crimes that was inflicted on jewish victims in Europe some 70 years ago.

This rational that zionists

This rational that zionists use to attache innocent people of Gaza is EAXCTLY the same logic that Hitler used in exterminating Jewish folks in Europe.
He started by saying that Jews have monopolized and corrupted Europe's economy causing all the problems in Europe. Thefore, eradicating innocent jewish folks of some 5millions people will free up some 100millionn whaite race in.

Amazing, the same analogy we hear coming our of zionist propaganda machine.

very good video ayhab,

I wish reporters in the US had this kind of ethics. Israeli crimes are becoming hard to explain even for their official propagandists.

FYI. I responded to this article here:
//iranian.com/main/blog/q/bullies-are-del...

WOW!

WOW!
I didn't know News 4 UK had news peole like this reporter.
How fantastic to report the truth and challenge instead of "yes sir, thank you sir"!

SHAMELESS LIES again

//www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054009.html

[..The United Nations is claiming Israeli military
officers have admitted there was no Palestinian gunfire emanating from
inside an UNRWA school in Gaza which was shelled by an IDF tank.

Dozens of Palestinians were killed in the shelling.

UNRWA spokesman Chris Gunness told Haaretz yesterday that the army had conceded wrongdoing.

"In briefings senior [Israel Defense Forces] officers conducted for
foreign diplomats, they admitted the shelling to which IDF forces in
Jabalya were responding did not originate from the school," Gunness
said. "The IDF admitted in that briefing that the attack on the UN site
was unintentional."

He noted that all the footage released by the IDF of militants
firing from inside the school was from 2007 and not from the incident
itself.............]

capt_ayhab [-YT]

Oh, Kaveh.

Ok. ok. easy there cowboy..

"recognized" and "legitimacy" are in the eye of the beholder kaveh. why don't you tell that to the people of gaza, who apparantly are standing united behind these guys, legitimate or not!

Don't worry kaveh, and i am not saying this to sound as if i am in anyway a supporter of hammas, But with all your intelligence and Realness! you should know better than anyone that you can not Kill an ideology onece and for all. The last time a superpower made such a statement and made its intentions clear and declared war on an ideology, the results were nothing but being stuck in a pile of horse manure and still does not know, How to get out of the mess. So, Let us focus on what can be fixed and cured, instead of defending the defenseless.

Fashionable or not, ,Israel is way out of line and if there is anything wrong with singling themout then so be it. Regarding iranian's overbearing sense of criticism, yeah, your are right, I have a good case right here before my eyes ;-)

Participants

Please stay with the subject of this post.

For All Those Who Support Genocide...

These photos of of children of Gaza is for you. Perhaps this will shame you into stopping your nonsense:

//www.alalam.ir/site/manual%20gallery/current...

IRANdokht

You didn't lie about your religion? When did I ever suggest that you did? Are you suggesting that I did?

When did I say you lied about your family status? Are you suggesting I have lied about mine?

I take your last comment personally because it was aimed directly at me, so please don't even attempt to pretend otherwise. You don't stand a chance to fool anyone, but you run the risk of making yourself look very foolish.

If you are honestly interested in the truth as to who is the one doing the insulting (which I doubt), I refer you to your various posts of late where you respond to me or anyone else who disagrees with you in a condescending manner. You cannot handle even the slightest criticism of your position on a given issue, and you increasingly act as though you are the barometer of morality and righteousness on this website.

I'll let you in on a little secret: You're NOT.

You're not better human being than I or anyone else here, you're not entitled to more than anyone is here, and you're not superior to me or anyone else here, whether by virtue of your upbringing, education, religion, career, politics, or life experiences.

Get over yourself, dear.

Kaveh

I didn't lie about my religion, I did not lie about my family status, I did not lie about anything to qualify as "one of the biggest pretenders on this site" and most people that I have met on this site are very real also. 

But I find it interesting that you take my comment personally and reply with an insult.

why are you insulting everyone lately? whatever the comment, whatever the subject, you find a way to insult people you do not agree with. 

did I say something that hurt your feelings? 

IRANdokht

Did I stutter?

Funny how one of the biggest pretenders on this site feels compelled to make a comment.

say what?

Believe me, Kourosh. I am probably the most real person you will ever encounter on this site. 

I have met many people from this site who actually are who they say they are and most importantly they don't pretend to be something they're not and they'revery very REAL.

that was the funniest thing I have seen you write Kaveh!!

IRANdokht

Kourosh

In all honesty there's truly little, if anything to discuss on the issue of legitimacy, as Hamas has in fact been outlawed by the PNA since June 2007. The PNA is the only entity recognized as the governing body of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

That should answer the question of Hamas' legitimacy and/or sovereign powers once and for all.

I'm glad that Israel is out to destroy Hamas. My only hope is that the IDF obliterate those SOBs once and for all.

Believe me, Kourosh. I am probably the most real person you will ever encounter on this site. An the only reason Israel is being singled out is because it's fashionable. Iranians have this tendency to criticize everything and everyone else, while their own house and home is a pathetic wreck.

Kaveh I am not going to

Kaveh

I am not going to discuss with you whether hammas is a legitimate entity or a sovereign government. They came to power on the basis of the majority vote, . They are who they are, and they are in charge, because people want them to be, and as much as you and i may hate that fact, that imparts sovereignty on hammas.

Israel at the moment is doing all that is in her power to destroy hammas. That to me is more telling and revealing of a government's intention to destroy than simply calling for the destruction of an entity or a sovereign government, in the constitution or the charter.
Political assaniations are designed to foment instability and chaos, and they have not really been carried out by every country on the earth. It is usually those who execure such assasinations, who are interested in provoking conflicts that may lead to a full-fledged war.

We are not "active participators" in what?in Israeli political/democratic process? Ok. fine.MAy i remind you that we don't assume the same active role in the iranian process either, but would we be out of place, in assuming that persecution may not occur, when we read or hear about it every f##$ day? Are you for real?

I know that every government has its own set of bad apples and evil elements, but our focus is on israel and hammas, not other countries and the what goes on in their governments. we need to single out israel just for the sake of our discussion.

UN: Israel shelled house where civilians were held

//news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090109/ap_on_re_mi_ea...

JERUSALEM – A U.N. agency says Israeli troops evacuated Palestinian
civilians to a house in Gaza City, then shelled the building 24 hours
later.

The U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs says the shelling occurred Monday, two days after Israel began its ground offensive against Hamas militants in Gaza.

Based on eyewitness testimony,
the account added details Thursday to an incident previously reported
by The Associated Press and an Israeli human rights group.

The U.N. agency says 110 people were in the house and 30 people were killed, far higher figures than in other accounts.

It says the Red Cross was blocked from reaching the area until three days later.

The Israeli military had no comment on the report Friday.

capt_ayhab [-YT]

Kourosh

On what basis do you find that Hamas holds a legitimacy equal to that of any sovereign government?

If you deem Hamas as an equal, please name another sovereign government, (aside from the IR) that calls for the destruction of another country, be it Israel or any other country in either its charter, consititution or code of civil law.

Political assassinations have been carried out by virtually every country on the planet. The CIA, MI6, KGB, Staasi, Mossad, SAVAK, you name it. They have not been considered acts of war. That's a foreign policy issue of the respective governments and their inteligence services. And again, it must be reiterated that Hamas is not a sovereign entity, nor do they represent a sovereign entity.

I cannot be sure that similar persecution doesn't occur with Israeli intelligence any more than you can be sure that it does. Neither one of us are active participants, so we would both be talking out place if we were to assume any occurrence or non-occurrence.

Lastly, while I have never denied the fact that there are indeed evil elements within the Israeli government, it needs to be acknowledged that the Israeli government are not unique in that respect. Every government of every country, whether a democracy, a dictatorship, a monarchy, or whatever has such an element within their ranks. For Israel to be singled out in this regard doesn't lend support to your position.

Why Care??

Why do we care??? did they care when Iraq invaded Iran??
NO. so stop this. The only reason IR cares because they want to be able move there some day when the people of Iran kicks the mullah"s ass out, they have some place to go.. they learn from shah 's mistakes.

Kaveh

Such acts of terrorism are always retaliated by the government of Israel, so there, you have an eye for an eye, and on that basis, I don;t see them as acts of war that are necessarily brought about by one party, ie. hammas.
Are you forgetting that israel has so many of hammas's supporters in Their prisons?
How come that does not count as an act of war?
what about all the assassinations of their leaders at the hands of israelis? Any government in the world would look at it as a definite act of war.

How can you be sure that the same type of persecution does not occur with israeli intelligence? Do we really know what happens to all protestors? is there not at least a slight chance that some of them may be charged and accused as being spies for hammas and hazbollah? You do know that a prime minister lost his life, based on a desire by some radicals, to never have peace with the palestinians, Don't you?
So I guess you should Think more about that part of your argument where you acknowledge the existence of evil elements in the Gov. of Israel.

Exactly Kaveh

Thanks again for taking the time to argue solidly here.

Vatican calls Gaza " Concentration camp"

ROME, Jan. 8 (UPI) -- A Vatican
remark likening Gaza to a "big concentration camp" has infuriated
Israelis, possibly jeopardizing Pope Benedict XVI's Israel visit, officials said.

The offending statement came from Cardinal Renato Martino,
head of the Vatican Council for Justice and Peace, echoing a call by
the pope for an end to the bloodshed in the Gaza Strip, the Times of
London reported.

Martino, commenting on the Italian Web site IlSussidiario.net, urged
Israel and Hamas to be "more willing" to hold peace talks and accused
both sides of only thinking of their own interests while civilians paid
the price.

Expressing concern over the humanitarian situation, Marino said:
"Let's look at the conditions in Gaza: these increasingly resemble a
big concentration camp. Defenseless populations are always the ones who
pay."

The Israeli Foreign Ministry called the remarks "Hamas propaganda"
and accused the cardinal of ignoring "numerous crimes" by Hamas.

//www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/01/08/Vatican_rem...

Finally some world leaders make an stand against criminal acts of Israel.However according to Israel, Vatican is on Hamas' payroll now. What an audacity on Israels part.

capt_ayhab [-YT]

Kaveh jaan, Don't worry

Kaveh jaan,

Don't worry about Anonymous7, he/she doesn't know what he/she is talking about. 

Torpedo

Easier said than done, I'm afraid.

The terrorists have owe a huge measure of their "success" to being able to camouflage themselves among general civilian society. Being that they do not represent a sovereign country or their legitimate military, they are often in plainclothes, making it difficult, if not impossible to single them out in a crowd.

They don't have headquarters in a given location, but use homes, shops, and businesses to conduct their activities. They gain the trust of the locals with their "social programs" so that they can do what they do with no one raising an eyebrow. The locals think "oh they are paying for medicine for the children, so how can they be terrorists?"

Then, when they carry out their terrorist acts, they certainly don't go advertising what they're about to do. They do it and come back to their safe houses amoing the locals, as if they went to the movies or something. Then Israeli intelligence tracks them down, and the IDF retaliates, with the terroists using the locals, who are in the dark about their criminal activities, as human shields.

The Viet Cong did the same thing during the Vietnam War.

You are right. This isn't acceptable in civilized society. But this hasn't been a civilized society for a long, long time.

Israel is doing nothing to terrorists.

Why not arrest and bring to justice actual terrorists? Why does Israel kill women and children and innocent bystanders? This is not acceptable in any civilized country. Not one! Collective punishment is a war crime. Israel's excuses do not make that go away.

Kourosh

While calling for the destruction of a country without the physical or material means may be nothing more than rhetoric, threats, or good old-fashioned k**-e-sher, you wouldn't consider the actual terrorist acts of bombings to be the same, would you? Aren't these acts of terror sufficient in and of themselves to be considered acts of war?

Please look around the site at the various blogs concerning not just these most recent events, but the overall issue. There are several people who have stated that Hamas and Hezbollah were duly elected representatives, implying that being elected justifies their actions. Believe me, I couldn't make that up if I tried.

I agree that there are elements in the Israeli government that are just as evil as their counterparts. I wouldn't deny that at all. And I'm certain that the demonstrations within Israel itself reflects the growing sentiment among Israelis that 60 years of "they launch rockets, we launch rockets" has resulted in nothing other than keeping weapons manufacturers in business. And they're absolutely right. They're tired of it. And so are the Palestinian people, I'm sure. But unlike the average Israeli, if the average Palestinian were to demonstrate and call for peace, Hamas and Hezbollah would go after them thinking that they're Israeli spies. After all, they accused  members of Fatah of exactly that and retaliated when they publicly expressed that they want to sit down with Israel to create a proper permanant solution.

Both sides, meaning the Palestinian National Authority and Israel, need to get together somewhere neutral, and get this resolved once and for all, because somewhere in between all the bombs and rockets and blood is the solution. But it can't involve the U.S., Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda, Egypt, Morocco, the UN or anyone else. 

Essentially the same

Kaveh.

Perhaps you need to read what ananymous 8 wrote one more time. Calling for the destruction of a country where you do not have the means, the tools and an organized and well-funded millitary to carry it out, amounts to nothing but empty rethorics and mere threats. It does not possess sufficient credibility to be construed as a declaration of war.

No one here is saying thatyou are an advocate for the killing of innocent children and women. That is final and an established fact. It is amazing to me that you constantly cling on to the claim that for some reason, people are legitimizing Hammas and hezbollah and equating them with the real innocent palestinian people.

Israel's leaders are not any less criminals thatthe hammas and Hezbollah's are, just because they do not strap themselves with explosives. They tend to engage in more covert and secret intelligence related operations that would tend to inflict
even more fundamental damage. That is a form of terrorism indeed. In a sense, they, with their actions have endangered the lives of their own citizens. Why do we see many demonstration inside israel? why do we see such a massive wave of condemnation by their people?