Sic Semper Tyrannis

I hope UK is run over by islamists and evangelist and religious

nuts of all kinds so they get a taste of their own medicine.

However, that does not change the fact that shi't islam is their medicine. The same shi't that claims to be fighting them and everyone else and the same shi't that stinks so high under which even a rare gold nugget becomes undesirable.

To see Iran as is and question that it would have been better under just about any system less retarded than shi't takes an islamist. Even commies will have done better as they don't push the allah bs.

The day islamist provide a straight answer, they are no longer true to their ideology & faith. As for logicality argument and the usual 'I know best you morons' see my parody on islamist blog '100000000000 reasons why shi't will stink for another 50 years'

OKtaby

VPK, how could you?

"IRI: please do us a favor and send more of them to UK. After what UK did to Iran they deserve to be overrun but Islamists!  "

Pleaaase we've had all sorts of nutters in the UK already, no more. Typical example is Abu Hamza al-Masri, the ex-imam of Finsbury Park mosque, with an eye patch and a hook for a hand. You can’t imagine a more photogenic Islamist villain.

They all come to the UK to get free welfare and STILL preach their Hate propoganda under free speech. NO MORE PLEASE! Send them to Australia like they used to send convicts. it's isolated enough and hopefully the crocodiles and Tasmanian Devils will get them, or Nur-i-Azal will drive them crazy.

ps Q, illogicality...

Maybe you are right, maybe the issue of the illogicality of the framing is a very serious issue. I am starting to realize some possible deep ramifications. Well, I have to think about it. In the meantime please respond to my two questions below, about unemployment in the Pahlavi period and about No Fear's statement about the war. Thanks, Rosie.

Just for the

record. I am not an exile either. I don't chose to live under IRI. However there are no charges against me in Iran. My papers are in order and I am under no pressure. Unlike the IRI apologists who got on the wrong side of the Mullahs and are hiding in West while still "sange shan ra be sineh mizanand".

Regarding achievements they managed to "achieve" sending a whole lot of Islamists out here. One thing I give IRI credit for it flooding UK with Islamists. They are taking revenge on the British! 

IRI: please do us a favor and send more of them to UK. After what UK did to Iran they deserve to be overrun but Islamists! 

VPK

We are constantly blamed & labled

by the hypocritic islamists (again, both closted and otherwise) who themsleves live in the West as "out-of-touch-exiles".

While this may be true for a few, it is inaccurate at best for the rest. I am NOT in exile. I chose to live/remain in the west because I refuse to live under the brutal rule of a backward regime that denies its people the very basic rights that every human being is entilted to on this rock.

However, all those who beat their chests about this regime's "achievements" should have packed up and left early in 1979. 

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IRAN FIRST

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VPK is Right - My apologies to Monkies

I stand corrected.  

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IRAN FIRST

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However, finding them, is as

However, finding them, is as hard as finding gold burried under a pile of shit.

Off hand, I can think of a couple of things, non of them of IRI making, but as a result of a social condition imposed by IRI. Eight years war was beneficial to women status in the society. Because men were busy in the front. This remark is mostly regarding low-middle and lower class. The middle and high middle class women were already enjoying a developed status thanks to Pahlavi era achievements. Also, the isolation and economic devastation during the war has helped small and medium size business flourish in Iran, in a way that it might not have been possible with social planning in peace time. Not in terms of numbers, that could easily surpass the war byproduct, but in terms of the 'culture' of entrepreneurship.

I would call them the resilience of a nation and the achievements of a nation. They have nothing to do with IRI. 

ms. dadvar

your concise answer has been the most objective so far.  it also made me laugh.

One good thing!

Honestly and without being sarcastic, (a lot of ) our people would not learn what a filthy thing is theocracy if it was not for the Islamic Republic. Such a shame that we had to pay such a huge cost!

Well, Q...

good points about all the possible scenarios that could've happened during that unstable time. But I don't think it's a waste of time either. It is making some people try to compare both what was and what is beyond the parameters attempted to be set of what would have been if. And if some of the rest is venting, well fine, it's an excellent place to vent. It is also helpful to remember that by the same token of the 'what if's' not being real, no one can claim that certain things wouldn't've happened if IRI hadn't been in power.

Putting aside the woulda coulda shoulda's, I have seen the most staggeringly divergent statistics given for unemployment in the 70's imaginable--anything from almost 0 percent to 40 percent. What's that all about?

And finally speaking about what is, which is Ahmadinejad, I am more concerned about this than anything else on this blog.

//iranian.com/main/comment/reply/106168/291926

Actually I did misquote No Fear a little. The part about the snot came from the virtual tour thread when I told him I thought his avatar belied a desire to assert his ideas rather than exchange ideas, because it was seen by many as so aggressive. The actual quote was: 

I rather avoid those posters who simply avoid me on the merits of an avatar, or by who i support , without listening to what i have to say. They can continue feasting on their snot bubbles coming out of their nose for all i care.  They lack the objective analytical approach to political issues

As you can see he did not say they were snot, he said they can eat snot bubbles.

He and Jaleho are the only two avowedly pro-Ahmadinejad people I know of here. Are pro-Ahmadinejad intellectuals always so aggressive? Is it common for them to have such a sadistic streak and contemptuous attitude? .Not that Jaleho would ever say something like this but I have found her to be sadistic at times. But actually that's not my point, it's more of a musing. Whether I find Jaleho to be sadistic or not and whether my little sampling of two says anything about a whole group of people, let's leave that aside for now. I just want to focus on No Fear's statement here, which I do find sadistic.

So my question to you Q is what do you think of No Fear's statement about the war?

AO

In all fairness, IRI has done some things that have good and beneficial.  However, finding them, is as hard as finding gold burried under a pile of shit.  The foul odor makes everybody running and screaming "It Stinks".

COP

please be fair to the monkeys. A bunch of monkeys would have done far better than the Mullahs. A monkey is a far more evolved creature than an Islamist. Monkeys don't stone each other of worship hendizadeh Imam!!

NP

all those achievements in Iran were done by Pahalvis not IRI. Other people have already listed the IRI long list of failures. 

The one line response is: why have 4-6 million Iranians left including you? Why do more people leave by the day?

Re: If you don't like it don't go there

it is my country not Islam's. I don't like it and I intend to make my opinion known. If you don't like what I say don't read it. Or why don't you pack up and leave a free West and move to your Islamic paradise? Just in time for the next pile of BS from your Imam.

Biggest hypocrites are the Islamists living in the West.

VPK

Great Blog, AO

and it works like a charm to flush out all the supporters (in closet or otherwise) of the anti nationalist regime of the unelected clergy. They just cannot resist the temptation to defend these people.

We all know that the "achievements" that all these apologists speak of for this regime could have just as easily been reached had a group of monkies been in charge of the government all these years!

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IRAN FIRST

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???

"getting rid of parasitic elements that always wanted the easiest way out -- whether under the monarchy or under IRI. Why stay and try to improve things in Iran when you can buy yourself a ticket to the West?"

Some people had to leave Iran for their lives and left all their assets. Some minorities that stayed lost their families to this corrupt and inhamane regime. How can people "improve things in Iran" when there is no freedom of speech or concience  - when they do speak out they are arrested and their families threatened.

this blog

reminds me of that scene in 'life of brian' where the leader of the 'judean people's front' asks his dim followers: 'what have the romans ever done for us?' and within a couple of minutes, they end up with a surprisingly long list of roman achievements... roads, education, safety, aqueduct, hospitals, sewage, order etc.

If you don't like it don't go there

No one is forcing you.

How about these

//www.iranreview.org/content/blogcategory/17/...

And this from Wiki:

"...Iran is an example of a country that has made considerable advances through education and training, despite international sanctions in almost all aspects of research during the past 30 years. Iran's university population swelled from 100,000 in 1979 to 2 million in 2006. Seventy percent of its science and engineering students are women.[5] Iran's science progress is the fastest in world.[6] Iran has made great strides in different sectors, including aerospace, nuclear science, medical development, as well as stem cell and cloning research.[6]
See it in full: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_technolog...

And this from the New Scientist: Iran showing fastest scientific growth of any country //www.newscientist.com/article/dn18546-iran-s...

and many many more references on the Internet for those who bother themselves with facts.

And in my opinion, one their greatest achievments has been getting rid of parasitic elements that always wanted the easiest way out -- whether under the monarchy or under IRI. Why stay and try to improve things in Iran when you can buy yourself a ticket to the West?

And my hats off to those who have stayed and chosen the hard but sustainable path for achieving long term welfare of the country.

The best thing the Islamic regime has done for Iran

Is to have completely opened up the Iranian people's eyes , to the corruption, hypocricy and brutality of the mullahs. Just the way shah opened the Iranian people's eyes to the same issues with monarchy. The next regime in Iran will be secular, and based on real democracy based on the will of the people. tHE DOWNFALL OF THE ISLAMIC REGIME IN IRAN WILL HERALD THE COLLAPSE OF THIS "ISLAMIC MOVEMENT" WHICH WAS PLANNED BY CIA/MI5 AND EXECUTED BY KHOMEINI/BIN-LADEN

One Good Thing the IRI has done is

Not having to Answer the Question knowing that Most Genuine Iranians already know the answer ...

LOL

For ANONYMOUS PORFOSSOR capt_ayhab's Scientific Credentials ;0)

Shirine Ebadi was the First Female to be named Judge in the history of Iran promoted to that post under the Pahlavi Dynasty only to be stripped of that title after the Revolution :

Hossein Shariatmadari versus Shirin Ebadi

As a result she was forced to only work as a lawyer struggling to give Iranians and particularly female compatriots the social freedoms and rights they already had prior to the revolution:

pictory: Promotional Film on Women during Pahlavi Era (1970's)

Where did they deliver Your Scientific Diploma capt_ayhab ? ... In Ankara ?

SATIRE: Turk and Iranian argue in Austria ;0)

Or was it during a Crash Course in Gaza ?

SATIRE: The Olagh has Landed ;0)

Oh and by the way the so called Coup or rather Counter Coup was not in 1957 but 1953 ...

Other than that I congratulate you, for you are making progress in mastering the english language ...

Islamic regime contributions

1. war

2. death

3. religious & political persecution

4. prostitution

5. drug addiction

6. blemishing iran's name on international arena

7. ridding iran of its most brightest & intelligent children

8. funding terrorism

9. propagating government based superstition & religous mombo jombo

10.  RAZL-PAST SALARI

guys need more???? cuz it can go to infinity

I have to respect their

I have to respect their rules and regulation. Despite of the emergence of modern society, they still manage to stick with their own culture. Outrage over the little pink dress had the press in an uproar six months ago. Brazilian student Geisy Arruda was expelled from her school for donning a dress that was deemed "too short" for university standards. The public outrage was over the fact she's an adult in a School and should be authorized to dress how she desires, specifically in a country, recognized to numerous, for their beaches that aren't exactly modest. All things seemed to turn out nicely for this college student, she now has modeling deals, and even her own talk show. Nonetheless, what appeared to be missed by so numerous news stations is; she wasn't just at a University dressed scandalously, she was attending a Private Church School, where dress code standards were very clear. Some even say that they had seen "areas of the body" that should remain covered and not have to be noticed by those trying to study and earn a degree.

Was Rosie: Illogical

that it should be one good thing that wouldn't've happened anyway if there hadn't been a Rev/Devolution.

This is illogical. Comparing IRI, which is reality and had to operate under real-world conditions to a fantasy of "what would have happened" with utopian assumptions is laughable at best.

The only rational discussion is about what has happened in Iran in the past 30 years.

We have no idea what Iran would be like without the revolution. Would there have been a Communist revolution a few years later? Would there have been some other coup? Shah (who we know would have died in '80) could have been replaced by another US puppet, could this have led to a civil war? Do we know how well Iran would have done in a fight against Iraq (+ all Arab countries + 2 super poewrs) ? Would Shah have been able to inspire the sacrifices necessary to save Iran?

We know nothing of this hypothetical Iran, especially since any bad possibilities have been opportunistically excluded from discussion. The logical fallacy here is that AO (and others here) want to project all sorts of Utopian goodness into a "fantasy", and no one really criticize it because it's not real, it's a lie. It affords a group of people never known for their grasp of reality, to engage in mental masturbation about the "glory" that "could have been."

It's a waste of time, exactly as I told Captain.

Roads

The IRI will be remembered for improving the road system in the country.

Actually, many postives

I believe IRI was able to get clean water, electricity, highways, irrigation and telephone lines to a great number of towns and villages on the outskirts of town.

But you probably would say that other governments would have done the same.

Maybe, maybe not. After all, atleast one thinf that is not prevalant in Iran as in 3rd world countries is fiscal corruption.

I have yet to hear or read in Forbes of billionares in Iran. But there are countless of them in every third world country.

Atleast, I can rest knowing a single family is not fleecing Iran.
A group fleecing Iran, with many multi millionares, I can live with that. At least the wealth gets distributed.

And please don't put out the outlandish list about billions here and there by this or that. You figure, Forbes and Financial TImes would have figured them out by now.

The supposedly richest guy in Iranian gov is Sadeq Mahsooli with est wealth at $160 million, which is change money compared to billions stashed by others in 3rd world countries.

The one single achievement that no other country has been able to achieve:

We won over Iraq without a single bullet. Now we actually help form its government. Considering Iraq has the second highest oil reserves, I would say that is a pretty huge achievement. It has cost US about a good trillion dollars and they still haven't got it right.

So IRI won a One trillion dollar lottery- not Bad. Not Bad.

Here is the ONE thing:

"What has the IRI done in the past 30 years that any other regime could not have done (probably ten time better)? "  

I thought about this and I came up with only one answer:

Removing the taboo of a religious (Islamic) government from the minds of many and showing the true face of mullahs and company and how dangerous the marriage of religion and government can be. 

Other than that my answer to the above question is :

N  O  T  H  I  N  G

Sign and Distribute the Iranian Solidarity Declaration:                             //www.ipetitions.com/petition/iransecula

Ao, you got what you specified you did not want in your

blog. Safsate mostly from the usual suspects. The stats here remind me of an old jok:Doctor tells wife of a patient that he has to be operated on. Wife asks if there is any mortal risk. Doctor answered no more than 1%. The patient dies under surgeon's knife. His now widowed wife says doctor you said the risk is only 1%. Doctor said that was true. Perhaps I should have mentioned that was a very strong 1%

The point is not that nothing was done during IRR. Unless a nation is completely dead and barren, some things will be done (there are plenty of good and talented people who fell for the crooks and islamist and kept producing) but whatever was done was in spite of and under the nose of IRR. However, one has to search long and hard to find anything of value that is often the result of desperation, rather than any systematic R&D, planning, program management or foresight. In 1977 Iran and S. Korea were in similar stages of Industrial maturity with Korea arguably being more politically mature. Iran was arguably ahead of SK in Industrial development with Iran obviously being much better endowed in wealth and natural resources. Chile, was certainly not at level of Iran or SK and went through the Pinochet period. Either of those countries are doing far better than Iran in almost every measurable statistic and neither was doing as well as Iran before IRR. these are different countries and cultures so no comparison is perfect. But look at those countries and look at Iran. Compare global standing and reputation, technology, averages of all kinds...

Even if IRR had made some notable progress, they would pale in comparison with the human cost, suffering and ruin they have wrought on Iran. From a 'poison drinking' khomeini's 8 year war and close to a million dead, to 200,000 plus murders and executions to a ruling system that has no credibility except with those milking it.

In all fairness, expecting anything from a group of merceneries brought to power by an unholy alliance, supported and endorsed by the West, that buys arms from Israel while chanting death to it (sure you are Jewish YT :), would be unreasonable. Furthermore, it would be unreasonable to expect this mercenary regime to not use every divisive tool, resource and trick to maintain its criminal enterprise because just like the Capone gang it is shoot or be shot mentality with this gang.

Pahlavi's had plenty of flaws but at least they were Iranians for Iran and they have been gone for 31 years already. But you will never hear the excuse of Pahlavi, war, anti-imperialism, and allah go away because without those, there would be nothing left to explain the 'sacrifices' they put Iran through and the endless agony and misery. Without the facade and theatrics what remains is a bunch of coward criminals with big guns. Or criminal wannabee ajnabis like gomashte.

OKtaby

I believe at some point down below the blogger clarified

--or was it my imagination?-that it should be one good thing that wouldn't've happened anyway if there hadn't been a Rev/Devolution.

The discussion is good but very diffuse. I think it would be useful for someone to write a blog choosing one of the areas being mentioned, like women's employment, or education, or standard of living or whatever, and focus on that one.

Thank you Abarmard for the usual sane comment to the group, thank you Ben for the thought-provoking one to me, and thank you Cap'n for trying to play the part of Monkey in the Middle with good grace and cheer.