Sic Semper Tyrannis

FYI/Eminent Persians:Men & Women Who made Modern Iran by Milani

Eminent Persians: the Men and Women Who Made Modern Iran, 1941-1979

Gorge Daroon!!!

Ladies and Gentlemen(GentleAhmads included especially), :-)

Please watch and listen carefully to Fereydoon Mooshiri in this clip below and then continue with your comments further if you wish!

Peace.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWWLMazFHCE&feature...

Vildemose, ARE YOU 100% INSANE??????????!!!!

Are you serious with this nonsense?! I expect utter lies and misinformation from the IRI beards on this site, but from you I expect better than this garbage. 

You write, "I have to agree with you. Shah was not only a coward but extremely vindictive. He knew very well the kind of havoc the mullahs were going to wreak and he took his final revenge on his subjects by not doing anything about it and leaving his country and people. A very sick and vengeful man, indeed."

Are you freaking out of your mind?! What the hell happened to you?

"final revenge"

"extremely vindictive"

"A very sick and vengeful man, indeed."

Get a life, would you! The internet is taking over your soul, you're on this damn site 24/7! You don't know what the heck you're talking about! I thought you did, but you're delirious! Did you have an emotional day today? I mean, this sort of Monday morning quarterbacking is getting ridiculous!

Not even the Hezbollahi whores on this site call the Shah "vengeful and vindictive" and after "revenge." Where's this shit coming from?!

Where you even alive back then? I was, and I was there, it was insane. It wasn't just the lower classes that were out there protesting, middle-class and some rich idiots were having a ball at the insanity-fest as well! People were not rational in those days (they were viewing Khomeini's freaking ugly face on the moon, for Chrissakes)! A million people showed up to greet this Hendi mullah at Behesht-e-Zahra -- what did you want the Shah to do -- send Oveissi over there to gun down a million people?!

In December of 1978, the Ashura crowds were in excess of a million people -- it was unstoppable at that point. The best thing the Shah could've done was to leave and hope that Bakhtiar could salvage a functioning government. Obviously, he never expected that the army would declare its neutrality.

The Shah was a king, not a military dictator in the order of Paviz Musharef. A king gets his power from his people, not from his army. If the people turn against the king, it's over. What good is a throne that sits on a river of blood of innocent people? This is EXACTLY what the Shah said to Richard Helms in his hospital room in New York when Helms' wife asked the Shah, "Your Majesty, why didn't you stay in Iran." 

The nation in 1978 had completely abandoned reason and common sense and it was too late to do anything about it in the fall of 1978. The Shah had to go, but that didn't mean the monarchy had to fall. The Shah knew very well that if he killed twenty thousand protestors, there would be no throne left for his son. The Pahlavi dynasty would be the kiss of death after a blood bath, which is why he didn't appoint a strong man like Oveissi to head the military government. 

In the fall of 1978, the best thing that the Shah could've done for Iran (and for his dynasty) was to leave the country and hope that Bakhtiar could salvage a constitutional monarchy in the true sense of the word, with his son as the reigning monarch.

Some of you people need to stop playing rewind with the benefit of knowing what actually happened. The Shah had to make decisions in REAL TIME, without the benefit of hindsight. The Shah was not vengeful, hoping to take revenge on his nation -- that's the most ridiculous thing I've read on Iranian.com in 2 years!!!!!!!!!!!!! And that's saying a lot, considering the filth and utter lies that come out of the IRI crowd on this site!

Nobody knew what Khomeini was going to be like once he took power! He even fooled some of his closest advisors -- Bani Sadr, Ghotbzadeh, Bazargan! Were Bazargan and Bani Sadr "exceedingly vindictive" and seeking "revenge" on Iranians as well? I mean, come on, stop this UTTER madness! The Hendi mullah fooled everybody in Iran!

And who's to say that the Shah knew exactly how it would all turn out? Was he that smart? If so, then how come he didn't see the goddamn revolution coming? What, do you think that the Shah had a freaking crystal ball, and he could see the 8-year war with Iraq on the horizon and forecast sham elections 30 years later in 2009, including Neda's death? 

Are you insane?!

On top of it all, the freaking guy was dying from cancer!!!!!!!!! Jesus H. Christ! Get some sleep and some vitamins in your system and stop spewing junk on the net! There was no cure for his cancer, all he took were pills, and many anti-depressant pills on top of it! The man was terminally ill -- one of the most debilitating cancers in the world had invaded his body and all he heard for a whole goddamn year seemingly every day was "Marg Bar Shah!" I'd wanna leave the damn country as well, with its jackass citizens! Of course, very soon after he left Iran, the guy died! As in DEAD! And you say he was seeking revenge and that he was extremely vindictive! 

Jesus, you people make me so sick with your level of UTTER SHAMEFUL 100% IGNORANCE!!!!

Get real, and while you're at it, read some freaking books instead of surfing the goddamn net 24/7! 

It's an Easy Question to Answer

The Islamic Republic opened Iranian people's eyes to the reality. As Khomeini (DHS) used to say, "People of Iran must become Agaah(aware)". The reality being that religions are myths created by the people to fool and control the other people. IRI tought Iranians to appreciate the freedoms they had and to give their lives protecting it.

The best contribution of it to Iranians is that when it ends, Mullahs will never return to Iranian societies again unless as a low form of shamed dogs, lower than what they were before 1979 when they stole the revolution and took Iranians hostage. 

Iraniandudeee

I agree that American society is very screwed up. But so is IRI where they stone people to death; rape men and put Islam ahead of Iran. At least in the US nobody forces me to live under 6th century Arab occupation Sharia rules.

Of course I rather see the educated Iranians live in Iran. And I would be glad to go home if we did not have to live under  the abomination that is IRI. You bet I will go back the day these bastards are gone. In fact I want to be there to watch them tried and put away to rot for good. 

Regarding money. The US has power whether you like it or not. Iranian Americans have numbers and money. That means influence. We can either use it to benefit Iran or not. I say use it to at least protect Iran's interests. Why shouldn't we? I am a realist. I do not put ideology above reality. My goal is what is good for Iran. I have no problems picking up the phone and calling my representative or donating to an Iranian lobby to help do what is good for Iranian people. 

Regarding the image. I know lots of Americans believe me our image is fine. We are vastly preferred to other immigrants. Because we are well behaved, work hard and pay tax, do not live off the government; are not criminals; and so on. People don't mind when an Iranian moves into their neighborhood. They know we don't bring it down. People have no reservation in hiring Iranians. These are good things that counter the fake images out of Hollywood.

VPK

Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Apart from degrading stereotypes and mockery what other things have we achieved in our name by immigrating abroad, especially to and in America?  Further more, I understand that Iranians are one of the most succesful and educated immigrant groups, but is this how they (whoever they may be) represent us and our community?

If the revolution never had happened then these 6 million educated people would haved stayed in Iran and actually would benefit Iran and the Iranian people, then maybe we wouldn't be in the situation we are in now.

I would never encourage any of my fellow Iranians to live abroad, especially in this diseased land known as the U.s, cause this place will pollute your mind with its fucked up society. No-matter how  strong or succesful your community is here, they will always try to mock and degrade you. Just look at the Italians as an example. A handful of Guido douche-bags have ruined the name of all italians world-wide, even though these people are a product of the American society, culture and mentality the blame will still be on the Italians by the American mass.

Money has nothing on dignity.

"You should not be afraid of the ideology but of the determination and will of the men behind it"

"A drowning man is not troubled by rain" Persian Proverb

Re: A self check exercise

I totally disagree with arbitrary ways of dividing ourselves. The IRI of 31 years ago bears little resmbelance to that of today. In fact by your standards most Iranians in Iran do not qualify to fight IRI since they were not even born at that time!! I am sorry but the criteria is frankly utter nonsense.

This goes to: Who is more "Iranian" who knows more about our mentality; who is westernized; who is not. We are all in this together and all of our opinions are sacred and matter.

Whether one was in Iran during the revolution or not matters not one bit to me. What matters is the person's love of Iran and their devotion to Iran. Real change will happen most likely by people who were not even born at that time.

VPK

Iraniandudeee

There is a silver lining in having 6 million Iranians living out of Iran. Our culture has penetrated much of the West. Iranians have become a strong and powerful community in the US. We have a highly educated base in many ways like the Jewish community. In time we shall organize and be able to influence policy toward Iran. As we speak the few Iranian organizations like NIAC and PAAIA have begun to wield power. I know some people don't like NIAC but the point is that we have numbers and money which mean votes and donation which means influence and power. Make no mistake our presence in the West will in time help Iran. Imagine an Iranian lobby rivaling AIPAC is possible if we want it.

In addition we have learned various political systems first hand. We are no longer fooled by fake intellectuals as people were in 1979. Those days if someone had spent time in the West people listened to them. No matter how stupid their ideas! Now who cares if someone spent time in America? We have 3+ millions people here! We have matured politically and become sophisticated. All thanks for IRI for sending us packing to the four corners of the world.

I guess they did do something. No intentionally but "adoo shavad sababeh kheir gar khoda khahad". 

To our increasing presence and influence in the world. VPK

retracted

retracted

Another accomplishment

1979- 200 thousand Iranians abroad, and mainly to attend American universities.

2010- 6 million and counting Iranians abroad who had to leave their own land for economic, political etc.. reasons. Not to metnion that 100 thousand Iranians leave Iran every year, and most are uni graduates, which just brings us to another great accomplishment of the islamic khar regime and it's policies, Brain-drain.

MY GOODNESS, will these accomplishments of the islamic republic ever end? ooooooooooooooH!

"You should not be afraid of the ideology but of the determination and will of the men behind it"

"A drowning man is not troubled by rain" Persian Proverb

I am not sure if this simple fact has been mentioned

1979   approx. 7 TOOMANS = $1

2010   approx.  1000 TOOMANs= $1

for the Nth time

Foul mouth name calling does not substitute as an valid argument.

It only demonstrates that your mouths were not washed by proper hygienic soaps by your parents.

-YT 

Barkings of the pathetic desperate islamists

Islamic republic's accomplishments are drugs, corruption, extreme poverty, pushing Iranians towards the western/American life more and more everyday, bastardizing the nation, but ofcource aslong as they kill Israeli kids and civilians they have accomplished everything in their own islamist minds. These people right here are a primitive delusional and sad bunch of individuals. The lowest life forms.

When the time comes and trust me it's very near, the islamists shouldn't ask for mercy on their families and loved one's, cause fuck an eye for an eye, you take our eye and we'll kill you and everyone close to you, that is our policy.

"You should not be afraid of the ideology but of the determination and will of the men behind it"

"A drowning man is not troubled by rain" Persian Proverb

Iran went from the 4th

Iran went from the 4th strongest military to being the 22 strongest. Yes, great accomplishments indeed.

"You should not be afraid of the ideology but of the determination and will of the men behind it"

"A drowning man is not troubled by rain" Persian Proverb

the 1979 rev

You people do realize that most Iranians didn't participate in the revolution, right? about 8 million people (Including kids) participated in the revolution of 1979, and most of thos people were liberals and communists.

"You should not be afraid of the ideology but of the determination and will of the men behind it"

"A drowning man is not troubled by rain" Persian Proverb

Vildemose jaan, I just got a chance to read the Reuter's article

Thank you, good article. Judging from what I am hearing from people on the ground in Iran the inflation and unemployment numbers may be higher than mentioned in the article. Thanks again.  

Shah's neglect

I was reading over the comments again and focused on the numbers posted by kavehbc1.  Look at these figures:

 increase in the percentage of literacy in rural areas from 30.5% in 1978 to 75% in 1994;

As we all know, uneducated people are usually more religious and more superstitious.  What the Shah failed to realize was that by ignoring rural areas and focusing on rapid modernization in major cities, he was leaving a vast portion of the population behind.  Failing to bring education to this large portion of the people made them targets of mullah's religion infused propaganda, kind of like what is taking place in Afghanistan today with the Taliban.  In time, mullahs were successful in recruiting this uneducated and religious class for their purposes.  In a sense, Shah was the victim of his own ignorance in that regard.

And I do not believe that the growth in literacy rates has anything to do with the mullahs.  It's more a function of rapid urbanization and the abandonment of rural areas--which in and of itself is a function of IRI's failed economic policies.  

nilofar you missed the whole point of the film!

"life of Brian" was a satarical movie having a good bash at religion, and I liked it for that! But you might have a point as the "dim followers" of the "judean people front" did, The the colonists , with no roots amongsts the masses (read IRI) can achieve a few things, but lets take your and the dim followers of judeans logic further and ask yourself which colonist can do abetter job of building roads, sewers, buildings, all the stuff close to your heart; USA or IRI? Now for once give an honset answer to this question!

vpk: I have to agree with

vpk: I have to agree with you. Shah was not only a coward but extremely vindictive. He knew very well the kind of havoc the mullahs were going to wreak and he took his final revenge on his subjects by not doing anything about it and leaving his country and people. A very sick and vengeful man, indeed.

Dear Rosie

The murder of military people is not a matter of claims it is a matter of fact. They are there with photos to prove them. In fact IRI proudly proclaims it.

The Iranian military was like a body with the head severed the body broke down. In addition it required spare parts and maintenance. Truth is that is was highly dependent on American technology. Without is the military quickly broke down. That is why Iran had to go to Israel for spare parts and help. The help that they did provide (albeit at a price). Now all the Issrael bashers won't admit it but without Isreal Iran would have been hard pressed to keep the military machines going. 

The breaking from America was the biggest thing that helped Saddam. While Iran was allied with US Saddam did not have a chance. With US intelligence and support the Iranian military had Saddam scared out of his mind. 

Now things are different because IRI learned not to depend on others. I guess that is one of theri accomplishments.

There was

a lot of blame to go around. We must all accept responsibility for the creation on this Islamic hell. Yes there was not doubt an effort to wreck Iran. But the British assholes and JC would not have succeeded without our help. I was there, I watched it. I was a kid but I was brainwashed to hate the Shah at that time. It took me years to realize what he tried to do and realize what a good but flawed man he was.

Thankfully I was so mistrusting of both the Mullahs and the communists that I opposed the revolution the whole time. 

The whole climate was strange. Shah's love of the West and his attempt to impress them while neglecting the people. The Iranian popular culture specially at the universities where being a communist was the "cool" thing. I still remember my cousin who was a perfectly normal guy. He got to the university and they turned him into a communist. Singers like Farhad who sang all these sad songs about made up tragedies. Ironically the tragedies became real once the Islamists took over.

Now most of us have our eyes open and won't fall for this any more. Except for the IRI apologists who hide in the West and shill for them.

Dear Rosie,

In 1976, Iran's unemployment rate was a big fat ZERO -- in fact, there was a shortage of workers in Iran, which is why we had a huge influx of Philipinos, Koreans, Pakistanis and Afghans working in Iran.

In our neighborhood, there were scores of Philipino workers (something that as a child I always thought was kind of weird) and their kids would play soccer with us in our street.

Think for yourself, if there was an unemployment crisis in Iran, what would these foreigners be doing in our country? Moreover, why would the regime allow them in if we had an unemployment problem?

Fact is, we had an under-employment problem in Iran in those days, which explains the presence of these foreigners.

I have heard from the

Monarchists' side that there were huge executions of military officers during and right after the Revolution, and from the...well, what is known as the 'appologist' side (sorry...), that it was only upper echelon officials with specific serious charges.

Usually when two such polarized vews exist among many highly intelligent, educated people, in my experience the truth lies somewhere in between. But that's the whole problem, u c? Because 'the truth lies..'

Is there any way on earth (in hell? same dif?) that there could actually be a reasoned discussion on this without a symbolic tir baraan via pixel?

Spear

what! Decaf? I am getting more coffee. In fact I am gonna start chewing coca leaves and so should you! Nevertheless you do have some good points. It does hurt to realize that some of your points may just be ture. Darn it! 

I was wondering if anyone else had any idea

about the employment rate in the 70's because I've read statistics as wildly divergent as near zero percent and almost 40.

Thanks.

"Q"

writes, "We have no idea what Iran would be like without the revolution. Do we know how well Iran would have done in a fight against Iraq ?... Would Shah have been able to inspire the sacrifices necessary to save Iran?"

Guess what, genuis, if the Shah was in power with his military in tact (as opposed to gutted/executed en masse), Saddam Hussein would've never had the guts to attack Iran!!! The war which your hero (mullah Hendi Khomeini) imposed on Iran would've never happened! NEVER!!! Saddam Hussein was famous for being the Shah's bitch, nothing more.

Got it?

Now go spin your lies and misinformation, it's what you do best.

VPK, one more thing...

VK writes, "If the Shah... had some balls none of this would have ever happened."

VPK, take it easy, pal, and get a cup of decaf coffee or some chai latte at your local Starbucks and catch up on some history. Reza Shah had a pair of humongous balls standing 6'3", what happend to him??? And Mossadegh, how big and powerful were his onions? And what happend to him ultimately? Amir Kabir??? I don't think we know much about his balls. Maybe we should. Abas Mirza, a Qajar prince, had some impressive balls, so you would think, and he was wiped out as well.

If you don't know, Abas Mirza was the only capable Qajar in the history of Iran (Mossadegh notwithstanding), outside of the dynasty's founder, Agha Muhammad Khan, who, ironically enough, had no actual balls (they were cut off by his father's enemies when he was a child), and yet, Agha Muhammad Khan operated with such fearless ferocity and ruthlessness (he once blinded 20,000 people in a village which had rebelled against him) that one would think he had the world's biggest balls of them all!

Agha Muhammad Khan was assasinated by two of his own soldiers as he was preparing to invade Moscow -- this from a man who had no live balls in his ball-sack! Of course, less than 30 years later, the Russians forced the Treaty of Turkamenchai and Golestan down our collective throats! 

The moral of this sad, perverse story is that I'm afraid the 1979 National Suicide had less to do with the size of the Shah's testicals, and more to do with the size of Iran's geography vis-a-vis the energy rich Persian Gulf.  That's just a rumor, if you want "substantive facts," go to Captain Ayhab!

Veiled Prophet, hold your wild horses...

VPK writes, "Why is it that Castro has held power despite best efforts of the US?"  

Actually, after the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Americans, through a sissy democratic president, JFK, rewarded Soviet bad behavior with two incredibly juicy chips. Mind you, the Soviets had violated international law by placing the missiles in Cuba. Instead of a naval blockade, or god forbid an invasion, JFK actually rewarded Soviet bad behavior by not only pulling American missiles out of Turkey, but by also agreeing to stop trying to assasinate or remove Castro from power.

This was a huge coup by the Soviets. There was no way in hell that the Soviets would've started WWIII over a tiny Cuban Island with no resources, even if the Americans had invaded, but no, just like any other northeastern sissy democrat, JFK opted for the ultra pussy approach. All of these facts of course gets lost in the liberal media translation, i.e., myth-making clap-trap of Camelot.

Facts are all too often too inconvinient for fiction.

And of course after the Cuban missile crisis, Castro had a golden life insurance policy where he could do as he wished all over the world (as in Latin America, with his buddy Che Guevara) and no longer would America try to depose him. Castro even helped mullah Hendi Khomeini come to power, as many of the Iranian revolutionaries were trained in Cuba with impunity.

And, oh, yeah, another minor fact: Cuba has no oil.

One more thing, Captain...

The Pahlavi-hating Captain writes, "Any answer of substance[DK your answers have no substance much like yourself] will be appreciated."

This coming from a man who actually considers his petty, tired jabs at Reza Pahlavi's weight, as in his waist measurement, a substantive "fact."

I guess we all have a different ideas of what constitutes "substance."

Captain Ayhab... shame, shame

"Please scientifically tell me why you can not name one Shirin Ebadi?"

First of all, any objective observer of the Nobel Peace Prize will tell you that it is a political award, highly so, which is not indicative of anything by way of "progress" in Iran vis-a-vis women's rights (just consider the recent winner, Barrack Obama, who had done absolutely nothing to deserve the Nobel Peace Prize, other than not being George Bush, as it was given to him 18 days into his presidency).

In 1997-98, Iran was a pressure cooker, ready to explode. The Europeans, the puppet-masters that they think they are, surreptitiously awarded Shirin Ebadi the Nobel Peace Prize so as to cajole, if not force the Americans to re-think their Iran policy, i.e., away from "regime change."

In other words, the plan was to give this woman in Iran a prestigeous, international award so as to put the whole world on notice, specially America, that the political situation in Iran is improving, even if at a glacial pace, and that we, in the West, should keep our hands off (specially if they belong to Uncle Sam). This painted the regime in Iran in a positive light, in that it had allowed a woman to succeed in her professional status in such a way as to be deserving of Nobel's award (no less!!!).

It was political theatre, nothing more, designed to persuade the Clinton Administration "to deal" with Iran and abandon "regime change." Not to mention that even a highly corrupt terrorist like Yasser Arafat was given the Nobel Peace Prize, which tells you all you need to know about this highly political award handed out by highly phony do-gooders (read: mercantalists) in Europe!