Sic Semper Tyrannis

ao

as i said, your blog is a good conversation starter.  i may not agree with the logical argument of the blog, but it opened a can of worms which is the iri fact book.  one cannot get into a pissing match of comparing data found on wiki and google from different eras and prove things right or wrong.  we should stick to the subject matter that you presented in iri's accomplishments.  the comparative analysis that is begged in this conversation would take a few dissertations and then some.  we can't compare apples and oranges.  we have to condition datasets from different eras to be able to compare apples with apples.  otherwise, it's an endless and pointless shouting match.

what puzzles me is someone like captain who's an educator of graduate students and dismisses logical arguments and would like to compare 'facts' against 'facts' in such a superficial manner.  as someone who also taught research methods and other analytical courses to graduate students (in a previous career), i cannot emphasize more that no one can "prove" anything in a non-mathematical subject.  proofs are only in mathematical world.  we can only "demonstrate" assertions and hypotheses and this sort of analysis cannot be done in couple of hours of chit chat on the net.

thanks for the link. 

I'd say

Great blog dear Anonymous Obs. jan! Thank you!

BTW, great comment Alex in Florida! 

 The first thing that came to my mind was cheap drug...but kidding aside, it is really hard to find anything positive to say about IRI, but I think I've finally found the only good thing produced by IRI - and its long and dark period in our history - as a gift to the Iranian people

This one thing is the "Great ART".

Everyone knows that the great art is created through Pain and Suffering....so I have no doubt in my mind that Iran is going to have the best artists ever...and IRI has been doing its best to help artists to suffer even more, by putting them in jail or torturing them. Too bad sometimes they lose the sight and kill the artist by mistake...but statistically they are encouraging heavily the art.

Of course, it is up to us to decide if we really like arts that much? Is it really worth the pain?...I'm still wondering!

Cheers all!

Just "one" good thing? I

Just "one" good thing?

I don't get it. What's the object here? To state "one" good thing, and then you'll try and prove it isn't good enough, or that the Islamic Republic wasn't responsible, or that it could have even been better using a different mode of government, or that it's not a true benefit for "the people"? This has all the makings of an insincere question.

That's the question posed in your title. But then, further down the paragraph, you change your request to a list of what the IRI has done to improve the lives of the Iranian people, and to improve their standing in the world. That's different than your title. And who is "the world"? Is it the dozen or so Western countries that are decidedly anti-Iran? Or is it the remaining 180 countries in the world? And are we talking governments or ordinary people?
Really, this is nothing more than a sloppy and insincere effort to knock the Islamic Republic of Iran's accomplishments.

But let's keep it simple. I'll stick to the question posed in your title. One good thing that the IRI has one for the Iranian people:

- It has built its own rocket and successfully put a satellite into orbit. It is one of only nine countries in the world that has accomplished this scientific feat. And as an Iranian "people" myself, I consider this "good."

Now, go ahead and knock it. You're obviously anti-Iran, so nothing in your opinion will ever be good enough, until such a time that your subversive delusion is realized- which is nowhere near. And, like it or not, there is only one Iran in the world. So if nothing Iran does is going to ever be good enough, you are anti-Iran. That's all your post demonstrates- and nothing else.

Please Do not Read before going to sleep.

Accomplishment #1

Back in 1979 Islam was a respected idea in Iran.  After 31 years of Islam plus democracy, today both ISLAM and DOG SHIT are thought of in the exact same way by the majority of Iranians.

Accomplishment #2

Back in 1979, the old, out dated, unproven, highly ridiculed idea of democracy was highly respected in Iran among intellectuals. Today Iranians ask questions like, why is the word democracy not even mentioned one time in the constitution of the united states? Why are 95% of the democratic republics the most miserable inhumane places on earth to live? From the democratic republic of haiti to india.  Therefore Most people don't want to buy democratic ideal for their future government.  IRI was enough for them.

Accomplishment #3

Back in 1979, Iranians had Freedom. Today they live in a democratic style tyranny... not unlike 95% of all other western imposed democratic republics.  Iranians want Freedom back, the way the Shah had delivered it.  This would not be possible without experiencing Democracy first hand.

Accomplishment #4

Respect for Homosexuality.. okay Islamic republic didn't exactly get most Iranians to respect homosexuality as a good choice.  But it is true that homosexuality was disapproved of in the attitudes of Iranians before the revolution.  On a factual level most Iranians realize that at least homosexuality has done less harm to Iran and humanity than either Islam or democratic republics, so Today many Iranians can say homosexuality as a choice is deserving of a more respect than Islam or Democratic Republics... although they may not choose it for themselves.

Accomplishment #5

No one but Muslims praise Khomeini and therefore they are becoming fewer by the day. Khomeini was a National Gift. In 1979 most people were Liars and very dishonest in Iran, which resulted in not defending their way of life or the shah who was a hero based on how he helped all people.  Khomeini was like hitting bottom. Without him people would not have stopped to think... okay now we absolutely have to be truthful at least with ourselves and even honest with respect to others.  Otherwise we will stay with this asshole forever.

Accomplishment #6

Appreciating the Shah, any ungrateful asswipe would worship the shahs generosity and highly principalled approach in serving Iranians... ironically except the ungrateful asswipe Iranians themselves.  Today we truly appreciate him upon pausing and reflecting.

Accomplishment #7

Realizing we are good enough as we are as people and don't have to be any better than we already are.  We just need to use our gifts and not let them languish unused, like courage, passion, love, comapassion.  We are fine.  All we need to do is be ourselves and not follow lies like democracy, islam, judaism, christianity, evolution, socialism, or anythng that makes unkeepable promises to us,  Live In Peace and Free, its all that matters. 

Vildemose & HG

Vildemose: you are very kind.  Thank you.

HG: one of the reasons for IRI's belligirence (and its supporters) is that it holds all the cards.  It controls the flow of information (to a large extent) into and out of Iran, and then bullies those who oppose it into proving it wrong based on facts and information that it controls.

The same dynamic is at work when they confront you --as they always do on this site--when you crticize the IRI by sayng: why don't you go to Iran and oppose the IRI there?  As if the IRI is a democracy where one can change things from within.  Now, you can scream your head off that how can I possibly do so when I get sent to Kahrizak straight from the airport?  But they will keep on repeating the same thing.  This, of course, also ignores the fact that their beloved Ayatooleh Hendizadeh and his entire entourage came from outside Iran.  But that's the subject of another blog which I wrote a few months ago.  Here's the link:

//iranian.com/main/blog/anonymous-observer/hypocrisy-good-1979-bad-2009

I'm still waiting for

I'm still waiting for Ghajar's dynasty data? Perhaps Ms. Rusta can help.

captain jan

can we use iri facts as kashk? :)

Any one for some Kashke Bademjoon?

Sorry gentlemen and gentle ladies, while you are trying to get the numbers I humbly asked for, I should go have some Kashke Bademjoon, 

I love the darn thing..... and I am starving.......

love you all but please no BS with me.

Good nite

-YT 

AO: This is a great blog

AO: This is a great blog and please have another blog soon. I have a numbing headache myself and can't concentrate much. I need to rest my eyes for a while.

Excellent topic. Dispelled many myths about the "progressive" IRI governance,

ao

if one had the freedom to go to iran and collect facts and refute these bogus data, then maybe, maybe, some would see the folly of using 'iri facts.'  here are couple of facts on the situation in iran:

//standupforamerica.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/iran-protest.jpg

//azadmardoman.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/iran-protest-2.jpg

captain jan: Proof?

captain jan: Proof? Hardly

Maghlateh, Probably

Safsteh, Possibly...lol

Sure onlyinamerica

As I mentioned below, I am a bit tired.  But I promise that I will return a bit later and will list you all kinds of things that the Pahlavis did for Iran which could NOT be attributed to a nation's natural growth and progress. 

Pre Set?

If Pre set means proof, so be it. Guilty as charged

-YT 

Hamsadeh Ghadimi

Due respect, all you have explained so far been your animosity toward anyone that does not agree with you.

I would hardly call that a debate.

And as a scientist,,,,,,,,, I have been asking for some substantiated proof from all you guys as to how are you going to explain the fact that Iranian women are more excelled in-spite of all the pressure and suppression .

Refute me, tell me how you perceive them as being so inferior that you can not even come up with one positive accomplishment of our women in Iran.

Please scientifically tell me why you can not name one Shirin Ebadi?

I am still waiting

-YT 

now, now captain aziz: You

now, now captain aziz: You are Trying  to force debate along your pre-set lines with fabricated data from IRI. A pity that the rest of us won’t go along with it because there is just no denying that during the Shah's the immigration rate of Iranians to the West was not nearly as much as it is now. If things are so great why even hizbollahis leave the country? I don't need the MOIS fabricated data to tell me what's going on in Iran.

I would like an independent investiagation to verify the veracity of any of those data. Would the IRI allow it?? Of course, not...

Since when we should believe CIA or IRI for that matter??

HG

Thank you for a very well reasoned comment.  As you can see, at this point, there is no arguing with our good captain.  He wants proof that under the IRI a woman;s testimony in court is worth half of a man's  testimony, as if that is a secret.  I think that he is now just arguing for the sake of arguing, and I don't like to engage in that.

Extream ends of the spectrum of Iranian psychy

I agree with Abarmard. What kind of silly question is that? Is like asking:

Stupid question, isn't it?

AO

[Tell me which one these facts are wrong, and we'll talk:]\

You are yet to provide a link to substantiate your FACTS........

How long should we wait for something other than your personal view and mine?

Unless we want ot call in the name callers !?

-YT 

hg jan: thank you. I forgot

hg jan: thank you. I forgot the term. Absolutely correct.

captain

as i explained the facts that you presented may not be factual.  as a scientist, one should be a critical thinker and not take data from unreliable resources as a given.  they're truly a bugger indeed.

Hamsadeh Ghadimi

[captain, it seems that you're forgoing logical arguments in lieu of 'facts.']

You are so right sir, FACTS are always such a buggers aren't they?

-YT 

vildemose

the phenomena you just described is called 'time trend.'  through time, there technological advances (typically imported to developing nations such as iran) which lead to improvement in certain indicators.

AO

On Infant mortality: The reason is simple. Advancement in Medical technology, IT technology, Biotecnology, genetics, including genetic and pre-natal testings across the board, pediatircs through geriatrics.

For example, many of Iraq war veterans who come back from Iraq today would not have survived and would been counted as war casualties during the Vietnam era.

These so-called facts are somehow generated by some elite upper-echelon leftists and then parrotted mindlessly as proof. All of them use the same source. It would be interesting to find this source.

ao, captain

ao,  it seems that these days the 'top 10' '1 thing' blogs get people most riled up.  the shorter, the more comments.  however, i think your blog is a good conversation starter.

captain, it seems that you're forgoing logical arguments in lieu of 'facts.'  i argue that the rights of women has been greatly diminished under the iri.  examples include divorce laws, custody laws, employment opportunity, freedom of mobility, .... (there are many blogs on the issue of women's rights).  you bring up cia facts which as someone mentioned is the re-iteration of false data provided by iran.  international ngos are not in iran collecting independent data.  vildemose aptly brought up the notion of opportunity cost.  would a democratic government or the previous regime would have achieved more than iri?  that is the opportunity cost.  we cannot go back 31 years and then re-live it to compare data to see which form of government would've been more successful in providing opportunities and wealth for the iranian people (unless we use a host of assumptions and do simulations).  that's why we need to use logical arguments.

the cia fact book iran's unemployment rate at 10-11%.  do you for a second believe this data.  there's also no mention of underemployment.  my cousin's servant has a master's degree.  i've seen many taxi drivers with degrees.  banks are filled with people behind desks twiddling their thumb.  the army of street sweepers can be seen in the morning in tehran cleaning the city (which by the way, by the end of the night the streets are filty). list of examples go on and on.  drug use is rampant.  i've been approached regularly in streets of iran by people trying to sell drugs.  the 'moral' iri turns a blind eye to the drug situation because it cannot provide jobs for their young.  they let them escape reality with drugs.

homelessness is an epidemic.  go to park laleh around 6 am and you cannot find a bench to sit on.  there are families complete with their semovar and few belongings laying under blankets on the grass.  around 7 am, the park custodian goes around blowing his whistle to wake up the homeless and make room for the joggers who'll be coming to use the park. 

you've seen the thugs openly brutalizing people on the streets.  the mullahs and their cronies are openly accusing each other of having stolen more money than the other.  the government is the mafia.  iran and iranians have lost any reputation or glory that was bestowed on us by the great thinkers and artists in iran's past.  iran ranks first in execution in the world.

there's a dual currency economy in the country combined with other barriers making iran unpalpable to investors.  the economy is in the dump (look up iran's misery index); but on paper, they claim they're doing great.

i can go on and on.  i probably could've written a better and more coherent piece given time.  at any rate, do you think that a democracy would've fared worse than the current situation in iran?  do you think that the previous regime (which i don't approve) would've fared worse?  that's the concept of opportunity cost.  we need not concentrate on these bogus numbers presented as facts.  to do a scientific studies, we need to carefully check the validity of parameters, state our assumptions, build a model, get results, present it for peer-review and revise.  we should not be throwing numbers like noghl o nabat in a shouting match and ask the other to prove the numbers wrong.

AO that's a shot over the Bow

This is at the same time that Iraq's own Shia clerics were being brutally oppressed.  How was Khomeini allowed to give speeches, write books and send tapes to Iran under those circumstances is not a mystery.   The Ba'athists wanted something from him, and that was the overthrow of their powerful nemesis, the Shah.  And that's what Khomeini delivered.  Now add to that the fact that the first thing that the Ayatooleh Hendizadeh did was to gut the Iranian military, allowing Saddam to attack.

Saddam was De-Facto President and ran Iraq for year's due to Al-Bakr being ill and elderly.He used secret police controlled people.Including inside Iran.Khomeni had no choice but to put trust in him.

p.s. I forgot to add the one good thing the IRI has done,that would have to be giving American's some Iranian's to be friends with.

re;Jews, Armenians.......

Amou Pino; dobareh, make em up as you go haa. No, Jews and all other minorities had reps in Majlis under Pahlavi too . How ever in post-revolution ommaties under "roodarbaysti" re-granted the same rights for as not to be tagged as intolerant in a PR stunt. Even khalkhali said that;, following Pahlavi,s tradition this way we might as well have "Yazidi" followers reps present in Majlis. As for 5000 yr history of Iran, again you are wrong since the "Iranian" history starts with Media in 2750BC and "Iranian" statehood starts from 2530BC and ends in 641AD . Jews & minorities except in rare occasions had full rights as others. So what ever happened after is on your bill, Omar,s and ommaties ;).

buddy, you booolshit a lot. dont ya amou pino!.

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Benross

well said.  Thank you.

This is just silly

"Name One Good Thing That the IRI Has Done for
the Iranian People in the Past 31 Years"

Very important to always look at any situation based on facts and logic, and never generalize. Very important to never assume absolute. Very important to recognize what it is that attracts some to a system, so even when you have succeeded to "over throw", you bring those people in line with you. 

Very important to distiguish what's good and bad, so your struggles breaks into smaller logical steps of wants and desire rights. Most of those who come from a position of hate, be it to this system or the previous, end up making similar mistakes.

Learning process is to recognize events properly based on logical rather than emotional eyes. However hard at times, it's the right thing to do. Read your enemy and those who you disagree with to better understand positions and positioning. The democratic mind is not gentic but learned. Let's learn to look and recognize those/things that are good vs bad.

Happy Tuesday

Rosie

I don't think you got it Rosie. It's not about numbers. Although historical and comparative numbers favours Pahlavi era hands down. It's about challenging common sense. It's about challenging anything that any decent Iranian feels deeply in his or heart. When it comes to numbers, you probably know that I even challenged the common understanding in IC about last summer election.

And even if numbers contained a decisive element of evaluation, most economists agree that the most efficient economic model for prosperity is slavery. Does it make it a valid criteria and a point of comparison and evaluation?

Challenging common sense is part of inhibited sickness of mind. This is what we should undo first. Does it matter that a sick person writes two lines or unending crap? I value my time, and the time of others.

Now Rosie, you do have IRI defenders that you were missing in this blog. Everything is now more clear for you I hope!

Niloufar

Is your measure of achievement for a brutal dictatorship in an underpopulated country that floats on oil and natural gas the fact that its infant mortality rate is better than it was 30 years ago?!!!!!!  You don't think that is a consequence of a society's natural development?  

The question is what has the IRI done that could not otherwise be achieved?